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Post by Mickmack on Mar 29, 2015 19:01:12 GMT
TABLE AT PRESENT
CORK on 10 +15 MONAGHAN on 8 +4 DUBLIN on 7 +19 DONEGAL on 6 +8 MAYO on 6 +3 KERRY on 6 -11 TYRONE on 4 -14 DERRY on 1 -24
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 29, 2015 19:01:53 GMT
so if Tyrone win by 2 points they move above Kerry on the table.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 29, 2015 19:35:41 GMT
I think we need Monaghan to beat Dublin and Kerry to beat Tyrone to make the semi finals
That would leave a top 4 of
Cork on 12 Monaghan on 10 Mayo or Donegal on 8 .. they play each other next. Whoever wins has 8 points. Who ever loses has 6 points Kerry on 8
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falveyb2k
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Post by falveyb2k on Mar 29, 2015 20:07:50 GMT
The big defeat against Cork and the scores we gave up against Mayo in the second half will probably cost us any chance of a semi final spot which is disappointing considering we had 4 home games and one of our away games was in Cork. In fairness though we could easily have expected to lose the first 2 games considering that the team were just back from holiday, it wouldn't have been a big shock either to lose points to Dublin/Donegal. That makes today and the Cork hiding all the more frustrating. At this stage I'd be happy enough to stay up, it won't have any bearing on the championship but division 2 isn't great for a young enough team
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 29, 2015 20:46:51 GMT
Another opportunity for Kerry to take a look at the blanket defence. This game is more now about staying up rather than qualifying for the league semi finals. Hard enough to call the Dublin Monaghan game however..........
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 29, 2015 22:37:18 GMT
Never mind the semis. The big issue for us now is relegation.
The position after today is:
Derry definitely relegated.
Cork,Monaghan and Dublin definitely staying up.
Mayo would be in trouble if they lost heavily to Donegal and we lost to Tyrone.
If Donegal lose to Mayo they go down if we lose as we beat them on the head to head. They stay up if we beat or draw with Tyrone.
Tyrone must beat us to stay up but a draw is all we need.
We are often at our best when we have a mountain to climb. Let's hope that the team that travels to Omagh is the one that beat Donegal and Dublin.
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falveyb2k
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Post by falveyb2k on Mar 29, 2015 22:51:28 GMT
It's not based on head to head, it's based on points difference
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diego
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Post by diego on Mar 29, 2015 23:15:00 GMT
It's not based on head to head, it's based on points difference I think points difference is only used if 3 or more teams are level. If just 2 teams are level then their head to head is the deciding factor.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Mar 29, 2015 23:34:16 GMT
If it's head to head we have a realistic third party assistant in Mayo. They coughed up a two point lead in injury time after a fine second half showing against the wind, 0-5 0-4 in second half to Mayo til the goal. Donegal are in form too. It should be close.
That we are -11 is very disheartening. You wouldn't bet on winning 3 from 6 games if -11 was your only prediction instrument.
We've really minimal goal scoring threat at the moment and we're shipping far too many.
Think if we 'turn up' we will beat Tyrone. They're only an ok team, respectfully meant. They got mauled today. We have no consistent form line though and given the stakes it will likely be squeaky arse viewing
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diego
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Post by diego on Mar 29, 2015 23:52:23 GMT
Seem to remember the head to rule being in effect in the last couple of years alright. Last paragraph of this piece by John Fogarty in the Examiner suggests it is still in play - www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/state-of-play-kerry-face-familiar-task-to-avoid-relegation-trapdoor-321025.htmlIn terms of the relegation permutations, worst case scenario for Donegal or Mayo would be a 3 way tie with ourselves and Tyrone on 6 points, but even then Donegal would have to lose by at least 21 points to be in any danger of relegation. Mayo would have to lose by at least 16 points to have any worries. Safe to say it is us or Tyrone for the drop. Realistically Tyrone need to beat us by 2 points or more to stay up. A 1 point win for Tyrone would only send us down if the Mayo and Donegal game ended in a draw, as the head to head would send us down. On the positive side, assuming head to head rule is in operation, then to get to the semis we would only need a draw with Tyrone to qualify if Dublin lose and Mayo/Donegal don't draw. If we could get the win in Tyrone, then just a Dublin loss should see us through as well. So all is not lost!
