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Post by ddtinexile on Apr 23, 2016 12:39:32 GMT
I was just about to ask the same question Veteran when I spotted your above post. Saturday afternoon, day before national final and no sign of a Dublin team. How arrogant is that.?.
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Post by ddtinexile on Apr 23, 2016 12:43:37 GMT
Just about to ask the same question Veteran when I spotted your above post. Saturday afternoon , day before a nationa final and no sign of a Dublin team. How arrogant is that?
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 23, 2016 12:54:06 GMT
This one is rumoured
Cluxton
McMahon Cooper Byrne
McCarthy O'Sullivan Small
Fenton Bastick
Flynn Andrews Kilkenny
Mannion Connolly Brogan
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 23, 2016 13:58:15 GMT
Just about to ask the same question Veteran when I spotted your above post. Saturday afternoon , day before a nationa final and no sign of a Dublin team. How arrogant is that? I don't understand, how is it arrogant?
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Post by glengael on Apr 23, 2016 14:44:53 GMT
Just about to ask the same question Veteran when I spotted your above post. Saturday afternoon , day before a nationa final and no sign of a Dublin team. How arrogant is that? I don't understand, how is it arrogant? It could be perceived as precluding any meaningful discussion of their team, and as a consequence the match itself. It could be viewed as Dublin taking the approach that they are somehow superior to other teams who release their selections in time, so as to allow for the programme to be printed and the lineups to be included in newspapers, websites etc. The Dubs projecting the image of being on a different level to the rest of us mere mortals who must be made to wait and graciously accept their team sheet when they deign to release it , even at 3pm tomorrow if needs be. I'm sure in the mists of time there was some directive about teams being announced but sure maybe I dreamt or that it applied only to the Championship.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 23, 2016 16:06:22 GMT
This one is rumoured Cluxton McMahon Cooper Byrne McCarthy O'Sullivan Small Fenton Bastick Flynn Andrews Kilkenny Mannion Connolly Brogan That's the team I heard. Not sure why it's so late but then teams often don't line out as named. I wouldn't be surprised to see McCauley & Rock start. Kingdomson, good shout about Kilkenny. I said that about him last year, and it was nearly all there but not quite. But the signs so far have possibly been better this year. Flynn will surely operate around the middle, especially if McCauley not starting.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 23, 2016 16:09:06 GMT
Just about to ask the same question Veteran when I spotted your above post. Saturday afternoon , day before a nationa final and no sign of a Dublin team. How arrogant is that? A lady is entitled to retain.....a certain air of mystery & allure......
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Post by beantownfan on Apr 23, 2016 16:22:05 GMT
I thought they brought in a rule a few years back whereby a team had to be submitting on the Thursday/Friday before the game? Or have the Dubs just opted to take the hit on the fine? I suppose it is back to the Micko mantra for Kerry of naming your best 15 and leave the opposition do the worrying? Hard to look past the dubs, but it is about as intriguing a league final as I can remember!
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 23, 2016 16:53:31 GMT
Jim Gavin has made two changes to the Dublin side that eased past Donegal in the semi-final for tomorrow’s League decider against Kerry at Croke Park.
In a repeat of last year’s All Ireland final, football’s two greatest rivals will do battle once again as the Dubs seek to clinch their fourth league title in as many years.
Centre back Cian O’Sullivan, so instrumental in subduing Colm Cooper last September, has been brought in at the expense of Eric Lowndes, while Paul Mannion gets the nod ahead of Dean Rock at corner forward.
Dublin side to face Kerry:
1. Stephen Cluxton (Parnells) 2. Philly McMahon (Ballymun Kickhams) 3. Jonny Cooper (Na Fianna) 4. David Byrne (Naomh Olaf) 5. James McCarthy (Ballymun Kickhams) 6. Cian O’Sullivan (Kilmacud Crokes) 7. John Small (Ballymun Kickhams) 8. Brian Fenton (Raheny) 9. Denis Bastick (Templeogue Synge Street) 10. Paul Flynn (Fingalians) 11. Paddy Andrews (St Brigids) 12. Ciaran Kilkenny (Castleknock) 13. Paul Mannion (Kilmacud Crokes) 14. Diarmuid Connolly (St Vincent’s) 15. Bernard Brogan (St Oliver Plunkett’s/Eoghan Ruadh)
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Post by sullyschoice on Apr 23, 2016 18:48:42 GMT
Mannion is the one I would be most concerned about
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Post by Deise Exile on Apr 23, 2016 21:41:37 GMT
Mannion is the one I would be most concerned about Rumours Star is out
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 24, 2016 0:42:28 GMT
Rumours Andrews is out
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Post by Chinatown on Apr 24, 2016 7:58:09 GMT
Rumour rumours are out
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Premier
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,176
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Post by Premier on Apr 24, 2016 9:04:50 GMT
Mannion is the one I would be most concerned about Rumours Star is out Any substance to this?
