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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 9, 2015 17:24:05 GMT
Fooling a ref is a fools game and once you loose his trust you will loose anything that is going and rightly so.
We now have a manager who doesn't feel constrained by how things were done historically and this will prove that we could have beaten Tyrone in a few finals. Harte is only good because others didn't adapt to his style. Ah yes he will have more cards up his sleeve and he likes to get Ulster behind him with his ABK (Anyone But Kerry) mantra agenda. I'm liking forward to Éamonn giving him a roasting in the tactical battle and that our players are tougher and infinitely classier we are looking good.
I hope we get Mayo in the final and I think that may well be the case, although the Dubs would also be an amazing game. Our class has brought the game back again after a few unentertaining games and Kerry are used to that role down the years.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 9, 2015 18:01:21 GMT
Above are extracts from Mickey Harte's book. It relates to the 2003 win over or humiliation of Kerry. Prior to every paragraph he has a little appropriate quote. For that 2003 game it was "On my command, unleash hell".And so they did. Kerry need have no excuses if they lose to Tyrone in 2015. They know what to expect. Time for men with tenacious stout hearts. Kerrys three previous managers all lost to Mickey Harte in their first showdown with Tyrone..in 2003, 2005 and 2008. Eamonn has an opportunity now to reverse that trend. Pity Mickey Harte wasnt a fan of Pulp Fiction. He could have changed the quote to "And you know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengence upon you". And perhaps even spoke about the merits of Big Kahuna Burger.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 9, 2015 18:12:07 GMT
I can't help thinking of Keyser Soze when I think of Mickey Harte. I would do up an old graphic but I still admire the man: I am just a bit confused by the antics of his team.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 9, 2015 18:16:39 GMT
I think MH was more interested in getting into the heads of the Tyrone players than winning the Booker prize! What's the name of it? I might give it a look It's called Knocking Down Heaven's Door. I have a signed copy because I wandered into O'Neills in Belfast when he was promoting it in late 2003. I have hardly looked at it since then given what happened in the meantime.
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Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 381
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Post by Hicser on Aug 9, 2015 18:39:48 GMT
I think this match will be very similar to the Kildare match, I can't see Tyrone troubling Kerry once Kerry show up. Kerry need to be on the ball quickly. If we get in to a cynical encounter then it will play in to Tyrones hands, some of the antics on Saturday was farcical in the exteme. Key area again will be midfield. If as expected we win that battle then I expect it should be comfortable,
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 9, 2015 19:09:14 GMT
Kerry will need to remain calm and patient as other posters have said. I would not go along with anyone saying it should be comfortable. Remember Kerry won midfield in 2005 but Tyrone continually turned it over. I realise Tyrone 2015 are a long way behind their 2005 counterparts. But they are well capable of turning over ball, though perhaps less capable of racking up scores.
Tyrone will feel they can get in Kerry's heads.
I think some thought should be given to not starting Bryan Sheehan. I would almost always regard a reliable free-taker as essential when going into a game, but clearly Bryan Sheehan is not fit to play 70 minutes at the expected intensity. Also, there may be more frees in the second half than the first. If Sheehan starts I expect Tyrone to try to drag him all over Croker.
I'm not sure about Donaghy. If he was started, he is likely to be pulled, dragged and wound up while winning zero frees.
Who is the man to mark McCurry?
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Aug 9, 2015 19:35:18 GMT
Murph
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Aug 9, 2015 19:44:06 GMT
After yesterday's Tyrone antics I'd be expecting the ref to give Kerry everything like he did to Mayo against Tyrone in 2013. Donaghy should make hay
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 9, 2015 19:47:39 GMT
I think you're right, he needs to be careful with his tackling though.
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Post by ballynamona on Aug 9, 2015 19:48:36 GMT
After yesterday's Tyrone antics I'd be expecting the ref to give Kerry everything like he did to Mayo against Tyrone in 2013. Donaghy should make hay Has the ref been named?
