Brolly ambushes Donaghy

[Ard Mhacha]

Was reading Brolly's column where he surprised Kieran Donaghy while he was being interviewed recently at a fundraising dinner.

Anyone there to witness it?

[Seoirse Ui Duic]

Feb 15, 2015 15:38:13 GMT Ard Mhacha said:

Was reading Brolly's column where he surprised Kieran Donaghy while he was being interviewed recently at a fundraising dinner.

Anyone there to witness it?

Pictures of it on Brolly's and Donaghy's twitter accounts

[Seoirse Ui Duic]

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[Ballyfireside]

Ah here, another bone for 'em! At least our wee Joe doesn't compare to the TCD professor of genetics who criticised The Kerry Ingredient for implying that breeding was a factor in the makings of a footballer. It influences everything else so how he arrived at that conclusion is amazing!

The Production Line -dedicated to Kieran Donaghy and Joe Brolly
Success not be a destination,
but an eternal relay race.
Minors made an example,
the production line rolls on full blast.

Genealogical generational Star,
takes baton into righteous pace.
Conveyor belts the onion bag,
of brain and brawn, of blitzkrieg craft.

Man and boy of steely stature nature,
of grit, guts and graft on Croker grass.
Written off was transition mission statement,
now written into history of doubles of pure class.

Talking, not playing the Sabbath game,
now only rises to field Pat's fart rants.
'What do you think of that Joe Brolly'
Star talks the talk, bold as brass.

[falveyb2k]

Joe wrote an article about it last week in the daily mail. He also finished the article saying the Kerry minors were copies of each other who displayed little to no skill and were the worst minor team to win in quite a while(apparently all our development squads just copied Tyrone!!!!!), while the seniors could only win the All Ireland by exactly copying Donegal. Good to see he's not bitter over being proved wrong!!!!

[A.N. Other]

I personally would like to thank Joe for giving Star motivation to keep going and to kick us on throughout the year.

As for what he said about the minor team... I think anyone who takes this man seriously, is worse than Brolly himself.

[falveyb2k]

I don't think anybody takes him seriously but I find it depressing that a man has to denigrate a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds in order to gain attention and make his employers more money

[A.N. Other]

I agree. And in fact if he had actually seen them play he would have realised it was probably one of the most talented minor teams in years, whether they won the all ireland or not this wouldnt have changed. I'm sure over the next 10 years Brolly will have quite a few articles written about fellas of this minor team, because there will be quite a few involved at Senior level, all things going well.

[Ballyfireside]

Yeah, baloney and not to be taken seriously. Joe's media role is to defend RTE's Ulster audience from the BBC and which generally uses Ulster pundits, and his views will be consistent with what they like to hear. I think this creates an ugly division which is of course unsporting.

I would have thought that Jack O'C needs to adapt like Fitzy did and that we have so much class conceals the urgency of this. We risk getting caught flat-footed, like could have happened v Donegal. That Jack has openly voiced his reluctance in this respect must a concern, moreover given that the production line feeds into the seniors and that it also sets the agenda at club level when possible recruits see what is wanted by selectors.

[Seoirse Ui Duic]

After the minors were outfoxed the previous year by Tyrone there wasn't much choice. The Kerry minors were clearly the better footballers in 2013 but a bit naive when they faced Tyrone. I'm still convinced they should have won that game and they let it slip.
The Kerry minors played good football in 2014 and, like the seniors, toughened up defence.
In an age of systems, minors beefing up in the gym, nutrition schedules, sport psychologists and a winning is all that counts attitude just playing good football and having great skills doesn't do anymore.
I believe that developing skills is the most important thing and should be the main focus. Fitness and nutrition and discipline are also important.
Weights and strength and conditioning should be introduced gradually as too much of it means less emphasis on skills and fitness.
The best training for minors is playing games, games and more games. Nothing can compare to the experience that comes from playing games. No matter how good your skills are, you need to be able to use them in games.
Minors need to enjoy the effort they have to put into it and a minor that has to give up his whole future, youth, career plan and education won't be enjoying his football.
They need to enjoy playing football and enjoying being youngsters, without hanging around town all evening. They need to have the discipline not to buckle under peer pressure and start boozing and smoking on corners, but not being able to hang with their classmates and peers wouldn't be good either.

