Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 2, 2016 8:37:19 GMT
A professional job done by Kerry on Sunday. Everything has been geared towards August 28th so I'll reserve any criticism or praise until then.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 2, 2016 8:40:48 GMT
Atmosphere in Croker was fairly dead on Sunday and my only entertainment came from the Banner foghorn that was seated behind me - he sounded like one of D'unbelieveables on steroids and spent the entire match refereeing with his heart and decrying every free awarded against his team and going demented for every Kerry indiscretion that went unpunished. Even his more level headed comrades who tried to explain the ref needs to give frees against Clare from time to time had no impact on his vision of the game and at the conclusion his comment that the small counties never get the break from referees was his parting comment. Game itself was a "dammed if you do and dammed if you don't" affair for Kerry with little really learnt and the consensus being please God EF has something up his sleeve and will unleash his masterplan for the SF should Dublin do whats expected and sweep Donegal aside. The whole summer has been building towards that for Kerry and ticket demand will be like an AI final.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 8:45:39 GMT
Rashers ...you have us all a lift there a few months ago when you confidently told us that Tommy Walsh would be back for the semi final... How is he going in training...Will he start the next day?
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 2, 2016 8:52:46 GMT
Rashers ...you have us all a lift there a few months ago when you confidently told us that Tommy Walsh would be back for the semi final... How is he going in training...Will he start the next day? Rashers probably expects Tommy to emulate his fellow Tralee man John Joe Sheehy from the 1920's Just after the Civil War, when Sheehy was still on the run, he managed to play football for Kerry. Kerry captain Con Brosnan, though a member of the Free State army, would guarantee his safe passage. And so Sheehy would pay into Munster and All Ireland finals, slip off his street clothes, play, and then at the final whistle, disappear back into the crowd.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Aug 2, 2016 11:24:59 GMT
After watching the game twice its as simple as this, we arent within 10 points of the Dubs on a bad day if we play the same way as we have been in the past few games. Dublin or Donegal will be up for a game against Kerry where as they dont get into the same mode for games against the Westmeaths of this world - its a bit like Cork playing Kerry as opposed to Waterford ( I cant say Tipp). We have to move Star from midfield, hes been a great servant but he doesent have the pace to start out there, maybe bring him in after 50 mins when fellows are getting tired but dont start him as the game will be gone before they take him off. Its either Maher or Sheehan with Moran to start for me - its just a pity that Mark O Connor / Barry O Sullivan are a bit young (is Mark injured as he wansnt listed on the subs).We have to make a place somewhere for Sheehan, he is invaluable from frees & 45's & we will need to be converting everything to have a chance against a better team. Tadgh Morley doesent do it for me either - I think either Flynn or Kilkenny would have a field day on him unless we cut off some of the supply from the middle - its time to get Murphy back there, I cant understand what hes doing up in the forward line when we seem to have a multitude of natural forwards. I dont see the reasoning in bringing on Marc & Aidan the last day - surely it was the day to experiment with the future. I know we brought on Tony Brosnan but should we have blooded Barry as well in a game that was over with 25 mins to go plus he would have been pitted against one of the best midfielders in the country in the year to date?
My team for the semis would be;
Kelly Enright Griffin Young O Beaglaoich Crowley Murphy Maher Moran Walsh Sheehan O'Brien O Donoghue Geaney O Sullivan
Lets just hope that Donegal do us a favour next weekend - IMO the Dubs have gone back a bit from last year but unfortunately so have we.
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Post by glengael on Aug 2, 2016 12:18:14 GMT
Fitz I understand what you are saying about needing a lot of practice to be immaculate at free taking but thats not the issue here- the issue was that we didnt seem to have any kind of practiced free taking or 45s strategy so we ended up with woeful, head high attempts from Dave or poor, unpracticed attempts at short ones. It just seemed like we hadnt planned for frees or 45s and it just looked really sloppy- you wouldnt accept that at club level. Agree 100%. I think I've said that before. We looked like we haven't even got a plan for the forseeable things such as frees and 45s in Sheehan's absence. If it looks to clear to me above in the stand that we don't have a plan for those forseeable things, then how much clearer does it need to be to a shrewd opposition manager ? He can instruct his backs to only cough up long range frees if at all possible that's one less thing for him to worry about. If we can't get those basics right then I begin to wonder do we have a plan that everyone on the team knows about for unforseeable things that might get thrown at us, such as opposition players in last minute switches, sweeper/no sweeper , 4th midfielder etc, etc. As a constituent part of a bigger picture, that whole fiasco doesn't inspire confidence.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 12:27:23 GMT
I don't know, going in to face the Dubs looking like a fiasco isn't a bad place to be.......................
