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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 14:19:12 GMT
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Sept 30, 2015 14:19:12 GMT
Now that the dust has begun to settle on our 2015 campaign I wonder what people would like to see in 2016 from the Senior Team.
I would like us to set our stall out and try to win the league. Try and get as settled as team as possible if we can going into championship. I know there will always be 2 - 3 players that will rotate with each other etc. But for the last few years we have chopped and changed an awful lot in the league.
I especially if possible would like to see as least 2 of the full back line positions nailed down and the full back position if possible.
I would like to see Tommy Walsh given game time as well, maybe in the middle of the field. I think we are poor enough in the midfield sector once you go past Maher and Moran. Sheehan can do a job there but, he's not one for bringing on to track mobile midfielders. Also would likey to see Crowley given time to develop into a commanding center back.
Maybe we need to develop a system to counteract attacking corner backs etc that force the likes of James and Colm to spend as much time in their own half as the oppositions. We also meed to find a way to engineer space consistently against the blanket defense or sweeper.
Looking at it this way, James scored a point against Cork when they funneled back, Nothing in the final against Donegal last year, I don't think he scored much against Tyrone either this year form play. I would like to see Steven O'Brien developed into a more rounded forward as well. At the moment if you can match him for pace you can negate him.
Also if Donaghy does stay on (which i think he will) we need to develop a system hat maximise the ball into him, not just launching it from anywhere into him.
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 15:14:04 GMT
Post by kerrygold on Sept 30, 2015 15:14:04 GMT
We'll be looking for something explosive from Kerry in the Capital in 2016, given the year that is in it.
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 15:16:54 GMT
Post by buck02 on Sept 30, 2015 15:16:54 GMT
Depending on how the u21s go, I would be thinking of give some game time in the league to the likes of Shane Ryan, Brian Begley, Tom Sullivan, Barry O Sullivan, Cormac Coffey and Mathew Flaherty. Others like Conor Keane also spring to mind. With all due respect, there were a number of players on the panel and extended panel for the All Ireland final that are not going to make the grade at this stage. Some of last years minors need to begin to be blooded with a view to the next 2 or 3 years.
Making it to the final of the u21s and winning a Munster and All Ireland are achievable in 2016. Dublin are coming off 3 wins in 5 years and may be vulnerable next year, like Tyrone always were the year after they won it. Yesterdays breaking news in Mayo means its all or nothing for them next year - and we know how they handle situations like that. Other than that its hard to see anybody else winning it.
Kerry are close, a few improvements here and there and it can be a good year again.
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Deleted
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 15:40:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2015 15:40:43 GMT
Kealy had a great year and with Kelly we have decent Keepers although I would like to see Shane Murphy get a game. We need to find a full back. I mean we have not a settled no.3 sine Mike McCarthy. O'Mahony and Marc have done ok over the years but they are 35. Mark Griffin has not got the job done. If he did he would be the full back by now.Jack Maguire should get a look in the league.David Culhane and Gavin Crowley are others that could get a look in the full back line. We need youth and pace in the backs and it is time to look at Cormac Coffey in the half back line. He is young but he needs to be looked at later in the year. U21s will come first.Maybe give Mark Griffin a look at no.6 I dunno.Jack Sherwood has been injured a lot and maybe this year he will get a run. maybe they can find a back in the County Championship. Barry O'Sullivan is a great prospect but he will be with the u21s. Tommy Walsh has to get a look in Midfield in the league. Don't know if James Walsh is worth a look. You can always use a new forward. Gavin O'Grady, Thomas Hickey, Conor Keane, Killian Spillane, possibly Conor Cox. They need to look at players. Young new players.
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 17:05:01 GMT
Post by greengold35 on Sept 30, 2015 17:05:01 GMT
We need an infusion of new blood in the squad but also on our back room team; Cormac Coffey an option, Barra O'Suilleabhain has the potential; these guys will be on our U-21s , so we might not get to blood them in the league- Tommy Walsh also must be given an opportunity- this season he was forgotten about- his ability not in doubt, professional athlete for 5 years, all he needed was match time- believe that it was 125 days between his last full game for Rahillys in the championship & his appearance last week end in the same competition- this is a farce. On the management team, I believe that Mikey is contemplating not being involved next season- if so we must replace him with some one with similar experience- we need a strong character!