Despite Kerry having little success at minor and U21 levels recently I think the conveyor belt of young players coming into the team and doing well shows that it certainly does not translate in less succes for the seniors. There are also examples of players that never played minor or U21 and went on to become great senior players.
Personally I don't believe that winning medals at underage levels gives players an advantage at senior level. It is a whole different ballgame and attitude.
I do think that the discipline needed at senior level has to be second nature at underage level. Especially the town youngsters are subject to all kinds of distractions.
It takes a strong mind to go to bed early and not drink while all of Killarney is partying in summer.

So, are we expecting too much of them at a young age? I'd rather see minors and U21s enjoy the game and develop their skills than have them win lots of titles.
There's plenty of time to get medals when they're older.

Below is Brolly's article: I don't find it too bad considering it is aimed at Gaelic Life readers: Ulster GAA fans.
It confirms views many in the north might have of Kerry: That Kerry people hate to be reminded that Dinghy is half Tyrone (he doesn't seem to mind), that every person in Kerry has at least 15 medals and that Kerry people are convinced they are the best (which is true).
Brolly points out that Kerry used a sort of total football in last year's minor final with players going back in defence if need be and defenders going forward and score points. Much like Tyrone used to do. A lot of development squads and clubs in Tyrone have adopted the style Harte introduced as it has been working for them.
kerry have been beaten by that style too often. Though the minors played lovely football most of the year they had to do something different in the final.
It wasn't a classic final and I'll give Brolly that, but to come so close and not win anything would have been cruel. They did what they had to do to win, as did the seniors, and I'm happy they did.
If anything Brolly points out that Kerry have been producing lovely footballers for years, but that the defensive styles of Donegal and Tyrone ruined football in such a way that everyone else, including Kerry, are now adopting it.
I would have to agree with that analysis. Football has changed for the worse and it is indeed all about systems now.
I believe though that Kerry will adapt to the situation though and develop their very own style as they have done so many times before.
Over the decades a lot of different styles have come and gone and some were very effective at beating Kerry.
Kerry have always found an answer and will do so again to this.

I WAS in Tralee recently for a fundraising lunch for the Austin Stacks club. They wanted me to come down as a secret guest, then pounce on Kieran Donaghy when he was on stage being asked about his outburst after the All-Ireland final.

When their chairman first rang me a month ago, I said, “I can’t. I’m in court in Belfast until noon.”

“Oh jaysus Joe you’ll have to be here, it’s all set up. You’re the shtar of the show.”

“I can’t,” I said, “I’m in court until noon. Its impossible.”“We’ll have a plane waiting for you at Belfast airport.”

What could I say to that, only “Fair enough.”Is it any wonder they’ve so many All-Irelands?

I arrived in good time at the hotel and was smuggled in under a coat, like Abu Hamza being handed over to the CIA.

Big Kieran was on stage being asked about his “What do you think of that Joe Brolly?” moment, when I got the signal to rock.

“You cheeky Tyrone b****d” I said as I walked into the function room (Kieran’s half Tyrone, thank God the family settled in Kerry). The place went wild. Big Kieran jumped in surprise, face red as a beetroot.

“You can take the man out of Tyrone,” I said as I advanced on the stage. “Did your ma never tell you not to challenge the man with the mic? Your first slip up and the Sean Cavanagh episode will seem like a breaktime story in the creche.”

“Ah jaysus Joe,” he said, “sure you said I was finished.”

“Wasn’t me left on you on the bench for 90% of the year,” I said. The place was in uproar.

When I got a second, I looked down over the huge crowd. Legends of the game as far as the eye could stretch. And in the middle of them, clutching a pint as though it were a thimble, the Bomber.

I thought instantly of an encounter I had many years ago in Killarney. A woman approached me and told me she worked in the Park Place Hotel in Killarney (now long gone) when the ‘great Kerry team’ used to eat there after training.

“I am a Cork woman,” she told me, “but my father was a Kerry man. There were three children and he used to say ‘I’ll give you all a sweet if you shout Up Kerry.’ The other two always buckled but I never did. I refused to say it. I never did get a sweet!”

Beatrice Houlihan recalled those Kerry men with glowing eyes. “Ger Power was very quiet,” she said. All he ever said was ‘Steak’. Bomber could eat two steaks. They always left the hotel eating giant ice-cream wafers. Bomber had two, one in each hand. There were no nutritionists then. They were great days. They were all lovely fellows.”

After the crowd had calmed a bit, I was joined on stage by Ger Power (eight All-Irelands), the Bomber (seven), Tomas O’Se (five) and Michael O’Muircheartaigh.

“Thank God you’re here Michael,” I said, “You’re the only man with fewer All-Irelands than me.”

