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Post by southward on May 23, 2015 18:55:35 GMT
Cavan and Monaghan: a bitter rivalry dug deep into the land
Malachy Clerkin
Even allowing for the usual vagaries, the 1995 Ulster Championship was a spin-the-wheel job. Down came into it as All-Ireland champions and were finished for the year before May was out. Derry were favourites for Sam until they fell to 13-man Tyrone. Having beaten Down by six points – and instantly become All-Ireland favourites themselves – Donegal melted next day out to a hiding from Monaghan. Anarchy went into bat and took guard for a long, untroubled innings. Heading into the Ulster semi-final against Cavan, therefore, it wasn’t like Monaghan hadn’t been given fair warning. Everyone was talking about the possibility of a Cavan ambush. The problem was getting someone to listen. The pupil-popping high of beating Donegal got mixed in with the fact that Cavan hadn’t beaten them in their last four attempts – the longest streak of Monaghan dominance over their neighbours since the 1920s. As Cavan goalkeeper Paul O’Dowd remarked with pure glee afterwards, “Monaghan thought they were in the All-Ireland final”. Monaghan’s Dick Clerkin is likely to be given the task of curbing Gearóid McKiernan’s influence in the Cavan midfield. Photograph: Cathal Noonan/Inpho.Monaghan’s superior free-taking ability should sway it over Cavan Tyrone’s Justin McMahon and Peter Harte get up close and personal with Donegal’s Michael Murphy in Ballybofey last week. Photograph: Cathal Noonan/InphoUlster football championship the saviour of the All-Ireland summer During the National Hurling League relegation play-off against Kilkenny Clare’s Shane O’Donnell gave notice that, after a litany of injuries, he was finally ready to deliver on the promise of two years ago. Photograph: Cathal Noonan/Inpho.Clare and Limerick need to show their intent Championship 2015 Harooing crowd The rest barely needs writing. Monaghan kicked nine wides to Cavan’s one. O’Dowd saved a penalty. Fintan Cahill scored 1-2 for Cavan to seal only his second championship win in eight seasons. His first had come three weeks earlier against Antrim. Soundtracked by what Seán Moran called “a great harooing crowd of Cavan people”, the underdogs bit and tore Monaghan’s year to chunks. That they went on to lose the Ulster final is probably worth a mention. But you wouldn’t want to overstate it either. “A member of my own club,” remembers Cahill, “an elderly gentleman from Cross[-Mullagh], ran into me the Sunday after we lost the Ulster final. He met me coming out of the chapel after Mass and took me by the elbow. ‘Don’t have a long face on you, young Cahill,’ he said. ‘It was a good summer. We got the hay in and them f**kers from Monaghan was bet.’” In the pantheon of great GAA rivalries, Cavan and Monaghan wouldn’t be minded to make any grand claims for theirs. Mostly, that’s because their interest in what the outside world makes of the occasional skirmish between them would be limited in the extreme. They haven’t met in an Ulster final since 1952 and for most of the intervening period, they’ve been two bald men fighting over a comb. But Homer made The Iliad from such a local row. Cavan and Monaghan hold the record for the number of draws between two counties in championship football. They’ve met 54 times – 27 wins for Cavan, 14 for Monaghan, 13 draws. For context, Cork and Kerry hold the record for matches played at 111 but have only finished level 11 times. That said, numbers don’t reveal very much of anything about the flavour of the rivalry. It’s more dug into the land than scrawled onto scoreboards. Denis Carolan’s History of Monaghan 1660-1860 refers to intercounty football matches going back to the late 1700s. “Large crowds attended and great excitement prevailed over the district affected,” Carolan wrote. “These games were very coarsely played and many permanent injuries were received at them.” Plus ça change, as they say out around Shercock and Carrick. For as long as there has been football, there has been enmity between the counties. Maghera (Cavan) beat Inniskeen (Monaghan) in the first Ulster final in 1888, although it took three games to find a winner, the first of them scoreless. Though the GAA in Ulster first took root in Cavan, it was a pair of Monaghan administrators – Eoin O’Duffy and JP Whelan – that modernised the Ulster Council in the 1910s. Invited a Nazi O’Duffy would become a hugely controversial figure in later life as a Fine Gael TD, a self-promoting fascist and ally of General Franco, not to mention the man who invited a Nazi to the 1940 All-Ireland final. In Cavan though, they’d regard all that as minor stuff. Far more pertinent was the stroke he pulled – or tried to pull – after the replayed 1915 Ulster final. Cavan beat Monaghan in Clones by a point but a Monaghan goal was apparently disallowed by Cavan umpires. On top of that, Monaghan supporters were in high dudgeon afterwards about the encroachment of Cavan fans onto the pitch while Monaghan had the ball. O’Duffy, who was Ulster secretary at the time, demanded the result be overturned at the next meeting of the Ulster Council. The Cavan delegates, not unreasonably, told him what he could do with his demands and refused to send anyone to the meeting. They didn’t bargain on Whelan, in his