Kerry v Dublin - All-Ireland Semi-Final

[MeathExile]

I am really p*****d off with this whole ref thing. Last year and this year had to play Dublin with refs living/working in Dublin - it's a complete joke. Dublin got some very soft frees yesterday and we should have had some awarded to us, plus the phantom 45. Meanwhile, we have 30 lads busting a gut for 8 months to be treated like that - it's disgusting.

There should be a rule that refs should come from other provinces other than the teams competing. At present, we dont even have an 'other counties' rule - a complete and utter farce.... I for one will not be attending again if this goes on.

[bedlamite]

Reading the Posts here, most posters are very gracious in defeat, which is to be applauded. This mindset is fostered in Kerry, where anyone who knows anything about sport knows it has its inherent ups and downs, you'll always need some luck to win. Better to keep your sanity be continuing to foster this mentality I presume, and try and be 5 points better than your opposition so that the referee's performance won't come into it. At least your always looking at yourself to improve.

But the stark facts in this case are that the referees performance dictated the outcome. Sure Kerry made mistakes in their performance which if they were eliminated would have given the victory to Kerry, but the referee made mistakes, and most were to Kerry's cost. His mistakes were not evenly distributed. Enough in fact to take the game away from Kerry and hand it to Dublin.

Two great teams and the game of football deserve better.

[Clogher]

Aug 29, 2016 18:41:19 GMT MeathExile said:

I am really p*****d off with this whole ref thing. Last year and this year had to play Dublin with refs living/working in Dublin - it's a complete joke. Dublin got some very soft frees yesterday and we should have had some awarded to us, plus the phantom 45. Meanwhile, we have 30 lads busting a gut for 8 months to be treated like that - it's disgusting.

There should be a rule that refs should come from other provinces other than the teams competing. At present, we dont even have an 'other counties' rule - a complete and utter farce.... I for one will not be attending again if this goes on.

It's more than just living and working in Dublin though, accordingly to Twitter there is a direct link between Gough and the club of Kevin Mac

Whatever about actual objectivity, the optics are appalling and the GAA needs to address this aspect of ref choice

[ardfertnarrie]

Aug 29, 2016 18:59:21 GMT Clogher said:

Aug 29, 2016 18:41:19 GMT MeathExile said:

I am really p*****d off with this whole ref thing. Last year and this year had to play Dublin with refs living/working in Dublin - it's a complete joke. Dublin got some very soft frees yesterday and we should have had some awarded to us, plus the phantom 45. Meanwhile, we have 30 lads busting a gut for 8 months to be treated like that - it's disgusting.

There should be a rule that refs should come from other provinces other than the teams competing. At present, we dont even have an 'other counties' rule - a complete and utter farce.... I for one will not be attending again if this goes on.

It's more than just living and working in Dublin though, accordingly to Twitter there is a direct link between Gough and the club of Kevin Mac

Whatever about actual objectivity, the optics are appalling and the GAA needs to address this aspect of ref choice

That is infuriating. Imagine if it was the other way around. There would be an inquiry into it.

[thebluepanther]

I understand people being annoyed at the decision not to award a free to Crowley, but AoM done the very same thing to Philly. Dean Rock would easily have tapped over the resulting free from where the foul was. So for me those two decisions evened themselves out.
The other thing I don't think people grasp, do you really think a Meath man wants Dublin winning.

[seamo]

Aug 28, 2016 21:01:46 GMT jackiel said:

Fair play Panther, I spoke to one of the Dublin back room team afterwards and he said they'd been quite worried bout this one in the run up. Most of us travelled in hope rather than expectation, we have some fantastic players and plenty more to come through from recent Minor panels, we will be back.

Which one of the 55 was that? The fellla that supplies and washs pre-game applies for Bernard Brogan to enjoy!! 55 so they say on terrace talk, almost fell of my seat!

True it will be exciting to see some great minors hopefully make the transition to senior level.

