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Post by Mickmack on Aug 25, 2015 21:16:36 GMT
some of the scores created by Kerry especially SOBs first half point was superb and they stretched Tyrone, probed and prodded till a chance came. JB is great at dropping into the pocket for a pot at a score. And Kerry were great in the final 8 mins. Sheehan stepped up and caught a crucial kickout and that led to Mahers score.
But we were left in the game by Tyrone. Will Mayo or Dublin be so kind. Or the ref?
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G_S_J
Senior Member
With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
Posts: 647
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Post by G_S_J on Aug 25, 2015 21:37:22 GMT
Hey you lot, quit this beating around the bush and be honest for once in your lives, who would we most like to beat? Dublin. It would be honour to play them in the final, what a team. We're just small town guys with a dream in comparison, but shur, we'll give it a shot and see what happens.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 25, 2015 21:49:56 GMT
Jim McGuinness
Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 08:30
Tyrone players will be thinking about Sunday’s semi-final a lot in the months to come. They did so much right in Croke Park on Sunday and had a really good chance to extend their Indian sign over Kerry. But by the end, the balance of power had shifted south.
The quality of Tyrone’s preparation was very evident on Sunday. Not many people felt that Tyrone were going to progress. From very early in the match you could see that Mickey Harte had done a lot of work on Kerry. It was particularly apparent in their defence. In the lead up to the game, I was talking about Colm Cooper, James O’Donoghue and Kieran Donaghy.
That trio was the obvious concern for the Tyrone back line. You have an unbelievable amount of skill in Cooper, height and physicality in Donaghy and then speed and agility in O’Donoghue: they have a bit of everything.
Second Captains
Key men: Aidan O’Shea offers Mayo a new attacking dimension while Cian O’Sullivan is Dublin’s designated sweeper. Photograph: InphoJim McGuinness: Five key battlegrounds that will decide Mayo’s fate against Dublin
Donegal’s Neil McGee is unable to prevent Mayo’s Aidan O’Shea breaking free to score the opening goal in last Saturday’s All-Ireland Gaelic Football quarter-final in Croke Park. Photograph: James Crombie/InphoJim McGuinness: Hungry Mayo now have new strings to their bow
A Fermanagh fan cheers on her team during Sunday’s quarter-final against Dublin in Croke Park. “They were 10 points down with 15 minutes go to and you would think they were the team winning.” Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho.Jim McGuinness: Croke Park drubbings made me fear for the game But the way Tyrone set up, with a man-to-man system and a sweeper and double-sweeper forced Kerry to play the game on their terms. Everything that came in high they dealt with very well and the sweepers knew exactly what they were doing. It was obvious the team was very well coached. Tyrone did well on the scoreboard in the first half but I felt that their attacks were laboured.
The normal off-the-shoulder support wasn’t there and there were several occasions when the Tyrone players became isolated. Had that support been more aggressive and powerful in the first half, they could have caused more problems. They reminded me of Monaghan against Tyrone in the first half.
What I was struggling to work out was that for the first Kerry kick-out, Tyrone pushed up and won it and were straight through for a goal chance. But from then on, they stepped off and conceded the short kick-out. I could see why they would do it in terms of getting 15 back and making Kerry break them down.
A platform
But whenever they did push up in the last 20 minutes of the match, the contest became a 50-50 lottery in terms of possession in the middle and that gave them a platform to attack. On a normal day Johnny Buckley, Anthony Maher and David Moran would present a big fetching threat but because it was so wet, any kind of touch or contact on the arm or shoulder would cause the ball to skate and slip.
And Tyrone come into their own on breaking ball. So I feel that was a significant aspect of the game.
Flip that around to Kerry. On Tyrone’s kick-out, Kerry pushed 12 players up and left only a goalkeeper, a full back and a sweeper back. Opposition kick-outs have been the big new dimension in Gaelic football. It is an area all teams now target. Tyrone opted to concede them. Kerry decided to press Tyrone. In the first half, their goalkeeper Niall Morgan was trying to get the ball out very quickly.
If the short kick-out wasn’t on, they did really well in pulling Maher and Moran to one side of the pitch and they isolated Seán Cavanagh as a go-to option on the other. But that seemed to go out the window once Kerry squeezed up in the second half. There was a 15-minute period when Morgan’s head seemed to go, in many respects. He just ended up kicking the ball out anywhere. Looking on, it didn’t seem as if the Tyrone boys knew where the kick-out was going.