role as Ulster president, approving O’Duffy’s request and awarding the title to Monaghan. The brazenness of the stroke from the two Monaghan men earned them a rebuke from Central Council, who overruled them and declared Cavan champions. The row very nearly had far-reaching consequences. Cavan wanted the two Monaghan men kicked out of the Ulster Council on account of their rank and obvious bias but O’Duffy and Whelan dug in and kept their posts. So enraged were Cavan by this that they tried to break away and set up a fifth GAA province. They invited Meath, Louth, Westmeath and Longford to join them and proposed to call it Tara. It didn’t fly in the end but it’s as close as the GAA has come to genuine structural change in all of its 131 years. All because Cavan and Monaghan couldn’t play nice. On the pitch, they were peers for a while in those early days but from the 1930s onwards, Cavan soon put clear water between them. Monaghan didn’t win a single game against their neighbours between 1932 and 1988, during which time Cavan won their five All-Irelands. Monaghan, by piffling contrast, have been in one All-Ireland final ever. It gets mentioned. “The goading is relentless,” says Nudie Hughes. “When we were going well in the ’80s and winning a first Ulster title for 41 years, all you heard from Cavan people was their glory years. You’re never let forget it. You’re standing up one end of the pitch waiting on the ball to come down to you and all you’re hearing is, ‘How many All-Irelands have you?’ “This was from boys who weren’t even born when Cavan were winning All-Irelands. They mightn’t even have been born the last time they won Ulster. But that glory years stuff is in their DNA. Those Cavan people will always have that over Monaghan people until Monaghan win an All-Ireland. Even though it’s all past tense, their ancestors have five All-Irelands and that’s the beginning and end of all conversations as far as they’re concerned.” The incidents have been legion through the years. In 1924, the Monaghan crowd rushed the press table and knocked it flying. In 1958, supporters from both sides chased the referee into the dressing room after a drawn replay, causing him to cancel extra-time and order up a third match to separate the sides. Games in the ’80s and ’90s broiled with tension and stray boots and elbows. Physically marked “It was tasty stuff,” says Hughes. “You needed your reflexes. I used to tell fellas going into those games to be ready to dance on hot fires and get your head down quick! Eugene Kearns marked me in ‘87 – as in marked me, physically marked me. The umpires had strong sunshades on that day in Breffni. They saw nothing.” “My first game for Cavan,” remembers Cahill, “I was playing on Ciaran Murray who had won an All Star only a year or two before. I got a great punch that day off my own man, Jim Reilly. Ciaran’s reflexes were better than mine and he was able to duck out of the way and Jim caught me full in the face. Players like Declan Loughman would absolutely eat you without salt. You got tough or you got killed.” If the quality was never overly high, the ache for a result was constant. Monaghan arrived in Breffni Park in 1987 considered as one of the five best teams in the country only to lose by a couple of points. Hughes nearly got trampled in the rush of supporters onto the pitch afterwards. A year later, he was carried shoulder high from the pitch in Clones as they finally ended a 66-year wait for a victory against them. Shoulder high after an Ulster first-round match on May 22nd. Madness. “That’s what it meant to beat your neighbour,” he says. “Often, it didn’t matter what happened for the rest of the summer. You could be walking off the pitch thinking, ‘Well, we might not win Ulster but at least now they won’t either.’ That was the big thing, even in the years when we didn’t meet each other – who was going to be knocked out first? “The Ulster title means nothing this Sunday. You’re playing for pride. You’re playing for your history, your heritage and your people. You’re playing to keep your neighbour down. That’s the long and short of it. This is Ulster Championship, yes. But on Sunday, it’s not the Ulster title they’re going for. “This is what it’s about. It’s about putting your own imprint on the history books, to be able to say long into the future when people look back that we, the 2015 generation of footballers, we beat Cavan. We did our bit, just as we did in 2013. We were fortunate to get away with it in 2013 but that doesn’t matter – the result is the result. Monaghan will take that again on Sunday.” The day after the 1995 game, Cahill started a new job in Monaghan town as a financial advisor. Midway through his first morning, a client came in and started making small talk with one of his colleagues, oblivious to the new recruit sitting a few feet away. “Well, what did you think of the match?” “Ach, we’d have been alright if it wasn’t for that f**ker Cahill.” And the Cavan man laughed, revelling in the only sort of compliment that counts for anything between the two tribes. Back-handed, unwitting and totally, brutally sincere.
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Post by kerrygold on May 27, 2015 17:54:36 GMT
Warning for Joe Brolly as RTÉ insist similar comments ‘will not be tolerated’
Marty Morrissey has accepted a ‘heartfelt’ apology.