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2016 9:25:40 GMT
Andrews out and Rock starts?
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2016 9:30:19 GMT
Dermot Crowe: For once, a league final that matters
Dublin and Kerry will both be fired up to lay down a marker today That late April day 29 years ago, when Kerry and Dublin last met in a National League final, meant appreciably more to the team in blue. In glorious sunshine, fans also gathered on the city's northside for the FAI Cup final at Dalymount Park, while the Gaels headed in the opposite direction along the Royal Canal towards Croke Park. Kerry were All-Ireland champions, three years on the bounce, and in two of those they had overpowered Dublin. But in the spring of '87, the Dubs were inspired, winning by three points. Kieran Duff scored a memorable goal and the unheralded Declan Bolger had the game of his life, eclipsing Jack O'Shea. What came of it? Dublin were flushed away in the summer by Meath in the Leinster final for the second year running, and would suffer the same chastisement in '88 and '89. And Kerry were, the league final and the Munster Championship that year confirming, on the slide, age having crept up on the greatest team the game has known. Cork and Meath were about to become the main act, sharing the next four All-Irelands.
Even in the years without a Kerry-Dublin league final, the two giants have managed to carry on without it being a major inconvenience. There were spells when drought set in. Dublin went from '83 to '95 and then '95 to 2011 without an All-Ireland, the second stretch being one of their longest ever.
After rounding off the three-in-a-row in '86, Kerry didn't win again for 11 years. But in the same time they've won, combined, 11 of the 29 All-Ireland titles on offer. And now, Kerry are in a rare place of being deadly serious about a league final.
It might not be overstating it to rank today as the most eagerly relished league final Kerry has ever faced, even if the outcome will not absolutely determine the success or otherwise of their season.
James O'Donoghue, the Player of the Year when they won their All-Ireland two years ago, is still to come back from his latest shoulder operation. Anthony Maher is on the mend too. They will be a stronger panel in a few months - a different proposition.
By then, Dublin will be stronger too. The team Kerry faces today might not be quite the spruced-up version they may encounter later on. Dublin's performances in the league this spring have seen them nail eight wins on the trot and they are favourites to win their fourth league title in succession, equalling the feat of Kerry at the start of the 1970s. The last team to defeat them in league or championship was Kerry in the league in March last year. In the championship, they haven't lost since the Donegal defeat of 2014. They have managed this year's unbeaten run while losing their two best defenders, Jack McCaffrey and Rory O'Carroll.
Today though, is more about Kerry and what they come up with. If Dublin are being talked of as the greatest team the county has ever produced, with three successive championship wins over Kerry including two All-Ireland finals and a semi-final in five years, then no county is more piqued by those claims than Kerry.
They are realistic enough to know that last September they were outplayed for most of the final. They realise the margin of defeat could have been a lot worse. But they are now coming off the back of six league wins, their greatest sweep of spring victories since last winning the league in 2009.
Their previous league successes came after harrowing losses in All-Ireland finals: the win over Derry in '09 following the reverse to Tyrone the previous September; the league final win over Galway in '06 followed losing the All-Ireland to Tyrone and helped heal wounds and get the team back in a winning groove. In both years their league wins were the springboard to All-Irelands, even if 10 years ago they encountered a wobble in Munster and needed to travel the scenic route, inspired by Kieran Donaghy's conversion to full-forward.
Donaghy almost saved them last September following his intervention, and a series of aerial raids on the Dublin full-back line, but his conversion this spring has been to the middle of the field. Hopes that Tommy Walsh might rediscover some of the brilliance which marked his performances in 2009 before his Australian venture have ebbed.