[seamo]

Aug 29, 2016 3:50:54 GMT yourholiness said:

My mindset at 60 minutes had Dublin losing today and I have to say there would of been little shame in losing to that Kerry performance . As a county you are a class act lads . I commend you in victory and all I can say is I would have been equally quick to commend you in defeat. A wonderful Kerry display .

I would suggest that as a county we are now ok with 2nd best, even to the Dubs! It's far from my feelings, but it is the feeling portrayed amongst alot of the comments here which is disappointing. Equally disappointing is the line "he owes Kerry football nothing"as a means to deflect a critical analysis of individual performances, the same people who trot it out are those glamouring for retirements and younger players to be introduced; talk about hypocrisy!

[seamo]

Aug 29, 2016 19:15:06 GMT thebluepanther said:

I understand people being annoyed at the decision not to award a free to Crowley, but AoM done the very same thing to Philly. Dean Rock would easily have tapped over the resulting free from where the foul was. So for me those two decisions evened themselves out.
The other thing I don't think people grasp, do you really think a Meath man wants Dublin winning.

Have to jump to AOM's defence here, that was a clean hit and no finer choice of player to knock back on his backside than Philly!!! BUT...I myself wouldn't criticise the referee on the Crowley incident, I like others initially thought it was a fair hit, it happened so fast so I'm not criticising the referee for that one.

This was not the great game people are claiming it to be (but I guess standards and expectations have been lowered in the past few years)....it was however played at serious pace and with serious physicality, with that in mind I think the referee had a decent game, not perfect, but good overall given the circumstances.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2016 19:15:06 GMT thebluepanther said:

I understand people being annoyed at the decision not to award a free to Crowley, but AoM done the very same thing to Philly. Dean Rock would easily have tapped over the resulting free from where the foul was. So for me those two decisions evened themselves out.
The other thing I don't think people grasp, do you really think a Meath man wants Dublin winning.

I did not think aoms was as clear cut and I thought in a less scorable position but may be wrong on that.

Gough being from Meath is not the issue. It is working/living in Dublin in addition to being involved with a club in Dublin that looks bad. It is better all round if these type of scenarios are avoided.

[augustafield]

Some coincidence , Gough , a member of Kevin Macs club turns a blind eye to a blatant foul
perpetrated by his own club member , which without a doubt was the turning point of the game.
This is a crazy scenario and obviously absolutely unfair to Kerry and to Gough in putting him
in that situation. Do the competing counties have any say in the appointment of a Ref ?
Sorry for our boys who as always were gracious losers . Losing is painful but all the more so
if as a result of poor officiating.
Incidentally Panther the less said about McMahon , the better. Look at the tape of his carry on
last year and when you see him ask him what was he saying to Paul Geaney yesterday.
McManamos tackle on Crowley yesterday was cowardly and says much about him. And
unfortunately none of our team reacted . And that probably says a lot about them also.

[Clogher]

Aug 29, 2016 19:46:07 GMT augustafield said:

Some coincidence , Gough , a member of Kevin Macs club turns a blind eye to a blatant foul
perpetrated by his own club member , which without a doubt was the turning point of the game.

It doesn't say he is a member of that club but there is certainly a connection with it, possibly through his job.

Coincidences like this should be avoided by appropriate selection guidelines, it's unfair on everyone involved

[jackiel]

Aug 29, 2016 19:17:20 GMT seamo said:

Aug 28, 2016 21:01:46 GMT jackiel said:

Fair play Panther, I spoke to one of the Dublin back room team afterwards and he said they'd been quite worried bout this one in the run up. Most of us travelled in hope rather than expectation, we have some fantastic players and plenty more to come through from recent Minor panels, we will be back.

Which one of the 55 was that? The fellla that supplies and washs pre-game applies for Bernard Brogan to enjoy!! 55 so they say on terrace talk, almost fell of my seat!

True it will be exciting to see some great minors hopefully make the transition to senior level.

I reckon I have the benefit of a few years on you Seamo and also the fact that I have spent quite a bit of time in close quarters with the Dublin and Kerry teams in recent years.While Dublin may have a bigger backroom team than Kerry , 55 is an extreme and they don't carry all on match days.
I can tell you that the biggest team group I have experienced was a hurling panel(not Dublin, not Senior), with 18 over the allowed allocation in Croke Park.
Petty *ing doesn't get you anywhere and won't make you feel any better about yesterday's result.