Brolly is next due to appear as originally scheduled on the Sunday Game Live on 14 June. Brolly is next due to appear as originally scheduled on the Sunday Game Live on 14 June. IT’S BEEN MADE clear to Joe Brolly that RTÉ will not accept any more of his ‘ill-conceived attempts at humour’. The Sunday Game pundit was forced to apologise last weekend after comparing Cavan’s ‘ugly’ style of football to his Donnybrook colleague Marty Morrissey. Today, RTÉ group head of sport, Ryle Nugent says he’s talked to Brolly about his future behaviour on air. “I have spoken with Joe Brolly about the comments he made in relation to RTE Sport’s GAA correspondent and commentator Marty Morrissey on last weekend’s Sunday Game Live broadcast,” Nugent writes in a statement. “Joe is acutely aware that his ill-conceived attempt at humour was both inappropriate and extremely hurtful and had no place in any broadcast. Further, Joe is fully cognisant of the fact that similar comments in any future broadcast cannot and will not be tolerated. “Joe Brolly has spoken at length with and offered a heartfelt apology to Marty Morrissey which was graciously accepted. All parties now consider this matter closed.” Brolly is next due to appear as originally scheduled on the Sunday Game Live on 14 June for the football double-header featuring Armagh v Donegal and Galway v Mayo. The controversy erupted when presenter Michael Lyster asked about Cavan’s style of play. “We’re starting to get used to it,” Brolly said of Cavan’s blanket defence approach. “I suppose in a way we’re just starting to live with it. I’ve referred to Cavan in recent years as the Black Death because the football has been as some people have said, as ugly as Marty Morrissey.” The former All-Ireland winner’s comments stunned Lyster with the presenter forcing Brolly to apologise immediately. “No, no, no,” was Lyster’s response. “I should apologise to the people of Cavan,” Brolly added. “Apologise to Marty Morrissey for a start,” Lyster then responded. At half-time, Brolly then apologised to his colleague on air by saying ‘it was said in the spirit of affection and not meant literally.’
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Post by southward on May 27, 2015 17:59:18 GMT
When is his apology to the Gooch coming out?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 28, 2015 16:21:11 GMT
Little tiny piece in yesterday's Bindo about Kerry's huge fundraising successes in the USA, you'd miss it if you blinked.
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Post by kerrygold on May 28, 2015 16:30:23 GMT
Pittance compared to the Dubs fund raising capacity.
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Post by Mickmack on May 28, 2015 20:14:30 GMT
There is a good case for Dublins largesse from AIG being distributed around all other counties to help with the cost of bringing teams up to Croker and paying hotels for etc. The whole thing is very skewed towards Dublin when you think about it.
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Post by kerrygold on May 28, 2015 20:29:32 GMT
Think of what the dubs could raise if they had Kerry's pedigree in the game.......................
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 28, 2015 22:35:00 GMT
Think of what the dubs could raise if they had Kerry's pedigree in the game....................... Still though, surprising nobody anywhere in the 'country' mentioned anything about Kerry's massive funding. Especially given they have alot less clubs etc to spend it on....................Not one mention on any forum. One tiny article in the rag. Where's Billy Keane on all of this? Very vocal up to now on other funding matters.............
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 29, 2015 7:16:34 GMT
Think of what the dubs could raise if they had Kerry's pedigree in the game....................... Still though, surprising nobody anywhere in the 'country' mentioned anything about Kerry's massive funding. Especially given they have alot less clubs etc to spend it on....................Not one mention on any forum. One tiny article in the rag. Where's Billy Keane on all of this? Very vocal up to now on other funding matters............. The less we hear from Billy Keane, on anything, the better for all of us. I've never come across a man who can write so much but say nothing at all and still find some way of giving a customary nod to a time spent at the beach in ballybunion or to John from Duagh who used drink in Listowel.
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Post by kerrygold on May 29, 2015 8:28:03 GMT
Think of what the dubs could raise if they had Kerry's pedigree in the game....................... Still though, surprising nobody anywhere in the 'country' mentioned anything about Kerry's massive funding. Especially given they have alot less clubs etc to spend it on....................Not one mention on any forum. One tiny article in the rag. Where's Billy Keane on all of this? Very vocal up to now on other funding matters............. I must go to specsavers, I can just make out the blob thing, but for the rest of your post it is just a blur................
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on May 29, 2015 9:45:21 GMT
With the Kerry panel being cut down for the first Munster Championship panel, those unfortunate to miss out include Shane Ryan, Jack McGuire, Daithi Casey and Conor Keane. As a result Daithi Casey, a teacher, has chosen to go to Michael Cusacks in San Francisco for the summer. Michael Cusacks have a number of Kerry lads with them already, notably Barry John Walsh.
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Post by kerrygold on May 29, 2015 10:26:28 GMT
With the Kerry panel being cut down for the first Munster Championship panel, those unfortunate to miss out include Shane Ryan, Jack McGuire, Daithi Casey and Conor Keane. As a result Daithi Casey, a teacher, has chosen to go to Michael Cusacks in San Francisco for the summer. Michael Cusacks have a number of Kerry lads with them already, notably Barry John Walsh. Is Conor Keane injured? seems strange to cut him loose?
