abù
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Posts: 134
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Post by abù on Oct 2, 2016 12:51:05 GMT
Have yet to watch it back but in real time I felt that Deegan and his linesmen had a very poor day. A ridiculous amount of off the ball stuff directly in linesman's line of sight ignored. There seemed to be quite a bit of off the ball incidents alright. But on the Sunday game last night they were all in agreement that there was not much wrong with it. Apparently it was only players getting tangled but no punches be thrown so it was OK. Surely they can't be serious. Another piece that suprised me was when Des asked would mayo win an all ireland in the next 4 or 5 years again all 6 or 7 of the panel replied no. That suprised me, over 150 mins the minimum seperated them from the "greatest team ever". So ill put the question here.. Do you think will mayo win an Ireland in the next 4 to 5 years?
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Post by jackiel on Oct 2, 2016 13:09:43 GMT
In real time I certainly saw plenty of punches thrown, by both sides I must add. In fairness Mayo have put up the best challenge to Dublin in recent years so they may just do it. I felt that having not won the last day that they wouldn't get a chance at all yesterday. They were only a kick of a ball behind Dublin so it bodes well for them.
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Post by mayo4sam on Oct 2, 2016 14:28:13 GMT
congrats rashers, kick of the ball between them, still scratching my head with our choice of goalie. He cost us 1-4 before he was carded.
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Post by southward on Oct 2, 2016 15:06:26 GMT
Have yet to watch it back but in real time I felt that Deegan and his linesmen had a very poor day. A ridiculous amount of off the ball stuff directly in linesman's line of sight ignored. There seemed to be quite a bit of off the ball incidents alright. But on the Sunday game last night they were all in agreement that there was not much wrong with it. Apparently it was only players getting tangled but no punches be thrown so it was OK. Surely they can't be serious. Another piece that suprised me was when Des asked would mayo win an all ireland in the next 4 or 5 years again all 6 or 7 of the panel replied no. That suprised me, over 150 mins the minimum seperated them from the "greatest team ever". So ill put the question here.. Do you think will mayo win an Ireland in the next 4 to 5 years? No.
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dart
Senior Member
Posts: 277
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Post by dart on Oct 2, 2016 15:11:36 GMT
Kerry put it up to Dublin in the semi final and for a team in transition that's great going.
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Post by Kingdomson on Oct 2, 2016 16:02:48 GMT
Kerry put it up to Dublin in the semi final and for a team in transition that's great going. Agreed! Moreover, we did ourselves no favour by removing our best scoring forward with the game still in the melting pot! Crazy, absolutely crazy! To digress, I wonder if managers are sometimes being led astray by the stats with common sense or just sound judgement during game time going out the window. What ever happened to gut instinct? Rochford explained the dropping of the Mayo goalkeeper Clarke in favour of Hennelly in one interview as looking at the stats and making the calculation - I mean WTF? I wonder did some bright spark whisper in Eamon's ear that Geaney hadn't touched the ball in x amount of minutes or hadn't run x amount of meters and therefore his race was run? Just wondering out loud because I still cannot fathom the reasoning behind the move.
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Post by taggert on Oct 2, 2016 17:02:08 GMT
Dart, I would have thought we will be in transition when Aidan, Mahony, Marc, Sheahan and perhaps Gooch are no longer part of the setup. Or do you define transition as any period between All Ireland victories?! For me the transition is yet to come and having seen the 4 c'ship quarter finals this weekend, it could be longer than we all think...
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Post by taggert on Oct 2, 2016 17:03:17 GMT
Aidan, Star...that should have read
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Post by jackiel on Oct 2, 2016 17:04:03 GMT
My God man, you could drive yourself crazy with what if's, time to move on and concentrate on progression next year.
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Post by taggert on Oct 2, 2016 17:23:23 GMT
No what if there my friend whatsoever. I think we are well behind Dublin and believe we may get worse before we actually get better....