[ddtinexile]

Let's call a spade a spade. We have been rode raped and pillaged by refs living working or been associated with Dublin Gaa .
My blood boiled when I saw Clohers post and Goughs association with Macs club.
He teaches in Templeogue, was introduced to refin in Dublin doing most of his refereening in Dromcondra..
If the Ref was from say Newcastlwest or Ballingarry in Limerick and working teaching refin in Tralee or Killarney imagine the hulabooloo it would cause in Dublin.

What is Sean Walshs role as chairman of the Refs committee ?
Looks like he has no say.
Can someone enlighten me as to how the refs are appointed and by whom.

We are Kerry so when beaten by fair or foul means we say nothin....we're great.
Time to change and let our county board speak up and call it like most people see it.
Has our county board ever said no , we won't agree to that.

I left my programme in Croke park yesterday.....cusack side.

[thebluepanther]

Aug 29, 2016 19:46:07 GMT augustafield said:

Some coincidence , Gough , a member of Kevin Macs club turns a blind eye to a blatant foul
perpetrated by his own club member , which without a doubt was the turning point of the game.
This is a crazy scenario and obviously absolutely unfair to Kerry and to Gough in putting him
in that situation. Do the competing counties have any say in the appointment of a Ref ?
Sorry for our boys who as always were gracious losers . Losing is painful but all the more so
if as a result of poor officiating.
Incidentally Panther the less said about McMahon , the better. Look at the tape of his carry on
last year and when you see him ask him what was he saying to Paul Geaney yesterday.
McManamos tackle on Crowley yesterday was cowardly and says much about him. And
unfortunately none of our team reacted . And that probably says a lot about them also.

Look believe what you want about Gough  , most Dublin s beside me weren't happy a Meath man was reffing the game.  but if your going to slate Philly, (which is fine) for mouthing at Geaney, watch Donaghy winding lads up , going off at half time patting Philly on the back of the neck and mouthing at John small ,  it takes two.  

[jackiel]

Aug 29, 2016 19:15:06 GMT thebluepanther said:

I understand people being annoyed at the decision not to award a free to Crowley, but AoM done the very same thing to Philly. Dean Rock would easily have tapped over the resulting free from where the foul was. So for me those two decisions evened themselves out.
The other thing I don't think people grasp, do you really think a Meath man wants Dublin winning.

Personally I had no idea that David Gough had such strong Dublin connections, my experience of him is as a ref in Meath ,his club in named as Slane on the programmes, but to be honest I know very little about club football in Meath.
When I was younger the ref would be from a non-participating province to ensure neutrality, I dont know when this changed but have found it strange in recent years ie 2015 that Coldrick(Meath) should be reffing Dublin.

[seamo]

Aug 29, 2016 20:01:57 GMT jackiel said:

Aug 29, 2016 19:17:20 GMT seamo said:

Which one of the 55 was that? The fellla that supplies and washs pre-game applies for Bernard Brogan to enjoy!! 55 so they say on terrace talk, almost fell of my seat!

True it will be exciting to see some great minors hopefully make the transition to senior level.

I reckon I have the benefit of a few years on you Seamo and also the fact that I have spent quite a bit of time in close quarters with the Dublin and Kerry teams in recent years.While Dublin may have a bigger backroom team than Kerry , 55 is an extreme and they don't carry all on match days.
I can tell you that the biggest team group I have experienced was a hurling panel(not Dublin, not Senior), with 18 over the allowed allocation in Croke Park.
Petty *ing doesn't get you anywhere and won't make you feel any better about yesterday's result.

You didn't actually get your panties in a twist over my comment did you? If so your a sensitive soul!!!

Why would satirically mentioning Dublin having 55 backroom staff make me feel better about yesterday? If you say they have less then that's fine, I made no issue about 55, I clearly from my post find that to be funny rather than controversial or consoling.