Donaghy looks refreshed and rejuvenated. Three years ago he was left off the Kerry team for the Munster final by Eamonn Fitzmaurice and, at 30, his career might have been seen to be entering a natural period of decline. He wondered then if he could push two or three years out of it. He won an All-Ireland the next year, the reason he was still playing, and this is the fourth season of his career epilogue. He has gone one better than he might have expected.
But for injury, Brian Begley might have reduced the average age of the Kerry defence considerably. Marc ó Sé is not the marker he once was but he has more football than most playing the game, and his manager will tell you that there aren't two fitter players in the squad than ó Sé and his fellow veteran Aidan O'Mahony. The Rathmore man has been enjoying a sweeping role in front of the full-back line.
Kerry have tended to start leagues badly under Fitzmaurice - and this year was no different. They suffered early losses to Dublin and Roscommon, but they were still working their way back to match fitness. From there they have stitched six wins together and avenged the defeat to Roscommon in the semi-final. The team has responded well to some redesign work. Paul Murphy's move to centre-forward is offering them something different, even if the move was already set in motion by his club, Rathmore, in last year's club championship.
It happened by default as Rathmore had an injury crisis which depleted their attack, and Murphy moved up. There he remained until brought back to mark James O'Donoghue in the county semi-final. He has played in attack before for his club but he essentially became their man-marker once Tom O'Sullivan retired. That role, while valuable, has a trade-off in that the full repertoire of his football talents are often hidden in the rudimentary task of curtailing another. Since the Down match, their first league win, he has been enjoying a new attacking role with Kerry. But with the fluidity of movement and changing tactical nature of football today, nothing is set in stone.
In some of the games, Murphy has played more as a wing-back than a centre-forward. The point of this is that it has given him and the side a fresh look.
For a spell in last year's All-Ireland final, around the middle of the first half, Kerry had more of the play and exerted some authority. They led by a point and could have extended it - their finishing let them down.
Afterwards, there were conspiracies and abundant opinions, as always, about where Kerry messed up, one of those claiming that some players were not fit enough. A number have been under the knife since. Others countered that by arguing that Kerry created enough scoring chances to win, in spite of their sub-standard performance, but converted just a third of them. Dublin nailed two-thirds of theirs.
They are encouraged, too, by the regeneration of Darran O'Sullivan, their best player in the league so far, and another who might have been forgotten or seen as past his best. He has been restricted by injuries but, famously, took time out of work to focus on his inter-county career. He now looks to have a clear run and the form which made him one of the game's most effective front men. He brings an energy that unsettles defences, creates openings and turns matches. Kerry were missing that electricity last September, later consigned to banging in high balls to a packed Dublin defence. Neither Murphy, Donaghy nor O'Sullivan started last year's All-Ireland final, although all came on.
Colm Cooper, striving in vain to deny Philly McMahon a point, became the emblematic moment and image of the day, in the same way that Tyrone's crowding of Eoin Brosnan, and others, captured the changing order in the 2003 All-Ireland semi-final. McMahon's point must have stuck in the craw of every Kerry purist who regards Cooper as the quintessential Kerry footballer.
McMahon is an excellent footballer too, of course, but for Cooper the spring has been about finding out if he can still contribute as he has in the past. Kerry have been pleased with his form over the course of the league and feel he is better now than for some time. A serious injury and lengthy campaigns with Dr Crokes, which left no breather between club and county schedules, have hindered him. Soon to turn 33, he is, like a lot of Kerry's players and management, not lacking in motivation to show that September 2015 can be remedied.
Similarly, with Donaghy, Austin Stacks' run to the All-Ireland semi-final last year offered him little chance to recharge. The last winter has been less cluttered - he went back playing basketball and has emerged a fresher player.
All of which is good for Kerry's form, but Dublin is the litmus test. If they can't unsettle Dublin today then their All-Ireland bona fides will be called into question. Last September was a performance failure inside and outside the white lines - some of the management calls were strange (taking off James O'Donoghue, bringing on Paul Galvin, leaving on Cooper) - and today all must produce. Has a Kerry team ever been as fired-up for a league final?
Kerry, many of their followers feel, still have enough raw talent to win another All-Ireland. The question is if they still have the temperament required, the hardness and the resilience needed to be a champions.
Down the line, Dublin will feel the loss of McCaffrey and O'Carroll when the margins are tighter. That gives all teams hope that Dublin are not invincible.
Even in Kerry, confidence is not a given, and the importance of winning six matches on the run is not to be underestimated. They have gone through much private soul-searching and are now in the best form, for this time of the season, in at least seven years.