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 21:38:47 GMT
Post by Mickmack on Sept 30, 2015 21:38:47 GMT
Darren kicked two great points from 45 yards in the final and Lyne kicked another. We need to be kicking 7 or 8 to be competitive. We wont always be able to work points from close in like against Tyrone. The better defences wont allow that. That's the one main thing that we need in 2016. 9 points in total in the 2014 and 2015 finals and 8 points v Dublin in 2013 isn't good enough. The goals wont always come.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 21:44:41 GMT
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Post by fitz on Sept 30, 2015 21:44:41 GMT
Depending on how the u21s go, I would be thinking of give some game time in the league to the likes of Shane Ryan, Brian Begley, Tom Sullivan, Barry O Sullivan, Cormac Coffey and Mathew Flaherty. Others like Conor Keane also spring to mind. With all due respect, there were a number of players on the panel and extended panel for the All Ireland final that are not going to make the grade at this stage. Some of last years minors need to begin to be blooded with a view to the next 2 or 3 years. Making it to the final of the u21s and winning a Munster and All Ireland are achievable in 2016. Dublin are coming off 3 wins in 5 years and may be vulnerable next year, like Tyrone always were the year after they won it. Yesterdays breaking news in Mayo means its all or nothing for them next year - and we know how they handle situations like that. Other than that its hard to see anybody else winning it. Kerry are close, a few improvements here and there and it can be a good year again. It's never all or nothing with Mayo Buck, it's never All, but always nothing
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fitz
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 22:01:42 GMT
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Post by fitz on Sept 30, 2015 22:01:42 GMT
Darren kicked two great points from 45 yards in the final and Lyne kicked another. We need to be kicking 7 or 8 to be competitive. We wont always be able to work points from close in like against Tyrone. The better defences wont allow that. That's the one main thing that we need in 2016. 9 points in total in the 2014 and 2015 finals and 8 points v Dublin in 2013 isn't good enough. The goals wont always come. 11 points in 2013 Mick. Our game against the better teams has become too defensive. Certainly by sacrificing our best forwards, some of the best in the game to bolster a system to prevent us losing. We have travelled too far, our sharpest spears are blunting for sake of more shields. After the collapse of form by most players this was another layer of accession toward the surrendering of the title. A better formula needed to use our forwards predominantly for forward play, without extending the M50 through the spine our defence. Dublin haver never retreated to a plan other than "win the game". They've put in the extra protection layers but their attack is still bubbling with potency. Some analysis of their entire 2015 game set would not be time badly spent.
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inchperfect
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Posts: 272
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2016??
Sept 30, 2015 22:15:02 GMT
Post by inchperfect on Sept 30, 2015 22:15:02 GMT
In terms of the squad for 2016...
- Talk Cooper around to staying. As long as we're a better team with him in the XV than without him in it he should be in our set-up.
- Unearth players for the full-back line. We're thin there as it stands with Paul Murphy and Fionn Fitzgerald regularly playing in the corner despite being more suited to the wing. This problem will be made even worse by the retirements of Marc and Aidan which will surely happen. Then Shane Enright will be the only natural full back line member we've got who's good enough.
- Tommy Walsh will surely see more action next year. I don't think Donaghy is finished yet but he could step aside and let Tommy grow back into the #14 jersey. I'd be happy to see him play at centre forward or midfield also.
- I remember how good Jack Savage was in the minors 2 years ago. Anyone know how he's progressed since? Surely can't be far off the panel?
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Post by greengold35 on Oct 1, 2015 9:25:18 GMT
Jack Savage is playing very well at the moment despite a recent bout of glandular fever; he was one of the stars on the night when Rahillys won the county U-21 , kicking 7 points ; he was not considered fit enough for Strand Rd last week end for 60 mins but came on in the 2nd half & kicked 5 points( vs Milltown/Castlemaine); will probably captain the U-21s next year.
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2016??
Oct 8, 2015 12:02:56 GMT
Post by onlykerry on Oct 8, 2015 12:02:56 GMT
Draw for the 2016 senior champioship live on RTE2 on October 15th Munster draw for minor, u21 & junior scheduled for October 22nd. Then the planning can begin.....
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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2016??
Oct 8, 2015 14:56:57 GMT
Post by fitz on Oct 8, 2015 14:56:57 GMT
In terms of the squad for 2016... - Talk Cooper around to staying. As long as we're a better team with him in the XV than without him in it he should be in our set-up. - Unearth players for the full-back line. We're thin there as it stands with Paul Murphy and Fionn Fitzgerald regularly playing in the corner despite being more suited to the wing. This problem will be made even worse by the retirements of Marc and Aidan which will surely happen. Then Shane Enright will be the only natural full back line member we've got who's good enough. - Tommy Walsh will surely see more action next year. I don't think Donaghy is finished yet but he could step aside and let Tommy grow back into the #14 jersey. I'd be happy to see him play at centre forward or midfield also. - I remember how good Jack Savage was in the minors 2 years ago. Anyone know how he's progressed since? Surely can't be far off the panel? Will Pa Kilkenny not be kicking on, indifferent league this year, but another year etc..?
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inchperfect
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No longer active member.
Posts: 272
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2016??