Having started by remarking that he came into the team at “a time when they were struggling”, the Bomber recalled a league game against Roscommon in Hyde Park.

Himself and Mikey Sheehy were darting left and right, making smart runs. Meanwhile Pat Spillane was soloing furiously and taking long range potshots.

“After he had five wides, I could see Mikey getting cross. The next ball, Mikey made the perfect

run across me into space. Pat never looked up, just kept soloing, then drove it wide again from fifty yards out, near the sideline. A moment later one of the Roscommon lads went down injured. “Myself, Pat and Mikey went into a small huddle. ‘We need to start working the one twos lads’ said Pat. ‘Pat’, said Mikey, ‘I’d be happy with the one.’”

Afterwards, I sat drinking in the hotel bar with Paudie Lynch, Ogie Moran, Sean Walsh and the rest. I counted 64 All-Ireland medals in the company at one point. The Bomber directed proceedings. “You see these hands Derry man? Most human beings are born with skin on their hands. I was born with silk.” I nearly spat out my pint.

Shortly after that, he reached for me and held me under his oxter. “The Derry man will sing a song now,” he announced. “Shut up lads. Go on Derry man, away you go.”

“I’d be more comfortable sitting up,” I said. “Fair enough,” said the Bomber, who released me.

When I’d finished, he said “Jaysus I thought you could sing better than that.” And so it continued.

Some of the new generation were there. Star was sipping spring water. David Moran and Tommy Walsh the same. “You wouldn’t see the county footballers nowadays from one year to the next,” said a man called O’Sullivan. “They’re locked away.”

For hours, these titans of the game talked about endlessly practising the skills and their fears that intuition and flair were being quashed by modern methods.

Sean Walsh (7 All-Irelands) was sitting with us.

The Bomber recalled Sean struggling with nerves in the run up to big games. “I used to pick up Charlie Nelligan. We’d meet Sean down at the pitch. Charlie would kick balls in on top of me and Seanie. I let him win every one. ‘Jaysus Sean’ I’d say to him, ‘Thank God I don’t have to mark you on Sunday.’”

Bomber Liston, Kerry’s first sports psychologist.

All these great players, through from Micko to Egan and Maurice Fitz and Moynihan, were born in a time of skill and non conformity. Wild men and mavericks were welcome. They had the space to develop their distinctive skills at underage.

Time enough to concentrate on winning at senior level, when they were fully developed footballers. They could socialise. Have a half dozen pints the night before away games in the league. Be part of their community.

Now the game is being controlled by legions of confident bluffers (paid managers, sports psychologists, high performance experts and the like), micromanaging players from a very young age.

Underage training sessions are formulaic and intense, designed to create super fit teams and a winning strategy. A system that tends to bring underage success but not to produce Gooches or O’Se’s or Sheehys.

At underage level, Kerry are now mimicking Tyrone’s development squads.

For a generation, Kerry didn’t win a single minor title. Instead they produced highly skilled senior footballers who dominated Sam Maguire and more importantly, played with glory and honour. Five months ago, they won the minor title.

Systematic and dull, for the first time, a Kerry team in Croke Park looked like all the other schmucks. An hour later, for the first time in 120 years, the Kerry senior team looked exactly the same.

It is a major worry, not just in the Kingdom, but for football lovers everywhere. Sadly, the days of eating giant ice cream cones after training are gone forever. In the process, we have lost a lot more than a few calories.

- See more at: gaeliclife.com/2015/02/joe-brolly-what-do-you-think-of-that-kieran-donaghy/#sthash.ylYJ4vTJ.dpuf

[Ard Mhacha]

Feb 16, 2015 14:35:48 GMT Ballyfireside said:

Yeah, baloney and not to be taken seriously. Joe's media role is to defend RTE's Ulster audience from the BBC and which generally uses Ulster pundits, and his views will be consistent with what they like to hear. I think this creates an ugly division which is of course unsporting.

The BBC generally only show Ulster c'ship matches, hence the Ulster pundits. But they've been known to have non-Ulster pundits too.

Brolly does of course divide opinion, but probably no moreso than what Spillane has over the years. If indeed there is an amount of anti-Kerry bias, Pat has helped create it.

