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Post by inforthebreaks on Oct 1, 2015 12:14:57 GMT
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inchperfect
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No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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Post by inchperfect on Oct 1, 2015 14:35:54 GMT
It's good, it retains the provincials which in my view is important. I'd go with McGuinness' proposal though, except with the provincial winners ranked 1-4.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 1, 2015 15:58:07 GMT
Jeez, you'd never think such young county players would have brains like this to put that prezi and proposal together.
It will be interesting to see what kind of an airing they will get from the older suits. Will they still be viewed as the ugly duckling or the emerging beautiful butterfly?
Hopefully, Geezer, Donal Og, Sean Og and Dessie Farrell had nothing to do with it....................!!!!!!!!
Isn't Dermot Early the new face of L'Oreal? Wooo, a close save for the GPA with this one!
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 1, 2015 17:20:20 GMT
It's good, it retains the provincials which in my view is important. I'd go with McGuinness' proposal though, except with the provincial winners ranked 1-4. I would lean towards McGuinness's proposal too. The one aspect I really like of this is the group stages, whereas McGuiness envisages his respective top 16/bottom 16 championships as knockouts. I would like 4 groups of 4 in the top 16, with the 4 Provincial Champions as top seeds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 18:49:23 GMT
Interesting. The provincial championshis have a pretty tenuous link to the subsequent stages which us not necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately it is just a champions league type format with only eight teams knocked out. Will it make the early stages of the year any better? I am not sure it will.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 1, 2015 19:00:39 GMT
National League to start in early February with six rounds to be played over eight weeks before the conclusion in late March.
The provincial championships will be retained with winners guaranteed number one seed in the All-Ireland Series. The competitions will be played out over a six-week period in April and May. An open draw for the All-Ireland Series takes place with one team form each seeding pot making up eight groups of four teams. The top eight sides go straight into the last 16, with the second and third placed teams entering the second round and the bottom team eliminated. The championship then takes place on a knockout basis with All-Ireland quarter-finals (July 30th-31st), All-Ireland semi-finals (Aug 13th-14th) and All-Ireland final (Sept 4th).
Long season!
Where do clubs fit in to all of this?
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Post by inforthebreaks on Oct 1, 2015 19:06:11 GMT
National League to start in early February with six rounds to be played over eight weeks before the conclusion in late March.
The provincial championships will be retained with winners guaranteed number one seed in the All-Ireland Series. The competitions will be played out over a six-week period in April and May.
An open draw for the All-Ireland Series takes place with one team form each seeding pot making up eight groups of four teams. The top eight sides go straight into the last 16, with the second and third placed teams entering the second round and the bottom team eliminated. The championship then takes place on a knockout basis with All-Ireland quarter-finals ( July 30th-31st), All-Ireland semi-finals (Aug 13th-14th) and All-Ireland final (Sept 4th).
Long season! Where do clubs fit in to all of this? Thats what I was wondering too. But there are some windows in there for clubs. And at least clubs then would know their calendar and be able to structure their year around it. The problem would be if and when draws happen. But that is a problem as it is anyway. people are referencing Jimmy Mcgiunness proposal. here it is for those who dont know of it www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 1, 2015 19:07:47 GMT
Breaks and Mick, ye haven't played through the prezi!!!!!!!
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falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
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Post by falveyb2k on Oct 1, 2015 19:08:36 GMT
That's what'll kill it mick, clubs and county secretaries won't go for this and also the provincial councils(provincial matches won't matter half as much meaning much less money for the council) will try and shoot it down.
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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 1, 2015 19:22:39 GMT
If you think change is needed (and I don't) there are some good ideas here. I like scrapping the League Finals and Semis and the pointless January games. The Provincials still hold and are linked to the All Ireland. But it gets a bit confusing after that. How can you have both an "open draw" and a "seeding pool". If it's only the Provincial winners seeded,you won't avoid pointless rematches so what about the 8 provincial finalists all seeded and try to mix it up as far as possible with one team from each Province in as many pools as possible. With the qualifiers gone most counties will still play more Championship games than they do as present. Even Provincial winners will have to play at least three and possibly four more games than at present to win an All Ireland. And here I think we get to the nub of the issue. The cynic in me thinks this is a cunning plan to tackle Dublin (and t a lesser extent Kerry and Mayo) dominance. But it won't work. As I have said before no matter how you change the system the best teams will always come to the top. And in COMPETITIVE sport do we really want it any other way?
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 1, 2015 19:38:51 GMT
All we need is the top 6 playing each other in June and july in a league basis...home and away. Let the top two play in the All Ireland. Its mad that Kerry didn't play Mayo in 2015 or Kerry didn't play Dublin in 2014.