It ended up that Conor Meyler and Tiernan McCann and Mattie Donnelly – Tyrone’s smaller players – contested for aerial ball against bigger Kerry men. And Kerry began to generate the scores that mattered during that stage. That had a knock-on effect for Tyrone at the other end of the field when they needed to convert three long-range frees when the game was up for grabs. It was very tough psychologically for Morgan to go up the field and nail those kicks after having such trouble finding his players with kick-outs.
But after that calamitous period Tyrone just threw the shackles off and ran directly at Kerry. Every time they did so, they seemed to create a scoring chance and they had four good goal chances, which is problematic for Kerry as they prepare for the All-Ireland final. The energy and work rate and structure was there for Tyrone and once they took their running game to Kerry, they came close to winning. Had they been a little more clinical in their shot conversion, they could have won.
Flashy scores
But Kerry showed all their patience and composure to prevail. These are traits they have in abundance. Their response to Tyrone’s goal was to engineer four unanswered points that came from good play and good decision-making.
One of those included a string of 24 passes when they were almost toying with Tyrone and drawing them out and then the ball was finally flicked inside for Colm Cooper, resulting in a free and the black card for Ronan McNamee. I didn’t think that it should have been a black card but Kerry’s precise play there was faultless.
In contrast to the McNamee decision, everyone in the stadium knew Shane Enright’s subsequent foul on Peter Harte should have been a black card and how that wasn’t given only one person knows. I also felt Pádraig McNulty’s penalty shout was valid but instead, he was booked for diving. I feel that was a residue from the Tiernan McCann issue in the quarter-final. Whatever about getting the penalty, McNulty would have been booked if that had not been such a talked-about issue. Those were tough calls on Tyrone.
The decision to substitute Donaghy for Paul Geaney swung the game in Kerry’s favour. Kerry have a fantastic squad of players that gives them flexibility but Eamonn Fitzmaurice still has to make these decisions. Kieran Donaghy is the captain and had just kicked a point and the manager took him off.
It was a brave decision. That is when the thing became very fluid and in-the-moment in terms of the coaching. Up to that point, Tyrone absolutely had their homework done on Kerry. But when Geaney came on, it was a different dynamic which filtered through the Kerry attack and it created a situation where all the hours Tyrone had spent studying and practicing for the Donaghy factor no longer applied.
Instinctive forwards
They had to play it as they saw it and that suits Kerry because of their surfeit of intelligent, instinctive forwards. And as new players were introduced, the less relevant Tyrone’s original game plan became. It was now a matter of trying to manage a way through the remainder of the match.
In a way, I felt Connor McAliskey’s goal chance was a defining moment. He did so much brilliantly; reading the pass from Paul Murphy and just moving away at speed from the Kerry defenders and taking a good line towards goal. I spoke a few weeks ago here about Mickey Linden’s pass to James McCartan in the 1994 All-Ireland final and this was a replica of that move. In fact, the Kerry minors finished a similar move in their semi-final.
Had the pass been made, it was a certain goal for Darren McCurry. But McAliskey decided to back himself instead of the team and it was a tough lesson for him. It was a tight, cagey first half and it was a game of margins so a goal would have been a massive score in the game. Had Tyrone got a goal and led at the break it would have been hugely significant.
You could sense in Croke Park that the weight of history was sitting very heavily on the Kerry crowd. They were nervous and subdued for a lot of the match and a goal at that stage would have heightened that mood. Particularly after Tyrone scored the penalty, you could feel that hoodoo about the place. The sense that Kerry just couldn’t shake them off was part of the match. Had Tyrone won this, they could have become an even bigger psychological problem for Kerry in future matches. Now that Kerry have beaten Tyrone, all of that vanishes.
It was like a hold that Mickey Harte had on Kerry and it no longer exists. Given the momentum-shift generated by Tyrone’s penalty, the Kerry response was even more impressive. It was then that their self-belief shone through.
Huge part
They just have it through the team. In fact, it seems to pass through Kerry teams regardless of who leaves the scene and who comes in. There is a constant stream of players going and coming through.
Their style doesn’t change from minor, under-21 through to senior so they are all thinking the same way anyhow. They never lose a team and have to rebuild from scratch. The replacements are fairly seamless. You could even see that yesterday when the lost a big player in Marc Ó Sé to a black card and just got on with it.
They expect to win. They have a huge number of talented players. Look at their midfield strength and their forward options. Their defenders are ball players. They do not give the ball away easily and make good, simple decisions consistently. This is a huge part of their game. There is toughness in them; it is not nastiness but they are tough.
