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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 23, 2015 22:17:29 GMT
Only two players with 5 All-Stars? The oldest two players? Longest in the squad? Al Brogan has five All-Stars? If so, what years? Of course he doesn't, I made it up, and I couldn't care less who has how many All-Stars. All-Stars here are what's known as "the culchie popularity contest". Only thing that really matters is number of National League medals
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Post by leesider on Apr 24, 2015 11:53:07 GMT
Fierce contrary that Cork crowd! Loads of lads left after CC left, lots of dissatisfaction with Cuthbert since he came in, and now since things started getting better again most of the lads who left are back. The hormones must be at yis something terrible Delorean wha? One of the lads who left are back. It was a big surprise when Alan O' Connor retired in 2013 as he was still relatively young. I'd say it was more his work situation that prompted his retirement. That situation must have changed so he is now able to commit to training etc. He was never a world-beater in the first place but we are short of options in midfield so I am delighted he is back. Beggars can't be choosers and all that.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 24, 2015 11:55:36 GMT
Fierce contrary that Cork crowd! Loads of lads left after CC left, lots of dissatisfaction with Cuthbert since he came in, and now since things started getting better again most of the lads who left are back. The hormones must be at yis something terrible Delorean wha? He was never a world-beater in the first place... Feck it he put in some powerful performances over the years.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 24, 2015 12:03:24 GMT
He was never a world-beater in the first place... Feck it he put in some powerful performances over the years. More consistent in the big games than Aidan Walsh also IMO.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 24, 2015 16:05:24 GMT
Feck it he put in some powerful performances over the years. More consistent in the big games than Aidan Walsh also IMO. I'd agree with that. Though I wonder how much does the hurling affect Walsh's football?
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 24, 2015 18:16:20 GMT
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Post by southward on Apr 24, 2015 20:26:01 GMT
More consistent in the big games than Aidan Walsh also IMO. I'd agree with that. Though I wonder how much does the hurling affect Walsh's football? Well, he's jacked in the football in favour of the hurling, so I suppose it's affected it a lot, really.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2015 9:32:01 GMT
Robbie Kelleher: ‘If I was a club player now, I think I’d go off and play rugby’
Saturday, April 25, 2015 By Michael Moynihan Robbie Kelleher brings a double perspective to bear on Dublin and the GAA.
An All-Ireland winner with Kevin Heffernan’s great Dubs side of the 70s and an economist with Davy Stockbrokers, he injects some realism into last year’s suggestions that the Dublin GAA juggernaut, well-financed, all-conquering, was going to rule for years.
“There may be some justification for it, but I felt that the hype surrounding Dublin last year, certainly, was greatly exaggerated — five in a row, all that kind of stuff.
“The fear that Dublin is going to completely dominate Gaelic football, which appeared this time last year because they were playing well, that’s exaggerated.
“That said, I certainly think the GAA is now very strong in Dublin, and almost unrecognisably so compared to when I was playing, almost 40 years ago. At that stage, it was almost dead in the water.”
Kelleher sees a significant dividend for Dublin GAA at club level.
“As recently as 10 years ago, the club scene would have been dominated in Dublin by some big clubs, the likes of Kilmacud and Ballyboden, but that’s much better now, the power is more widespread. You have Cuala, Ballymun are strong, and that’s a good sign.
“I don’t know if anyone ever counts up all the kids who come along on a Saturday morning for sessions at GAA clubs in Dublin, but those numbers are incredible.
“The GAA is incredibly strong in Dublin now. I’ve lived in Stillorgan now for the last 40 years, and if you went back, that wouldn’t have been a traditional GAA area at all, but now if you go down to the shopping centre, the jerseys you see predominantly on the kids are Kilmacud Crokes or Dublin county jerseys.
“You’d rarely see Manchester United jerseys, maybe the odd Liverpool jersey, but it’s incredible compared to where we were even 20 years ago, to see boys and girls alike walking around with hurleys.
“Obviously that growth and strength has been feeding into minor and U21 success in football, and to an extent in hurling, but we’re a long way from the dominance people were talking about last year.”
Kelleher points to counties like Kerry, Donegal and Mayo, traditional victims of emigration, as a counter to suggestions economically strong counties dominate: “Not that I want to be critical of Cork, but it’s 10 years since they won a hurling All-Ireland, and they haven’t been going well at minor either.”
Still, success also brings challenges.
“As I say, the reemergence of traditional clubs like Ballymun and Na Fianna, the emergence of Raheny, Clontarf and Cuala and so on, that’s encouraging — but we need more.