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Post by tyroneperson on Aug 9, 2015 20:03:22 GMT
Fooling a ref is a fools game and once you loose his trust you will loose anything that is going and rightly so. We now have a manager who doesn't feel constrained by how things were done historically and this will prove that we could have beaten Tyrone in a few finals. Harte is only good because others didn't adapt to his style. Ah yes he will have more cards up his sleeve and he likes to get Ulster behind him with his ABK (Anyone But Kerry) mantra agenda. I'm liking forward to Éamonn giving him a roasting in the tactical battle and that our players are tougher and infinitely classier we are looking good. I hope we get Mayo in the final and I think that may well be the case, although the Dubs would also be an amazing game. Our class has brought the game back again after a few unentertaining games and Kerry are used to that role down the years. Harte's won All-Irelands at minor, U21 (twice) and senior level and brought his club to an All-Ireland semi-final - with no blanket defence in sight either - so I think you're doing him a major disservice there. He's not perfect - who is - but he's still been a great manager. Managed St Ciaran's Ballygawley to a few All-Ireland schools titles as well come to think of it. And you don't think Jack O'Connor adapted to the demands of the modern game? Under his watch Kerry hammered Tyrone in 2012 anyway so what would another victory over Tyrone 'prove'? That stuff about him liking to get Ulster behind him/having an Anyone But Kerry mantra( ) isn't true either and would be an irrelevancy even if it were. I dare say plenty of Ulstermen will be behind Kerry.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 9, 2015 20:16:17 GMT
After yesterday's Tyrone antics I'd be expecting the ref to give Kerry everything like he did to Mayo against Tyrone in 2013. Donaghy should make hay yes this is true, Maurice Deegan gave Mayo a succession of phantom frees. The suits didn't want Tyrone to go any further over "Cavanaghgate"
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 9, 2015 20:51:19 GMT
Harte is only good because others didn't adapt to his style. Ah yes he will have more cards up his sleeve and he likes to get Ulster behind him with his ABK (Anyone But Kerry) mantra agenda. I'm liking forward to Éamonn giving him a roasting in the tactical battle and that our players are tougher and infinitely classier we are looking good. That stuff about him liking to get Ulster behind him/having an Anyone But Kerry mantra( ) isn't true either and would be an irrelevancy even if it were. I dare say plenty of Ulstermen will be behind Kerry. I know from bitter experience that very few Ulster people will be behind Kerry when we are playing any Ulster team but it's not solely a Tyrone thing. In fact when Tyrone were successful the others turned against them a bit. In the run up to the 2008 final several Kerry jerseys were spotted on the streets of Magherafelt. This All for Ulster mentality is a bit strange. I can't imagine us going for Cork, Galway for Mayo or Meath for Dublin in similar circumstances. There is even an Ultra version - one Antrim person told me he will only pledge allegiance to the "Northern Irish" teams (ie not Monaghan, Cavan or Donegal). well we know who he will be shouting for!
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Post by tyroneperson on Aug 9, 2015 20:57:21 GMT
That stuff about him liking to get Ulster behind him/having an Anyone But Kerry mantra( ) isn't true either and would be an irrelevancy even if it were. I dare say plenty of Ulstermen will be behind Kerry. I know from bitter experience that very few Ulster people will be behind Kerry when we are playing any Ulster team but it's not solely a Tyrone thing. In fact when Tyrone were successful the others turned against them a bit. In the run up to the 2008 final several Kerry jerseys were spotted on the streets of Magherafelt. This All for Ulster mentality is a bit strange. I can't imagine us going for Cork, Galway for Mayo or Meath for Dublin in similar circumstances. There is even an Ultra version - one Antrim person told me he will only pledge allegiance to the "Northern Irish" teams (ie not Monaghan, Cavan or Donegal). well we know who he will be shouting for! I'm not sure, Tyrone aren't very popular at the moment. Armagh fans in particular seem to have a strong dislike of Tyrone, probably going back to 2003 and 2005. In general I think people North and South perpetuate 'Ulster football' as a thing apart though. Maybe it is a bit different, I don't know.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 9, 2015 21:17:10 GMT
Not with this weather, he won't!