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Mar 30, 2015 0:21:54 GMT
Kerry were very lucky in 2013. Dublin drew in Donegal meaning Kerry stayed up. 3 late wins last year kept you up then. Could Kerry fall this time though? The H2H/points diff thing is crap. Just have +/- diff so that everyone knows where they stand. Personally, I'd love a crack at ye in Div 2 next year
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 30, 2015 8:49:38 GMT
Forget the permutations - only result we can have a say in is our game against Tyrone. Win in Tyrone and we are safe in D1 for 2016 and then come what may. What is the injury/availability situation for players - how long is Sheehan out for? How bad is Geaney? The early misses yesterday were costly and Sheehan's value from placed balls highlighted by his absence.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 30, 2015 9:08:34 GMT
Kerry's form is very consistent in this league. Good performance followed by a bad one. A good one is due next Sunday.
A draw between Dublin and Monaghan would suit both of them and they would probably meet again in the semi final.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 30, 2015 9:10:39 GMT
Donegal 1-13 Tyrone 0-6
AN EXHIBITION of free-taking from Michael Murphy means Tyrone and Kerry will face-off on Sunday at Healy Park as both bid to survive the drop to the Allianz League Division Two.
The Donegal captain was in exceptional form from placed balls in thoroughly awkward windy conditions to score six points as Rory Gallagher’s team steamrolled the side managed by Mickey Harte.
Monaghan’s victory over Kerry meant the Red Hands had a surprise reprieve and need a two-point winning margin next weekend to relegate the All-Ireland champions, along with Derry who fell through the trapdoor on Saturday.
Ryan McHugh netted what proved to be the only goal of the game on 31 minutes when he was on hand to shoot past Tyrone substitute goalkeeper Sean Fox, who had saved initially from Hugh McFadden when Frank McGlynn’s effort had come back down off the upright.
Donegal welcome Tyrone back to Ballybofey on May 17 in the preliminary round of the Ulster championship and on this showing will not relinquish the Anglo-Celt Cup without a struggle.
Donegal, with Murphy scoring two long-range frees from 55 metres, were 1-9 to 0-3 in front at the interval before the same player added another from similar distance just after the break. He was later black-carded for a foul on Sean Cavanagh and will miss his team’s trip to Mayo on Sunday as a consequence.
Tyrone never got going and despite trying to flood their defence were unable to keep tabs on a Donegal side who attacked them at angles. Martin McElhinney kicked two fine points as Tyrone failed to trouble the umpires from the 16th minute to the 48th.
Scorers for Donegal: Michael Murphy 0-6 (5f), Ryan McHugh 1-1, Martin McElhinney 0-2, Odhran MacNiallais, Neil McGee and Frank McGlynn 0-1 each, Patrick McBrearty 0-1 (1f)
Scorers for Tyrone: Peter Harte 0-2 (2f), Darren McCurry, Ronan O’Neill, Connor McAlliskey and Sean Cavanagh 0-1 (1f)
Donegal : M Boyle; E Doherty, N McGee, E McGee; F McGlynn, K Lacey, R McHugh; N Gallagher, O MacNiallais; C Toye, M McElhinney, M O’Reilly; P McBrearty, M Murphy, H McFadden. Subs: C McFadden for Gallagher (57), A Thompson for Murphy (black card 61), D McLaughlin for McElhinney (68 black card), M McHugh for R McHugh (68), G McFadden for N McGee (70), D Walsh for O’Reilly (70).