“I’m involved in (Kilmacud) Crokes and I’ve argued that the club is far too big for its own good — the 150 six-year-olds who come down there every Saturday morning, we just don’t have the facilities to deal with them, while St Olaf’s up the road is struggling.
“I think it’d be far better for Crokes and Olaf’s, not to mention the kids themselves, if half of them went up to Olaf’s. But like everything else in life, a brand gets created.”
The other problem in the capital is one familiar to GAA members everywhere.
“The fixture list. I think one GAA President after another has paid lip service to this and done nothing about it.
“If you’re a pure club player, a footballer or hurler just playing for the club, but you have teammates who are on inter-county teams or playing for college teams, then unless a situation is created where there isn’t a clash of fixtures, you don’t need a PhD to work out you won’t play very often.
“The fixture list in Dublin is shocking. The championship will start in early May in Dublin, 32 teams playing straight knock-out, so half of the teams in Dublin will be gone out of the championship in the first week in May. Some other counties are better at managing fixtures — Cork aren’t bad, in fairness.
“But it’s hard to keep going. I was involved with the minors in Crokes a few years ago and we had two matches in June, July, August and September.
"You go up to the club grounds in August, you can hear the birds singing and the ground is in perfect condition; go up there on a cold, wet January evening, though, and there’s hardly a tiny spot of ground available for training.
“If I were a club player now, I think I’d go off and play rugby. What we’re offering the club player is very poor, and we’ve been talking about it since I was playing. President after president comes in and says the club is at the heart of the GAA. Lip service.
“The club is at the bottom of the pile. Forget inter-county, it plays second fiddle to the college scene as well; it is absolutely at the bottom and that’s a threat in Dublin, and in other counties as well.”
Kelleher’s background leads him to other questions, such as stadia (“Do you need four stadia — Cork, Limerick, Thurles and Killarney — within an hour of each other?”).
The finances of the GAA could also bear some scrutiny, he thinks.
“It’s fantastic to see a company like AIG get involved with Dublin. That’s not something that would have happened years ago. The GAA would never have had the brand that would have attracted a company like that.
“I think it’d be interesting if someone did a comprehensive analysis of the finances of the GAA, in terms of the individual units — clearly the finances of Croke Park are very strong, and as I understand it, the finances of the provincial councils are pretty strong.
“But at county level... some counties, like Dublin and Cork, are okay, but there are some counties which are absolutely broke. And then if you get down to club level, there’s a significant number of clubs in serious financial difficulty.
"I also always had a bee in my bonnet over the proceeds of provincial matches — if Cork play Kerry in Killarney in front of 40,000 people, the Munster Council get all the money. Crazy. Same for Dublin and Meath if they fill Croke Park with 80,000 people. It all goes to the Leinster Council.
“I’m not sure they should have access to all that money when there are counties with serious financial problems, and clubs with the same problems. The money should be directed towards those.”
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 25, 2015 9:32:55 GMT
Plenty of food for thought in Robbie Kelleher's article.
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Post by delorean on Apr 25, 2015 10:33:14 GMT
Fierce contrary that Cork crowd! Loads of lads left after CC left, lots of dissatisfaction with Cuthbert since he came in, and now since things started getting better again most of the lads who left are back. The hormones must be at yis something terrible Delorean wha? Hi Rashers - Yeah I can only echo what Leesider said with regards your question. The majority of those that retired were on their last legs and retirement was probably overdue in some cases. Alan O'Connor and obviously Ciaran Sheehan were the exceptions, but it was well documented that it was due to work/travel commitments that O'Connor was forced to step away. Rumours were rife of unrest in the camp but I never heard anything concrete, just idle speculation which obviously multiplies when things go wrong on the field. Anyway, one can only assume that management went in search of O'Connor, and not the other way around. He seems like an unassuming sort so I doubt he'd just swan in and offer his services after the tough winter slog is over. Bit harsh on Walsh I think with the comparison. Walsh, at 20 years of age, was far more prominent than O'Connor in the biggest game of all, the 2010 final and was arguably unlucky not to get man of the match that day. He did pick up an All Star and repeated the feat two years later. He's a lot younger also and was learning all the time. Their performances are measured differently anyway, as Walsh is expected to contribute on the scoreboard much more than O'Connor, and invariably did. Both players have been disappointing at times, each outplayed against Donegal in the 2012 semi final and O'Connor, in particular, was run ragged in the defeat to Dublin in 2013. To be fair, he hadn't the legs around to cover for him that day, which shouldn't be an issue now. O'Connor did tend to shine in Killarney alright, but they weren't necessarily the biggest games. Anyway, great to have him back as an option, he definitely has a lot of what we're lacking at the moment.
