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Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 24, 2015 15:19:28 GMT
A subject oft discussed on here so should be of interest to many.
Burns keen for group to deal with 'negative' side of football -Colm Keys
Space on the pitch is often at a premium in the modern game as Monaghan’s Ryan McAnespie found out when closed down by (from left) Donegal’s Neil Gallagher, Daniel McLaughlin and Paddy McGrath – something which Jarlath Burns would like to see change in the coming years
The new chairman of the GAA's standing committee on playing rules has promised they will be "robust" in their approach to monitoring the way Gaelic football is being played over the next three years.
Former Armagh captain Jarlath Burns, previously a member of the GAA's Management Committee and a regular commentator on the game with BBC and TG4, says his body won't "stand still" during their term.
The chairpersons of all the national committees during the term of new GAA president Aogan O Fearghail were in Croke Park for their briefing over the weekend.
Burns has taken over a role previously held by the GAA president Liam O'Neill and the presence of a former inter-county player at the helm represents a different direction for this particular body.
With no window of opportunity for playing rule change for another five years for counties, only this body can engineer change between now and 2018 by making recommendations for Central Council to take to Congress.
Burns has yet to meet his committee but wants their work to be broad in finding solutions to take the game away from the "negative" path it is currently on.
"I can't be specific about what we will do but we have to acknowledge the game has become too defensive," he said.
"And defensive play by its nature is negative because it prevents creative play. Do we look to limit the number of handpasses? Do we look to limit the number of forwards that can cross a halfway line?" he asked.
So far in this year's league campaign the number of goals scored has dipped by just under 25 per cent as teams revert to safety in numbers to defend.
"As a body we have to work to look at solutions because if we do nothing we are saying that everything is fine and I think the vast majority of people would say that the game is not fine. Football is developing an ugly side."
The Football Review Committee (FRC), under the chairmanship of Eugene McGee, did much of its work from mid to late 2012 before presenting their first report at the end of that year that led to the introduction of the black card.
Since then the frequency of handpasses appears to have increased with one recent Division 1 league game calculated to have had in the region of 440 handpasses.
"Spectators want to see skills, they want to see high catches being made. They also want to see great blocks and tackles from defenders.
"But they don't want to see 12 men consistently behind a ball," he said. "That's lazy coaching. It's easy to coach that and there is nothing imaginative about it."
Burns says he imagines the work of his group will focus on addressing some of these issues.
Expansive
"We'll be robust in our debate. If there are solutions, I'd hope we can put them forward. Can we make the game more expansive? Can we make it more enjoyable to watch? Those are the questions we will ask ourselves."
Burns does accept however that change will be difficult because playing rules require Congress approval.
Meanwhile, the new hurling playing rules passed at Congress last month will be in force for the league semi-finals on April 19.
The GAA announced yesterday that the new rules, which ordinarily come into force four weeks after Congress, would not be implemented until April 11 instead.
This will allow Saturday's Central Council meeting to approve the correct wording for the rules governing the new one-to-one penalty in hurling and the advantage. It will also allow the national referees' committee more time to brief its members.
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Post by aranteorainn on Mar 24, 2015 15:23:35 GMT
You cannot have Leitrim playing Kerry and expect them to play open expansive football.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 24, 2015 15:33:58 GMT
You cannot have Leitrim playing Kerry and expect them to play open expansive football. Which is probably an argument for a two tier championship. Leitrim might not play open expansive football against Mayo or Kerry but they might do so against Carlow or Waterford. |
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 24, 2015 16:00:06 GMT
There's a touch of the Keith Lemon about this, a northern president appointing a northern chairman to repair a game that the nordies contorted.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2015 16:11:58 GMT
We saw on the 17th of March that noncompetitive hurling is as grim a spectacle as any other noncompetitive sport. We also saw last year that competitive football is as superb as any other sport with great games between the likes of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Donegal in last year's Championship. There's no question if we had a football Championship with only the better teams as in hurling we would have far better ratio of great games to stinkers.
Defensive games can be as absorbing as gung ho ones depending on the quality of the teams, there is room for both.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 24, 2015 19:59:52 GMT
Over thirty years ago it was widely held in Kerry that the only reason that the goal from the handpass was abolished was because not only had Kerry adopted it but actually turned it into an art form. They was no problem in 1976 and 1977 when Dublin were running through and handpassing it past Paudie OMahony. By 1980 and three-in-a-row in the bag the clamour for change was deafening and the handpassed goal was abolished.
In 2014 Kerry actually defend properly in an All Ireland final and Gaelic Football is in a state of chassis.
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Post by ballynamona on Mar 24, 2015 20:33:36 GMT
I'll try to keep an open mind on this one. Mickmack is right though, there is a huge double-standard. Certain counties are expected to play the beautiful game - but if they lose while doing so they are mocked.