My team lost, so why are you the up-tight one sensitive to a bit of banter?

[thebluepanther]

Aug 29, 2016 19:35:43 GMT seamo said:

Aug 29, 2016 19:15:06 GMT thebluepanther said:

I understand people being annoyed at the decision not to award a free to Crowley, but AoM done the very same thing to Philly. Dean Rock would easily have tapped over the resulting free from where the foul was. So for me those two decisions evened themselves out.
The other thing I don't think people grasp, do you really think a Meath man wants Dublin winning.

Have to jump to AOM's defence here, that was a clean hit and no finer choice of player to knock back on his backside than Philly!!! BUT...I myself wouldn't criticise the referee on the Crowley incident, I like others initially thought it was a fair hit, it happened so fast so I'm not criticising the referee for that one.

This was not the great game people are claiming it to be (but I guess standards and expectations have been lowered in the past few years)....it was however played at serious pace and with serious physicality, with that in mind I think the referee had a decent game, not perfect, but good overall given the circumstances.

Fair post,  but look at where AoM caught Philly , he had no eye on the ball, only intention was the Man, he caught Philly across the chest, just like Crowley it was a free all day long.
It's wasn't a great game of skill, but we are starved of games like this, where there is no hidden agendas and two teams just go for it. Ref let a lot go and the game was the better for it.  
It was pure adrenaline for 75mins . 

[ddtinexile]

AOM and P Mc incident cannot be compared to Crowley and McMans.
AOM and P mac going for the ball as it was heading towards the side line.
Both looked at each other and went for each other.
Aidan puts him on his ass... Shoulder to shoulder as it should be. Survival of the strongest.
Crowleys was a shoulder into the head and stomach from McMan.
No comparison .

[Sons of Pitches]

The ref didn't cost us that game.

Dublin are currently the better side.

The ease at which they firstly went into a 4 point lead then reeled us in 10 minutes into the second half goes to show they are the better side.

Regardless if Crowley got a free I feel we'd have lost.

If's but's and maybe's will wreck your head, so let it lie.

[listowelemerrs]

Bluepanther. I doubt rock would have scored that where mahony floored mcmahon. Dissapointed in how we lost our shape with 5 mins to go and we up 2 points. No one to kick ball to or hold it up above especially with geaney and donaghy gone. Watching game back tonight I feel James o donoghue made Cian o sullivan uncomfortable in the centre bought him out and created space for our runners to go in through the middle (albeit not much runners) I would like to see JOD at CF in future for Kerry. It's key position and since Declan retired we haven't really replaced that key position. We didn't really play with a CF yesterday either especially in first half.

[thebluepanther]

Aug 29, 2016 20:16:19 GMT ddtinexile said:

AOM and P Mc incident cannot be compared to Crowley and McMans.
AOM and P mac going for the ball as it was heading towards the side line.
Both looked at each other and went for each other.
Aidan puts him on his ass... Shoulder to shoulder as it should be. Survival of the strongest.
Crowleys was a shoulder into the head and stomach from McMan.
No comparison .

Gas when Aidan does it ,   it's all manly .
There was no shoulder to shoulder ,  he had no eye on the ball he caught Philly across the chest , I'd suggest you watch the footage again. 
Don't expect any sympathy for Philly and at the time I thought it was just two lads coming together,  but watching it again AoM has his mind up he is taking Philly out. I've no problem with it . 
Buts it's getting conviently forgotten in the race to hang Gough. 

[jackiel]

Aug 29, 2016 20:10:11 GMT seamo said:

Aug 29, 2016 20:01:57 GMT jackiel said:

I reckon I have the benefit of a few years on you Seamo and also the fact that I have spent quite a bit of time in close quarters with the Dublin and Kerry teams in recent years.While Dublin may have a bigger backroom team than Kerry , 55 is an extreme and they don't carry all on match days.
I can tell you that the biggest team group I have experienced was a hurling panel(not Dublin, not Senior), with 18 over the allowed allocation in Croke Park.
Petty *ing doesn't get you anywhere and won't make you feel any better about yesterday's result.