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Post by leesider on Apr 26, 2015 19:44:52 GMT
It's probably true that Alan was more consistent than Aidan Walsh but that's not saying much, ha-ha. It remains to be seen if he can get back to the level of performance he had when he was last in the Cork jersey as he had better players around him then. On the evidence of today he will need to be play really well to drag this current Cork team up to a higher level.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2015 8:12:20 GMT
Karl Lacey makes jobs forecast Wednesday, April 29, 2015 By John Fogarty GAA Correspondent
Karl Lacey can see more inter-county players taking career breaks to concentrate on their football and hurling.
March 2014
Donegal’s four-time All Star made the comment after deciding this year to make a bigger commitment to the county.
Like Kerry’s Darran O’Sullivan, he has been involved in some part-time promotional work with Sky Sports.
Yesterday, he helped launch the GAA’s Kelloggs Cul Camps but is in no full-time employment having completed a masters degree in sports performance in UL in January.
“I have good support around me with my family, they are happy to do this for the next few months,” he said of not having a full-time job.
“I don’t know what way it is going to go with the GAA but it is something that is going to become a lot more popular with players.
“People are putting employment behind them, putting a back seat on employment, maybe putting college on hold for a year or two just to concentrate on their training. Maybe it might be something the GAA would look into.”
Lacey and his girlfriend Ciara have an eight-month-old baby boy Noah to consider too but he has noticed how beneficial the break has been.
“It makes a huge difference. It’s unbelievable. I only kind of realise how much of a difference it makes now that I’m doing it.
“For me it was into the car; straight out of the car; into training; back into the car for another four hours and you’re just in bits the next day.
“The body doesn’t recover. Whereas now, you have the day to go to the swimming pool and do your recovery work.
“You’re not rushing on the road; stopping at petrol stations to eat sandwiches.
“You’re at home and you’re cooking good meals for yourself — breakfast and lunch.
“You get your pre-training meal three hours beforehand; you’re not jumping in to grab a sandwich at the petrol station and eating it while you’re driving.
“Things like that make a massive difference. I think it’s becoming more popular nearly.”
KEYWORDS: Karl Lacey
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2015 8:14:23 GMT
This articles adds further credence to recent comments from Joe Brolly regarding the effects pursuing an intercouty playing career has on the working lives of the players.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Apr 29, 2015 9:08:45 GMT
Aidan Walsh at 20 had to potential to become the best midfielder in the country. There were comparisons to a young Jacko at that stage. The flaws in his game such as shooting from all angles, over carrying the ball, over emhpasis on attacking, were never coached out of him and he seemed to get terrible stick from the cork supporters. Cork footballers over the last 10 years have totally underachieved mainly due to poor management and coaching. Kerrigan, Shields, Goulding and a lot more have only scratched the surface of their underage potential. Kerry seem to have it cracked by letting players sit in the squad and learn their trade before making the step up. Johnny Buckley, Donncha Walsh, Lyne to name 3 were on the tail end of the panel for a number of years.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Apr 29, 2015 11:46:14 GMT
Seamus makes an interesting point. I think it is very important to give young lads adequate time to ‘grow their feathers’ It’s a practice that has benefited Kerry football in the recent past and is happening with the present panel of players. I cringe sometimes when I hear people suggesting that a particular underage player is better than an established senior and should be fast-tracked onto Championship football. The danger of the kid who leaves the nest without feathers – one flap and the cat has him!