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Post by ballynamona on Mar 24, 2015 20:34:26 GMT
We saw on the 17th of March that noncompetitive hurling is as grim a spectacle as any other noncompetitive sport. We also saw last year that competitive football is as superb as any other sport with great games between the likes of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Donegal in last year's Championship. There's no question if we had a football Championship with only the better teams as in hurling we would have far better ratio of great games to stinkers. Defensive games can be as absorbing as gung ho ones depending on the quality of the teams, there is room for both. Agreed - Kildare v Donegal in 2012 was gripping, even if quite defensive. |
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Post by veteran on Mar 24, 2015 21:37:00 GMT
I am blue in the face from reading about committees being set up to review the state of football. After much deliberation and huffing and puffing, generally little of significance is announced.
Every game has faults, professionally played or otherwise, and our code of football is no exception. I can spare the GAA authorities a lot of expense and energy. I have the answer, at least the answer to the major blight on our game. No banging together of great minds is needed.
I am not an admirer of short kick outs. I am not an admirer of blanket defending. In no way ,do I find the latter tactic compelling. However, as repellent as these strategies are, they are legitimate approaches to the game.
The major cancer in our game is the incessant hand passing. This tactic has bastardised our game and, in my view ,is the principal reason why attendance figures are dropping. Only the tribal nature of football is preventing a larger drop in spectator figures. How many neutrals travel to games now, the All-Ireland final apart?
The solution? I have repeatedly said it on this forum- restrict the hand pass. Allow two, at most three,consecutive hand passes in any movement. Give it a trial for even one year and of course do not canvass the opinion of managers. They will vote for the puerile hand pass which they could teach to a monkey. Apart from reintroducing the kick into football, wouldn't that be evil, observe the impact on the blanket defence. Watching boys of the blanket defence persuasion kick pass, to a certain extent at least, their way from their own goal line should be fascinating. I imagine it will lead to a rethink and reconfiguration.
A few curmudgeons might say it would be too much of an imposition on referees. If we can't find referees who can count to three then we should fold our tent.
So there you have it. The simplest of solutions to a noxious problem. Restrict the hand pass and lesser problems will wither.
P.S. After the one year successful trial I would then stipulate that all frees for scores would be taken from the ground. Now, we are talking football.
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Post by sullyschoice on Mar 24, 2015 22:07:44 GMT
I ran a trial match today with under 12s and I put a restriction on handpassing. Trying to count the handpasses while also concentrating on other stuff was a pain in the swiss roll to be honest. I Agree with the sentiment but its too much to police in practicalmterms. Referees will be slaughtered for making frequent mistakes. Some current ones cant count two hops in a row.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 24, 2015 22:42:58 GMT
Limiting to three handpasses would make scoring against a blanket pretty much impossible imo.
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Mar 25, 2015 0:22:29 GMT
How about limiting hand passes within one's own half (or 45)?
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inchperfect
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No longer active member.
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Post by inchperfect on Mar 25, 2015 1:10:21 GMT
One thing I despise in the game is the crowding of a player in possession. Players, usually in the final third of the pitch, being surrounded and heckled by 4, 5, 6 players and the referee actually penalises the player in possession for 'overcarrying' when he has no possible way of hopping/soloing the ball or laying it off. If I was a lawmaker in the GAA the first rule I'd make would be that a player in possession can't be surrounded by more than 2 players trying to tackle him. I'm actually very surprised that nobody ever even mentions this anymore as a negative part of the game and I think introducing a rule like that would only improve the game.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 25, 2015 7:41:11 GMT
One thing I despise in the game is the crowding of a player in possession. Players, usually in the final third of the pitch, being surrounded and heckled by 4, 5, 6 players and the referee actually penalises the player in possession for 'overcarrying' when he has no possible way of hopping/soloing the ball or laying it off. If I was a lawmaker in the GAA the first rule I'd make would be that a player in possession can't be surrounded by more than 2 players trying to tackle him. I'm actually very surprised that nobody ever even mentions this anymore as a negative part of the game and I think introducing a rule like that would only improve the game. The rules are actually adequate to deal with that already. Most of the "tackling" being done in these situations involves digging the guy with the ball in various parts of the anatomy, refs should just be giving standard frees in 99% of cases. |
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 25, 2015 9:53:25 GMT
Not a part of the actual play- but what I find to be the most frustrating part of football/GAA in general is the 2 yellow cards rule and the general helplessness of the umpires.
An example that regularly happens is- off the ball a back is hitting/wrestling a forward to the ground and then the forward tries to hold him off/ get back up- result will be a yellow card each.
Its ridiculous and needs to be changed
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 25, 2015 10:51:50 GMT
Insisting the kickout goes beyond the 45 and four forwards remain goal side of the half way line would give a more traditional style of game.