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Oct 2, 2016 21:37:51 GMT
congrats rashers, kick of the ball between them, still scratching my head with our choice of goalie. He cost us 1-4 before he was carded. Fair play Mayo, sorry for your troubles. I said a few times on here I think Rochfords best chance is 2017, he had a steep learning curve this year. Your team died for the cause both days and were very unlucky the first day. Your tackling and tracking were epic but yis had to sit just a bit too deep to achieve it, need 2 or 3 more points from attack. Im just relieved. See yis next year, keep the chin up, I'm sure you will anyway! Thanks to all the posters here for the generous and classy comhgairdeas posts. Great forum. I'll post more about the game when I get my head back in contact with planet earth, and my body
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Oct 2, 2016 22:02:42 GMT
still scratching my head with our choice of goalie. He cost us 1-4 before he was carded. Not only that but it was also the cause of both black cards. That would have been 2 more subs for Mayo which would probably have helped their cause. For example it could have been Coen for Macauley and Barrett for Costello when they came on which might have reduced their impact somewhat. I don't ever remember a change like that backfiring so spectacularly. You'd really feel for Hennelly. On another matter, does anybody think the anti-Keegan media campaign contributed to his black card yesterday. While it was a cynical foul it wasn't technically a black card as it didn't meet any of the black card foul descriptions. Lastly, and possibly most importantly this Dublin teams refusal to be beaten and will to win is very admirable. They really do seem to do whatever necessary to win the game. Congrats to all the Dub posters on here.
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Post by jackiel on Oct 2, 2016 22:23:44 GMT
still scratching my head with our choice of goalie. He cost us 1-4 before he was carded. Not only that but it was also the cause of both black cards. That would have been 2 more subs for Mayo which would probably have helped their cause. For example it could have been Coen for Macauley and Barrett for Costello when they came on which might have reduced their impact somewhat. I don't ever remember a change like that backfiring so spectacularly. You'd really feel for Hennelly. On another matter, does anybody think the anti-Keegan media campaign contributed to his black card yesterday. While it was a cynical foul it wasn't technically a black card as it didn't meet any of the black card foul descriptions. Lastly, and possibly most importantly this Dublin teams refusal to be beaten and will to win is very admirable. They really do seem to do whatever necessary to win the game. Congrats to all the Dub posters on here. I have to say I believe it had a part to play alright. The money spent on motivational coaches & psychologists by Dublin bore fruit, the mental toughness they showed to hang on in there to the very end compares to Mayo who last year and in the first match didn't seem to believe they could win it out.
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Post by glengael on Oct 3, 2016 8:18:28 GMT
Well done to the Dubs and I hope Rashers and all our Metropolitian friends enjoy the winter.
4 All Irelands in 6 seasons including back to back titles is some achievement. I'd say it hasn't been done for years, say since about hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ....................2009.
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Post by thebluepanther on Oct 3, 2016 8:28:01 GMT
To the Kerry posters thanks for the nice words, not easy when your county isnt involved. Looking forward to our league game in March I think down in Killarney. Commiserations Mayo4Sam, your team gave everything. The tackling was the best I've seen brilliantly coached and some lovely point taking,I did feel we were slightly motoring better throughout the game , but only just. Then when we squandered 3 great chances near the end with Fitzsimmons laying the wrong ball to Brogan and Fenton also with a great chance , mc Carthy missed an easy point , I was convinced we would see extra time. Two big things near the end got us over the line Mdmc out jumped a couple of Mayo guys to win a ball he had no right too and Ciaran Kilkenny caught the last kickout above 3 Mayo guys , there are the small margins. Looking at next year if things come to pass, it could be Mayo v Kerry in the semifinal. Neither team will be able to focus on Dublin from early. Already a mouth watering tie, should it happen. Either way best of Luck go8ng forward. But for now we have club championship to focus all the energy on.
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kot
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Post by kot on Oct 3, 2016 9:33:44 GMT
Congratulations to Dublin (again!). Some achievement and have cracked the repeat code now so will be raging hot favourites to do it again. I didnt think that our own run from 2000-2009 would be matched for a long time in the modern game but Dubs poised to smash it. It wasn't too long ago that when we got the Dubs we had the same attitude that Alex Ferguson had about spurs. "Lads, its Dublin". Those days long gone and great credit for the work that was put in over the last 15 odd years to bring them that success.
Both black cards left me scratching my head and I never thought I would see a fella waving imaginary cards at the ref in Croke Park. Not nice to see. Standard was far better than the first day out. Every time you thought Dubs were going to pull away, Mayo came right back. Fair play to them for that. But much like the last day, once they got back. They retreated instead of pushing on the advantage.
I think our Mayo poster said it earlier, the Hennelly decision? Jesus I feel for the fella as its not his fault his management made a hairbrained decision but he cost them 1-04 minimum and their best player!