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2015 11:48:38 GMT
Seamus makes an interesting point. I think it is very important to give young lads adequate time to ‘grow their feathers’ It’s a practice that has benefited Kerry football in the recent past and is happening with the present panel of players. I cringe sometimes when I hear people suggesting that a particular underage player is better than an established senior and should be fast-tracked onto Championship football. The danger of the kid who leaves the nest without feathers – one flap and the cat has him! Colm Cooper and Maurice Fitzgerald being two obvious exceptions to this in recent times as both came straight in from minor and performed.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 29, 2015 12:51:52 GMT
Aidan Walsh at 20 had to potential to become the best midfielder in the country. There were comparisons to a young Jacko at that stage. The flaws in his game such as shooting from all angles, over carrying the ball, over emhpasis on attacking, were never coached out of him and he seemed to get terrible stick from the cork supporters. Cork footballers over the last 10 years have totally underachieved mainly due to poor management and coaching. Kerrigan, Shields, Goulding and a lot more have only scratched the surface of their underage potential. Kerry seem to have it cracked by letting players sit in the squad and learn their trade before making the step up. Johnny Buckley, Donncha Walsh, Lyne to name 3 were on the tail end of the panel for a number of years. I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Apr 29, 2015 14:25:41 GMT
Aidan Walsh at 20 had to potential to become the best midfielder in the country. There were comparisons to a young Jacko at that stage. The flaws in his game such as shooting from all angles, over carrying the ball, over emhpasis on attacking, were never coached out of him and he seemed to get terrible stick from the cork supporters. Cork footballers over the last 10 years have totally underachieved mainly due to poor management and coaching. Kerrigan, Shields, Goulding and a lot more have only scratched the surface of their underage potential. Kerry seem to have it cracked by letting players sit in the squad and learn their trade before making the step up. Johnny Buckley, Donncha Walsh, Lyne to name 3 were on the tail end of the panel for a number of years. I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player Seamus Scanlon had a similar problem over the course of his career. Pat O'Shea and Jack O'Connor did a great job on him to the extent that in the 2009 All Ireland final he had 20 possessions and no turnovers including many 30-40 yard passes. I always felt Counihan gave Walsh too much free rein especially with his shooting! Kerry players seem to improve a lot with their skill levels- Paul Galvin's foot passing in 2004 vs the exhibition in Parc Ui Caoimh is the best example i can think of. Tuesday, September 22, 2009 THE invaluable contribution of one the quiet and unsung heroes of Kerry’s All-Ireland winning squad has emerged as one of the key pointers from in-depth analysis of Sunday’s final from championship sponsors Vodafone. The individual statistics show that Seamus Scanlon had the perfect day in the possession stakes as he was on the ball all of 20 times during the course of the game and had an unblemished pass completion rate, finding a colleague on each and every occasion. Only his midfield colleague Darragh O Sé and Cork’s Nicholas Murphy won possession more than Scanlon (21 times each) but neither managed Scanlon’s 100% completion rate – O Sé failing with just three passes and Murphy with five. Scanlon’s showing is indicative of an incredibly high degree of consistency. He won possession 23 times against Meath in the semi-final when he failed to complete just one pass while in the drawn All-Ireland semi-final against Cork, he won possession 25 times and hit a 100% completion rate.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2015 14:53:47 GMT
Wasn't there a movie made about Seamus Scanlons perfromance in that final!!!!
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2015 14:58:18 GMT
mention of Paul Galvin.... I am told that he was completely off the pace for Finuge in the intermediate match and his man outscored him by getting two points. It will be a big ask of him at 35 to have an impact for Kerry this summer
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 29, 2015 15:11:23 GMT
I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player Seamus Scanlon had a similar problem over the course of his career. Pat O'Shea and Jack O'Connor did a great job on him to the extent that in the 2009 All Ireland final he had 20 possessions and no turnovers including many 30-40 yard passes. I always felt Counihan gave Walsh too much free rein especially with his shooting! Kerry players seem to improve a lot with their skill levels- Paul Galvin's foot passing in 2004 vs the exhibition in Parc Ui Caoimh is the best example i can think of. Tuesday, September 22, 2009 THE invaluable contribution of one the quiet and unsung heroes of Kerry’s All-Ireland winning squad has emerged as one of the key pointers from in-depth analysis of Sunday’s final from championship sponsors Vodafone. The individual statistics show that Seamus Scanlon had the perfect day in the possession stakes as he was on the ball all of 20 times during the course of the game and had an unblemished pass completion rate, finding a colleague on each and every occasion. Only his midfield colleague Darragh O Sé and Cork’s Nicholas Murphy won possession more than Scanlon (21 times each) but neither managed Scanlon’s 100% completion rate – O Sé failing with just three passes and Murphy with five. Scanlon’s showing is indicative of an incredibly high degree of consistency. He won possession 23 times against Meath in the semi-final when he failed to complete just one pass while in the drawn All-Ireland semi-final against Cork, he won possession 25 times and hit a 100% completion rate. So then we are in agreement- he never had the potential to be the best midfielder in the country. He had the potential to be a scanlon
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2015 15:13:47 GMT
Scanlon was the best midfielder in the country in 2009
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 29, 2015 15:34:07 GMT
Scanlon was the best midfielder in the country in 2009 I would disagree- he performed his limited tasks very well and performed above what people expected of him but to say he was the best midfielder is simply not correct.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 29, 2015 15:51:24 GMT
He got an All Star that year.