[kot]

Feb 16, 2015 15:43:45 GMT Seoirse Ui Duic said:

After the minors were outfoxed the previous year by Tyrone there wasn't much choice. The Kerry minors were clearly the better footballers in 2013 but a bit naive when they faced Tyrone. I'm still convinced they should have won that game and they let it slip.
The Kerry minors played good football in 2014 and, like the seniors, toughened up defence.
In an age of systems, minors beefing up in the gym, nutrition schedules, sport psychologists and a winning is all that counts attitude just playing good football and having great skills doesn't do anymore.
I believe that developing skills is the most important thing and should be the main focus. Fitness and nutrition and discipline are also important.
Weights and strength and conditioning should be introduced gradually as too much of it means less emphasis on skills and fitness.
The best training for minors is playing games, games and more games. Nothing can compare to the experience that comes from playing games. No matter how good your skills are, you need to be able to use them in games.
Minors need to enjoy the effort they have to put into it and a minor that has to give up his whole future, youth, career plan and education won't be enjoying his football.
They need to enjoy playing football and enjoying being youngsters, without hanging around town all evening. They need to have the discipline not to buckle under peer pressure and start boozing and smoking on corners, but not being able to hang with their classmates and peers wouldn't be good either.

Despite Kerry having little success at minor and U21 levels recently I think the conveyor belt of young players coming into the team and doing well shows that it certainly does not translate in less succes for the seniors. There are also examples of players that never played minor or U21 and went on to become great senior players.
Personally I don't believe that winning medals at underage levels gives players an advantage at senior level. It is a whole different ballgame and attitude.
I do think that the discipline needed at senior level has to be second nature at underage level. Especially the town youngsters are subject to all kinds of distractions.
It takes a strong mind to go to bed early and not drink while all of Killarney is partying in summer.

So, are we expecting too much of them at a young age? I'd rather see minors and U21s enjoy the game and develop their skills than have them win lots of titles.
There's plenty of time to get medals when they're older.

Below is Brolly's article: I don't find it too bad considering it is aimed at Gaelic Life readers: Ulster GAA fans.
It confirms views many in the north might have of Kerry: That Kerry people hate to be reminded that Dinghy is half Tyrone (he doesn't seem to mind), that every person in Kerry has at least 15 medals and that Kerry people are convinced they are the best (which is true).
Brolly points out that Kerry used a sort of total football in last year's minor final with players going back in defence if need be and defenders going forward and score points. Much like Tyrone used to do. A lot of development squads and clubs in Tyrone have adopted the style Harte introduced as it has been working for them.
kerry have been beaten by that style too often. Though the minors played lovely football most of the year they had to do something different in the final.
It wasn't a classic final and I'll give Brolly that, but to come so close and not win anything would have been cruel. They did what they had to do to win, as did the seniors, and I'm happy they did.
If anything Brolly points out that Kerry have been producing lovely footballers for years, but that the defensive styles of Donegal and Tyrone ruined football in such a way that everyone else, including Kerry, are now adopting it.
I would have to agree with that analysis. Football has changed for the worse and it is indeed all about systems now.
I believe though that Kerry will adapt to the situation though and develop their very own style as they have done so many times before.
Over the decades a lot of different styles have come and gone and some were very effective at beating Kerry.
Kerry have always found an answer and will do so again to this.

I WAS in Tralee recently for a fundraising lunch for the Austin Stacks club. They wanted me to come down as a secret guest, then pounce on Kieran Donaghy when he was on stage being asked about his outburst after the All-Ireland final.

When their chairman first rang me a month ago, I said, “I can’t. I’m in court in Belfast until noon.”

“Oh jaysus Joe you’ll have to be here, it’s all set up. You’re the shtar of the show.”

“I can’t,” I said, “I’m in court until noon. Its impossible.”“We’ll have a plane waiting for you at Belfast airport.”

What could I say to that, only “Fair enough.”Is it any wonder they’ve so many All-Irelands?

I arrived in good time at the hotel and was smuggled in under a coat, like Abu Hamza being handed over to the CIA.

Big Kieran was on stage being asked about his “What do you think of that Joe Brolly?” moment, when I got the signal to rock.

“You cheeky Tyrone b****d” I said as I walked into the function room (Kieran’s half Tyrone, thank God the family settled in Kerry). The place went wild. Big Kieran jumped in surprise, face red as a beetroot.

“You can take the man out of Tyrone,” I said as I advanced on the stage. “Did your ma never tell you not to challenge the man with the mic? Your first slip up and the Sean Cavanagh episode will seem like a breaktime story in the creche.”

“Ah jaysus Joe,” he said, “sure you said I was finished.”

“Wasn’t me left on you on the bench for 90% of the year,” I said. The place was in uproar.

When I got a second, I looked down over the huge crowd. Legends of the game as far as the eye could stretch. And in the middle of them, clutching a pint as though it were a thimble, the Bomber.

