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Post by glengael on Mar 8, 2015 21:59:49 GMT
Were you at Donegal's match this weekend donegalman? Any thoughts on it.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 8, 2015 22:44:48 GMT
Gavin Cummiskey
Sun, Mar 8, 2015, 15:17
Perspective is everything. So, Dublin and Tyrone play out a National Football league draw under Croke Park lights in early March.
Yet it’s relevance runs deeper than that.
A captivating tactical battle between modern heavyweights, this was also a spectacle best forgotten by the 27,469 pair of eyes, most of whom are young boys.
But of course they won’t forget; they will replicate the patterns.
A neutral sees a sport stagnated by an array of soft fouling, too subtle and too crafty to draw a referee’s ire. David Gough’s only yellow cards were for heavy challenges by growing Dublin recruits Tomás Brady and Emmett Ó Conghaile.
Afterwards Mickey Harte, Tyrone’s wise old sage cemented as manager with 12 years of regenerative success, and Jim Gavin, the Dublin manager who staunchly stands over a fast paced flowing philosophy, adopted interestingly similar views of what was offered as an advertisement for a game in serious competition with professional sports on this island.
“There is no right or wrong way to play,” said Gavin with his usual magnanimity. “It’s fascinating to be involved in the middle of it.
It’s a great challenge for coaches to set up their defensive systems and set up a system to counteract that.
“We saw in the All-Ireland final how that went. I don’t know if that’s the template for the future...”
Think it’s fascinating for the public Jim?
“I wouldn’t think so, no.”
Without mentioning rugby by name, Gavin seemed to reference Ireland under Joe Schmidt, pointedly the manner in which they counteract opponent’s driving maul by cleverly refusing to embrace it, via a chink in the rule book, thereby negating its effectiveness.
“The managers are playing within the rules. We see it in other sports at the elite level where it can be very strategic and tactical and it’s about holding onto possession and not conceding territory.
“Gaelic football has evolved that way. It might come back the other way but managers and player are playing within the rules,” he reiterated.
“Whether it is pretty on the eye, the All-Ireland champions don’t really mind. The counties who win the All-Ireland’s, who win the cups are just happy with victory.”
Ever tempted to join them?
“No,” Gavin replied.
Harte, the ultimate football pragmatist, also leaned into other sports while defending his team’s ultra defensive yet rapid counter-attacking ways.
“The game is about how well you can defend and how well you can attack,” said Harte. “It’s a very fluid game at the minute.
“I like to see difference in the game. I like to see quality defending. People don’t give defenders credit for defending with discipline. That’s good to see as well.
“Many other teams get all their players behind the ball, in fact in Premiership soccer - I know teams have 11 a side - but sure how often do teams have everybody behind the ball there, make a break and get scores.
“I don’t see why it should be any different in Gaelic games. If you need to defend as a team and as a unit then you need to attack that way as well.
“I think that’s entertaining when people break from the back at pace, with control, and get good scores.”
Tyrone did this with five of their twelve points. The others scores were from frees. Dublin posted 1-5 of their 1-9 from play with Dean Rock’s dead eye gathering the rest.
Harte was also asked whether he worried for the neutral who sought entertainment from Gaelic football. The answer coated in his perspective, his proven brand of winning at all cost.
“Whoever said goals were what makes the game? Whoever said that people only come to see goals? Goals are just one aspect of the game. Sure it’s nice when we see them from time to time.”
The contest drew two guttural roars from the paying gallery; Rock’s fisted goal in the 69th minute followed by the wave of end to end action that followed into injury time. Everyone calmed and departed as Niall Morgan’s late free flew wide.
“There are many other aspects of our game worth watching,” Harte continued. “I don’t think the people out there were very disappointed at all. I think they must have been very happy. Because there was a lot of energy, a lot of hard work, a lot of skilful play, a lot of good play under pressure.
“We have to look at the game in totality. Goals will come when they present themselves. Anybody who is going to Gaelic football to see goals only, maybe they should go to another game.”
Maybe, after Saturday night, they will.
“Supporters want to see good football, however that may be portrayed.
People see different qualities in what they’re looking at. I wouldn’t think that there is any one script, ‘This is how the game should be played.’
“The game will be played as it needs to be played. If people like that, they’ll come along; if they don’t they’ll vote with their feet and won’t be there.
“It’s the way it is at the moment, more than it used to be. It will change again. Nothing stands still.”