To taggert, the transition longer than we think.... we do have 3 back to back minors to our name so lets not get all gloomy after a few bad county championship quarter finals. Sur the County championship final in 2013 was one of the worst lob sided affairs I ever went to.... we were after getting to a semi final and losing against Dublin and it looked that was nothing outside the Crokes, then goooch got injured and it was all over for us..... we all know what happened next.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 3, 2016 9:49:26 GMT
Nice to escape to the sanctuary and quietness of the high rise car park after Saturday night's replay. It was sobering to be surrounded in the stands by young Mayo adults with tears on their checks. The older ones just seemed to look numb and distant and had seen it all before. There is nothing we can say to Mayo people, words are empty.
Saturday night was a case of trying to roll the heavy boulder to the top hill and just falling short of the top ledge and final free fall. The Dubs are so good at doing all the collective small things so well that I think if Mayo were still there they would still be stuck under the top ledge with their shoulders to the boulder. It was evident from twenty minutes out that Mayo didn't have the quality in the inside forward line to eek out the win. Saturday was a case of being exceptionally good but just not quite good enough to beat the now undisputed kingpins in the game today. Alternatively if the game went to extra time the boulder might have eventually slipped and Dublin would have got a run on Mayo with their stronger bench.
For me Stephen Cluxton is the Dan Carter of the kicking game. His has fine honed his kicking art to that of genius. His long kick outs were sublime finding Dublin players at distance. The kick outs are the start of Dublin doing the small collective things well but time and time again Dublin win hard ball that needs to be won from a lot of these long kick outs.
Counties have invested a lot of time trying to achieve Cluxtonite in their kick outs. When one does they decide to leave him out for the biggest game of the year. David Clarke was top class in the drawn final, the decision to leave him was bizarre and is inexcusable from a management position. I'd like to be able to read this morning in the Examiner what Tony McEntee would have written about the management team that changed their keeper for a final. Alas, McEntee has gone from hunter to hunted! Arriving in the stand on Saturday I was gobsmacked to hear Clarke wasn't starting. Was this the new twist and revenge from the curse gone out to October one wondered looking around to see if Amanda was lurking somewhere or if the informant beside me had been drinking porter. The Keeper change contributed vastly to Mayo losing the game but it is not conclusive if Mayo would have won with Clarke in goals. Dublin do the collective so well they would probably have found a way to grind out a win.
While the keeper change was significant the black carding of Lee Keegan was the game changer for me. The application of black card continues to infuriate. John Small's incident was much more a clear cut black card than either Copper's and Keegan's, yet he escaped. Neither of the other two fell in the spirit of why the black card was brought in. Commentators are divided on if the Keegan black was actually a black or not. It is time to scrap the black card and introduce the 8 minute sin bin. The personal price is far too high for players who get caught on the incorrect interpretation of the referee, especially on All -Ireland final day. As a punter who drove 700 km to attend the game you want to see the best players on the field. The black cards took away from this game and removed two main characters from the game. The Keegan lose to Mayo was massive in the final push of the boulder to final ledge and in preparing the launch pad during the second half.
Saturday night was enthralling, edge of the seat, compulsive viewing. The new game continues, at the highest level, to evolve into something very exciting. The combined high-end defensive and an attacking game is becoming very interesting to watch and keeps the punter engaged with the game. At the lower tiers and among the chasing pack the defensive product lacking the attacking element is a poor product. The top counties will continue to push out the boundaries of possibilities. I was sceptical about the new game initially but Saturday night was damn good from an entertainment point of view. The weakness now in the system is that we get to see so few of the top counties playing against each other in the August/September window. This has to change.
Dublin are the undisputed heavy weights of the game right now and I salute them and congratulate blue, sky, rash and other Dubs who drink the game with us here on this forum. Enjoy the trip lads. The challenge to the Dubs will be enhanced when Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone step up to the plate and bring the same manic competitiveness that Tyrone and Armagh brought to the table in the noughties. It will contribute greatly to defining this Dublin team's greatness over the next few seasons.
As a footballing junkie, and belonging to the preconceived rednecks group - clowns that attend a lot of games all over the country year round - I make no apologies to anyone for missing local championship games in Kerry over the weekend as a result of the trip to Croker or for looking for Croker tickets next summer. Now when is the NFL 2017 starting?
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Post by skybluezone on Oct 3, 2016 10:14:42 GMT
From a blue perspective, this one is very sweet, second only to 2011. Not sure why that is, maybe because there was such an understandable groundswell of support for Mayo from the neutral. Or maybe the manner in which Dublin had to dig so deep to get over the line.
