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Post by southward on Jul 23, 2016 18:10:39 GMT
Seeing as this year's AI Q/Fs will feature...
3 & possibly 4 teams from Munster (out of 6)
Possibly 2 but probably 1 from Leinster (out of 12)
1 and possibly 2 from Ulster (out of 9)
1 and probably 2 from Connaught (out of 6 inc NY)....
Any chance ye could once and for all just stfu about the easy Munster Championship, glorious Ulster, how Kerry have it so handy every year etc.?
No? - thought not
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 23, 2016 18:21:36 GMT
Today's results are starting to make Breheny look foolish............................
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 23, 2016 18:27:21 GMT
The only *s I want to abuse on Twitter aren't on it.
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inchperfect
Senior Member
No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Jul 23, 2016 19:50:51 GMT
The only *s I want to abuse on Twitter aren't on it. Brolly's getting a lot of stick off Tipp fans after having a fit of laughing after going back on air for half time analysis of the Munster Final. He's adamant it was a private joke. |
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 23, 2016 20:27:51 GMT
Possibly four Munster teams in the quarters??? Surely something must be done about this unfair and unbalanced qualifier system. :-)
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 23, 2016 20:40:42 GMT
Breheny will be scraping the eggs off his chin with a shovel if Tipp beat Galway in Croker.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 23, 2016 21:45:46 GMT
Possibly four Munster teams in the quarters??? Surely something must be done about this unfair and unbalanced qualifier system. :-) Cork will * it up. *s. |
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 23, 2016 23:17:37 GMT
Possibly four Munster teams in the quarters??? Surely something must be done about this unfair and unbalanced qualifier system. :-) Cork will * it up. *s. I see some uncredited journo in the Indo website has just picked up my point missing out on the sarcasm! What a load of you know what. |
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Post by Dermot on Jul 24, 2016 7:05:35 GMT
Possibly four Munster teams in the quarters??? Surely something must be done about this unfair and unbalanced qualifier system. :-) Cork will * it up. *s. No, Donegal will **** it up 😉 Lol |
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Post by tommynk on Jul 24, 2016 8:02:00 GMT
It's easy say that the system is flawed when results go one way or the other.
If division 1 Roscommon can't win their qualifier how can the system account for that.
The idea was right to try and split the qualifiers to try and reduce delays to fixtures.
There will always be some issues as long as the provincial champs remain. Long waits between games , short turn around.
The long and short of it is there aren't enough tier one teams ( or whatever you want to call them) the have big epic clashes games all summer.
Well done Clare and Tip. They are there on merit. Both having beaten divion 1 teams and playing a bit of football in the process.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 24, 2016 8:46:09 GMT
Whatever about the ifs and buts I find this A and B qualifier system to be completely ridiculous. Why not an open draw against provincial winners. Our championship year could consist of 2 games against Clare, a game against Tipperary and a game against the Dubs. There is something completely unfulfilling about that prospect. We will have to wait until the last Sunday in August for a game to whet the appetite. This system doesn't do anything to make games more appealing. The echoes will ring around a near empty Croke park next Sunday, should the games be played there. Tipp have a core following of about 500, Clare won't travel in great numbers, Galway are notoriously poor travellers and I don't think Kerry fans will be racing for Croke park to see a reprise of a game already played. Very disappointing.
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Post by baurtregaum on Jul 24, 2016 9:32:34 GMT
It's easy say that the system is flawed when results go one way or the other. If division 1 Roscommon can't win their qualifier how can the system account for that. The idea was right to try and split the qualifiers to try and reduce delays to fixtures. There will always be some issues as long as the provincial champs remain. Long waits between games , short turn around. The long and short of it is there aren't enough tier one teams ( or whatever you want to call them) the have big epic clashes games all summer. Well done Clare and Tip. They are there on merit. Both having beaten divion 1 teams and playing a bit of football in the process. 100% I think the achievement of Tip and Clare is being overlooked a little, in favour of articles on how soft we have it. Had the Rossies and Derry come through yesterday we might be facing a div 1 side (that we destroyed in the league semi) or an Ulster side. This would put a different complexion on things. I'm sure both the Kerry and Clare players would ideally want a different challenge but this is how it has worked out. |
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 24, 2016 9:50:59 GMT
Peddlers of the "flawed Championship system" argument are slow enough coming up with a workable alternative but here's one from someone who thinks the system is fine as it is:
Uncouple the Championship from the Provincials making then all stand alone competitions. The Championship can then be a 32 place knockout competition with no back door. Any additional teams (currently New York) could play preliminaries. New York and London could then decide whether to stay in Connaught or just focus on the Championship. Ideally the draw would be seeded but an open draw would also be an option which itself would produce interesting match ups and no doubt unexpected winners. At least then no one could complain about the likes of Dublin, Kerry and Mayo getting a soft passage to the quarters and acres of forests would be saved.