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on May 29, 2015 11:19:11 GMT
With the Kerry panel being cut down for the first Munster Championship panel, those unfortunate to miss out include Shane Ryan, Jack McGuire, Daithi Casey and Conor Keane. As a result Daithi Casey, a teacher, has chosen to go to Michael Cusacks in San Francisco for the summer. Michael Cusacks have a number of Kerry lads with them already, notably Barry John Walsh. Is Conor Keane injured? seems strange to cut him loose? Not that I am aware of, he played the whole game against Mid Kerry anyway and was supposed to play well. Conor has that class and swagger about him that always makes him a dangerous player. A particularly strange decision in my eyes is to include Galvin in the panel, he has only trained a handful of times in the last month.
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Post by buck02 on May 29, 2015 11:28:38 GMT
Is Conor Keane injured? seems strange to cut him loose? Not that I am aware of, he played the whole game against Mid Kerry anyway and was supposed to play well. Conor has that class and swagger about him that always makes him a dangerous player. A particularly strange decision in my eyes is to include Galvin in the panel, he has only trained a handful of times in the last month. It cant be easy on the likes of Casey and Conor Keane to see Paul Galvin, who remember joined training late and has more or less played no club football in 2 years, be on the panel ahead of them. Now its probably down to the fact that we have a lot of options up front (and they are well down the pecking order) and Galvin is an option in the backs. I would still expect big things from Conor Keane in the next few years. Daithi was unlucky with the timing of his injury last year.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on May 29, 2015 11:39:38 GMT
We've enough forwards. Galvin was brought in for the Declan O'Sullivan role IMO although I'm very sceptical about it. Conor Keane needs a run in the league for a start anyway.
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on May 29, 2015 11:44:27 GMT
Not that I am aware of, he played the whole game against Mid Kerry anyway and was supposed to play well. Conor has that class and swagger about him that always makes him a dangerous player. A particularly strange decision in my eyes is to include Galvin in the panel, he has only trained a handful of times in the last month. It cant be easy on the likes of Casey and Conor Keane to see Paul Galvin, who remember joined training late and has more or less played no club football in 2 years, be on the panel ahead of them. Now its probably down to the fact that we have a lot of options up front (and they are well down the pecking order) and Galvin is an option in the backs. I would still expect big things from Conor Keane in the next few years. Daithi was unlucky with the timing of his injury last year. Ya they will find it tough to take. However, Conor is still only 20 years of age, he has bags of ability and I have no doubt he will feature for Kerry at some stage in the next few years. Daithi is a very good player but at times he is lacking something to bring him to intercounty level, maybe it is his aggression and his failure to impose his physicality on a game because he is a big powerful lad when he gets going. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to this decision, he is a player who struggles with confidence and this will be a blow to him. Going to San Fran in the summer and having a blow out might very well be what he needs.
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Post by skybluezone on May 29, 2015 13:20:09 GMT
Think of what the dubs could raise if they had Kerry's pedigree in the game....................... Still though, surprising nobody anywhere in the 'country' mentioned anything about Kerry's massive funding. Especially given they have alot less clubs etc to spend it on....................Not one mention on any forum. One tiny article in the rag. Where's Billy Keane on all of this? Very vocal up to now on other funding matters............. Jeez I read that article too Rashers, must have only been circulated to the Dublin Meeja! I note the bulk of the funding is to go towards finishing the Kerry Centre of Excellence at cannot remember the name of it now, apologies. And to continue the Centre of Excellence theme, I have been to a few Development Squad blitzes (or is it blitzi!) over the last few years and have stood watching these games in Centres of Excellence Louth (Darver), Kildare (Hawkfield), Wicklow (Rathnew) to name but a few. BTW who paid for all this? And fair play to Kerry for pushing on with the same initiative, with some private funding. Meanwhile Dublin struggle on with no plans afoot to build one of these places, we'll have to make do with the back of the airport (Starlights), St. Clares DCU, and on the winter nights the Dublin City Council all weather pitch down in Alfie Byrne Road, sharing it with a soccer club. Are Dublin not granted any access to central funds for capital development (boom boom)? Seeing as they raise the bulk of it...Funding my ars*e!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 29, 2015 13:52:18 GMT
Still though, surprising nobody anywhere in the 'country' mentioned anything about Kerry's massive funding. Especially given they have alot less clubs etc to spend it on....................Not one mention on any forum. One tiny article in the rag. Where's Billy Keane on all of this? Very vocal up to now on other funding matters............. Jeez I read that article too Rashers, must have only been circulated to the Dublin Meeja! I note the bulk of the funding is to go towards finishing the Kerry Centre of Excellence at cannot remember the name of it now, apologies. And to continue the Centre of Excellence theme, I have been to a few Development Squad blitzes (or is it blitzi!) over the last few years and have stood watching these games in Centres of Excellence Louth (Darver), Kildare (Hawkfield), Wicklow (Rathnew) to name but a few. BTW who paid for all this? And fair play to Kerry for pushing on with the same initiative, with some private funding. Meanwhile Dublin struggle on with no plans afoot to build one of these places, we'll have to make do with the back of the airport (Starlights), St. Clares DCU, and on the winter nights the Dublin City Council all weather pitch down in Alfie Byrne Road, sharing it with a soccer club. Are Dublin not granted any access to central funds for capital development (boom boom)? Seeing as they raise the bulk of it...Funding my ars*e! Arent the GAA building a Centre of Excellence in Blanch? Come off it now-the facilities in DCU are top notch and some of the Dublin clubs have better facilities than most counties. They also utilise the national facilities that are built in Dublin (ie the National Aquatic Centre)
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Post by kerrygold on May 29, 2015 15:12:08 GMT
Gavin to manage Dubs until 2017 Updated: Friday, 29 May 2015 13:10
Dublin manager Jim Gavin has confirmed that he will stay in charge of the Sky Blues until the end of the 2017 season.