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 9, 2015 21:27:41 GMT
That stuff about him liking to get Ulster behind him/having an Anyone But Kerry mantra( ) isn't true either and would be an irrelevancy even if it were. I dare say plenty of Ulstermen will be behind Kerry. I know from bitter experience that very few Ulster people will be behind Kerry when we are playing any Ulster team but it's not solely a Tyrone thing. In fact when Tyrone were successful the others turned against them a bit. In the run up to the 2008 final several Kerry jerseys were spotted on the streets of Magherafelt. This All for Ulster mentality is a bit strange. I can't imagine us going for Cork, Galway for Mayo or Meath for Dublin in similar circumstances. There is even an Ultra version - one Antrim person told me he will only pledge allegiance to the "Northern Irish" teams (ie not Monaghan, Cavan or Donegal). well we know who he will be shouting for! Is Kerry the only county who don't wear any other teams shirts? You'll find Kerry shirts everywhere. Same with Dublin, Mayo, Kilkenny, Galway etc. Do people really have the money to go about buying shirts to wind up their neighbours? I seriously doubt it. I can't speak for all in Ulster but there'd be the odd Ulster rival many wouldn't support. Down/Armagh, Derry/Tyrone etc. By the way, just because Tyrone were successful, that's wasn't why some turned against them. They had always turned against them. Not me though. I wouldn't have a bad word said about them boys
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 9, 2015 21:29:11 GMT
I know from bitter experience that very few Ulster people will be behind Kerry when we are playing any Ulster team but it's not solely a Tyrone thing. In fact when Tyrone were successful the others turned against them a bit. In the run up to the 2008 final several Kerry jerseys were spotted on the streets of Magherafelt. This All for Ulster mentality is a bit strange. I can't imagine us going for Cork, Galway for Mayo or Meath for Dublin in similar circumstances. There is even an Ultra version - one Antrim person told me he will only pledge allegiance to the "Northern Irish" teams (ie not Monaghan, Cavan or Donegal). well we know who he will be shouting for! I'm not sure, Tyrone aren't very popular at the moment. Armagh fans in particular seem to have a strong dislike of Tyrone, probably going back to 2003 and 2005. In general I think people North and South perpetuate 'Ulster football' as a thing apart though. Maybe it is a bit different, I don't know. I think it started a lot earlier than that. About 120 years earlier
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 9, 2015 22:11:20 GMT
Not with this weather, he won't! Paradoxically I think it makes more sense to play Donaghy in very bad weather where you will have a very low score and so a goal is worth even more.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 9, 2015 22:29:50 GMT
Well Colm ORourke pulled no punches tonight about Tyrone and the dark arts.
Ciaran Whelan is the outstanding analyst for me at this stage. He is spot on about Cluxton and the speed of his kickouts ...... easy to talk about making him kick long but while the umpire is signalling a score or a wide, Cluxton is ready to chip to an unmarked team mate.
Peter Harte wears 7 so whoever is marking him must keep him honest and force him to defend.
The nice litte hoppin ball into Geaney or Donaghy around the D wont be an option and neither will the high one into Donaghy as Tyrone defend that space.
So Kerry will have to come up with other ploys to score other than those two options.
Sheehans frees could be crucial. I would defo start Darren as he will rUn at them as will Stephen OBrien.
It will be a horses for courses selection I think.
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Post by aranteorainn on Aug 9, 2015 22:35:55 GMT
Well Colm ORourke pulled no punches tonight about Tyrone and the dark arts. Ciaran Whelan is the outstanding analyst for me at this stage. He is spot on about Cluxton and the speed of his kickouts ...... easy to talk about making him kick long but while the umpire is signalling a score or a wide, Cluxton is ready to chip to an unmarked team mate. Peter Harte wears 7 so whoever is marking him must keep him honest and force him to defend. The nice litte hoppin ball into Geaney or Donaghy around the D wont be an option and neither will the high one into Donaghy as Tyrone defend that space. So Kerry will have to come up with other ploys to score other than those two options. Sheehans frees could be crucial. I would defo start Darren as he will rUn at them as will Stephen OBrien. It will be a horses for courses selection I think. O Rourke talking about dark arts is like the devil talking about sin, both have a great knowledge of the subject. Thought Monaghan were just as bad.
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Post by kerryman22 on Aug 9, 2015 23:12:40 GMT
Fair play to o Rourke for saying what everyone else is thinking . Tyrones shenanigans have no place in the game. They really do try and bring the game down to a new low year on year . At least the referee will be wise to it now against Kerry .