You didn't actually get your panties in a twist over my comment did you? If so your a sensitive soul!!!

Why would satirically mentioning Dublin having 55 backroom staff make me feel better about yesterday? If you say they have less then that's fine, I made no issue about 55, I clearly from my post find that to be funny rather than controversial or consoling.

My team lost, so why are you the up-tight one sensitive to a bit of banter?

You're obviously missing something Seamo, they're not just your team,they're my team too. I can assure you my underwear is in good order, not a twist in sight but thanks for your concern.I only say it as I see it.

[kot]

Still struggling to come to terms with this one. Don't know whether knowing you are getting beaten with 10 mins to go like the league final is easier to digest than coming so close but coming up short.

Before I go into anything or own team, I know it has been said at length already but this is an absolutely superb Dublin team. If I was a neutral on Sunday then witnessing some of their scores Sunday would have been a joy to behold. As it was, being a Kerry man every point was like a dagger to the heart. As much as they are fit, powerful & fast they quality of their footballers are up there with the best I have ever seen.

For us, to score 2-14 in an All Ireland Semi but still come up short despite not conceding any goals is gut wrenching. We were the ones making sloppy mistakes when the chips were down while Dublin were calmness personified when pressure was on. The shoe was very much on the other foot a few short years ago when you could bank on the likes of Dublin / Cork wobbling when Kerry got a foothold in games.

It looked to me like Kelly was trying to get the game restarted quickly than we have done in the past but there just wasn't the options. Too often then when he went long we were second to the breaking ball! This put us under pressure consistently at our own restarts and I think was the winning of the game. People talk about the Dublin backs being formidable but they didn't have a good day, we had far less of the ball in their end yet took 2-14. If we could won more primary possession.

The ref made some shocking calls, the 45s fiasco, the late frees for non existent offences against Murphy & Young and the aformentioned assault on Crowley but we have to accept that Dublin were and are better than us currently.

In 3 of our 4 reversals against them we have held the advantage going past the hour mark and didn't close out the game. Fitness in my mind doesn't come down to it, there was a slight bit of composure lacking - a sub conscious fear when we switched off in the last 10 or so mins in 2011 after going 4 up and were caught by Dublin in a way we werent caught before. In 2013 we had them on the ropes at half time and again led going into the latter stages but made bad calls on the ball, unforced errors and poor shot selection. We had it again Sunday with Moran/Sheehan/Gooch all kicking away wildly or short. Then we had errors by JOD, O'Brien & Moran again in possession uncharacteristically giving it away or running into trouble.
This is in game management in the players own heads that they need to get right and there is no point in Eamonn Fitz being made a scapegoat. For me, he has to stay on. Their is great talent coming through and if Jack is the alternative then there is no comparison when it comes to the tactics side of the game. What Eamonn has managed to get out of the current group, finding more for an extra 3 yrs out of the old guard who were thought gone in 2013, bringing the likes of Geaney / O'Donoghue / Crowley / Murphy / Moran but to name a few onto a new level. He deserves faith in the same way Micko deserved faith after a couple of reversals against Dublin in the 70s. Also he has worked with a lot of the underage guys at schools so will be able to get the most out of them again. Personally, I would like him to stay on for the foreseeable future. Nobody else would have been able to get this level of consistent performance out this Kerry team in recent times, the only day you could say we werent correctly in order was the final last yr.

Finally, at the game with my Fiancé I was subjected to the good and bad of "Da Boys in Blue", 2 old lads who made it their business to turn around and roar into our faces at full time and give the double fisted salute... if I wasn't with female company I would have decked him. Absolute vile cretin. Then another old lad beside us who was with his missus and saw what your man was at and said "Pay no attention to that sh!te", shook my hand and said great game.

[Derek]

Aug 29, 2016 20:25:34 GMT thebluepanther said:

Aug 29, 2016 20:16:19 GMT ddtinexile said:

AOM and P Mc incident cannot be compared to Crowley and McMans.
AOM and P mac going for the ball as it was heading towards the side line.
Both looked at each other and went for each other.
Aidan puts him on his ass... Shoulder to shoulder as it should be. Survival of the strongest.
Crowleys was a shoulder into the head and stomach from McMan.
No comparison .