If they win it may bore a hole in Dublin's confidence. It would certainly help restore some of the confidence Kerry lost when the counties met last September. For once, the league final matters - as close to championship intensity as you could ever hope to expect.
Sunday Indo Sport
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2016 9:32:47 GMT
I remember the 1987 league final well. 29 years ago... hard to believe.
Kerry were running on empty then and Cork with Tompkins on board were about to take over Munster.
Ciaran Duffs early goal set the scene for Dublin
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2016 10:28:04 GMT
One from the Dubs forum
Kerry for a bit of a trimming IMO. This anger and hurt that they have felt all winter is all very well but are they good enough. Simply ... no. The talk here of showing hands etc is nonsense. These players are all but pro now and both teams and managements here are looking for the win. EF is still clinging to turning the clock back with a lot of his team. That just does not happen - with one, ever mind five. A lot of their first XV have been around a while now but are unproven as consistently top class intercounty players. Talk too of Kerry having a stronger bench that last year is way off the mark .. they haven't. We seriously blooded a huge amount of younger/fringe lads in the League this year but nobody mentions that ...
Us by 6+ all day ...
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Post by glengael on Apr 24, 2016 11:19:54 GMT
Best of luck to all the team and management and to all the supporters, travelling from near and far. It's time to start a new narrative in this rivalry.
Ciarrai Abu.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2016 11:33:26 GMT
Colm O'Rourke: Kingdom must find a way to restore honour against the Dubs
Lightning generally does not strike twice in Kerry but it is getting a bit repetitive where Dublin are concerned. The wheel has turned full circle. For 40 years, from the mid-1970s, Kerry swatted Dublin aside like an irritating fly in most big games. They also mastered the art of quiet diplomacy. Say a lot but say nothing. A gentle pat on the head and some nice advice to Dublin to keep trying.
But all is changed, changed utterly, a terrible beauty is born. William Butler Yeats was not talking about Dublin, of course, but the truth is that they have become the equivalent monster that Kerry were in the past.
Jim Gavin has been awarded a Master's degree from the Mick O'Dwyer Institute of smothering opponents with kindness. Reporters must be saying to him at this stage that they will use what he said last week and the week before and just change the name of the county involved. Because every opponent is deemed difficult and his own players have applied themselves very well and they will give their next opponent due consideration and respect. No hostages to fortune there.
Kerry need to discover their mojo today because it has been lost for the last few years against Dublin. Ever since that day in 2011 in the All-Ireland final when they had Dublin skewered with ten minutes to go and managed to lose they have not really taken the fight to Dublin. In the last two games especially, last year's final and the first round of the league, Kerry have folded like wet cards and had no stomach for the battle.
Today presents a test of manhood. That may seem a bit dramatic but you cannot win big games without having the balls for it.
Last September Kerry played no football and had no real fight either apart from the few usual suspects. I can't imagine that will happen today. Kerry have steadily improved in this campaign and gave Roscommon a right pasting in the semi-final.
The weather will help their cause too as they have a lot of skilful players like the Gooch and Darran O'Sullivan inside who will be better suited by the dry ball, even if it is not unknown for rain to fall in Kerry.
They will surely play the three big men - Donaghy, Moran and Sheehan - around midfield, and if they can force Stephen Cluxton to kick long they will win a lot of possession. No player has shown more energy or commitment this year than Kieran Donaghy and he will bring a certain combativeness that Kerry have lacked in recent years.
And yet no team has managed to stop Cluxton for a full game and if he has 25 kick-outs Dublin will claim possession on three-quarters of those.
Kerry have a very strong team in the field and I expect they will perform as if this is the last game any of them will ever play but this is Dublin who, unbeaten in 21 competitive games, are becoming the All Blacks of Gaelic football.
They have their system and it does not make that much difference who starts and who comes on. The type of play remains largely the same and close games are made look easy in the last ten minutes. Maybe that is because Dublin have a better team on at the finish of the game.
Dublin have now the most mobile team that has ever galloped around Croke Park and the fast sod suits their play perfectly. Everyone now is a footballer first and positions are more or less irrelevant except for a few defenders. The obvious one here is Cian O'Sullivan, who covers for everybody. It means that the likes of Philly McMahon and Johnny Cooper can attack knowing that the henhouse door is bolted tight. Last September Kerry's flaws seemed to be exposed with Colm Cooper forced to defend on McMahon. That is a bit simplistic. McMahon would go forward even if Messi or Ronaldo were on him so it should have been possible to have someone else covering those runs.