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 9, 2015 23:31:09 GMT
Not with this weather, he won't! Paradoxically I think it makes more sense to play Donaghy in very bad weather where you will have a very low score and so a goal is worth even more. That's true, but I meant making hay, literally
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 10, 2015 6:09:31 GMT
I know from bitter experience that very few Ulster people will be behind Kerry when we are playing any Ulster team but it's not solely a Tyrone thing. In fact when Tyrone were successful the others turned against them a bit. In the run up to the 2008 final several Kerry jerseys were spotted on the streets of Magherafelt. This All for Ulster mentality is a bit strange. I can't imagine us going for Cork, Galway for Mayo or Meath for Dublin in similar circumstances. There is even an Ultra version - one Antrim person told me he will only pledge allegiance to the "Northern Irish" teams (ie not Monaghan, Cavan or Donegal). well we know who he will be shouting for! Is Kerry the only county who don't wear any other teams shirts? You'll find Kerry shirts everywhere. Same with Dublin, Mayo, Kilkenny, Galway etc. Do people really have the money to go about buying shirts to wind up their neighbours? I seriously doubt it. I can't speak for all in Ulster but there'd be the odd Ulster rival many wouldn't support. Down/Armagh, Derry/Tyrone etc. By the way, just because Tyrone were successful, that's wasn't why some turned against them. They had always turned against them. Not me though. I wouldn't have a bad word said about them boys I can't understand why anyone without a connection (geographical, familial or spiritual!) to the county would wear a Kerry shirt but you are right. I see it here all the time. GAA (and also Rugby) is as much about a sense of place as it is about the game, unlike soccer where most Man U supporters don't even know where Manchester is. The inter county rivalry in Ulster is indeed fierce. It would make the Kerry/Cork thing look like the Teddy Bears' Picnic. But I have noticed that this tends to disappear once the Ulster Championship is over. The Ulster wagons are very firmly circled around the Ulster team still standing. And if they win they are joined by a whole mass of bandwagon jumpers. Nothing wrong with it and probably also down to sense of place, but I can't see that happening in the other Provinces. AM and other non-Tyrone Ulster posters could come clean and let us know who they WANT to win the Kerry/Tyrone semi (as opposed to who they THINK will win it).
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 10, 2015 6:11:49 GMT
Speaking of GAA shirts, I wonder which one Tyrone will choose for the semi. Will it be red or white? Both colours of teams we have beaten in the very recent past!
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Post by buck02 on Aug 10, 2015 9:07:11 GMT
Paul Murphy is another black card away from a one game suspension. This fact wont go past the notice of Tyrone. For this reason and the fact that we cant let Tyrone waltz down the centre of Kerrys defence I would start Peter Crowley instead of Paul. I'd say the younger Cavanagh still remembers the shoulder Crowley hit him in Killarney 18 months ago. Shane Enright should be suited to McCurry.
Up front, assuming James O Donoghue is not ready, I would start Donaghy for this one. It would force a few Tyrone backs closer to goal and maybe leave a few more gaps closer to their 45.
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animal
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Post by animal on Aug 10, 2015 9:32:54 GMT
Paul Murphy is another black card away from a one game suspension. This fact wont go past the notice of Tyrone. For this reason and the fact that we cant let Tyrone waltz down the centre of Kerrys defence I would start Peter Crowley instead of Paul. I'd say the younger Cavanagh still remembers the shoulder Crowley hit him in Killarney 18 months ago. Shane Enright should be suited to McCurry. Up front, assuming James O Donoghue is not ready, I would start Donaghy for this one. It would force a few Tyrone backs closer to goal and maybe leave a few more gaps closer to their 45. Tyrone concentrated hugely on stopping McManus. He was man marked as well as there being two sweepers nearby. That's fine against Monaghan. They have McManus and not much else. They will need another strategy when they come up against whatever combination of Geaney, Gooch, Donaghy or James takes the field. Any news on the Joe McMahon injury? He went off after 8 minutes and was replaced by his brother Justin.
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Post by jackiel on Aug 10, 2015 9:35:09 GMT
On a slightly different tack here but I think it's important that we travel in numbers for this match and bring plenty of colour. We need to fill Croke Park with Green & Gold and let the lads know we're with them all the way. Tyrone will travel and will be loud so we need to counter that but like the lads on the field not get dragged into any unnecessary nastiness with those around us.