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 2, 2016 13:17:09 GMT
Fitz I understand what you are saying about needing a lot of practice to be immaculate at free taking but thats not the issue here- the issue was that we didnt seem to have any kind of practiced free taking or 45s strategy so we ended up with woeful, head high attempts from Dave or poor, unpracticed attempts at short ones. It just seemed like we hadnt planned for frees or 45s and it just looked really sloppy- you wouldnt accept that at club level. Agree 100%. I think I've said that before. We looked like we haven't even got a plan for the forseeable things such as frees and 45s in Sheehan's absence. If it looks to clear to me above in the stand that we don't have a plan for those forseeable things, then how much clearer does it need to be to a shrewd opposition manager ? He can instruct his backs to only cough up long range frees if at all possible that's one less thing for him to worry about. If we can't get those basics right then I begin to wonder do we have a plan that everyone on the team knows about for unforseeable things that might get thrown at us, such as opposition players in last minute switches, sweeper/no sweeper , 4th midfielder etc, etc. As a constituent part of a bigger picture, that whole fiasco doesn't inspire confidence. Jack Savage was brought into the panel from the under 21s and he is quite a good free taker- I'd imagine he is in line to succeed Sheehan when he goes- unfortunately he got injured in training so couldnt be involved
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Aug 2, 2016 13:35:53 GMT
I would have thought that either Brian Kelly or Brendan Kealy, whichever one plays, would have been tried at taking the 45's or long range frees this stage.
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cruc8
Full Member
Posts: 94
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Post by cruc8 on Aug 2, 2016 14:04:07 GMT
I would have thought that either Brian Kelly or Brendan Kealy, whichever one plays, would have been tried at taking the 45's or long range frees this stage. After reflection and a recording of the match. Donaghy had a good 40 minutes. He primary role was to reduce Gary Brennan's role as main influencer and cover the zone defence. When Donahgy left the field GB got through our defensive wall twice and Clare had at least 3 goal chances. David Moran after 10 minutes played well and delivered some very good passes to our inside forward line.. We will need AOM and Marc for the last 20 minutes against Dubs or Donegal as it will be very tight .
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Post by glengael on Aug 2, 2016 14:58:51 GMT
I don't know, going in to face the Dubs looking like a fiasco isn't a bad place to be....................... The problem is Kerrygold, it doesn't just 'appear' like a fiasco. We seem to learn very little from games and repeat the mistakes of the past over and over. The free situation is symptomatic of this. I have seen nothing to give me confidence that it's all a some kind of clever charade and there is indeed a 'great plan' ready to be sprung on Aug 28th. i'd be delighted if i was proved wrong.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 16:35:49 GMT
I don't know, going in to face the Dubs looking like a fiasco isn't a bad place to be....................... The problem is Kerrygold, it doesn't just 'appear' like a fiasco. We seem to learn very little from games and repeat the mistakes of the past over and over. The free situation is symptomatic of this. I have seen nothing to give me confidence that it's all a some kind of clever charade and there is indeed a 'great plan' ready to be sprung on Aug 28th. i'd be delighted if i was proved wrong. I would have thought glengael that all great clever charades and great plans are usually unleased with an element of surprise?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 17:02:03 GMT
Agree 100%. I think I've said that before. We looked like we haven't even got a plan for the forseeable things such as frees and 45s in Sheehan's absence. If it looks to clear to me above in the stand that we don't have a plan for those forseeable things, then how much clearer does it need to be to a shrewd opposition manager ? He can instruct his backs to only cough up long range frees if at all possible that's one less thing for him to worry about. If we can't get those basics right then I begin to wonder do we have a plan that everyone on the team knows about for unforseeable things that might get thrown at us, such as opposition players in last minute switches, sweeper/no sweeper , 4th midfielder etc, etc. As a constituent part of a bigger picture, that whole fiasco doesn't inspire confidence. Jack Savage was brought into the panel from the under 21s and he is quite a good free taker- I'd imagine he is in line to succeed Sheehan when he goes- unfortunately he got injured in training so couldnt be involved will he be alright for the next day
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 17:07:26 GMT
I don't know, going in to face the Dubs looking like a fiasco isn't a bad place to be....................... The problem is Kerrygold, it doesn't just 'appear' like a fiasco. We seem to learn very little from games and repeat the mistakes of the past over and over. The free situation is symptomatic of this. I have seen nothing to give me confidence that it's all a some kind of clever charade and there is indeed a 'great plan' ready to be sprung on Aug 28th. i'd be delighted if i was proved wrong.