Tyrone: N Morgan; R McNamee, J McMahon, C McCarron; A McCrory, R McNabb, C Clarke; C Cavanagh, P McNulty; T McCann, Mattie Donnelly, P Harte; Da McCurry, R O’Neill, C McAliskey. Subs: S Fox for Morgan (20), S Cavanagh for O’Neill (half-time), PJ Lavery and C McCann for McAliskey and McNulty (41), N McKenna for Clarke (43), P Hughes for C Cavanagh (61)
Referee: Joe McQuillan (Cavan)
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 30, 2015 19:09:47 GMT
It's not based on head to head, it's based on points difference I think points difference is only used if 3 or more teams are level. If just 2 teams are level then their head to head is the deciding factor. Pretty certain that's right. I can't recall this rule being changed in the last few years. I agree we have to focus on winning (or drawing) but we would need to be clear about the rule in case we need to depend on the result of another match. I remember walking away from Healy Park two years ago thinking we had dropped to Division 2 until I heard that Dublin drew with Donegal with the last kick of the game which saved us and dropped Donegal. We could be looking for Mayo to do us a similar favour next weekend but hopefully not.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Mar 30, 2015 19:26:13 GMT
Expect to see the return of gooch next weekend in Omagh, I for one will be making the trip to see his reappearance.
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Post by southward on Mar 30, 2015 19:44:36 GMT
Kerry were very lucky in 2013. Dublin drew in Donegal meaning Kerry stayed up. 3 late wins last year kept you up then. Could Kerry fall this time though? The H2H/points diff thing is crap. Just have +/- diff so that everyone knows where they stand. Personally, I'd love a crack at ye in Div 2 next year Not sure you could call it lucky. We had six points, which would be plenty most years (not this year, unfortunately). Kildare also had six 2 years ago and made the semis. I'd say we'd have been rather unlucky to have gone down.
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Post by athletics on Mar 30, 2015 20:52:21 GMT
I don't think the Gooch will be played next weekend. He has not lined out for his club yet. Does anyone know if Bryan Sheehan will be back for next weekend? It is going to be a very tough match.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Mar 30, 2015 20:53:08 GMT
Kerry were very lucky in 2013. Dublin drew in Donegal meaning Kerry stayed up. 3 late wins last year kept you up then. Could Kerry fall this time though? The H2H/points diff thing is crap. Just have +/- diff so that everyone knows where they stand. Personally, I'd love a crack at ye in Div 2 next year Not sure you could call it lucky. We had six points, which would be plenty most years (not this year, unfortunately). Kildare also had six 2 years ago and made the semis. I'd say we'd have been rather unlucky to have gone down. AFAIK a team with 6 points has never been relegated under the current system and if we beat Tyrone then 6 points will also be enough this year for the loser in the Donegal Mayo game assuming there is one.
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Post by veteran on Mar 30, 2015 21:29:09 GMT
A lot of supporters have have been anticipating with great excitement the return of Tommy Walsh and Colm Cooper.It is understandable that this is so but, without wanting to be too pessimistic, it would be prudent not to build up our hopes too much in that regard.
It must be remembered that Colm's injury was not just a simple cruciate injury, if one can be forgiven for describing a cruciate injury as simple. Seemingly, he also sustained a fracture in the knee area. Obviously, that complicates and slows down convalescence. Another factor to consider is that the likes of David Moran and Colm O'Neill were younger men when disaster struck and it is no secret that the powers of recovery are greater in the younger age group. My attitude towards Colm is this. There should be no question of him playing in Omagh. Indeed, if we are that fortunate, there should no question of him playing in the semifinal/final of the NFL. Let him start playing for Dr. Crokes when the ground hardens up and take it from there. I would further caution, when and if he wears the green and gold again, not to expect the second coming of the elusive butterfly. The essence of his game was darts and jinks and shimmies, Can such a damaged knee be expected to reproduce these balletic movements. If it transpires that my pessimism is unfounded I promise to subject my own creaking bones to the said darts,jinks and shimmies.