His "limited tasks" were sadly missed in the final 10 mins of the 2011 final.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2015 16:37:37 GMT
Aidan Walsh at 20 had to potential to become the best midfielder in the country. There were comparisons to a young Jacko at that stage. The flaws in his game such as shooting from all angles, over carrying the ball, over emhpasis on attacking, were never coached out of him and he seemed to get terrible stick from the cork supporters. Cork footballers over the last 10 years have totally underachieved mainly due to poor management and coaching. Kerrigan, Shields, Goulding and a lot more have only scratched the surface of their underage potential. Kerry seem to have it cracked by letting players sit in the squad and learn their trade before making the step up. Johnny Buckley, Donncha Walsh, Lyne to name 3 were on the tail end of the panel for a number of years. I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player Aidan Walsh was the buttress that anchored Corks presence in the middle third and at midfield in 2010 All-Ireland Final. He was simply immense in that final and one of the mainstays in Cork just getting over the line on the day. He had a massive game for a 20 year old in a final.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 29, 2015 17:27:49 GMT
I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player Aidan Walsh was the buttress that anchored Corks presence in the middle third and at midfield in 2010 All-Ireland Final. He was simply immense in that final and one of the mainstays in Cork just getting over the line on the day. He had a massive game for a 20 year old in a final. I accept that but people seem to be confusing one performance with overall ability
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Apr 29, 2015 17:29:58 GMT
He got an All Star that year. His "limited tasks" were sadly missed in the final 10 mins of the 2011 final. I have always been a fan of Scanlon but lets not lose the run of ourselves here- he was never even Kerry's number 1 midfielder not to mind the no 1 in the country.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Apr 29, 2015 17:45:06 GMT
He got an All Star that year. His "limited tasks" were sadly missed in the final 10 mins of the 2011 final. I have always been a fan of Scanlon but lets not lose the run of ourselves here- he was never even Kerry's number 1 midfielder not to mind the no 1 in the country. The Scanlon example is just that .. An example. The point is the kerry set up allows players to reach their full potential,whatever that may be. Scanlon certainly reached his. The same cannot be said for a large percentage of cork players as outlined. Aidan Walsh would not have been shooting from the sideline if he was training with Kerry.
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Post by southward on Apr 29, 2015 18:40:59 GMT
I know you have already qualified it by mentioning it as one of his weaknesses but his kicking has and always was woeful- I never would have assumed that he would come anywhere near being the best midfielder in the country. He is a big physical specimen but a very mediocre ball player Seamus Scanlon had a similar problem over the course of his career. Pat O'Shea and Jack O'Connor did a great job on him to the extent that in the 2009 All Ireland final he had 20 possessions and no turnovers including many 30-40 yard passes. I always felt Counihan gave Walsh too much free rein especially with his shooting! Kerry players seem to improve a lot with their skill levels- Paul Galvin's foot passing in 2004 vs the exhibition in Parc Ui Caoimh is the best example i can think of. Tuesday, September 22, 2009 THE invaluable contribution of one the quiet and unsung heroes of Kerry’s All-Ireland winning squad has emerged as one of the key pointers from in-depth analysis of Sunday’s final from championship sponsors Vodafone. The individual statistics show that Seamus Scanlon had the perfect day in the possession stakes as he was on the ball all of 20 times during the course of the game and had an unblemished pass completion rate, finding a colleague on each and every occasion.Only his midfield colleague Darragh O Sé and Cork’s Nicholas Murphy won possession more than Scanlon (21 times each) but neither managed Scanlon’s 100% completion rate – O Sé failing with just three passes and Murphy with five. Scanlon’s showing is indicative of an incredibly high degree of consistency. He won possession 23 times against Meath in the semi-final when he failed to complete just one pass while in the drawn All-Ireland semi-final against Cork, he won possession 25 times and hit a 100% completion rate. The difference being that Scanlon didn't try to shoot from all over the place. And most his passes were simple lay offs. Knew his strengths and limitations and played accordingly, that's what made him so effective. Walsh, on the other hand, fine athlete though he is, couldn't hit a barn door but nobody seems to have told him.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 30, 2015 8:23:46 GMT
He got an All Star that year. His "limited tasks" were sadly missed in the final 10 mins of the 2011 final. I have always been a fan of Scanlon but lets not lose the run of ourselves here- he was never even Kerry's number 1 midfielder not to mind the no 1 in the country. He was Kerry's No.1 midfielder in 2009 and was the best midfielder in the country that year with 3 superb performances on the trot v Dublin, Meath and Cork in Croker.
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