I thought instantly of an encounter I had many years ago in Killarney. A woman approached me and told me she worked in the Park Place Hotel in Killarney (now long gone) when the ‘great Kerry team’ used to eat there after training.

“I am a Cork woman,” she told me, “but my father was a Kerry man. There were three children and he used to say ‘I’ll give you all a sweet if you shout Up Kerry.’ The other two always buckled but I never did. I refused to say it. I never did get a sweet!”

Beatrice Houlihan recalled those Kerry men with glowing eyes. “Ger Power was very quiet,” she said. All he ever said was ‘Steak’. Bomber could eat two steaks. They always left the hotel eating giant ice-cream wafers. Bomber had two, one in each hand. There were no nutritionists then. They were great days. They were all lovely fellows.”

After the crowd had calmed a bit, I was joined on stage by Ger Power (eight All-Irelands), the Bomber (seven), Tomas O’Se (five) and Michael O’Muircheartaigh.

“Thank God you’re here Michael,” I said, “You’re the only man with fewer All-Irelands than me.”

Having started by remarking that he came into the team at “a time when they were struggling”, the Bomber recalled a league game against Roscommon in Hyde Park.

Himself and Mikey Sheehy were darting left and right, making smart runs. Meanwhile Pat Spillane was soloing furiously and taking long range potshots.

“After he had five wides, I could see Mikey getting cross. The next ball, Mikey made the perfect

run across me into space. Pat never looked up, just kept soloing, then drove it wide again from fifty yards out, near the sideline. A moment later one of the Roscommon lads went down injured. “Myself, Pat and Mikey went into a small huddle. ‘We need to start working the one twos lads’ said Pat. ‘Pat’, said Mikey, ‘I’d be happy with the one.’”

Afterwards, I sat drinking in the hotel bar with Paudie Lynch, Ogie Moran, Sean Walsh and the rest. I counted 64 All-Ireland medals in the company at one point. The Bomber directed proceedings. “You see these hands Derry man? Most human beings are born with skin on their hands. I was born with silk.” I nearly spat out my pint.

Shortly after that, he reached for me and held me under his oxter. “The Derry man will sing a song now,” he announced. “Shut up lads. Go on Derry man, away you go.”

“I’d be more comfortable sitting up,” I said. “Fair enough,” said the Bomber, who released me.

When I’d finished, he said “Jaysus I thought you could sing better than that.” And so it continued.

Some of the new generation were there. Star was sipping spring water. David Moran and Tommy Walsh the same. “You wouldn’t see the county footballers nowadays from one year to the next,” said a man called O’Sullivan. “They’re locked away.”

For hours, these titans of the game talked about endlessly practising the skills and their fears that intuition and flair were being quashed by modern methods.

Sean Walsh (7 All-Irelands) was sitting with us.

The Bomber recalled Sean struggling with nerves in the run up to big games. “I used to pick up Charlie Nelligan. We’d meet Sean down at the pitch. Charlie would kick balls in on top of me and Seanie. I let him win every one. ‘Jaysus Sean’ I’d say to him, ‘Thank God I don’t have to mark you on Sunday.’”

Bomber Liston, Kerry’s first sports psychologist.

All these great players, through from Micko to Egan and Maurice Fitz and Moynihan, were born in a time of skill and non conformity. Wild men and mavericks were welcome. They had the space to develop their distinctive skills at underage.

Time enough to concentrate on winning at senior level, when they were fully developed footballers. They could socialise. Have a half dozen pints the night before away games in the league. Be part of their community.

Now the game is being controlled by legions of confident bluffers (paid managers, sports psychologists, high performance experts and the like), micromanaging players from a very young age.

Underage training sessions are formulaic and intense, designed to create super fit teams and a winning strategy. A system that tends to bring underage success but not to produce Gooches or O’Se’s or Sheehys.

At underage level, Kerry are now mimicking Tyrone’s development squads.

For a generation, Kerry didn’t win a single minor title. Instead they produced highly skilled senior footballers who dominated Sam Maguire and more importantly, played with glory and honour. Five months ago, they won the minor title.

Systematic and dull, for the first time, a Kerry team in Croke Park looked like all the other schmucks. An hour later, for the first time in 120 years, the Kerry senior team looked exactly the same.

It is a major worry, not just in the Kingdom, but for football lovers everywhere. Sadly, the days of eating giant ice cream cones after training are gone forever. In the process, we have lost a lot more than a few calories.