Oct 8, 2015 22:08:32 GMT
Post by inchperfect on Oct 8, 2015 22:08:32 GMT
Will Pa Kilkenny not be kicking on, indifferent league this year, but another year etc..? Possibly, I have only seen him a few times for Kerry & Mid Kerry but my impression was that like Fionn Fitzgerald and Paul Murphy his natural position is more wing than corner back but like I said I haven't seen a whole pile of him. We need to produce another Enright or two.
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Jigz84
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Posts: 2,017
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2016??
Oct 9, 2015 15:31:02 GMT
Post by Jigz84 on Oct 9, 2015 15:31:02 GMT
I'd like to see a good rattle at the League this year, I think it's needed.
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peanuts
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Posts: 1,850
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2016??
Oct 12, 2015 18:30:35 GMT
Post by peanuts on Oct 12, 2015 18:30:35 GMT
Padraic Corcoran confirmed as trainer and selector for next year with Liam Hassett added as an additional selector along with Mikey and Diarmaid.
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2016??
Oct 12, 2015 18:30:37 GMT
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Post by greengold35 on Oct 12, 2015 18:30:37 GMT
Padraig Corcoran replaces Cian O'Neill as trainer/selector with Liam Hassett added as a selector with Murph & Mikey continuing .
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Deleted
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2016??
Oct 12, 2015 19:05:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 19:05:48 GMT
Evolution rather than revolution seems to be the objective here which makes sense. What has Liam hasset being doing on the coaching side of things?
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2016??
Oct 12, 2015 20:24:31 GMT
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Post by wayupnorth on Oct 12, 2015 20:24:31 GMT
Padraig Corcoran replaces Cian O'Neill as trainer/selector with Liam Hassett added as a selector with Murph & Mikey continuing . Bit of a moment of panic when the website described Murph and Mikey as "outgoing" selectors. Listen up County Board: Cian is outgoing the others are staying. If two of last year's selectors are staying on for another year they're not outgoing anywhere!
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 13:54:47 GMT
Post by mafi97 on Oct 13, 2015 13:54:47 GMT
Padraic Corcoran confirmed as trainer and selector for next year with Liam Hassett added as an additional selector along with Mikey and Diarmaid. For the avoidance of doubt, let me state that I don't know the first thing about Padraic Corcoran - so my remarks should not be interpreted as some sort of sly dig. Over the period of Brian Cody's reign in Kilkenny, he has consistently freshened up his backroom team - regardless of victory or defeat. The one thing he does not change is his fitness guy. They come and go, but Michael Dempsey is the constant. I would hazard a guess that when Michael Dempsey decides to hand in his cards, that Brian Cody will bring the curtain down on his glorious era. The spotlight is always on the artistry of these Kilkenny hurlers - but their first requirement is to win their own ball. And that is the minimum physical requirement. If a player did not have the required physical approach, he either developed that side of his offering, or it was a case of "next please". I give you one Eddie Brennan. I could also give you many other classy hurlers who had their scintillating moment in the Kilkenny sun - but it would not be enough for the Cody/Dempsey school. In this year's Hurling Final, there were 19 "rucks". Kilkenny won 18 of them. It has become a commonplace for Kerry footballers to give up possession (too easily). I think that if Brian Cody came down and cast his beady eye on some of our performances, that he would have a number of the miscreants in for a little chat and an ultimatum. Last year I made the point that a certain number of players keep repeating the same mistakes. I had seven particular players in mind. This year, three of those had eliminated these costly mistakes, completely. The other four?? - still went on their merry way. I don't particularly buy into Joe Schmidt's philosophy of "no mistakes" - I think it is too stultifying. My view would be to "make new mistakes" - but, for God's sake don't keep repeating old mistakes. It is not fair to compare any particular player to some one like Tom Long. But Tom Long would cycle down Green Street in Dingle, in his birthday suit with a long rose stem held in his teeth, before he would give a ball away. They can't all be Tom Longs but he should be the template. (In my mind's eye, I can see Cody watching Long play - and a furtive smile escapes across Cody's stern facade). So I wish Padraic Corcoran all the success in the world - and I hope in ten years time to be here extolling his virtues as our very own Michael Dempsey. Never having coached or managed even an Under 8 team, I am uniquely qualified to proffer the best of hurler on the ditch advice - we need to go back to basics. We need to do whatever is required to gain possession and hold possession. That's all. We have all the other bits. We have the artistry, we have the skills, we have the tradition. P.S. I am waiting expectantly for the most important appointment to the backroom team. Not sure of the job title, but who will be guy that ensures that all the players are using the right footwear for the conditions on any given day. Having gone back and watched the video twice (for my sins) in the last few days, I know that if all the players had the right footwear, we would have won that Final. (If you don't believe me - rewatch it with the sound turned off). One thing is certain - some players slipped all over the place, some didn't. Maybe it is a blacksmith we should be adding to the backroom team.