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Post by sullyschoice on Oct 1, 2015 22:47:52 GMT
I quite like the format, in that you will get plenty of games against novel opposition. But the bottom seeded teams will get the sh1te kicked out of them by more teams each year. It doesnt address a need for a second tier competition for the weaker counties.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Oct 1, 2015 23:42:53 GMT
I'd personally prioritize rules, governance and adherence of said rules. I mean what chance has a proposal got when a direct order of a punishment is all but scoffed at and then consistently ignored by an overruling.
Sure tis fiascolitics.
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Post by LodenVor on Oct 2, 2015 16:46:08 GMT
It's an interesting enough proposal, but the distances have me worried. Given the number of counties in the country that play in the SFC, there's a bit more than a 5:1 probability that Kerry (or Cork, Limerick, Clare, Tipp and Waterford) would be drawn against a team from outside Munster. It's a long time since I did maths, but that means it's probable that Kerry wouldn't be drawn against a Munster team at all across the three matches. In which case, if you're from Tralee, you're talking about a round trip of at the very least 1,241 km (assuming we get drawn with the closest footballing counties to Munster, those being Laois, Offaly and Galway and those games are played in Portlaoise, Tullamore and Galway). And that's the probable minimum distance from Tralee. Never mind if you're coming from Killarney or further afield, e.g. Sneem or Kenmare, and certainly never mind our poor neighbours in Clonakilty, Skibb and so on. If we're lucky, we then get to travel to Croke Park for the same number of games as we can hope for right now anyway, as well as the same number of league and provincial trips if we're successful (minus the removed league semi and final matches). Personally, I love watching Kerry play, but that's a lot of extra mileage for players and fans alike, and I imagine it'll have some impact on attendance figures for our games. Obviously, if my numbers are wrong, apologies. As I said, the old maths aren't the best these days. Awful whingey first post, eh?
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 2, 2015 17:38:53 GMT
It still doesn't address the fact that the inter county season is too long. The AI final is planned 2 weeks earlier than normal. Big deal. The club season would continue to be an afterthought. Then again, the GPA never did care about the ordinary club player.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 2, 2015 18:34:53 GMT
That can't be addressed while we slavishly hold on to the notion of the lob sided provincial championships of uneven numbers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:35:28 GMT
This proposal adds more games for everyone but not enough else. The provincial championships will be even more meaningless. The champions league format seems pointless. You can lose two of your three games and still qualify for the next stage.
In fact you could lose three games in the championship and still win the All Ireland.
The continuation of the provincial championship under this format, the increase in number of games and the lack of a 2nd tier competition means that people would become even more apathetic.
On the plus side, the condensing of the intercounty season and linking league to championship would all represent major improvements.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 3, 2015 6:50:51 GMT
I don't like this proposal at all but we have to respect that this has come from the players.
While I am a massive advocate of McGuinness model, why doesn't the GAA do baby steps? At least have eight teams in each of the provincials for a start. New York could play the AI champs or the All Stars.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Oct 3, 2015 17:17:24 GMT
I'd personally prioritize rules, governance and adherence of said rules. I mean what chance has a proposal got when a direct order of a punishment is all but scoffed at and then consistently ignored by an overruling. Sure tis fiascolitics. I agree.
And with the fitness levels around now. I would look at the 13 a side as well.
Would certainly open up the game and get rid of a lot of the scrums.
Would also help the referees.
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 4, 2015 11:12:53 GMT
I certainly think 13-a-side should be trialed in the NFL perhaps.
I am a proponent of a new Championship structure. Mainly the McGuinness one with a few tweaks. What I would like to see underpinning any proposals is for the GAA to adapt a number of guiding principles, including the following:
1) A functioning disciplinary system 2) Regular games for county players, i.e. a better balance between training and games 3) Regular games for club players. County Championships to all be completed before the business end of the Inter-County season.
I firmly believe that all County Finals should be done and dusted by 1 July. The Provincial and AI Club Championships should perhaps move to a system where winning your County Championship qualifies you for the following season's club championship.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 4, 2015 12:52:37 GMT
I certainly think 13-a-side should be trialed in the NFL perhaps. I'd go further, and trial 11 a side. The game has become like rugby with too many bodies and no room to swing a cat. Backwards, sidewards, running into walls of players. Take 8 players out of the equation and it leaves a hell of a lot more room, even with blanket defences.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 5, 2015 10:14:35 GMT
Interesting. The provincial championshis have a pretty tenuous link to the subsequent stages which us not necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately it is just a champions league type format with only eight teams knocked out. Will it make the early stages of the year any better? I am not sure it will. They cant really be any worse than they are at the early stages. Every year, Munster gets going at the beginning of july when cork and kerry meet. Leinster and connaught have turned into awful competitions in terms of excitement. Ulster is the only province that is truly competitive right through the early summer, by virtue of the fact that there are many mediocre teams who are on the same level playing each other as much as anything else. This is worth a try. Worst case scenario is that it doesnt work and we go back to the old way. But if there is an extra buck in it for the GAA, it will stick no question. I cant help feeling that there is a balance lacking in the championship. On the one hand there are teams who play very often against stronger teams. On the other there are teams who dont play enough and are handicapped by lack of meaningful championship action when it comes to the crunch later in the year. There must be some answer to all of this. At least when all teams are facing the same challenges outlined above, neither of the advantages or disadvantages listed above come into play.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 5, 2015 13:39:51 GMT
All sounds complicated and a League linked to the Championship heavy's the load and lengthens the journey for amateur sportsmen who have to have day jobs, if they are lucky enough.