- See more at: gaeliclife.com/2015/02/joe-brolly-what-do-you-think-of-that-kieran-donaghy/#sthash.ylYJ4vTJ.dpuf

To be fair, that is far from the worst article he has written about Kerry.

However, it has been said already that both Kerry teams cut their cloth to suit on an All Ireland Final teams against Donegal teams who were certain to play a certain way. More than once bitten, about time to be a bit shy.

In terms of his remarks about what types of footballers the minors will become, no doubt a fair few will make him eat his words in years to come.

[Annascaultilidie]

That article is at complete odds to Mike Quirke's a while back.

Let them think what Brolly is saying is true.

[Seoirse Ui Duic]

I would indeed be of the opinion that the football will make him eat his words.
Brolly is a man who just loves to provoke and perhaps the shrewdest man I ever met.
He has a lot of whit and doesn't take himself all that seriously.
As a highly successful barrister he knows better than most the impact that his words will have and often utters them knowing full well they will spark a debate.
I doubt he really has it in for Sean Cavanagh in the way it was portrayed in the media, but he had a very valued point to make.
Did his comments lead to the introduction of the black card? I think the decision was already made, but I do agree fully with Brolly that football has become very cynical.
Teams now use the black card as they have used all measures to stamp out cynical play: if a man breaks through and a goal is imminent you will drag him down regardless of the black card. The best teams in the country have such large panels that the man coming in would possibly have come on as a substitute anyway. If the ref decided on a yellow you put another player on the opposition's main man and you either switch positions around or you substitute the man on a yellow.
If anything the black card has made the stronger counties stronger as the large panels they have are able to deal with it.
If Sean Cavanagh is faced with the same situation tomorrow and sees McManus charge towards an almost certain goal I am sure he will drag him down again.
Referees seem to be hesitant to give black cards so he will probably get a yellow, walk away laughing and another man will mark McManus until Sean has done enough to secure the game for Tyrone and is substituted.
When Fionn received his black card Kerr's defence didn't actually weaken. Eamonn might have preferred a different substitution at a different time, but can't have been too bothered about it either.
He called Gooch a choker and though I definitely don't agree with that you might argue that the Gooch isn't a huge physical presence but more a purist's type of footballer. Against big, physical, very defensive teams Kerry, and indeed the Gooch, have not done well as he would not be able to express himself in those games. Kerry have since come up with ways to counter that, though I think Crokes have not, and the Brolly statement has become obsolete.
His statements are often purposely back and white and over the top to provoke a debate.
Brolly is no fan of defensive systems and I believe he was trying to provoke a debate on whether it's good for football as spectacle to have 13 men behind a ball stifling the beautiful football that the Gooch can play. It is effective to do so, but it makes for very poor viewing.
James O'Donoghue had to give up his role as playmaker in last year's final and in fact ran all around dragging his markers with him and thus creating space for Kerry's forwards to be creative and score. Without that space the light Kerry forwards would have stood no chance at all.
I don't think we can blame the Gooch for not doing the same previously as the instructions from the sideline were very different.

Having met Brolly a few times I find him quite pleasant to talk to. A man who makes very harsh statements, but a man who knows also what he says rather than just saying them. A man who is passionate about football and a man who loves to see skilful football.

[keane]

The usual rubbish from Brolly. This time it's how not allowing guys to have 12 pints the night before a league game prevents the development of Gooch and O Se type players. Bizarre, rambling, uncited garbage.

He also needs to have a serious look at his romanticising of binge drinking in this country.

[Ballyfireside]

Feb 16, 2015 23:58:53 GMT Ard Mhacha said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:35:48 GMT Ballyfireside said:

Yeah, baloney and not to be taken seriously. Joe's media role is to defend RTE's Ulster audience from the BBC and which generally uses Ulster pundits, and his views will be consistent with what they like to hear. I think this creates an ugly division which is of course unsporting.

The BBC generally only show Ulster c'ship matches, hence the Ulster pundits. But they've been known to have non-Ulster pundits too.

Brolly does of course divide opinion, but probably no moreso than what Spillane has over the years. If indeed there is an amount of anti-Kerry bias, Pat has helped create it.

It is more how Spillane says things rather than what he says, e.g. off the cuff he branded Tyrone football and which sounded like sour grapes on the day, Tyrone have played much class football since so he had a point. Any team would have done the same to make the breakthrough and yes, I suppose Pat as a Kerryman didn't like losing, he is a puritan footballer and that is what he will like and anything else he will like less. Did you ever hear Pat say something that was wrong and/or he didn't believe in?, well I didn't but Joe flies in the fact of fact to stoke things up, then again some of that may come from his day job as a barrister which centres on one-upmanship, basically winning arguments and which is all about misrepresenting the facts so the judge arrives as 'the desired conclusion', or opinion as in GAA debate.