Mayo brought absolute war to both games. I suppose the thinking was to drag Dublin into a scrap, and see if Dublin had the stomach for it. Great credit to Dublin, won this the hard way. Dublin also should have been more clinical down the final stretch, and despite an MOM performance from Mick Fitz, any inter county player should have the confidence and ability to pop the ball over the bar from 20 yards. Little things like that added up to an uncomfortable final few minutes for the Dubs fans.
I thought the heroes for us in no particular order were Cluxton, Fitz, O'Sullivan, Fenton, MDMA Connolly, Rock and Costello. Cluxton deserves special mention, never has a GAA player's strengths and weaknesses been so analysed by opposition teams. Its mental when you think that if he hits a poor kickout a roar goes up from the opposition support in celebration. But he hit a couple of 60 yard arrows in the second half that should really have resulted in goals. Drove home the message that he's still the main man. Connolly too, not for a second was there a doubt in his mind about scoring the pen. Clarke made a valiant attempt to save it but accuracy + velocity = perfection. His mindset is so strong, which allows him to kick the winner v Kerry off his wrong foot, miss the last minute sideline v Mayo, and finish the pen in the replay. People argued about wrong option the last day, but its that " I will do it" attitude that sets him apart. I wouldn't swap him for anyone else out there. Rock worked like a dog, and got his mojo back with placed balls. And what can you say about the impact of Costello? Well flagged as a gifted underage star, he finally came of age on Saturday. Hopefully he can kick on now, because we need him to. Mayo have gone up in my estimation, I thought all year that any half decent side would put them out of their misery, but incremental improvement got them to the big day. And jesus they left nothing in the tank. Some fine players, but still a forward or two short. Their scores didn't seem to come as easily for them as ours. Their age profile is decent and with the successful minor and u21s on the way they will be at the top table for a while yet. They still have an issue with where to play AOS, and I cant help them with that one either to be honest. Works hard but underwhelming for a "talisman".
In terms of the controversial stuff, Small was lucky to stay on till subbed. Cooper according to the letter of the law probably deserved black. But I'm not sure the black card was introduced to address nothing incidents in a crowded midfield area. And Deegan made a rod for his own back with this decision because there was huge pressure on him to level it up with the Keegan incident. Some on here have said it may not have been technically a black, but the flip side to that is that it was a cynical foul and prevented Connolly a clear run at goal. To me this type of foul is the very good reason black cards were introduced, but the GAA have tied themselves into a technical knot at this stage, and nobody seems to know what is what. Mayo may feel aggrieved at a few decisions, especially in relation to Small, but Dublin also saw some go against them. For instance in the first half a free was given, then Boyle (as he normally does in these situations) has a push at Fenton, who barges back into him 3 seconds later. Yellow for Fenton and Boyle walks away. Fenton walks a tightrope. Worst of all was Jason Doherty absolutely barreling into Cooper as he goes to pick the ball out of the net. Could easily have been a straight red, Cooper completely blindsided. Umpires had a chat about it with Deegan but the conclusion was nothing to see here. The mind boggles when you think back to O'Gara incident v Donegal where the umpires saw the slightest contact and deemed it a straight red. Now that is the definiton of inconsistency.... The "foul" on Barry Moran near the end that resulted in COC scoring to bring it back to one was also soft in the extreme.
Dont really want to be thinking about next year yet, really want to enjoy the current celebrations. But I do think Gavin needs to freshen it up and give some of the younger lads the chance to stake a claim come the league. Lowndes Costello Carthy especially spring to mind. Bastick is retiring so midfield options really need to be explored. McCaffrey will be back but not sure how long he can sustain an IC career in his profession. But the nucleus of a strong team is there still. Byrne, Small, Jack, Kilkenny, Fenton, all 23 or under. Philly, Mick Fitz, Cooper, Cian O'Sull, James Mc, MDMA, Connolly, Rock, KevMc all still the right side of 30. We'll be in the shake up next year hopefully. But for now we'll enjoy the victory.