Trying to talk up Kerrys chances gives some idea of the dilemma Comical Ali was in. But hope springs eternal in the human breast.
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Post by Dingo86 on Aug 2, 2016 17:25:13 GMT
Has Tony Brosnan any league appearances?
Are there any other examples of players with championship but no league appearances?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 2, 2016 18:08:36 GMT
Jack Savage was brought into the panel from the under 21s and he is quite a good free taker- I'd imagine he is in line to succeed Sheehan when he goes- unfortunately he got injured in training so couldnt be involved will he be alright for the next day As far as I know- he won't! I'd imagine it will be the league before we see him at this stage
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Post by augustafield on Aug 2, 2016 18:17:56 GMT
Ok we are where we are be it the Dubs or Donegal. We did what we had to do to get this far. Rubbish was the immediate reaction after Sunday but as Kerrygold said " we were never going to get a performance against Clare ". How could EF convince his charges that Clare were a real danger and a serious threat to us ? Our level of certainty that we'd win had to seep into the heads and minds of the players hence a slipshod performance. And we were match rusty to boot. Our last serious game was the League final ! So that explains the poor performance. But problems still exist. Well and all as Star played and Moran ( frees aside) our midfield is too ponderous and clumsy and whatever about dealing with the Donegal midfield the Dubs would have a field day. Or as that GAA pundit supreme and sportsman par excellence Tom Carr says " Kerry won't get within 10 points of Dublin "
So an altered midfield , certainly against the Dubs is required. Mark Griffin was a revelation on Sunday and his forays upfield might suggest he had a licence to roam and could that be a straw in the wind ? Put him and Maher midfield and there is your pace. Meath Exile already in another Post alluded to this placing of Griffin and it makes admirable sense. He has never looked 100 % comfortable at full back but has a great engine and played with great abandon and confidence on Sunday. Shane Enright for full back and Murphy back to the half back line. but beyond that I won't go till we know who we'll meet after the weekend.
A lack of a reasonable place kicker last Sunday does not inspire confidence in our team on the line and their visible and obvious disagreement at last years All Ireland final hopefully is a thing of the past. As suggested here a short quick free might be better employed but was this even considered ? Or bringing Kelly up to take those frees. Saturday will be of great interest to us all and will keep us going until at least the. 28th.
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 2, 2016 19:30:03 GMT
The preparation at the moment is key and given that training is being held behind closed doors then we do not know what type of training is going on; to me , the Clare performance suggested a lot of " heavy lifting" was being done in past few weeks with little emphasis on speed work- evidenced by the wayward kicking in the first 20 mins by Paul Murphy, Donncha & Paul Geaney- if that was not the case, then we will be properly stuffed on the 28th; however, I would expect to see us far sharper than we have been up to now and would expect a bold showing be it Donegal or the Dubs. we all agree that we need more pace in the middle third but if we could upset Cluxton sufficiently it could even up matters a lot; likewise we need to sort out our own fallibility between the posts or we could be embarrassed- I think Kealy has to start as Kelly is no better- either that or chuck in Shane Murphy who is a better kicker than both and who could take the long distance frees also- massive opportunity lost here by management. Next few weeks will be interesting to say the least- can't wait for Sat to see the contenders in action.
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inchperfect
Senior Member
No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Aug 2, 2016 19:42:22 GMT
Is "Ó Beaglaioch" pronounced as it is spelt or pronounced Ó Beaglaí? That seemed to be how Ger Canning pronounced it.
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Post by An Ciarraíoch Taistealaíoch on Aug 2, 2016 22:25:54 GMT
Has Tony Brosnan any league appearances? Are there any other examples of players with championship but no league appearances? Morley hasn't any league appearances either
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Post by derry4sam on Aug 2, 2016 23:02:33 GMT
I thought Donaghy was quite decent on Sunday, whether you can leave him there against Dublin is another thing but on the merits of analysing this particular game, for a second time this season he dominated Brennan so credit where credit is due.
Moran had a stinker for me, bar a few decent kick passes in the second half, he appears to be really out of form. Croke Park looked like the last place he wanted to be during the 45's farce at the start. What was most worrying was how short of match sharpness/fitness Maher appeared when he came on.