Gas when Aidan does it ,   it's all manly .
There was no shoulder to shoulder ,  he had no eye on the ball he caught Philly across the chest , I'd suggest you watch the footage again. 
Don't expect any sympathy for Philly and at the time I thought it was just two lads coming together,  but watching it again AoM has his mind up he is taking Philly out. I've no problem with it . 
Buts it's getting conviently forgotten in the race to hang Gough. 

AOM incident was 100% the same as Peter Crowley's - it was in my eyes a red card as he took McMahon out and had no eye on the ball whatsoever. There is a video on twitter shared by joe.ie which clearly shows this.

However I think the free would have been from a fairly impossible angle for Dean Rock as a right footed kicker to take - Peter Crowleys if given is a very score able free IMO.

[buck02]

It'll probably be another 3 or 4 weeks before I can get my head around that defeat so I cant imagine how long it'll take those involved to grasp it. For a team we were told were in transition 4 years ago, Kerry have been involved in absolute belters in 2013, 2014 and 2016. Yes, we lost two of those games and that is galling but unlike other counties when they are in transition, we still have to ability to eat at the top table. Our time will come again and after enduring the likes of Sunday they will seem all the sweeter when they come around.

[kerrygold]

Some interesting stuff in this article by John Fogarty.

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/football-needs-tmos-and-quickly-418416.html

[kerrygold]

Aug 30, 2016 10:46:40 GMT Derek said:

Aug 29, 2016 20:25:34 GMT thebluepanther said:

Gas when Aidan does it ,   it's all manly .
There was no shoulder to shoulder ,  he had no eye on the ball he caught Philly across the chest , I'd suggest you watch the footage again. 
Don't expect any sympathy for Philly and at the time I thought it was just two lads coming together,  but watching it again AoM has his mind up he is taking Philly out. I've no problem with it . 
Buts it's getting conviently forgotten in the race to hang Gough. 

AOM incident was 100% the same as Peter Crowley's - it was in my eyes a red card as he took McMahon out and had no eye on the ball whatsoever. There is a video on twitter shared by joe.ie which clearly shows this.

However I think the free would have been from a fairly impossible angle for Dean Rock as a right footed kicker to take - Peter Crowleys if given is a very score able free IMO.

AOM and McMahon has full view of each other while the ball waited. Crowley was taken out from the blind side. At absolute most the first was a yellow card, the second borderline red.

If these two tackles were let go in the spirit of the unfolding game then it was double standards from the ref to penalise Paul Murphy for accidental contact with the ball on the ground with his arm as he full bloodily contested a breaking ball.

[jackiel]

I wrote this back in April in the run up to the league final, mental toughness does play a part and it would appear we just haven't got enough of it.

"I've said it before but I feel it's even more true now that though Dublin are strong & have many great players, if teams believe they could beat them rather than the hype it is possible. There's a myth out there that they're unbeatable, they're not , they just have the belief in themselves and don't give up.
Instead of talking about how to play Dublin's game, we should be concentrating on playing how we want,bring the game to them. We have a very strong panel this year, we're improving all the time. It's great to be back in a Final even if it is "only the League", hopefully we'll have big support on the 24th. Ciarraí abú"

Read more: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/6554/kerry-dublin-final-24th-april#ixzz4IoT3o0bw

[Jigz84]

Special word on Anthony Maher. For him to have played so little football this year and put in the performance he did last Sunday was immense.

[kerrygold]

Aug 30, 2016 11:19:36 GMT Jigz84 said:

Special word on Anthony Maher. For him to have played so little football this year and put in the performance he did last Sunday was immense.

Fully agree, and when he went off the whole thing collapsed for Kerry. Moran is still nowhere near the 2014 version yet. Kerry's midfield for the next 4-5 years will revolve around these two combined with Barry O'Sullivan and Mark O'Connor.

Not having adequate replacement legs in the middle third has cost us heavily, both in 2011 and last Sunday.