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Post by Dermot on Oct 3, 2016 10:38:18 GMT
Congrats to Dublin .. just about deserved to win it and they'll surely go down as the best team of the decade already .. unless something totally mad happens .. but dear God poor Mayo ..... Before a ball was kicked I was asking people "was Clarke caught chatting up Roachfords wife or something" cause I really couldnt believe why he had been replaced ... and then it came to pass that Hennelly cost a goal and several points "and" led to Keegan getting the line .... Poor fella but why in Gods name was he even on ... Poor Mayo shoot themselves in the foot again .... But even after all that it was still up for grabs and Mayo looked like the better bet for a while .... Then MDMA came on and changed everything.. You'd have to feel very sorry for C O'Connor missing that last point ... he really should have scored that !! Jeez, how do they cope with this year after year
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 3, 2016 10:46:29 GMT
Cluxton was the man of the match on Saturday imo- his kick outs were phenomenal! In the second half he was picking out lads 60 or so yards out and starting attacks- he was the winning of the game for Dublin.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 3, 2016 11:08:51 GMT
Cluxton was the man of the match on Saturday imo- his kick outs were phenomenal! In the second half he was picking out lads 60 or so yards out and starting attacks- he was the winning of the game for Dublin. Would agree with that.
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Post by Dermot on Oct 3, 2016 11:10:30 GMT
I meant to add once again that the black card, however beneficial in some areas, is complete nonsense and really needs kicked into touch as it obviously can NOT be policed correctly .... Why dont they at least change it to a sin-bin situation ... at least if a player gets one in the wrong he wont miss the entire game (and possibly an AI final !!) ... and it will stop the current situation where the black card helps the big teams who can bring on a like for like player, and hinders the small teams who may lose their best player(s) and can only bring on an inferior player ...
Its not police-able and its unfair to the smaller counties.. Surely something has to be done now !!
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kot
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Post by kot on Oct 3, 2016 12:20:30 GMT
I meant to add once again that the black card, however beneficial in some areas, is complete nonsense and really needs kicked into touch as it obviously can NOT be policed correctly .... Why dont they at least change it to a sin-bin situation ... at least if a player gets one in the wrong he wont miss the entire game (and possibly an AI final !!) ... and it will stop the current situation where the black card helps the big teams who can bring on a like for like player, and hinders the small teams who may lose their best player(s) and can only bring on an inferior player ... Its not police-able and its unfair to the smaller counties.. Surely something has to be done now !! Totally agree, why the hell wasn't the sin bin introduced after it was trialled a few years back?
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Post by sidelined on Oct 3, 2016 12:48:31 GMT
no matter how many cards and of what colour it makes no difference if not enforced. it not rocket science, if it black at 20 minutes its black at 50 minutes just be consistant. lane for the drawn game didn't want to know about them, deegan said 1 each was enough [uaual suspects gone] and then 1 for goalie, after that open season. the documentary on last years final hung coldrick out to dry as regards enforcing cards.
why not broadcast a conference where top referees are told how to enforce cards, it would be benefit supporters and local referees as to enforcement. different applications every week is driving people nuts!
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Post by kerryforliam on Oct 3, 2016 12:52:48 GMT
Hard luck to Mayo. Really hope the men from the west win an All-Ireland with this crop (once it's not at our expense of course).
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 3, 2016 13:07:40 GMT
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Post by Dermot on Oct 3, 2016 13:23:42 GMT
no matter how many cards and of what colour it makes no difference if not enforced. it not rocket science, if it black at 20 minutes its black at 50 minutes just be consistant. lane for the drawn game didn't want to know about them, deegan said 1 each was enough [uaual suspects gone] and then 1 for goalie, after that open season. the documentary on last years final hung coldrick out to dry as regards enforcing cards. why not broadcast a conference where top referees are told how to enforce cards, it would be benefit supporters and local referees as to enforcement. different applications every week is driving people nuts! I think its just impossible to police correctly ... Its totally inconsistent and wont improve ... its just a mess!!
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 3, 2016 13:30:17 GMT
It needs to be scrapped in favour of the sin bin. Can we conclusively say that Keegan pulled down Connolly and that Connolly didn't dive? No we can't, neither can the ref, it is only guess work when open to the interpretation of intent. It is far too big a price for players to pay on All-Ireland final day. Of course with the sin bin we could have 5-6 players in the bin at a given time. The game needs a defined tackle.
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Post by augustafield on Oct 3, 2016 17:28:35 GMT
Having watched the match again the introduction of Costelloe but more particularly MDMA clinched the game for the Dubs. Costelloe scored super points and MDMA was immense and didn't put a foot wrong. And still Mayo had a chance to level at the end . Last years efforts by Mayo against the Dubs were replicated - proof if needed that Mayo are presently the only team capable of rattling the Dubs. What ifs apply after every sporting encounter but we know what the result would be if what if didn't apply here. And this will hurt Mayo for a long long time. Anybody remember 1982 ... ?
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Post by inforthebreaks on Oct 3, 2016 19:00:15 GMT
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