The other part of those marking arrangements was that it allowed McMahon to rough up the Gooch a bit and there was nobody around big enough or brave enough just to let him know the boundaries. Expect that to be a flashpoint today and this match will be a flinty affair as Kerry cannot afford to go down without giving blood in the cause.
Dublin seem able to play football at a different level than any team I have seen, rough or smooth, fast or slow, defence or attack. Nobody has the equivalent in sheer quality of McMahon, Connolly, Flynn, Andrews, Brogan, and about 20 more. Mannion is a huge asset and James McCarthy is the best player in the country. They seem impossible to beat no matter what tactics or team take the field.
This game is much more important to Kerry than Dublin. A win would set the Kingdom up for the year but if they can't beat Dublin now they will have less chance later in the season. So players like Paul Murphy will have to show the sort of form that has made him a very good outlet from defence and a good forward at the same time. More importantly, it must be war for Kerry and see if that works because the nice approach cut no ice recently.
In ancient Greece there was a fearsome group called the Spartans. Inward-looking and self-sufficient, they were feared warriors as they lived an austere life, despising luxury and living in cities with no walls or grand buildings. The Spartan mothers advised their sons before battle to come home with their shields, or on them. Either death or glory. Kerry may not have to go quite that far but there is honour involved as well as football. I expect that honour will be restored
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Apr 24, 2016 12:02:09 GMT
In spite of all the doom & gloom Kerry can win in my opinion.
It's not as if they are going into a mystery - fast kick out, CO'S, speed & workrate.
If Kerry stay with them, and Dublin can't impose themselves I can see red cards.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Apr 24, 2016 12:09:55 GMT
Apart from the final line, Colm tells us The Dubs are unbeatable, he is in the wrong job, ah sure didn't he tell us we were in for a surprise.
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Aodhan
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Post by Aodhan on Apr 24, 2016 13:09:35 GMT
Mannion is the one I would be most concerned about Rumours Star is out Kerry by 2 even without Star
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Post by gaelicden on Apr 24, 2016 13:32:19 GMT
Looking good for the game, maybe a light shower but game should be over by then
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 24, 2016 14:39:50 GMT
I think we're shadow boxing. Very little intensity by Kerry in the early stages.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Apr 24, 2016 16:02:00 GMT
Kealy the main difference between the teams. His kick outs in the first half were woeful and gifted scores and possession to the dubs.
His kickout for the goal was farcical. Were in the game till mahony was sent off. Don't know if I'd read much into today. Thought brogan had the beating of Marc all day. Fionn was lucky to last as long as he did.
Griffin looked pretty annoyed at being taken off and let fitz know too.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 24, 2016 16:07:16 GMT
Kealy the main difference between the teams. His kick outs in the first half were woeful and gifted scores and possession to the dubs. His kickout for the goal was farcical. Were in the game till mahony was sent off. Don't know if I'd read much into today. Thought brogan had the beating of Marc all day. Fionn was lucky to last as long as he did. Griffin looked pretty annoyed at being taken off and let fitz know too. Griffin right to be mad. Strange that he went off and Marc lasted
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Post by wideball on Apr 24, 2016 16:08:40 GMT
Kealy the main difference between the teams. His kick outs in the first half were woeful and gifted scores and possession to the dubs. His kickout for the goal was farcical. Were in the game till mahony was sent off. Don't know if I'd read much into today. Thought brogan had the beating of Marc all day. Fionn was lucky to last as long as he did. Griffin looked pretty annoyed at being taken off and let fitz know too. Donaghy being pulled to the ground without punishment doesn't help... What's new though...
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Post by gaelicden on Apr 24, 2016 16:15:37 GMT
Did the dubs ever beat us by 11 points or more before.
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Post by glengael on Apr 24, 2016 16:17:34 GMT
So much for the new narrative. Dublin are taking a Kilkenny-like grip on titles. Nothing in Leinster to bother then and only the (faint) hope of an August ambush.
We are well well behind them and I saw very little today to make me optimistic that we can close the gap this year.
Well done Rashers, enjoy the win and sure ye'll be team of the century before you know it!!!!!
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