The only chink in this team is that when players attack them directly, they can look vulnerable. Tyrone did that in the second half and were rewarded with goal chances. Both Mayo and Dublin tend to attack like that naturally so it is an issue for Kerry. They have a month to try and rectify that.
Tyrone lost despite doing a lot of things very well . The decision to concede the kick out might be something they would change in retrospect, particularly given the weather. It was really a battle of mobility against physicality and height and I felt they could have exploited their mobility a bit more. But they were so well coached to win the game and I imagine that Mickey Harte will be happy that they have made significant progression from the opening game against Donegal. It does seem as if their younger players have developed this summer and they will be better players on the back of two tough, big games in Croke Park. They will genuinely feel they are Ulster championship contenders in 2016. They may feel they have edged in front of Monaghan and Donegal now. But Kerry are precisely where they planned to be.
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Post by augustafield on Aug 25, 2015 23:03:24 GMT
Dublin - but Mayo would be easier to beat.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 25, 2015 23:35:29 GMT
As well as answering my survey, Mickmack gives a cold light of day analysis there, although it is a wee bit one sided.
They missed goals because they were under pressure from us, and we were prevented from goaling because of their pressure. Admittedly they went closer on the day but the conditions also contributed, favouring the forward charge and a younger panel.
How can a team who's goalie gifts the ball away say they were unlucky? Same as a fella who didn't pass the ball to a better positioned man thinking he was hard done by? Then Donaghy gets a 'lucky' goal v Donegal; the difference is we scored the goal and Tyrone didn't, simple!
Nobody got soft frees for falling and GBH/Assault wasn't punished with the 3 red cards it warranted. They were cruel on Colm yet the CCCC or whatever they call themselves haven't acted. Referees might have short memories and then offenders can't complain.
18 scores to 12, ah we were far and away the better team and Paddy Power slashed our odds to Evens with The Dubs at 13/8.
I'd be happy facing either Mayo or The Dubs on the back of that win and I have great faith in Éamonn. He has outsmarted two top Ulster managers and a few others so far and that's where we need to focus for the future. The only word of caution is that Harte has a way of getting 25% extra from a team and yes, I think we are vastly superior in class yet Tyrone kept us on the hook 'till the bitter sweet end.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 25, 2015 23:44:55 GMT
Dublin - but Mayo would be easier to beat. If they beat The Dubs would they still be harder to beat? How does the Mayo panel compare with the Donegal one that took The Dubs last year?, how many top class players does each have and will Mayo's 2nd string match Dubs running at them? How will The Dubs have changed in the year? I believed the 3 remaining games would be unpredictable and the more I think about it the less sure one can be of any particular outcome.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 26, 2015 7:15:05 GMT
some of the scores created by Kerry especially SOBs first half point was superb and they stretched Tyrone, probed and prodded till a chance came. JB is great at dropping into the pocket for a pot at a score. And Kerry were great in the final 8 mins. Sheehan stepped up and caught a crucial kickout and that led to Mahers score. But we were left in the game by Tyrone. Will Mayo or Dublin be so kind. Or the ref? The ref will surely be Coldrick. I agree - taking nothing away from a great Kerry finish, the fact is Tyrone were not great and with their keeper having a poor game, were unable to punish us. Kerry simply have to tighten up at the back, and if it's Dublin, have to tighten up on Cluxton's kick-outs. Kerry had some success with that in 2013. It is incredibly difficult as he lines them up so quickly.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 26, 2015 8:38:01 GMT
As well as answering my survey, Mickmack gives a cold light of day analysis there, although it is a wee bit one sided. They missed goals because they were under pressure from us, and we were prevented from goaling because of their pressure. Admittedly they went closer on the day but the conditions also contributed, favouring the forward charge and a younger panel. How can a team who's goalie gifts the ball away say they were unlucky? Same as a fella who didn't pass the ball to a better positioned man thinking he was hard done by? Then Donaghy gets a 'lucky' goal v Donegal; the difference is we scored the goal and Tyrone didn't, simple! Nobody got soft frees for falling and GBH/Assault wasn't punished with the 3 red cards it warranted. They were cruel on Colm yet the CCCC or whatever they call themselves haven't acted. Referees might have short memories and then offenders can't complain. 18 scores to 12, ah we were far and away the better team and Paddy Power slashed our odds to Evens with The Dubs at 13/8. I'd be happy facing either Mayo or The Dubs on the back of that win and I have great faith in Éamonn. He has outsmarted two top Ulster managers and a few others so far and that's where we need to focus for the future. The only word of caution is that Harte has a way of getting 25% extra from a team and yes, I think we are vastly superior in class yet Tyrone kept us on the hook 'till the bitter sweet end. I never said Tyrone were unlucky. Just they weren't ruthless enough to seize the chances that were there for them. Mayo or Dublin will and furthermore these teams wont concede short kickouts to Kerry and their keepers are better than Tyrones at kickouts. If we were lined up to meet Mayo or Dublin at semi final stage in 2015, would we now be talking about an All Ireland final based on Sundays performance? We have got there vis the handy route like in 2011 and like Mayo did in 2012 and 2013 when they only had to beat the previous years winners who weren't up for the battle. I am not saying that Kerry cant shore things up and go on to win the final. Its possible but there will have to be some improvement in 3 weeks.