It's funny how before the All Ireland final last year it was accepted nationally that Kerry had the best midfield in Ireland and that if Cluxton was forced to kick long Kerry would wipe them out around the middle. Not even 12 months on and all of Kerry's headaches appear to be centred around midfield.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 23:09:06 GMT
Moran had a stinker for me, bar a few decent kick passes in the second half, he appears to be really out of form. Croke Park looked like the last place he wanted to be during the 45's farce at the start. What was most worrying was how short of match sharpness/fitness Maher appeared when he came on. Confidence players such as Moran and Buckley shouldn't be let near a 45. I'd include a fair few more players than that in such a list. The reward of having a 45 or two kicked isn't worth the risk of a player losing their composure out there. 45s aren't such a big part of the game that not taking them is a big issue --- take them short ffs unless Sheehan is on the pitch.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Aug 3, 2016 8:40:54 GMT
Moran had a stinker for me, bar a few decent kick passes in the second half, he appears to be really out of form. Croke Park looked like the last place he wanted to be during the 45's farce at the start. What was most worrying was how short of match sharpness/fitness Maher appeared when he came on. Confidence players such as Moran and Buckley shouldn't be let near a 45. I'd include a fair few more players than that in such a list. The reward of having a 45 or two kicked isn't worth the risk of a player losing their composure out there. 45s aren't such a big part of the game that not taking them is a big issue --- take them short ffs unless Sheehan is on the pitch. for a county that prides itself as being a "kicking county" it would be a fair indictment of them if there isn't a single player among the best 15 in Kerry that cant take on the opportunity of a free shot at the posts from 45 yards.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 3, 2016 9:41:58 GMT
In the rush to "speed up" the game free kicks from the hands became the norm and the skill of place kicking has been neglected. We now have players that take frees from the hands from a position somewhere in the vicinity of the free (but generally in a more advantageous position after the kicker takes his run up). The 45 and the kick out (hence keepers taking more and more 45's) are the remaining place kick routines in the game. Hurling has tended to stay true to its core values and side line cuts and frees from the ground remain as skills that are valued and practiced. This comes back to the question I have posed several times - what are the core values of GAA football and how are these encouraged by the rule book.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 3, 2016 17:10:28 GMT
Has Tony Brosnan any league appearances? Are there any other examples of players with championship but no league appearances? Morley hasn't any league appearances either There was 5 of the panel from the last Clare game who are all at the very inexperienced stage still. Tony Brosnan 0 league 1 championship Tadgh Morley 0 league 3 championship Barry O'Sullivan 1 league 0 championship Tom O'Sullivan 1 league 0 championship Brian O'Beaglaoich 2 league 3 championship This includes the 2nd Clare game. All 5 of these have serious promise, but it's a lot to be expecting lads that inexperienced at senior level to be gamechangers/game winners. I think if Eamonn is manager next year, he might have some big calls to make in terms of telling some of the older lads that there race is run.
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Post by glengael on Aug 4, 2016 9:29:55 GMT
Is Tony Brosnan anything to Eoin? I think not but a few people have tried to convince me there must be a connection.
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fg
Senior Member
Posts: 292
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Post by fg on Aug 4, 2016 9:42:12 GMT
Is Tony Brosnan anything to Eoin? I think not but a few people have tried to convince me there must be a connection. No he is no relation.
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Post by givehimaball on Aug 4, 2016 11:09:50 GMT
Is Tony Brosnan anything to Eoin? I think not but a few people have tried to convince me there must be a connection. No he is no relation. Yup 100% definitely not a relation. Brosnan is a common enough surname around Killarney.
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Post by ciarrai16 on Aug 4, 2016 11:17:23 GMT
I think Bryan Sheehan's lack of pace would prove a major weakness against Dublin but his free taking ability is essential in my eyes. He has to be played for this ability. I know he played in goal as a minor and I don't think he would be much worse in goal than what is there already. It is too late for such a drastic change at this point of the year but maybe this is something that could work in future. But I'm probably just grasping at straws!
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 4, 2016 22:09:20 GMT
Moran had a stinker for me, bar a few decent kick passes in the second half, he appears to be really out of form. Croke Park looked like the last place he wanted to be during the 45's farce at the start. What was most worrying was how short of match sharpness/fitness Maher appeared when he came on. Confidence players such as Moran and Buckley shouldn't be let near a 45. I'd include a fair few more players than that in such a list. The reward of having a 45 or two kicked isn't worth the risk of a player losing their composure out there. 45s aren't such a big part of the game that not taking them is a big issue --- take them short ffs unless Sheehan is on the pitch. I think at least one and possibly two of our points last Sunday came from that scenario. The problem with Sheehan not being on the pitch is that the opposition feel they can foul with impunity. But a short pass and a quick point from play would get the same result. So Sheehan can be kept for the endgame when players are tired and getting sloppy with the tackle. You might say he would need to be sharper than last weekend but remember the game was well won by the time he came on. With an endgame in the balance it could be a very different matter.
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