Gavin won the All-Ireland title in his first season in charge in 2013 and led Dublin to their third Allianz Football League title in a row in April.
He revealed this morning that an extended term had been agreed with the Dublin County Board last November. Dublin will announce their team to play Longford in Sunday's Leinster Football Championship quarter-final (Live on RTÉ2 at 4pm) tonight but James McCarthy is definitely out with a foot injury. Rory O'Carroll is doubtful as he recovers from a hamstring tear but Paul Flynn is fit.
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Post by kerrygold on May 29, 2015 15:13:20 GMT
I'd imagine Jim and the dubs have a target of three from three championship outright wins over the next three seasons.
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Post by Mickmack on May 29, 2015 16:09:15 GMT
I watched Conor Keane from the Canel End as a minor and his ball handling skills and touch and "two footedness" were a joy to watch but then I thought.... is there a place any more for such corner forwards in the massed defence modern game unless you have the ball winning ability of Paul Geaney. Would Oliie Murphy, Bernard Flynn etc prosper today. I feel they would have to move out around the D or even as attacking wing backs to impact.
JOD was more effective v Donegal as the supplier rather than the finisher and it was the bigger men like Geaney and Donaghy than posed the scoring threat.
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Post by Mickmack on May 29, 2015 16:12:10 GMT
There seems to be a centre of excellance in every club in Dublin now. Parnells, Brigids, Sylvesters, Naomh Mernog.... Castleknocks too and that's just the northside. You cant throw an apple core out the window without hitting one. Most done in the boom years via deals with developers
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Post by donegalman on May 29, 2015 16:32:30 GMT
What exactly is a center of excellence? In my opinion it is a hyped up word that is an excuse to flush endless funds down the toilet in the name of development. Take PUC for example. A centre of excellence as well as a stadium revamp to justify spending 60 odd million euro on.
Centre of excellence seems to be 4 all weather fields side by side, wit parking facilities, and a huge club house for gombeens to network. Very little to do with football. In fact, you can achieve the same standard of training with a given number of footballs and cones. I am unsure about the need for extra pitches and the huge club house nonsense.
An av room, good changing facilities, one good pitch and one all weather field for bad weather and you are good to go.
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Post by skybluezone on May 30, 2015 1:44:52 GMT
There seems to be a centre of excellance in every club in Dublin now. Parnells, Brigids, Sylvesters, Naomh Mernog.... Castleknocks too and that's just the northside. You cant throw an apple core out the window without hitting one. Most done in the boom years via deals with developers Certainly Brigids and Mearnog, while fine facilities, are purely club driven. Castleknock, an upcoming club, don't even have dressing rooms, never mind being classified as a centre of excellence. For what its worth, I'm with Donegal and his views on a COE.
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2015 8:32:07 GMT
Where have all the big shocks gone in football? Martin Breheny EMAIL PUBLISHED 30/05/2015 Limerick v Cork, 2003 Munster Quarter-final, Páirc uí ChaoimhOPEN GALLERY 1 Limerick v Cork, 2003 Munster Quarter-final, Páirc uí Chaoimh If Dublin, Kerry and Mayo are to retain the Leinster, Munster and Connacht football titles respectively, they need to win seven games between them.