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Post by surfdude62 on Oct 13, 2015 14:10:03 GMT
Lads and lassies if, and this is a big IF, Rathmore were to win the Co.Championship could we see Aidan O'Mahony staying on for one last hurrah as Kerry captain? Thoughts??
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 14:44:34 GMT
Post by Jigz84 on Oct 13, 2015 14:44:34 GMT
Lads and lassies if, and this is a big IF, Rathmore were to win the Co.Championship could we see Aidan O'Mahony staying on for one last hurrah as Kerry captain? Thoughts?? I think Paul Murphy might have something to say about that
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 15:25:23 GMT
Post by fitz on Oct 13, 2015 15:25:23 GMT
Padraic Corcoran confirmed as trainer and selector for next year with Liam Hassett added as an additional selector along with Mikey and Diarmaid. For the avoidance of doubt, let me state that I don't know the first thing about Padraic Corcoran - so my remarks should not be interpreted as some sort of sly dig. Over the period of Brian Cody's reign in Kilkenny, he has consistently freshened up his backroom team - regardless of victory or defeat. The one thing he does not change is his fitness guy. They come and go, but Michael Dempsey is the constant. I would hazard a guess that when Michael Dempsey decides to hand in his cards, that Brian Cody will bring the curtain down on his glorious era. The spotlight is always on the artistry of these Kilkenny hurlers - but their first requirement is to win their own ball. And that is the minimum physical requirement. If a player did not have the required physical approach, he either developed that side of his offering, or it was a case of "next please". I give you one Eddie Brennan. I could also give you many other classy hurlers who had their scintillating moment in the Kilkenny sun - but it would not be enough for the Cody/Dempsey school. In this year's Hurling Final, there were 19 "rucks". Kilkenny won 18 of them. It has become a commonplace for Kerry footballers to give up possession (too easily). I think that if Brian Cody came down and cast his beady eye on some of our performances, that he would have a number of the miscreants in for a little chat and an ultimatum. Last year I made the point that a certain number of players keep repeating the same mistakes. I had seven particular players in mind. This year, three of those had eliminated these costly mistakes, completely. The other four?? - still went on their merry way. I don't particularly buy into Joe Schmidt's philosophy of "no mistakes" - I think it is too stultifying. My view would be to "make new mistakes" - but, for God's sake don't keep repeating old mistakes. It is not fair to compare any particular player to some one like Tom Long. But Tom Long would cycle down Green Street in Dingle, in his birthday suit with a long rose stem held in his teeth, before he would give a ball away. They can't all be Tom Longs but he should be the template. (In my mind's eye, I can see Cody watching Long play - and a furtive smile escapes across Cody's stern facade). So I wish Padraic Corcoran all the success in the world - and I hope in ten years time to be here extolling his virtues as our very own Michael Dempsey. Never having coached or managed even an Under 8 team, I am uniquely qualified to proffer the best of hurler on the ditch advice - we need to go back to basics. We need to do whatever is required to gain possession and hold possession. That's all. We have all the other bits. We have the artistry, we have the skills, we have the tradition. P.S. I am waiting expectantly for the most important appointment to the backroom team. Not sure of the job title, but who will be guy that ensures that all the players are using the right footwear for the conditions on any given day. Having gone back and watched the video twice (for my sins) in the last few days, I know that if all the players had the right footwear, we would have won that Final. (If you don't believe me - rewatch it with the sound turned off). One thing is certain - some players slipped all over the place, some didn't. Maybe it is a blacksmith we should be adding to the backroom team. Appreciate a lot of your sentiments but the point on Michael Dempsey and the practicalities is moot in that, what's the solution ? Cian is still our trainer? We had/have no control on that. I think if your talking about 7 players you may as well call them and put forth the analysis, otherwise we simply don't get the point. Maybe we did slip more than Dublin but it would have taken more than better boots to have won that game, so if both sets of players had the same quality of boots to start with, Kerry would have won? I don't see that. I would agree that analysing the Kilkenny model, its mechanics and its continual evolution is no bad exercise. I sense they focus much more on their own game than the opposition and that they have historically a deeper well of self-belief. Why ? They have lost less finals than us in the last 15 years. In 2012 and 2015 Galway out hurled them in the first half, but Kilkenny hung in and found the characters in the second half to overcome and win. That said, I think this is an area that has grown considerably since Eamonn has taken over and we are a second half team. Even being outplayed we did outscore Dublin in second half. I think Kilkenny have in comparison to Kerry and relative to their sport a stronger panel and have greater numbers of the best players. We're progressing even with the disappointment of this year's final, we overcame one big challenge defeating Tyrone and the historical baggage that came with it, a lot of lads delivered when the fan was being splattered - Donnacha/Darran/Maher/Paul Geaney are four standouts among many more. Now the Dubs have to be mastered, with both Mayo/Tyrone and still Donegal capable of throwing in rogue waves on any given day.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 13, 2015 17:10:41 GMT