It will never happen!
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Post by tommynk on Jul 24, 2016 10:23:20 GMT
Even with a open draw against the provincial winners you would still have 2 teams with weaker opposition.with a perfect draw who would make up the 8 teams for the 4 match that people seem to think should happen
Who we meet this year is a different argument. Without being derogatory to Clare it would be better for us to play Mayo or Donegal. I think the 2 games the Dubs played against Mayo improved them immensely to our detriment.
Without checking results haven't to provincial finalists all made the quarters for the last few years?!
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Post by southward on Jul 24, 2016 10:46:23 GMT
I see some uncredited journo in the Indo website has just picked up my point missing out on the sarcasm! What a load of you know what. Tipperary beat Derry yesterday. Clare hammered Roscommon. It needs a twisted logic then to argue that Kerry have it easy because they play Clare and Tipp rather than Roscommon or Derry. But sure we won't let facts stand in the way of the popular narrative. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 24, 2016 10:59:14 GMT
Clare could give Kerry their best game in the quarters in years.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 24, 2016 11:07:45 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1.
Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting.
Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this!
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Post by tommynk on Jul 24, 2016 11:23:27 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1. Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting. Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this! It would be interesting all right. I believe the players themselves favour a system with a back door though. |
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Post by southward on Jul 24, 2016 11:42:46 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1. Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting. Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this!Carlow? Ah now, you're pushing it a bit there. |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 24, 2016 13:15:37 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1. Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting. Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this!Carlow? Ah now, you're pushing it a bit there. Well, look at Tipp and Clare. You wouldn't have thought their recent results were possible a few years ago. But a good run to a semi final for the likes of Carlow, would do wonders for football in the county. It's possible in an open draw format, but not in the current format. |
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Post by southward on Jul 24, 2016 14:37:14 GMT
Carlow? Ah now, you're pushing it a bit there. Well, look at Tipp and Clare. You wouldn't have thought their recent results were possible a few years ago. But a good run to a semi final for the likes of Carlow, would do wonders for football in the county. It's possible in an open draw format, but not in the current format. True, but Tipp, Clare etc have a certain GAA pedigree and tradition at least. Tipp have a few AIs, albeit in the dim and distant, and have significant underage success more recently. Clare have been there before. Louth, Wexford, Cavan and Kildare were all powers at one point. Offaly, Wicklow, Antrim, Laois and even Waterford have appeared on AI final day. Fermanagh have featured in the final stages, so have Leitrim Carlow though, I just don't see the interest there that could ever inspire them to get that far. They did have a good club side (Éire Óg) some years back that got to Croke Park a few times, though I think there may have been a few outsiders who were attending Carlow IT. As for going that far in senior inter-county though, no disrespect to them but there'd have to be 30 teams in the other half of the draw first. |
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Post by wayupnorth on Jul 24, 2016 15:11:51 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1. Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting. Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this! For the four teams coming through the qualifiers luck has very little to do with it. You don't need to scrap the Provincials - just uncouple them from the Championship. |
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 24, 2016 16:41:25 GMT
After the provincial c'ship, it's all luck as to who's left at the QF stage. Some years there's been 4 or 5 Ulster teams from 8. Other years just 1. Personally I would have an open draw, scrap the provincials. If that means Kerry v Dublin and Tyrone v Mayo in the first round, so be it. There will always be mismatches no matter the format, but at least then it might actually be interesting. Imagine if the big guns were all in one half of the draw, knocking each other out. The likes of Carlow, Louth, Fermanagh, Clare etc could actually look and think, we could win this! For the four teams coming through the qualifiers luck has very little to do with it. You don't need to scrap the Provincials - just uncouple them from the Championship. The luck of the draw has. Maybe not, but a provincial c'ship win will mean nothing if held as a standalone competition. |
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dart
Senior Member
Posts: 277
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Post by dart on Jul 24, 2016 16:50:31 GMT
The provincial champions are the only teams without a back door (and New York) which is blatantly unfair.