When it was announced that Tommy Walsh was coming back some months ago I advised caution on a couple of grounds. He had been out of football for several years. He had also sustained a very serious injury which seemingly stymied his ambition to further his professional career. I cited the example of Tadgh Kennelly. It took Tadhg a long time to acclimatise to the round ball. Now while Tadhg was out of the game for a longer time than Tommy he did in my view hold a couple of advantages over Tommy in his comeback efforts. While not necessarily better, he was a more natural, a more rounded footballer than Tommy. He also had a harder edge than Tommy. All these factors would have helped him to get the hang of things quicker than Tommy.
Another factor in Tadgh's favour was something I mentioned here when it was known that Tommy was coming back and indeed it was something that one poster scoffed at. Most of the winters during Tadgh's sojourn in Australia were spent back in Listowel, or at least a part of those winter. This meant that most winters he played a few games in the unfriendly fields of the North Kerry championship. The aforementioned poster wrote that the mucky, winter fields of North Kerry could not be used as a yardstick for future performances. Well, I suggest that if a man can come back from sunny Australia and make an impact in the mucky, winter fields of North Kerry it means that he has not totally lost touch with the reality of our ball game. I have no doubt those annual trips back home expedited Tadgh's influential return to the Kerry team.
As regards Tommy, I have no doubt that he will eventually recapture his 2009 form. My doubt is whether it will happen before 2016.
Perhaps, it is my low mood induced by the Monaghan game that has compelled me to write these few lines about Colm and Tommy but I have found if you are prepared for the worst disappointment is lessened.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Mar 30, 2015 21:48:38 GMT
Just from conversing with a couple of people in the know, they are expecting Colm to get game time against Tyrone. People may think it is premature and they could have a point but if he does end up featuring I'm sure there would be no question marks over his fitness and injury. I think Tommy Walsh coming back coupled with Donaghy and James O having brilliant seasons last year is a huge benefit to us in terms of goochs recovery. The pressure for him to recapture old performances is not as high as one would initially have expected. Nobody can say yet how effective the gooch will be after injury, the reality is he sustained a horrific double injury and the likelihood is that you would imagine he will lose a yard of pace and logically you would assume he will play the remainder of his footballing days on the 40. If he comes back half the player he was that still makes him a valuable asset to us
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 30, 2015 22:05:19 GMT
Kerry were very lucky in 2013. Dublin drew in Donegal meaning Kerry stayed up. 3 late wins last year kept you up then. Could Kerry fall this time though? The H2H/points diff thing is crap. Just have +/- diff so that everyone knows where they stand. Personally, I'd love a crack at ye in Div 2 next year Not sure you could call it lucky. We had six points, which would be plenty most years (not this year, unfortunately). Kildare also had six 2 years ago and made the semis. I'd say we'd have been rather unlucky to have gone down. League Table 2013 Division 1[edit] NFL semi-final placing Relegation Zone Team Pld W D L F A Diff Pts Dublin (Q) 7 5 1 1 8–105 5–73 41 11 Tyrone (Q) 7 5 0 2 6–87 4–75 18 10 Kildare (Q) 7 4 0 3 10–72 8–93 -15 8 Mayo (Q) 7 3 0 4 2–87 5–75 3 6 Cork 7 3 0 4 6–73 4–85 -6 6 Kerry 7 3 0 4 2–65 7–70 -20 6 Donegal (R) 7 2 1 4 3–78 4–74 1 5 Down (R) 7 2 0 5 6–81 7–84 -6 4
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 30, 2015 22:07:30 GMT
Just from conversing with a couple of people in the know, they are expecting Colm to get game time against Tyrone. People may think it is premature and they could have a point but if he does end up featuring I'm sure there would be no question marks over his fitness and injury. I think Tommy Walsh coming back coupled with Donaghy and James O having brilliant seasons last year is a huge benefit to us in terms of goochs recovery. The pressure for him to recapture old performances is not as high as one would initially have expected. Nobody can say yet how effective the gooch will be after injury, the reality is he sustained a horrific double injury and the likelihood is that you would imagine he will lose a yard of pace and logically you would assume he will play the remainder of his footballing days on the 40. If he comes back half the player he was that still makes him a valuable asset to us Hard to see the Gooch featuring on Sunday.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 30, 2015 22:23:58 GMT