For the avoidance of doubt, let me state that I don't know the first thing about Padraic Corcoran - so my remarks should not be interpreted as some sort of sly dig. Over the period of Brian Cody's reign in Kilkenny, he has consistently freshened up his backroom team - regardless of victory or defeat. The one thing he does not change is his fitness guy. They come and go, but Michael Dempsey is the constant. I would hazard a guess that when Michael Dempsey decides to hand in his cards, that Brian Cody will bring the curtain down on his glorious era. The spotlight is always on the artistry of these Kilkenny hurlers - but their first requirement is to win their own ball. And that is the minimum physical requirement. If a player did not have the required physical approach, he either developed that side of his offering, or it was a case of "next please". I give you one Eddie Brennan. I could also give you many other classy hurlers who had their scintillating moment in the Kilkenny sun - but it would not be enough for the Cody/Dempsey school. In this year's Hurling Final, there were 19 "rucks". Kilkenny won 18 of them. It has become a commonplace for Kerry footballers to give up possession (too easily). I think that if Brian Cody came down and cast his beady eye on some of our performances, that he would have a number of the miscreants in for a little chat and an ultimatum. Last year I made the point that a certain number of players keep repeating the same mistakes. I had seven particular players in mind. This year, three of those had eliminated these costly mistakes, completely. The other four?? - still went on their merry way. I don't particularly buy into Joe Schmidt's philosophy of "no mistakes" - I think it is too stultifying. My view would be to "make new mistakes" - but, for God's sake don't keep repeating old mistakes. It is not fair to compare any particular player to some one like Tom Long. But Tom Long would cycle down Green Street in Dingle, in his birthday suit with a long rose stem held in his teeth, before he would give a ball away. They can't all be Tom Longs but he should be the template. (In my mind's eye, I can see Cody watching Long play - and a furtive smile escapes across Cody's stern facade). So I wish Padraic Corcoran all the success in the world - and I hope in ten years time to be here extolling his virtues as our very own Michael Dempsey. Never having coached or managed even an Under 8 team, I am uniquely qualified to proffer the best of hurler on the ditch advice - we need to go back to basics. We need to do whatever is required to gain possession and hold possession. That's all. We have all the other bits. We have the artistry, we have the skills, we have the tradition. P.S. I am waiting expectantly for the most important appointment to the backroom team. Not sure of the job title, but who will be guy that ensures that all the players are using the right footwear for the conditions on any given day. Having gone back and watched the video twice (for my sins) in the last few days, I know that if all the players had the right footwear, we would have won that Final. (If you don't believe me - rewatch it with the sound turned off). One thing is certain - some players slipped all over the place, some didn't. Maybe it is a blacksmith we should be adding to the backroom team. Appreciate a lot of your sentiments but the point on Michael Dempsey and the practicalities is moot in that, what's the solution ? Cian is still our trainer? We had/have no control on that. I think if your talking about 7 players you may as well call them and put forth the analysis, otherwise we simply don't get the point. Maybe we did slip more than Dublin but it would have taken more than better boots to have won that game, so if both sets of players had the same quality of boots to start with, Kerry would have won? I don't see that. I would agree that analysing the Kilkenny model, its mechanics and its continual evolution is no bad exercise. I sense they focus much more on their own game than the opposition and that they have historically a deeper well of self-belief. Why ? They have lost less finals than us in the last 15 years. In 2012 and 2015 Galway out hurled them in the first half, but Kilkenny hung in and found the characters in the second half to overcome and win. That said, I think this is an area that has grown considerably since Eamonn has taken over and we are a second half team. Even being outplayed we did outscore Dublin in second half. I think Kilkenny have in comparison to Kerry and relative to their sport a stronger panel and have greater numbers of the best players. We're progressing even with the disappointment of this year's final, we overcame one big challenge defeating Tyrone and the historical baggage that came with it, a lot of lads delivered when the fan was being splattered - Donnacha/Darran/Maher/Paul Geaney are four standouts among many more. Now the Dubs have to be mastered, with both Mayo/Tyrone and still Donegal capable of throwing in rogue waves on any given day. I don't think that comparison has any relevance to Kerry. Kilkenny are a piranha fish living in a bowl with tadpoles. Occasionally they come across a frog and have, to temporarily, swallow a little harder. Tipp and Galway have been flaky while Cork have gone AWOL for the last 10 years. Kerry have lived in a jungle with Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Dublin, Cork, Galway and Mayo/Meath to a lesser degree. There is no comparison in my opinion. Kilkenny have never had to deal with the aggression and new tactics - new way of playing the game - that the Ulster football counties have brought to the table. In fact, I'd consider Kerry's stats over the past 15 years as more impressive than Kilkennys.