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Post by Dermot on Aug 10, 2015 9:39:35 GMT
Is Kerry the only county who don't wear any other teams shirts? You'll find Kerry shirts everywhere. Same with Dublin, Mayo, Kilkenny, Galway etc. Do people really have the money to go about buying shirts to wind up their neighbours? I seriously doubt it. I can't speak for all in Ulster but there'd be the odd Ulster rival many wouldn't support. Down/Armagh, Derry/Tyrone etc. By the way, just because Tyrone were successful, that's wasn't why some turned against them. They had always turned against them. Not me though. I wouldn't have a bad word said about them boys I can't understand why anyone without a connection (geographical, familial or spiritual!) to the county would wear a Kerry shirt but you are right. I see it here all the time. GAA (and also Rugby) is as much about a sense of place as it is about the game, unlike soccer where most Man U supporters don't even know where Manchester is. The inter county rivalry in Ulster is indeed fierce. It would make the Kerry/Cork thing look like the Teddy Bears' Picnic. But I have noticed that this tends to disappear once the Ulster Championship is over. The Ulster wagons are very firmly circled around the Ulster team still standing. And if they win they are joined by a whole mass of bandwagon jumpers. Nothing wrong with it and probably also down to sense of place, but I can't see that happening in the other Provinces. AM and other non-Tyrone Ulster posters could come clean and let us know who they WANT to win the Kerry/Tyrone semi (as opposed to who they THINK will win it). Derry will support ABT (Anyone but Tyrone) mainly due to the battles we ha din the 90's Armagh will support ABT mainly due to the games in the 00's Down will support Anyone but another Ulster team .. esp Armagh, but Tyrone as well as they would hate us to catch up with their 5 All Irelands.. Donegal and the other counties would be split between people who hate us and people who'd support us .. much like everywhere else really ... So this idea (mentioned by someone earlier) of Ulster people and M Harte with an "Anybody but Kerry" attitude is a fallacy Im afraid !!
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Post by Dermot on Aug 10, 2015 9:46:00 GMT
And yes, just like the Sunday Game, some really balanced posts here yeah right .. McCann was ridiculous and Id be happy for any player who does what he did to be sent off .. However, I dont remember the same outcry when Rory Beggan did it or when Shields did it a few weeks ago ... Im just going to assume that all the hysterical posters on here were just as outraged when your current full back did it a few years ago Anyway, it bodes well for us really as when the knives are out for us it lets us know we must be doing something right ... We wont win the AI this year but I am genuinely upbeat about where we are going.. Sean Cavanagh is some player !!
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Aug 10, 2015 9:52:35 GMT
Paul Murphy is another black card away from a one game suspension. This fact wont go past the notice of Tyrone. For this reason and the fact that we cant let Tyrone waltz down the centre of Kerrys defence I would start Peter Crowley instead of Paul. I'd say the younger Cavanagh still remembers the shoulder Crowley hit him in Killarney 18 months ago. Shane Enright should be suited to McCurry. Up front, assuming James O Donoghue is not ready, I would start Donaghy for this one. It would force a few Tyrone backs closer to goal and maybe leave a few more gaps closer to their 45. I would disagree Buck. Paul is the best man for the job in my view, and I don't think we need to be protecting players for themselves. McCurry is decent but he is turning his marker far too easily and I think Paul's tenacity will put much more pressure on him. I think Shane is the man for big Sean. Very disappointing to see him at the diving. I thought he was above that sh1te. Donnelly and Harte I'm most concerned with as both especially Harte go down the middle where we lack speed from midfield up. We don't want them moving at speed by time they reach our half back line. They will seek frees if scoring option is not on. Yet I would be expecting both will be spending considerable time running in the other direction. I'm getting a bit tired of all the 03, 5, 8 stuff. Very negative. Each game is played on its merits. Our recent history with league and Championship is very good against Tyrone. No loss in 5 years and we've dished out two hammerings and got 3 points from 4 in Omagh. How about a counter argument. Mickey Harte's potentially last game, the Tyrone players have seen 7-16, they don't want Mickey to ends up leaving his managerial career to Kerry after a bad defeat. Only two if their team likely starting 15 have experienced Championship big day wins against Kerry. Sunday Game have highlighted to the nation the cynical play and diving. So they will be going into this game free as a bird under no pressure?
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