I don't think there is anti-Kerry bias, yes it will be 31 v 1 on occasion as neutrals go for the underdog, and that is not because we are Kerry, it is because we have won the most and human nature chooses the challenger over the incumbent. I think our style, supporters and sporting culture make us popular; we are a mature and advanced GAA county and a significant if silent portion of supporters across all counties recognise us for that, they enjoy watching us as we entertain as good as the best. All in all sports are amazing at bringing out the best in people and long may it last; such spirited comraderie is best served when pundits are true to their observations and so lead with expert analysis from which we all learn, and not working to a hidden agendas.

Yeah, we could chat to an eternity but I look for similarities that add to the pleasure of GAA rather than the differences that take from it, bearing in mind that it is contrast that makes for better competition.

Is ait an mhac an tsaol!

Slán go fill a chairde go léir.

[kerryexile]

Bally… to my utter astonishment I agree with everything you said.

Spillane is a purist and this sometimes leads him to say something that is unpalatable to the general public.

Brolly is the only pundit in any sport who, when asked for his opinion introduced it with the word “Whereas….. making his day job as obvious as black streaks on a miners face. That is his way.

And 31 v 1 - I am agreat admirer of Kilkenny but every year I want to see someone else get a chance.

[buck02]

Feb 17, 2015 13:19:24 GMT keane said:

The usual rubbish from Brolly. This time it's how not allowing guys to have 12 pints the night before a league game prevents the development of Gooch and O Se type players. Bizarre, rambling, uncited garbage.

He also needs to have a serious look at his romanticising of binge drinking in this country.

In fairness Keane he said "a half dozen pints"

[tyroneperson]

Feb 17, 2015 12:06:41 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

That article is at complete odds to Mike Quirke's a while back.

Let them think what Brolly is saying is true.

Is Quirke's article online? I get the impression Brolly makes stuff up for dramatic effect - comes up with a one-liner on twitter then repeat it in his articles. Could be wrong in relation to the article posted here but I think there was one occasion a while ago where I was certain what he said was untrue but I can't remember what it was. People think "typical barrister" and what not but apparently he's a lot different in court. More serious and subdued almost.

[Annascaultilidie]

Feb 17, 2015 21:16:18 GMT tyroneperson said:

Feb 17, 2015 12:06:41 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

That article is at complete odds to Mike Quirke's a while back.

Let them think what Brolly is saying is true.

Is Quirke's article online? I get the impression Brolly makes stuff up for dramatic effect - comes up with a one-liner on twitter then repeat it in his articles. Could be wrong in relation to the article posted here but I think there was one occasion a while ago where I was certain what he said was untrue but I can't remember what it was. People think "typical barrister" and what not but apparently he's a lot different in court. More serious and subdued almost.

Not by Quirke sorry: www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/how-the-kingdom-puts-its-senior-citizens-first-310012.html

[Ard Mhacha]

Feb 17, 2015 14:42:19 GMT Ballyfireside said:

It is more how Spillane says things rather than what he says, e.g. off the cuff he branded Tyrone football and which sounded like sour grapes on the day, Tyrone have played much class football since so he had a point. Any team would have done the same to make the breakthrough and yes, I suppose Pat as a Kerryman didn't like losing, he is a puritan footballer and that is what he will like and anything else he will like less. Did you ever hear Pat say something that was wrong and/or he didn't believe in?

Pat was a forward. A forward who won 8 AI medals playing an attacking brand of football on a team blessed with great attacking talent. Of course he's not going to like any other style of football not akin to what he knows.

But it's the silly stuff that has lost Pat his credibility. The shi-ite, puke football, team of the decade stuff. The kind of stuff you'd normally hear from a man who wouldnt recognise an O'Neills ball if it hit him on the head. Petty stuff. Brolly's no better but you'd expect better from a man with a load of medals in his arse pocket.

[kot]

Feb 18, 2015 3:24:48 GMT Ard Mhacha said:

Feb 17, 2015 14:42:19 GMT Ballyfireside said:

It is more how Spillane says things rather than what he says, e.g. off the cuff he branded Tyrone football and which sounded like sour grapes on the day, Tyrone have played much class football since so he had a point. Any team would have done the same to make the breakthrough and yes, I suppose Pat as a Kerryman didn't like losing, he is a puritan footballer and that is what he will like and anything else he will like less. Did you ever hear Pat say something that was wrong and/or he didn't believe in?