Their rivals include counties that have won five All-Ireland and 26 provincial titles between them over the last 20 years, yet a treble on Dublin (1/8), Kerry (1/2) and Mayo (10/11) would pay marginally over 3/1. Indeed, if it weren't for the venue (Pearse Stadium) of the Galway-Mayo Connacht semi-final, the defending champions would be priced even shorter to complete a five-timer. Therein rests a new difficulty for three of the four provincial championships. They lack competitiveness in recent times and, if anything, are becoming more of a monopoly than ever. Dublin are pursuing their second provincial five-in-a-row in 11 seasons. Mayo are two wins away from taking Connacht for a fifth successive year, something they last achieved in 1906-10, while Kerry have won four of the last five Munster titles. Ulster is different as it retains the sharp competitive edge that has always made it the most unpredictable of the provinces. That's very much the case again this year, with five of the remaining seven contenders priced between 13/8 (Monaghan) and 11/1 (Down). Monaghan's elevation to favouritism is down to them being on the perceived easier half of the draw (they play Antrim or Fermanagh in the semi-final), whereas Donegal, Armagh, Derry and Down are on the other side. Ulster is fine, certainly in terms of competitiveness. The last seven titles have been shared between Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal and Monaghan while Antrim, Fermanagh, Down and Derry reached finals. That leaves Cavan as the only county not to experience Ulster final day in that relatively short period. Indeed, they have not been in the final since 2001. The big issue in the other provinces is the sheer predictability of them all. Real shocks are now extremely rare, days when so-called superpowers are beaten against the odds. Pre-2001 that meant the end of the championship line and that awful empty feeling as the summer campaign came to a shuddering halt, sometimes quite early. It was raw and brutal and, in terms of providing value for money for counties who had spent heavily on preparing teams, was ridiculously wasteful. It also greatly restricted the GAA's exposure throughout the summer, something that didn't make sense then and certainly would not make sense now at a time when global sports are on TV every day of the year. Still, there was something beautifully exciting about having a big shot silenced, with no provision for a re-load. The introduction of the All-Ireland qualifiers in 2001 changed that, allowing provincial casualties a second chance. Naturally, the stronger counties fared better as it gave them another opportunity if things went wrong the first day. And, in the case of Kerry and Cork, it regularly presents one of them with an All-Ireland quarter-final place and the other with a Round 4 qualifier game. It's all so cosy for Munster's 'Big Two'. Contrast that with Tyrone, who will enter the qualifiers in Round 1 this year. Donegal have already beaten Tyrone, yet they, too, will be in Round 1 if they lose to Armagh in the quarter-final. The issue of whether the All-Ireland qualifiers in their current format are still fit for purpose is becoming increasingly relevant, but even more important is the lop-sidedness of the provincial championships, apart from Ulster. It's only 12 and 11 years respectively since Laois and Westmeath beat Dublin in the Leinster championship. Seven years ago, Westmeath ran Dublin to two points in the semi-final in front of a crowd of 67,075 for a stand-alone fixture in Croke Park. Five years ago, Meath beat Dublin by nine points in the Leinster semi-final; four years ago Kildare ran them to a point and three years ago, Laois came within three points of them in the All-Ireland quarter-final. Wexford too, did quite well against Dublin on a few occasions too. Now, there's a feeling that anything less than a seven-point defeat by Dublin is a reasonably good performance by their Leinster rivals. Munster too has returned to the Kerry-Cork duopoly after being broken by Clare in 1992 and 1997 and seriously challenged by Limerick and Tipperary in the early years of the new Millennium. Unlucky
Tipperary came within seconds of beating Cork in the 2002 Munster final and, a year later, Limerick beat the Rebels in the championship for the first time for the first time since 1965. And in Páirc Uí Chaoimh too. Limerick were very unlucky to be held to a draw to Kerry in the 2004 Munster final and ran them close in other campaigns too around that time. Sligo's win over Galway in the 2007 Connacht final was their first success over the Tribesmen since 1975. Sligo have beaten Galway twice since then, but that's more a reflection of the latter's decline than any great surge by the Markievicz men. After all, Galway lost to Antrim, Westmeath and Wexford and were run to a point by Tipperary and Waterford in the qualifiers over the last decade, results that wouldn't have been countenanced in maroon-and-white land in the glory days when they were winning All-Ireland titles under John O'Mahony. The reality is that lower standards in all but a minority of counties have greatly reduced the possibility of surprises, both in the provincial championships and the qualifiers. Granted, Longford, who were relegated to Division 4 last year, later beat Derry, who were beaten Division 1 finalists, in the qualifiers, but their subsequent wipe-out by Tipperary suggested that the win in Celtic Park had a freakish dimension. The shortage of upsets is a major negative for the Leinster, Connacht and Munster championships. The extent of the imbalances is underpinned by Longford's 25/1 odds to beat Dublin (1/200) tomorrow. Longford were promoted to Division 3 last month, yet the markets are quoting Dublin as tight as 4/6 to win by 16 or more points tomorrow. Dublin should be warm favourites but has the gap between them and a county who ran them to two points in their last championship clash in 2006 widened so much? And if so, why? The question of whether the provincial championship system is any longer appropriate remains a matter of hot debate but, to some degree, it's missing the point. The provincial system is clearly unfair, but it's now being impacted on by another corrosive issue, the absence of unpredictability everywhere except Ulster. Tomorrow's Dublin-Longford clash is most unlikely to help in that regard. Leinster is all the weaker for that. Provincial tremors 1995-2015