A lot of supporters have have been anticipating with great excitement the return of Tommy Walsh and Colm Cooper.It is understandable that this is so but, without wanting to be too pessimistic, it would be prudent not to build up our hopes too much in that regard. It must be remembered that Colm's injury was not just a simple cruciate injury, if one can be forgiven for describing a cruciate injury as simple. Seemingly, he also sustained a fracture in the knee area. Obviously, that complicates and slows down convalescence. Another factor to consider is that the likes of David Moran and Colm O'Neill were younger men when disaster struck and it is no secret that the powers of recovery are greater in the younger age group. My attitude towards Colm is this. There should be no question of him playing in Omagh. Indeed, if we are that fortunate, there should no question of him playing in the semifinal/final of the NFL. Let him start playing for Dr. Crokes when the ground hardens up and take it from there. I would further caution, when and if he wears the green and gold again, not to expect the second coming of the elusive butterfly. The essence of his game was darts and jinks and shimmies, Can such a damaged knee be expected to reproduce these balletic movements. If it transpires that my pessimism is unfounded I promise to subject my own creaking bones to the said darts,jinks and shimmies. When it was announced that Tommy Walsh was coming back some months ago I advised caution on a couple of grounds. He had been out of football for several years. He had also sustained a very serious injury which seemingly stymied his ambition to further his professional career. I cited the example of Tadgh Kennelly. It took Tadhg a long time to acclimatise to the round ball. Now while Tadhg was out of the game for a longer time than Tommy he did in my view hold a couple of advantages over Tommy in his comeback efforts. While not necessarily better, he was a more natural, a more rounded footballer than Tommy. He also had a harder edge than Tommy. All these factors would have helped him to get the hang of things quicker than Tommy. Another factor in Tadgh's favour was something I mentioned here when it was known that Tommy was coming back and indeed it was something that one poster scoffed at. Most of the winters during Tadgh's sojourn in Australia were spent back in Listowel, or at least a part of those winter. This meant that most winters he played a few games in the unfriendly fields of the North Kerry championship. The aforementioned poster wrote that the mucky, winter fields of North Kerry could not be used as a yardstick for future performances. Well, I suggest that if a man can come back from sunny Australia and make an impact in the mucky, winter fields of North Kerry it means that he has not totally lost touch with the reality of our ball game. I have no doubt those annual trips back home expedited Tadgh's influential return to the Kerry team. As regards Tommy, I have no doubt that he will eventually recapture his 2009 form. My doubt is whether it will happen before 2016. Perhaps, it is my low mood induced by the Monaghan game that has compelled me to write these few lines about Colm and Tommy but I have found if you are prepared for the worst disappointment is lessened. Tommy has come back a physically totally different footballer after 5 years down under. He had huge bulk, speed and skill when he departed. In other words a blue chip no.15. It looks like they try to turn their players in Oz into running machines if they are not targeted as inside forwards in Aussie Rules. If the Gooch heals fully he should resume normal services pretty quickly. In 2013 he was much more a playmaker on the forty than a crack inside forward. Both players are an interesting spaces to watch. Kerry will be hugely competitive in the summer when the stakes are highest.
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 31, 2015 8:50:22 GMT
I think that it is significant that Tommy has been involved from the first league game and has seen game time in each game (I think). He has played even though it appears to many of us watching he doesn't warrant his place on the team or as one of the first subs. If we can see that you can be damn sure Eamonn and the selectors can see it as well. I'd put it this way: by putting Tommy on the pitch in these league games they are not doing it so that he will have a winning impact on that particular game but are playing the long game and hoping that every minute he plays at this level (i.e. higher that club football) will bring him further along the road. They clearly see him having a significant role to play in the summer.
Contrast that to Paul Galvin who while back in training has not been named on any panel. Both lads are coming into the championship from the cold and it is interesting to see the approach taken with both.