Pat was a forward. A forward who won 8 AI medals playing an attacking brand of football on a team blessed with great attacking talent. Of course he's not going to like any other style of football not akin to what he knows.

But it's the silly stuff that has lost Pat his credibility. The shi-ite, puke football, team of the decade stuff. The kind of stuff you'd normally hear from a man who wouldnt recognise an O'Neills ball if it hit him on the head. Petty stuff. Brolly's no better but you'd expect better from a man with a load of medals in his arse pocket.

Ammmmm, while I will agree with most of that, I think you will find that after '08 and right through the '09 season it was Brolly who incessantly brought up the team of the decade argument lauding Tyrone. He used particularly do it on the Sunday game talking over Spillane in an effort to rile him.

When Cork blitzed Tyrone in the semi in '09, Pat off the cuff threw it back in his face. For once, hes undressed remarks were completely justified given the utter bullsh!t he was forced to put up with Brolly for 11 months at that stage.

[Ballyfireside]

Feb 17, 2015 15:42:14 GMT kerryexile said:

Bally… to my utter astonishment I agree with everything you said.

Spillane is a purist and this sometimes leads him to say something that is unpalatable to the general public.

Brolly is the only pundit in any sport who, when asked for his opinion introduced it with the word “Whereas….. making his day job as obvious as black streaks on a miners face. That is his way.

And 31 v 1 - I am agreat admirer of Kilkenny but every year I want to see someone else get a chance.

Am I that bad? No two people agree on everything and maybe what marks me out is that I don't much bother with bull*, and I also smell it early! I only have radical views on issues that are, well radically out of step with the common good.

As Oscar Wilde said, “The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, the young know everything.” What age are ye?

[Annascaultilidie]

Feb 18, 2015 22:13:10 GMT Ballyfireside said:

Feb 17, 2015 15:42:14 GMT kerryexile said:

Bally… to my utter astonishment I agree with everything you said.

Spillane is a purist and this sometimes leads him to say something that is unpalatable to the general public.

Brolly is the only pundit in any sport who, when asked for his opinion introduced it with the word “Whereas….. making his day job as obvious as black streaks on a miners face. That is his way.

And 31 v 1 - I am agreat admirer of Kilkenny but every year I want to see someone else get a chance.

Maybe what marks me out is that I don't much bother with bull*.

Quote of the century!

[Ballyfireside]

To kot and Ard Mhacha, Spillane is a naive pundit, 'The tongue often breaks the nose' kinda fella, his wears his heart on his sleeve and just because he has all those medals is no guarantee or indeed a guide as to his pundit skills. Some greats can be bad communicators and visa versa.

Pat's choice of words is appalling only because it is provocative and the style of play he was describing was not pretty. I can see why Ulster GAA folk would be offended and they are far from sensitive; I think they took it as a strike at them and which isn't Pat's style, he is far bigger than that I assure you, maybe he is a little forthright and it isn't unknown for anyone to get into such a frame of mind having being at the top of things GAA all his life.

In a way I think he is a guardian of quality and which is what we need to preserve; Jim McGuinness said pretty football doesn't win games hence the natural conflict at the outset; Pat doesn't have to win games and management's enjoyment is winning and as opposed to watching.

I see the good in Joe also and I often wonder if I have been harsh on him a times; ok he is also provocative but as Ulster culture is often more 'direct' then he will go for the throat. Joe is cuter with his choice of words and maybe that comes from the day job.

For those of us who can see beyond the cosmetics/veneer I don't think they are that bad, well until the next game anyway! Ah sure, don't they give us something to talk about, life would be boring otherwise.

Maybe the main point is, do they believe what they say and I think Pat knows more about the game, hence the confusion re wee Joe, is it that he doesn't know at times, or is it that he doesn't say it as he sees it and for whatever reason. I often wonder how much thought goes into it all, moreover given that it is all in the heat of the moment. John O'Keeffe give very good analysis on a Monday but I wonder what he'd be like at HT. Kevin McStay is similarly informative on The Sabbath Game, having had a few hours to mull over events. Am I making sense?

[Ballyfireside]

Feb 18, 2015 22:37:55 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

Feb 18, 2015 22:13:10 GMT Ballyfireside said:

Maybe what marks me out is that I don't much bother with bull*.

Quote of the century!

Ah sure I great Tomás!