The top 10 upsets in the provincial football championship over the last 20 years 1 LIMERICK 0-16 CORK 0-6 2003 MUNSTER QUARTERFINAL, PÁIRC UÍ CHAOIMH Cork were defending Munster champions, but were blown away in what was Limerick first win over the Rebels since 1965. Muiris Gavin scored 0-9 for the Liam Kearns- managed Limerick squad. They later beat Clare before losing the final to Kerry by five points. 2 WESTMEATH 0-14 DUBLIN 0-12 2004 LEINSTER QUARTER-FINAL, CROKE PARK Managed by Páidí O Sé, Westmeath recorded their first championship win over Dublin since 1967. It launched a glory campaign which saw them beat Wexford and Laois, winning the Leinster title for the first time. 3 MONAGHAN 0-13 ARMAGH 0-9 2003 ULSTER 1ST ROUND, CLONES The injury-hit reigning All-Ireland champions didn’t get past the Ulster round, having been ambushed by a Monaghan team that had lost to Fermanagh by eight points and to Kerry by 17 points in the 2002 championship. Armagh recovered and reached the All-Ireland final. 4 CLARE 1-14 CORK 1-13 1997 MUNSTER SEMI-FINAL, ENNIS Martin Daly’s stoppage-time goal clinched Clare’s first championship win over Cork for 65 years. Larry Tompkins, who was in his first season as Cork manager, led them to the League final lost to Kerry, only to be stunned by Clare some weeks later. Clare lost the Munster final to Kerry by five points. 5 DONEGAL 1-11 TYRONE 0-9 2004 ULSTER SEMI-FINAL, CLONES Colm McFadden scored 1-7 as Donegal out-gunned the defending All-Ireland champions in every department. Donegal lost to Armagh in the final by 13 points. Tyrone lost the All-Ireland quarter-final to Mayo. 6 DERRY 1-8 TYRONE 0-5 2006 ULSTER QUARTER-FINAL, OMAGH As in 2004, Tyrone found in 2006 that being reigning All-Ireland champions, counted for nothing in Ulster. The scored a meagre 0-5 at home against a Derry team that were well beaten by Donegal in the semi-final. 7 LAOIS 0-16 DUBLIN 0-14 2003 LEINSTER SEMIFINAL, CROKE PARK Laois had made excellent progress under Mick O’Dwyer but weren’t expected to dethrone the reigning Leinster champions. However, they rose splendidly to the occasion and went on to win the title for the first time in 57 years. 8 MEATH 5-9 DUBLIN 0-13 2010 LEINSTER SEMIFINAL, CROKE PARK Meath beating Dublin is not or least that used to be the case unusual but this was different as they hit Pat Gilroy’s men for five goals before beating Louth controversially in the final. 9 WICKLOW 0-13 KILDARE 0-9 2008 LEINSTER 1ST ROUND Kieran’s McGeeney’s first championship game as Kildare manager ended in defeat against the Mick O’Dwyer-inspired Wicklow side. It was Wicklow’s first championship win in Croke Park and only their second in championship history against Kildare. 10 LONDON 2-11 LEITRIM 1-13 2013 CONNACHT SEMI-FINAL REPLAY, DR. HYDE PARK The third leg of a big treble for London who had beaten Sligo and drawn with Leitrim before clinching a place in the final. London lost heavily to Mayo but it was still a remarkable season for Paul Coggins’ men. Indo Sport
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Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2015 8:36:07 GMT
The quarterly pop at Kerry from Breheny, he nevers mentions Galway's and Mayo's similar route through the west. He is sounding like a broken parrot at this stage.
Write about restructuring 4 regional groupings of eight and gives us all a break Martin like a good man.
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 2, 2015 13:04:14 GMT
Dublin footballers may get bye to provincial semi-final to limit damaging defeats Colm Keys Twitter
02/06/2015
Leinster Council poised to follow ‘Kilkenny model’ in bid to limit damaging defeats Dublin could be afforded a bye straight into the 2016 Leinster football semi-final if they retain their title next month.
Leinster Council chairman John Horan says the matter will be put on the agenda prior to the provincial championship draws in October as their dominance threatens to become even more pronounced. During Kilkenny's vice-like grip on the Leinster hurling championship the provincial body arranged their draw so the champions could enter at the penultimate stage. Horan feels the time is right now to put the same question to Leinster delegates regarding Dublin if their dominance extends to a tenth title in 11 years. "We gave Kilkenny a bye to a Leinster semi-final. Do we give Dublin a bye into a football semi-final?" he asked. "That's something we have to look at and it will be arrived at by democratic decision." Dublin have won 30 of their last 32 Leinster Championship games and last Sunday's 27-point hammering of Longford matched their biggest win in that sequence since their 4-26 to 0-11 Leinster semi-final win over Westmeath in 2009. Twelve of their 30 wins have been by a double-digit margin with nine by 16 points or more. The idea of the champions entering later is to allow lesser lights in the province to become more battle-hardened by winning a couple of earlier rounds before they are tasked with meeting them. Dublin themselves may not be in agreement as it could potentially leave them without a game for three months if they didn't qualify for league play-offs. Horan said criticism of the province is unfair and he stressed that they weren't "naive" about the problem their football championship faced. Leinster brought a motion to Congress seeking permission to run a championship round robin for 'weaker' counties but it was defeated by 12 votes. "We did try something, we're not going around with our heads in the sand," said Horan. Irish Independent
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 2, 2015 13:16:14 GMT
They could take this a step further and give Dublin a bye into the Leinster Final and play a Leinster championship among the remaining teams for the right to play Dublin in the Leinster final.
The gap between Dublin and the rest of Leinster is only going to accelerate as modern advances and capital investments in the game are further developed in the Capital. Rural Leinster won't be able to compete.
Leinster have a serious issue on their hands now which must further advance the debate on retaining the provincial structure as they currently stand.