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cruc8
Full Member
Posts: 94
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Post by cruc8 on Aug 26, 2015 8:43:15 GMT
I cannot see Mayo winning, but if Mayo adopted the Tyrone defensive system they would be hard to beat. They have a good midfield and better footballers and more natural scorers. Dublin failed to beat the blanket in the league against Tyrone and were lucky to score a goal in the end to draw. They only beat Monaghan by a point in the league semi final. Dublin forwards are more individualistic and will need to work as a team to beat a blanket system. Dublin created a lot of goal chances against Donegal last year but like Tyrone last Sunday you have to increase the odds of scoring by giving the ball to the man in the best position. This is a difficult trait to coach. What happens in a high tempo game against good opposition is players often revert to type. Mayo like Kerry have forwards who play the odds better than other teams but I fear for them if they go with one sweeper only.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 26, 2015 8:48:02 GMT
Four weeks is a long time to sharpen the knives in Killarney. As JMG said, Kerry are were exactly they wanted to be. Keep the faith.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 26, 2015 9:36:16 GMT
Darragh going for Dublin by 3, Mike Quirke going for a slender Mayo win.
I was just wondering, if its a draw will the replay be on in Limerick?
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Post by mayo4sam on Aug 26, 2015 10:07:47 GMT
Darragh going for Dublin by 3, Mike Quirke going for a slender Mayo win. I was just wondering, if its a draw will the replay be on in Limerick? Only for the final
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Aug 26, 2015 10:34:42 GMT
Personally, I want Dublin in the final. We owe them one. Of course, I'd like to see Mayo win, but it's Dublin I want to take on.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 26, 2015 11:26:39 GMT
Personally, I want Dublin in the final. We owe them one. Of course, I'd like to see Mayo win, but it's Dublin I want to take on. I agree..but I felt that way about Tyrone in '05 and '08.
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 26, 2015 12:49:19 GMT
I cannot see Mayo winning, but if Mayo adopted the Tyrone defensive system they would be hard to beat. They have a good midfield and better footballers and more natural scorers. Dublin failed to beat the blanket in the league against Tyrone and were lucky to score a goal in the end to draw. They only beat Monaghan by a point in the league semi final. Dublin forwards are more individualistic and will need to work as a team to beat a blanket system. Dublin created a lot of goal chances against Donegal last year but like Tyrone last Sunday you have to increase the odds of scoring by giving the ball to the man in the best position. This is a difficult trait to coach. What happens in a high tempo game against good opposition is players often revert to type. Mayo like Kerry have forwards who play the odds better than other teams but I fear for them if they go with one sweeper only. Well thats a contradiction. Why does the team with the better footballers and more natural scorers have to play a sweeper against the team with the lesser footballers and less natural scorers?
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cruc8
Full Member
Posts: 94
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Post by cruc8 on Aug 26, 2015 13:10:02 GMT
I cannot see Mayo winning, but if Mayo adopted the Tyrone defensive system they would be hard to beat. They have a good midfield and better footballers and more natural scorers. Dublin failed to beat the blanket in the league against Tyrone and were lucky to score a goal in the end to draw. They only beat Monaghan by a point in the league semi final. Dublin forwards are more individualistic and will need to work as a team to beat a blanket system. Dublin created a lot of goal chances against Donegal last year but like Tyrone last Sunday you have to increase the odds of scoring by giving the ball to the man in the best position. This is a difficult trait to coach. What happens in a high tempo game against good opposition is players often revert to type. Mayo like Kerry have forwards who play the odds better than other teams but I fear for them if they go with one sweeper only. Well thats a contradiction. Why does the team with the better footballers and more natural scorers have to play a sweeper against the team with the lesser footballers and less natural scorers? Sorry sky Blue I should have added Tyrone after natural scorers.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 26, 2015 13:32:05 GMT
Darragh going for Dublin by 3, Mike Quirke going for a slender Mayo win.