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 18:27:59 GMT
Post by Mickmack on Oct 13, 2015 18:27:59 GMT
Dublin HAD to win this final of 2015.
Kerry did better than all recent winners to reach the final of 2015.
Kerry were the second best team of 2012, 2013 and also probably 2015 although Mayo may disagree about 2015.
A lot of these Kerry players have played a lot of high octane ball in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015.
Dublin didn't show up in 2012 and 2014. Donegal didn't show up in 2013 or 2015.
Maybe we were simply expecting too much of these Kerry players in 2015.
That KK won the 2015 hurling final is an indictment of the others. The Galway management were daft in the 2012 final and 2015 in the second half when GALWAY consistently lamped puckouts down on a dominant KK half back line when the option of the short puckout was there for them as KK had retreated. In the semi final v Tipp they left the fullback exposed against Callanan even after he had score three goals.
MAFI is right about retaining possession... too many Dublin scores came from that but Dublin were sharp after the two Mayo games just like Kerry were in 2014 after the two Mayo games
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 21:15:52 GMT
Post by mafi97 on Oct 13, 2015 21:15:52 GMT
Appreciate a lot of your sentiments but the point on Michael Dempsey and the practicalities is moot in that, what's the solution ? Cian is still our trainer? We had/have no control on that. I think if your talking about 7 players you may as well call them and put forth the analysis, otherwise we simply don't get the point. Maybe we did slip more than Dublin but it would have taken more than better boots to have won that game, so if both sets of players had the same quality of boots to start with, Kerry would have won? I don't see that. I would agree that analysing the Kilkenny model, its mechanics and its continual evolution is no bad exercise. I sense they focus much more on their own game than the opposition and that they have historically a deeper well of self-belief. Why ? They have lost less finals than us in the last 15 years. In 2012 and 2015 Galway out hurled them in the first half, but Kilkenny hung in and found the characters in the second half to overcome and win. That said, I think this is an area that has grown considerably since Eamonn has taken over and we are a second half team. Even being outplayed we did outscore Dublin in second half. I think Kilkenny have in comparison to Kerry and relative to their sport a stronger panel and have greater numbers of the best players. We're progressing even with the disappointment of this year's final, we overcame one big challenge defeating Tyrone and the historical baggage that came with it, a lot of lads delivered when the fan was being splattered - Donnacha/Darran/Maher/Paul Geaney are four standouts among many more. Now the Dubs have to be mastered, with both Mayo/Tyrone and still Donegal capable of throwing in rogue waves on any given day. I don't think that comparison has any relevance to Kerry. Kilkenny are a piranha fish living in a bowl with tadpoles. Occasionally they come across a frog and have, to temporarily, swallow a little harder. Tipp and Galway have been flaky while Cork have gone AWOL for the last 10 years. Kerry have lived in a jungle with Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Dublin, Cork, Galway and Mayo/Meath to a lesser degree. There is no comparison in my opinion. Kilkenny have never had to deal with the aggression and new tactics - new way of playing the game - that the Ulster football counties have brought to the table. In fact, I'd consider Kerry's stats over the past 15 years as more impressive than Kilkennys.
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 21:39:00 GMT
Post by mafi97 on Oct 13, 2015 21:39:00 GMT
I don't think that comparison has any relevance to Kerry. Kilkenny are a piranha fish living in a bowl with tadpoles. Occasionally they come across a frog and have, to temporarily, swallow a little harder. Tipp and Galway have been flaky while Cork have gone AWOL for the last 10 years. Kerry have lived in a jungle with Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Dublin, Cork, Galway and Mayo/Meath to a lesser degree. There is no comparison in my opinion. Kilkenny have never had to deal with the aggression and new tactics - new way of playing the game - that the Ulster football counties have brought to the table. In fact, I'd consider Kerry's stats over the past 15 years as more impressive than Kilkennys. [/quote To fitzwop and Kerrygold: I don't know what happened there. I had penned a response to your various points - but it appears to disappeared into the ether. A classic case of the dog ate my homework. I just don't have time to regurgitate my thoughts - but will re-visit at a later stage. To fitzwop: You wanted me to call out the seven players who I saw repeating the same mistakes. My original point last year was made in the context that invariably we only ever lose by a single score. The seven come from the wider panel and TBH I don't engage in naming specific players in relation to their shortcomings. There is a backroom team there to do that. The only quick point I would make is that over the past number of years a particular player gifted the opposition a point or two in EVERY game by giving the ref no option but to award a free in the scoring zone. This year, we did not concede one score from that source. Have to cut and run.
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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2016??