Four regional groups of eight are imminent now I would think. Each group of eight will need three counties that have the ability to qualify for the top two places in each regional group to make the groups competitive.
Fixtures at club level are also a shambles under the current format that retains a numerically uneven provincial structure.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Jun 2, 2015 13:21:44 GMT
www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kieran-mcgeeney-dubs-and-kerry-hit-harder-than-any-ulster-team-31271124.htmlKieran McGeeney: 'Dubs and Kerry hit harder than any Ulster team'McGeeney believes different refereeing standards apply to top twoDonegal are "not in the same ball park" as Dublin or Kerry when it comes to physical contact, Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney has suggested.McGeeney, who is preparing his team for next week's provincial quarter-final with Donegal in the Athletic Grounds, feels the intensity of the Ulster Championship makes games in the province look more physical than they are. But when it comes to harder hits by bigger men, McGeeney feels Dublin and Kerry are in a league of their own with Mayo beginning to catch up. "I would put Kerry and Dublin way above Donegal in terms of physical contact," he said. "The physicality is seen more in Ulster than in other provinces. "You look at it a different way but from a playing point of view, I can categorically state they (Donegal) are not even in the same ball park. Derogatory "They might be closer because of the northern thing. But in terms of actual physicality, you are on about bigger men and harder hitters. "In fairness, Mayo have stepped up too in the last couple of years in terms of the size of the men they have and the way they hit," he said. McGeeney acknowledges that may come out as derogatory but is not intended to be. In fact, he cites the All-Ireland semi-final replay between Kerry and Mayo as the perfect template for football but sees too much inconsistency between referees for that to happen on a regular basis. "All games should be played like that but no one else referees a game like it. We are not allowed to play like that. There were rows, bibs torn up, fellas thrown over signs, there was all sorts of things and not a dicky bird. "It was great football, in fact it was the best game of the year. The doctor got pushed over in our game and it should not happen, but the maor foirne got his bib ripped apart (in Limerick). It is just looked at in a different way. "I think football should be played like that," he said. "Hurling is played like that but in fairness to hurling the players get up and get on with it. When I say that, people think that I am being derogatory but I am not. I am being the opposite. "That's why I always enjoyed playing against those teams because I think you were allowed to play that way. I definitely think they (games against Dublin and Kerry) were refereed differently. Basically, it comes down to whatever type of game the referee wants it to be. "They'll (refereeing officials) deny that and say it's not true but we don't have the rules to play the game the way we want to see the game played." McGeeney feels frees in hurling are much harder earned than Gaelic football. "If they lie down in hurling the referee just doesn't give them the free whereas if we (footballers) lie down holding onto somebody's arm, we get it straight away." McGeeney is reluctant to engage too much in the debate on sledging but believes it is "present in all sports". "You have a competitive arena and two men banging heads off each other. They are going to say stuff to each other. Some people are nastier than others, but it happens," he said. "I do think there are lines that you would hope people would not cross. Maybe manners is not the right word, but in terms of being human, understanding people's background." Dublin's Jim Gavin believes managers have the power to control the issue better and McGeeney feels no matter how teams try to portray themselves a certain level of sledging exists in them all. "I have been on the sideline for a lot of games against a lot of teams and it has existed in all of them, no matter how pure you would like to paint yourself," he stated. "It comes down to the individual, it's how you react to somebody rubbing your hair when you miss a point? "How you react when someone leans into your back or hits you a dunt and tells you to get up or stop crying? "Some people, if things happen in their lives that become public, that's a problem when you are in a public arena. That's going to be thrown back at you, regardless of what it is. "It's happened years ago. But if some of the stuff that is being reported has been said, I think it's terrible. You would hope as a human being you wouldn't say those things," he said. "You just don't like going into it, because it affects things. "I have had things said to me by people that are very high-profile. People think butter wouldn't melt in their mouth. But you just get on with it. "You should always carry yourself with some sort of decorum or class. There are some lines you should not cross. There are times you will lose your temper and you will say things you regret in the heat of the battle." McGeeney feels apologies should always be forthcoming when the line he speaks of is crossed. "Some people's personal lives become public and people use that against them. I would think if you did, then you should hold your hands up and apologise, because you can move on. "We are trying to do things with our (Armagh) Academy, with our young players and the need to understand that better people make better players. "There is nothing wrong with getting stuck in and being competitive. Like all sports, people will look at the lines and see how far they can push them. I remember being given off to for saying something to somebody in the Ulster Championship and I wasn't. "I was responding to something they said to me. I would have always felt I didn't need to do that, but you can get caught in conversation. "I am on about some big games recently and I have heard some things said by top players. They don't mean them, I think, most of the time." l Armagh County Board is hosting a fundraising 'Night at the Dogs' at Dundalk Stadium on Saturday night next (7.30). Tickets cost €20 and are still available. Irish Independent
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 2, 2015 17:08:33 GMT
Interesting comments from McGeeney on the week of the Armagh Donegal game. He must be looking for a war of attrition with Donegal in a low scoring, physical and defensive type game. 14 or 15 points will probably win this one.
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