Here's a simple solution; 1. League stays as it is, useful for blooding new recruits, and resting and repairing veterans. 2. Losers at various stages in the provinces grouped together for separate All Ireland Competition. It would be compatible with as much as the backdoor system as we wanted to keep and Dropout would be determined by the level at which a County has no hope of Sam success in a given year. So say all 1st and 2nd Round losers are automatically enter say a Dermot Earley All Ireland Competition of say 4 x 2 counties. 3rd and 4th Round losers go into say a Paidí O'Shea All Ireland Competition and so on. This also eliminates Longford v Dublin scenarios and improves the standard with more competitive games as teams are more closely matched and the Knockout consequence is somewhat restored. Critically it ensures that any team in any given year can win Sam, so breakthroughs are accommodated and that dream at the outset is preserved, while it also stops good money going after bad when weak teams face prevailing stalwarts. So you'd have more games of say Longford v Louth, Leitrim v say Limerick, etc while good teams would only meet each other as they progress. So you'd have 4 AI Final competitions and we know how important it was for Kerry Hurlers to win a Christy Ring this year. That only a few teams will win Sam shouldn't mean others never get any silverware in their careers.
This structure even opens the possibility of an enhancement to the later stage back door as Knockouts would be over sooner; could the winners of Knockout competitions re-enter through the backdoor, i.e. 2nd chance of a Breakthrough team, maybe a team that found it's form from playing equally matched opponents progressively, Tyrone winning Sam through 10 backdoor games is a good example.
If the same was applied to Minors it would enable the GAA to compete better with other codes.
I have always thought of this as the solution and it is lower risk than other proposals that are bound to have unintended consequences and teething issues.
Over to mo chairde GAA for analysis!!
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 5, 2015 16:01:48 GMT
Brolly made a good point on TSG a while ago. He said if you were starting out to create a c'ship format, the current one (provincial) would be the last one you'd think of.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2015 16:06:12 GMT
Good piece from Brolly in yesterdays Indo. Pity he doesn't write like that all the time and leave out the bull.
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 5, 2015 16:48:25 GMT
Good piece from Brolly in yesterdays Indo. Pity he doesn't write like that all the time and leave out the bull. Yes, I thought he made good points re the flags and anthem issue.
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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 5, 2015 18:58:36 GMT
Brolly made a good point on TSG a while ago. He said if you were starting out to create a c'ship format, the current one (provincial) would be the last one you'd think of. That's only true with the benefit of hindsight. When it all began in the late 19th Century the Provinces were the logical building blocks. Practically the same thing happened in Rugby. But it's much easier to start something than it is to stop it once it becomes established.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2015 19:41:21 GMT
Brolly made a good point on TSG a while ago. He said if you were starting out to create a c'ship format, the current one (provincial) would be the last one you'd think of. That's only true with the benefit of hindsight. When it all began in the late 19th Century the Provinces were the logical building blocks. Practically the same thing happened in Rugby. But it's much easier to start something than it is to stop it once it becomes established. I find it totally staggering that we are still so attached to historical boundaries in 2015. What does it matter if Kerry win the Muster championship or the Southern championship or the Western championship? It is a small mindset shift that would transform the fixtures lists at club and county level.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 5, 2015 21:16:20 GMT
I find it totally staggering that we are still so attached to historical boundaries in 2015. Are you suggesting we abandon the county system?
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 5, 2015 23:30:45 GMT
'Brolly says it would be the last system you would think of' means nothing and is typical of his nit picking without looking at the full picture. I am the last man on earth to resist change but one also has to be realistic; what do we do, grade all players and divide the GAA jurisdiction into 32 equal shares, then do that annually?
Counties and provinces, and their supporters won't be forced to change so we alleviate inequality by first looking at why there is there such a gulf between counties.
As regards the structure I proposed above, any takers? It is simple and not as unpredictable as other ideas. Provincial finals are an institution to me and I think there is a 'careful what you wish for' about this, i.e. the current system has lots of positives and it is the warts we need to focus on. The current provincial system keeps the costs down for supporters and we don't want to let them down again like the Sky deal did, i.e home and away game attendances would struggle and they also distort results; next we would have away scores counting for more than home games and once is enough to play each team anyway.
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