Oct 13, 2015 21:48:47 GMT
Post by fitz on Oct 13, 2015 21:48:47 GMT
Kilkenny - 11 wins in 16 years 2000, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 - 68% We've won 6 (00,04,06,07,09,14) from 11 (5 losses - 02,05,08,11,15) final appearances in the same period 55%.
Yes, we had tough challenges from all of the teams you mention, but we didn't learn lessons and improve as swiftly as Kilkenny after they had their lost finals. Great 04/05 Cork team. Kilkenny thrashed them in 06. Fine Tipp team of 09/10 - thrashed them in 2011.
Kilkenny have questions to answer dealing with aggression? I've not seen Kilkenny lose a game in the last 15 years by predominantly being bullied. They set the terms for aggression and can play it any way you want. The finals they lost they were out-hurled.
The piranha analogy is a little unworthy of the unending year in-out hunger and ruthlessness they deliver. As piranha's they don't grow fat, feasting river grapes, they are lean and mean every year no matter whose in the way, and that's what I believe we can learn from.
I'm not a Kilkenny fan, I want them beat every year probably for the same reason many non-Kerry folks want Kerry beat, but I do admire them in a way that reaps no pleasure. That second half this year against Galway was as cold blooded a slaying of a team as I've seen, they outfought, tackled, passed and scored Galway for the entire 35 mins. There was no let up, none. One thought Galway will have a patch...no patch. I was sick by the end of it, dreams of the underdog finally making it, bludgeoned.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 14, 2015 8:09:05 GMT
Kilkenny - 11 wins in 16 years 2000, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 - 68% We've won 6 (00,04,06,07,09,14) from 11 (5 losses - 02,05,08,11,15) final appearances in the same period 55%. Yes, we had tough challenges from all of the teams you mention, but we didn't learn lessons and improve as swiftly as Kilkenny after they had their lost finals. Great 04/05 Cork team. Kilkenny thrashed them in 06. Fine Tipp team of 09/10 - thrashed them in 2011. Kilkenny have questions to answer dealing with aggression? I've not seen Kilkenny lose a game in the last 15 years by predominantly being bullied. They set the terms for aggression and can play it any way you want. The finals they lost they were out-hurled. The piranha analogy is a little unworthy of the unending year in-out hunger and ruthlessness they deliver. As piranha's they don't grow fat, feasting river grapes, they are lean and mean every year no matter whose in the way, and that's what I believe we can learn from. I'm not a Kilkenny fan, I want them beat every year probably for the same reason many non-Kerry folks want Kerry beat, but I do admire them in a way that reaps no pleasure. That second half this year against Galway was as cold blooded a slaying of a team as I've seen, they outfought, tackled, passed and scored Galway for the entire 35 mins. There was no let up, none. One thought Galway will have a patch...no patch. I was sick by the end of it, dreams of the underdog finally making it, bludgeoned. Stats and figures are fine but the environments in which teams compete have to be properly analysed to produce real outcomes and assertions. Kerry operate in a much more competitive environment than Kilkenny do. Fact. Since 1997, Kerry have lost 5 finals, Kilkenny have lost four, not a huge difference until you factor in that Kerry have operated in a much more competitive environment.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,108
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2016??
Oct 14, 2015 11:04:53 GMT
Post by kerryexile on Oct 14, 2015 11:04:53 GMT
Padraic Corcoran confirmed as trainer and selector for next year with Liam Hassett added as an additional selector along with Mikey and Diarmaid. For the avoidance of doubt, let me state that I don't know the first thing about Padraic Corcoran - so my remarks should not be interpreted as some sort of sly dig. Over the period of Brian Cody's reign in Kilkenny, he has consistently freshened up his backroom team - regardless of victory or defeat. The one thing he does not change is his fitness guy. They come and go, but Michael Dempsey is the constant. I would hazard a guess that when Michael Dempsey decides to hand in his cards, that Brian Cody will bring the curtain down on his glorious era. The spotlight is always on the artistry of these Kilkenny hurlers - but their first requirement is to win their own ball. And that is the minimum physical requirement. If a player did not have the required physical approach, he either developed that side of his offering, or it was a case of "next please". I give you one Eddie Brennan. I could also give you many other classy hurlers who had their scintillating moment in the Kilkenny sun - but it would not be enough for the Cody/Dempsey school. In this year's Hurling Final, there were 19 "rucks". Kilkenny won 18 of them. It has become a commonplace for Kerry footballers to give up possession (too easily). I think that if Brian Cody came down and cast his beady eye on some of our performances, that he would have a number of the miscreants in for a little chat and an ultimatum. Last year I made the point that a certain number of players keep repeating the same mistakes. I had seven particular players in mind. This year, three of those had eliminated these costly mistakes, completely. The other four?? - still went on their merry way. I don't particularly buy into Joe Schmidt's philosophy of "no mistakes" - I think it is too stultifying. My view would be to "make new mistakes" - but, for God's sake don't keep repeating old mistakes. It is not fair to compare any particular player to some one like Tom Long. But Tom