I was just wondering, if its a draw will the replay be on in Limerick? There has been a systems failure folks. I though all the Kerry GAA writers were supposed to pile the pressure on Dublin this week by predicting a Dublin win
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 26, 2015 14:57:49 GMT
Well thats a contradiction. Why does the team with the better footballers and more natural scorers have to play a sweeper against the team with the lesser footballers and less natural scorers? Sorry sky Blue I should have added Tyrone after natural scorers. ok makes sense now alright.
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Aug 26, 2015 17:07:51 GMT
I cannot see Mayo winning, but if Mayo adopted the Tyrone defensive system they would be hard to beat. They have a good midfield and better footballers and more natural scorers. Dublin failed to beat the blanket in the league against Tyrone and were lucky to score a goal in the end to draw. They only beat Monaghan by a point in the league semi final. Dublin forwards are more individualistic and will need to work as a team to beat a blanket system. Dublin created a lot of goal chances against Donegal last year but like Tyrone last Sunday you have to increase the odds of scoring by giving the ball to the man in the best position. This is a difficult trait to coach. What happens in a high tempo game against good opposition is players often revert to type. Mayo like Kerry have forwards who play the odds better than other teams but I fear for them if they go with one sweeper only. The one thing more than anything that has cost Mayo the loss of the last two AI final is their lack of quality forwards, particularly in the inside line. Over-reliance on Cillian O'Connor and now Aidan O'Shea. Guys like Doherty, Conroy, Varley(gone),Ronaldson, Moran (was better but in decline now)are decent - but not good enough in a tight spot like 2013 in particular. If they had a Hamez or Gooch, they would have a cup won by now.
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boots
Full Member
Posts: 149
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Post by boots on Aug 26, 2015 17:14:47 GMT
I find this game so difficult to call. You could make an equally strong case for both counties to win. I'm going to take Dublin in the best game of the summer so far. But only just. ( and I might change my mind again before Sunday!!).
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keane
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Aug 26, 2015 18:02:29 GMT
Mayo have only ever beaten one of the top two or three teams when they were coming off an All Ireland hangover. Good team, slightly overrated, won't beat Dublin I don't think though I probably hope they do.
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Post by mayo4sam on Aug 26, 2015 21:28:53 GMT
Mayo have only ever beaten one of the top two or three teams when they were coming off an All Ireland hangover. Good team, slightly overrated, won't beat Dublin I don't think though I probably hope they do. Keane, Mayo are abit like Kerry so, apart from getting the rub of the green from the ref like last year. We will concentrate on the Dubs for now.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 26, 2015 21:34:21 GMT
Despite what some might think, we've nothing left to prove against Mayo (unless we have to again of course!) because we beat a Mayo team going on full throttle last year in an absolute Everest of a battle. Now I know people and I include myself often say be careful what you might wish for but still, I do hope this Kerry side get a crack at Dublin again. We've beaten Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone and if we were to add the scalp of this Dublin team there would be no arguments about exactly who are the best side in the country. The currency of beating Dublin in a final after having defeated all other would be contenders within the last 2 seasons would be massive for this Kerry team. Acknowledged greatness would surely follow so the prize is huge. Then again, just beating Mayo in a final and bringing home Sam would be fine too!
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Post by norman on Aug 26, 2015 21:34:28 GMT
Dublin by 4 points, too much guile & firepower for an over-rated mayo side.
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Post by mayo4sam on Aug 26, 2015 21:38:34 GMT
yerra yerra yerra, jasus lads ye are out in force again. Ye beat a Mayo team in a Munster ground with some dodgy ref calls, it seems enright is the invisible man in the eyes of the referees. Hopefully they will keep an eye on his antics when he meets Maigh Eo in this years final.
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Post by norman on Aug 26, 2015 21:43:35 GMT
Chips again for tea again tonight it seems...
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Post by mayo4sam on Aug 26, 2015 21:45:21 GMT
we will save that for the 20th norman
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 26, 2015 22:08:48 GMT
Chips again for tea again tonight it seems... Well balanced with chips on both shoulders washed down with a pint of sour grapes. I thought we had enough of this on the other thread. It's making me change the habit of a lifetime and start rooting for Dublin.
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Post by norman on Aug 26, 2015 22:10:08 GMT
Some ketchup would be great...
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Post by sullyschoice on Aug 26, 2015 22:26:14 GMT
we will save that for the 20th norman You will be merely a spectator
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