People might be getting a little frustrated with Tommy's progress but give him time. And if it doesn't work out sure didn't we win an All-Ireland without him last year? Anything we get out of him this year is a bonus. Don't forget that Tadgh was far from a permanent fixture on the team in '09 (neither was Tommy for that matter!)Funnily enough didn't Tadgh replace Tommy early in the '09 semi final? So be patient. Anything positive that Tommy gives us this summer is a bonus and something we didn't have last year. Same goes for Paul. If he makes a positive contribution we are gaining not losing.
As for Colm Cooper, well, anyone looking for him to be included in Tyrone needs their head examined. I can't recall a more serious injury to affect such a high profile player. We were always told the cruciate was as bad as it got. Wrong!! Colm got the cruciate + 1. Patience is the key and Omagh is not the place to be testing the knee. I don't have too many worries about his return. 2013 was a landmark year for Colm in a new playmaker role which he excelled in. It will be easier to return to this type of role than as a jinky No 13.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 31, 2015 10:31:13 GMT
Tommy's performance in the 2009 final is easily recalled. What's not so easily recalled though is that he was dropped for the semi final v Meath. kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/2945/ireland-semi-final-meath-kerry?page=13Interesting reading in the above thread. Clearly Tommy wasn't going that well for a long part of 2009 and came good when it mattered when Kerry's need was greatest. I will happily settle for TW finding a rich vein of form at the business end of 2015. He has lots of time and realistically, Kerry will be in the QFs in the August weekend and that's when the fun starts for Kerry. As regards Colm, I agree that he should wait for the firm ground and take his time. That footballing brain wont have been effected by the knee injury. My information round June of 2014 was that he wouldn't play again. That came from a source that I can depend on. Hopefully things improved dramatically in the intervening period and he will come back. The sun will shine a little brighter when he does. And Veteran, let those stupid comments about the NK championship run off you. Funny how often Kerry have depended on players who cut their teeth in the NK championship... Tim Kennelly, Jimmy Deenihan, Eamonn Fitzmaurice, Eamonn Breen, Paul Galvin, Liam Flaherty, Tadhg Kennelly, Eoin Liston, Shane Enright. When the going gets tough......
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Post by Dermot on Mar 31, 2015 11:25:42 GMT
I cant see us winning this match at all ... Kerry to stay up and us to drop to D2 ... We're sho1te :-(
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 31, 2015 11:51:02 GMT
Armagh, Cavan and Derry are already confirmed as being in Division 2 next year and then it's 4 from the current lot of Down, Roscommon, Meath, Cavan, Laois, Galway, Westmeath, Kildare plus whoever gets relegated from Division 1. Very little in the way to get excited about there and very little that looks like serious All-Ireland contendors either.
Division 1 will be Dublin, Monaghan, Cork for definite plus most likely both Donegal and Mayo plus 2 from Down, Roscommon, Meath and Cavan plus either Kerry or Tyrone most likely. In other words the serious competition. I can see whoever gets promoted being seriously up against it and would imagine that the two teams that do get promoted would be extremely strong favourites to go straight back down again.
The one positive if we do get relegated is that it's very hard to see Kerry being down in Division 2 for more than a year. However I think it would be a serious waste of a year in terms of player development. Reduces the odds of someone doing a Paul Murphy in terms of development considerably in my opinion.
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Post by wayupnorth on Mar 31, 2015 11:55:00 GMT
I cant see us winning this match at all ... Kerry to stay up and us to drop to D2 ... We're sho1te :-( You may think you are sho1te but we know you won't go down without a massive fho1te. Am I rho1te?
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Post by Dermot on Mar 31, 2015 13:31:07 GMT
I cant see us winning this match at all ... Kerry to stay up and us to drop to D2 ... We're sho1te :-( You may think you are sho1te but we know you won't go down without a massive fho1te. Am I rho1te? lol, unfartunately all our fho1ters have gone out of so1ght ... We're too feck1n meek now, with a banjo we couldnt hit a cow ... so no, you're not ro1te, we're absolute sho1te
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