Long would cycle down Green Street in Dingle, in his birthday suit with a long rose stem held in his teeth, before he would give a ball away. They can't all be Tom Longs but he should be the template. (In my mind's eye, I can see Cody watching Long play - and a furtive smile escapes across Cody's stern facade). So I wish Padraic Corcoran all the success in the world - and I hope in ten years time to be here extolling his virtues as our very own Michael Dempsey. Never having coached or managed even an Under 8 team, I am uniquely qualified to proffer the best of hurler on the ditch advice - we need to go back to basics. We need to do whatever is required to gain possession and hold possession. That's all. We have all the other bits. We have the artistry, we have the skills, we have the tradition. P.S. I am waiting expectantly for the most important appointment to the backroom team. Not sure of the job title, but who will be guy that ensures that all the players are using the right footwear for the conditions on any given day. Having gone back and watched the video twice (for my sins) in the last few days, I know that if all the players had the right footwear, we would have won that Final. (If you don't believe me - rewatch it with the sound turned off). One thing is certain - some players slipped all over the place, some didn't. Maybe it is a blacksmith we should be adding to the backroom team. fenit67 said after the AIF
The forwards gave one of the worst displays by a Kerry forward unit in an All-Ireland final; it was dire and there are no positives to be taken from the exercise. Eamonn showed that he is not yet at the top table of managers when he brought on Galvin ignoring a much better option in Tommy Walsh. The use of Gooch was simply baffling. There was no life in the players, no fire in the belly. Where was the football and a hint of arrogance that marks our teams?
I am sick and tired of hearing about this system or that system; where the hell has football gone in this avalanche of gyms, systems, diets, living like monks etc.? The game is not professional so why are we being hoodwinked into thinking that it is. Play the damn game, hit hard and make the excuses later!
I totally agree with mafi97 and fenit67 and I think the more experienced contributors here will remember when we had the killer instinct.
The kernel of the whole problem is our defence – (1) the centre, and (2) the inability of some defenders to tackle. I have said this before. Not everyone agrees and sometimes on this forum after a facile win such as against Kildare, people even joke about references to it. But against the 2 or 3 best teams in the country in any year it is a serious problem. I would say that since 2000, 50% of the championships we have been eliminated from has been because of this. This is why Brolly can constantly have go at us and even this year Des Cahill said that Kerry win “handy All-Irelands”.
Because of systems used to cover the defence (bringing back forwards) and (even more worryingly) a fear of losing that has crept into the whole team, the instinct that was natural to Kerry footballers was totally missing this year.
Thats what would drive Cody absolutely mad. I think the Kerry team of 1978 / 79 would hammer any team that we've had since 2000 purely on conviction and desire to win. Suffice it to say that when Paidi wanted to stop a player going past he did not depend on sheepishly putting out his arm. The phras "Man ball and all .... " comes to mind. Sean Walsh didn't do "breaking the ball", the centre backs nick name was "Horse".
Current squads are as talented but the will to put a team to the sword is missing. They must realise (or it must be instilled in them) that they are the custodians of a unique treasure that as they say in other sports "you cannot buy". A few of my friends have been adamant during the summer that the Galvin comeback was for publicity. I heard on the radio this morning that his designer label (is that the right terminology?) will be in Dunne’s stores very soon. Mystery solved but was it worth putting the manager in a compromising position in a year where he ultimately under performed.
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Post by glengael on Oct 14, 2015 12:00:24 GMT
Current squads are as talented but the will to put a team to the sword is missing.
It certainly was missing against Dublin but I think it's unfair to generalise from that one match. Although I appreciate it was distressing to watch as a Kerry supporter for a myriad of reasons. I could write a book on all I thought was wrong that day from where I was sitting. As for the will to put a team to the sword, I saw evidence of its presence in abundance against, for example Tyrone and Cork in championship 2015, Dublin in League in Killarney, and Donegal (League 2015 or Championship 2014) and indeed against Mayo twice last August 12 months. Going farther back I could mention Limerick 04 x2, Monaghan 07, Armagh 06, Dublin 07. All of these games had to be fought and won before an All Ireland could be considered. Secondly, I don't think you can transfer a lot of the style of defence that the Golden Years team played to today's game. There would be black, red and yellow cards a plenty. On the other hand the passion and will to win which that team had must be part of any Kerry footballer's makeup. No-one can argue with that. As for handy or soft All Irelands? I have met this so often over the years I've lived outside of Kerry. It is said jokingly but many times with vitriol and real unpleasantness. I'll use the line I've always used when that old chestnut comes up. If All Irelands are so handy and soft and easy to win, then why haven't more counties won them?
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