I don't think I would like to be depending on refs to count hand passes throughout the game and get them all spot on across all levels of the game.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 25, 2015 12:28:56 GMT
Not a part of the actual play- but what I find to be the most frustrating part of football/GAA in general is the 2 yellow cards rule and the general helplessness of the umpires. An example that regularly happens is- off the ball a back is hitting/wrestling a forward to the ground and then the forward tries to hold him off/ get back up- result will be a yellow card each. Its ridiculous and needs to be changed Worse when it happens the other way around as the yellow card is a much more severe punishment for the back than the forward. Forwards should generally go out of their way to start grappling with their markers as the current regime of "yellows for all" is a massive win for the forward. |
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Post by hatchetman on Mar 25, 2015 12:36:07 GMT
I'm surprised that reducing the number of players hasn't been mentioned.
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Post by veteran on Mar 25, 2015 16:17:37 GMT
Insisting the kickout goes beyond the 45 and four forwards remain goal side of the half way line would give a more traditional style of game. I don't think I would like to be depending on refs to count hand passes throughout the game and get them all spot on across all levels of the game. Kerrygold, what happens when a kickout is being taken against a howling gale? Getting the ball beyond the 45 would be very difficult/impossible in those circumstances. I suspect it would be easier for a referee to count two or three hand passes than to keep an eye on how many forwards remain goal side of the half way line. |
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 25, 2015 16:19:48 GMT
Insisting the kickout goes beyond the 45 and four forwards remain goal side of the half way line would give a more traditional style of game. I don't think I would like to be depending on refs to count hand passes throughout the game and get them all spot on across all levels of the game. I suspect it would be easier for a referee to count two or three hand passes than to keep an eye on how many forwards remain goal side of the half way line. The line men could take care of that as in Soccer. |
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Post by glengael on Mar 25, 2015 16:48:29 GMT
There's a touch of the Keith Lemon about this, a northern president appointing a northern chairman to repair a game that the nordies contorted. Would I be the only one on here wondering who Keith Lemon is?  |
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 25, 2015 17:15:36 GMT
Counting hand passes is a non runner as it totally distracts from refereeing the game. If the hand pass is to be curtailed it would have to be - receive a hand pass you must kick the ball.
I hate this practice of surrounding a player in possession (particularly if fielded well) and the ref penalising him for over carrying but it's a legitimate action when a player carrys a ball into traffic. The mark or awarding of a free for surrounding the player provided he has not hopped or solo'd the ball could be the solution.
I like the concept of penalising a team for having less than 4 outfield players in the each half of the pitch at all times. Question is how to manage important implementation, particularly at club level.
Biggest issue with rule changes is ensuring they are workable and don't complicate the game. The poor and inconsistent application of the existing rule book is the most infuriating aspect of the current game in my opinion.
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Post by southward on Mar 25, 2015 19:18:27 GMT
I can't see policing a 2, 3, 4 handpass rule being too much of a problem. Got to be easier than counting steps, which happen much faster. And if a team gets away with an extra one, so what? - this happens with the steps all the time and no-one's that bothered usually. The main thing is that teams won't be able to handpass indefinately.
Someone said limiting handpasses would make it hard to score against a blanket defence. My guess is there wouldn't be blanket defences with a handpass rule. It would just be impossible play your way out from the back with no-one upfield to aim a kick at; short kickpasses would be too risky.
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Post by veteran on Mar 25, 2015 19:54:09 GMT
I can't see policing a 2, 3, 4 handpass rule being too much of a problem. Got to be easier than counting steps, which happen much faster. And if a team gets away with an extra one, so what? - this happens with the steps all the time and no-one's that bothered usually. The main thing is that teams won't be able to handpass indefinately. Someone said limiting handpasses would make it hard to score against a blanket defence. My guess is there wouldn't be blanket defences with a handpass rule. It would just be impossible play your way out from the back with no-one upfield to aim a kick at; short kickpasses would be too risky. I agree with these points made in relation to a perceived difficulty in implementing a curtailment of the hand pass. Furthermore, a curtailment of the hand pass was experimented with successfully some years ago in the NFL, not sure of the precise year. The only people who were displeased were the managers and they used their influence to bury its utilisation on a long term basis. No surprise there. It doesn't take much ingenuity to coach a hand pass- child's play. Most of those boys are not interested in the aesthetics of the game. |
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Post by southward on Mar 25, 2015 22:01:39 GMT
Seeing as the handpassed goal has long been outlawed, it makes no sense that the volleyball-style goal is still allowed (and becoming more and more common). I'd also favour the fisted point being banned.
In the meantime, referees should be instructed (again) to whistle up dodgy handpasses. There was a clampdown in 2010 but it seems to be worse than ever. Paddy Collins said recently that he estimated around 25% of handpasses were illegal these days. He was probably being conservative with that figure.
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