A seeded open draw with seeds decided by provincial championships and the league is a real winner in my view.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Jul 24, 2016 17:19:22 GMT
The provincial champions are the only teams without a back door (and New York) which is blatantly unfair. A seeded open draw with seeds decided by provincial championships and the league is a real winner in my view. But determining seeding by provincial c'ships is unfair too. Connacht and Munster have less teams, so Ulster and Leinster are at a disadvantage before a ball is even kicked. Tyrone and Donegal could be drawn in the preliminary round in Ulster. Say Tyrone lose, they will theoretically be ranked lower than say, Waterford, who may have beaten Limerick to reach a Munster semi. Are Waterford a better side than Tyrone? You could do something regarding seeding and the leagues, but for an open draw c'ship, I'd prefer to see all teams given the same chance of success. |
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Post by conallach on Jul 24, 2016 18:23:26 GMT
Christ lads, you'd have to go back months and months, almost a whole 12 of them, to try and find the last time Ulster had four teams in the Quarter Finals, and yous haven't the four yet!  More broadly, it's been very interesting to watch the power shift at this time of year away from what I'll call the second tier of teams of late. Some of this is probably down to the levels of engagement of the panels, as certain counties seem to just drift along endlessly, while others, though they may weakened by absences, have really shown incredibly honesty of effort on and off the field and grabbed the chance to make something of their summer. I remember making this point last year about Fermanagh - that you can really tell what it means to them to be up in Croke Park, ripping into the Dubs with the eyes of the island on them. Their fans loved it. I remember thinking that I wasn't sure if Derry or Down fans would see it the same way. The same games played out by players in different jersies might just have been seen by them as a day to trudge to Dublin and try and get through an inevitable defeat as quickly as possible. There's joy in exceeding expectations, and lying dormant in the second tier is a forgotten strand of joylessness. I don't think that the above is inherently negative, or even unnatural given the levels of commitment required now. Personally, I'd rather watch the Clares, Tipps and Fermanaghs make-and-take their time on the big stage anyway. There's something really particularly enjoyable about this Clare team. It looks as if they have a complete belief that if they do the right things, things will work out for them, and they have some cracking players. I can't imagine a GAA person that doesn't love seeing Brennan get his due rewards on the big stage. |
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2016 18:37:29 GMT
Jesus. Its an awful pity that it is Kerry that Clare are meeting again. West Clare is probbaly by favourite place outside of Kerry.
I suppose their pick would be the equivilant of Feale Rangers and Shannon Rangers combined.
They are all pulling together behind a manager that anyone would love to play for.
Feck it anyway... i would love to be able to shout for Clare in Croke Park but .......
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 24, 2016 19:08:03 GMT
The provincial champions are the only teams without a back door (and New York) which is blatantly unfair. A seeded open draw with seeds decided by provincial championships and the league is a real winner in my view. But determining seeding by provincial c'ships is unfair too. Connacht and Munster have less teams, so Ulster and Leinster are at a disadvantage before a ball is even kicked. Tyrone and Donegal could be drawn in the preliminary round in Ulster. Say Tyrone lose, they will theoretically be ranked lower than say, Waterford, who may have beaten Limerick to reach a Munster semi. Are Waterford a better side than Tyrone? You could do something regarding seeding and the leagues, but for an open draw c'ship, I'd prefer to see all teams given the same chance of success. The tweak I would suggest is to have a number of All Ireland competitions for teams knocked out at the various levels. That would dramatically increase the number of competitive games while maintaining the normally epic provincial finals. It would also allow every team the break-through chance of going all the ways in a given year. Could it also open the door for counties to field B teams? While it could be facilitated within the backdoor system, it could also eliminate the need for it, thereby adding that knock-out edge you get in a proper championship. Much as I hate to say it but the backdoor insulates top tier teams having an off-day in a system that is already stacked heavily against weaker counties. Call them Dermot Earley Cups, etc, maybe 4 in total including Sam. You would have Leitrims playing Carlows and Longfords playing say Westmeaths, and it would also raise the standard gradually while also enabling counties to play well into the perfect long Summer days. And it would reduce Diublin v Longford type senarios. No system will be perfect but I think such a set up would be better in most respects and any teething issues ironed out. |
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inchperfect
Senior Member
No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Jul 24, 2016 19:19:16 GMT
Christ lads, you'd have to go back months and months, almost a whole 12 of them, to try and find the last time Ulster had four teams in the Quarter Finals, and yous haven't the four yet! 3 out of 6 is better than 4 out of 9! |
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 24, 2016 19:38:25 GMT
Forget it lads, there'll be no change to the status quo in the GAA world. The will isn't there for seismic change to the provincial and political structures within the GAA . Only last week in the media our President came out all told all is well with line dancing hand pass game and the provincial championship structure. "Why kick the ball, in football, when we don't know where the football will go" Lord save us. The Prawn is King, long live the Prawn. The Prawn nourishes the status quo.
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