Those who weave football’s future have spoken.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 8, 2015 22:52:44 GMT
Dare I say that the best football played this weekend was by Cork? What is the world coming to? The end is nigh.
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Post by donegalman on Mar 9, 2015 0:26:57 GMT
Were you at Donegal's match this weekend donegalman? Any thoughts on it. Hi glengael. no I was not at the game. I was working this afternoon, but I spoke to a few knowledgeable people who were at the match. Consensus is that it was a terrible game, even if you are used to watching blanket defense systems. Donegal set out against the wind to keep the score down, and achieved this. 4 all at half time I think. The second half was abysmal. Monaghan defended very well indeed, and had the measure of our forwards to the extent that Murphy got 1-3 and McBreatry a single point, and no other DL player scored in the entire game. Apparently we didnt defend as deep as monaghan (if this is possible), but sure enough it happened. I think that there is a wake up call here for us now. I was never a fan of all or nothing belief in things, and for sure there is a precedent in this result. ie that there are teams out there who now can line out the same way, or similarly (or even more defensively), and win. Sticking to the formation no mater what is going to spell more results like this, and more importantly, more games like this, which wont be worth going to. Our lads played a lot of sideways football today, much recycling and possession, but ultimately the shooting and creation of chances were scarce. This is a worry. Also worrying is the run in of games that we have. away to you guys next week, followed by a tyrone team well and truly on the up followed by mayo on the last day. It is going to be either a horribly long short summer for us, or a rapid period of transformation. We will see. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt as I swore after the dublin match last year I would never doubt them again. Monaghan are always a bogie team for us, and I thought that last year we sorted that out to an extent. Its not exactly back to square one, but one thing is for certain, Monaghan are a dogged and stubborn unit. You cant fault them for effort and they are getting some consistency and belief again. I feel that they can surprise us all with at least one more big game in the league, if not two. That would keep them up, meaning we are in real bother.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 9, 2015 9:20:45 GMT
Four home wins next weekend would put Dublin in big trouble.
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Post by donegalman on Mar 9, 2015 11:38:00 GMT
Four home wins next weekend would put Dublin in big trouble. Dublin need 3 points to be more or less safe. I expect them to beat Derry at home in game 6. Next day out v Mayo will be a huge test, I think they wont do it. That means it will come down to the last day of the league against Monaghan. (they will be relying on Tyrone and ourselves not to pick up points. The game v Mayo looks like it is a deal breaker or maker for Dublin.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 9, 2015 11:44:58 GMT
Four home wins next weekend would put Dublin in big trouble. Dublin need 3 points to be more or less safe. I expect them to beat Derry at home in game 6. Next day out v Mayo will be a huge test, I think they wont do it. That means it will come down to the last day of the league against Monaghan. (they will be relying on Tyrone and ourselves not to pick up points. The game v Mayo looks like it is a deal breaker or maker for Dublin. Agreed. Could all come down to that game in Monaghan. Very interesting League so far to say the least even if the quality hasn't been hectic.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 9, 2015 21:30:32 GMT
We need to settle on a way to play, fast.
Thought the standard of Cork-Kerry wasn't great, alot of loose marking.
Just on Cluxton's save again, in reply the comments previously, to go down on a forward's feet with only a second to act, and time it and execute it as well as he did, without a hint of fouling, was all about the goaly, and not the forward. And I say that as someone who has been as critical as most abut his basic duties the past couple of years.
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Post by southward on Mar 9, 2015 23:02:08 GMT
Dublin need 3 points to be more or less safe. I expect them to beat Derry at home in game 6. Next day out v Mayo will be a huge test, I think they wont do it. That means it will come down to the last day of the league against Monaghan. (they will be relying on Tyrone and ourselves not to pick up points. The game v Mayo looks like it is a deal breaker or maker for Dublin. Agreed. Could all come down to that game in Monaghan. Very interesting League so far to say the least even if the quality hasn't been hectic. The way it's shaping up, there might be nobody safe going into the final weekend. Could be very interesting indeed. We'll be up in Tyrone, same as 2 years ago.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 11, 2015 20:00:16 GMT
Poor last night but fair play to Tyrone, they were very unlucky to not win but then again they seem to lack the real scoring quality. Sean Cavanagh looks like a fading fire, or else he isn't fit. Dublin lack conviction and any real belief in a plan at the moment. A lot of doubt after the way it fell apart last year. I don't think Gavin has any conviction about playing a different way. I also think they seem very unsure about what they want from the league. Thing is you can't just switch on form. Intensity may come but that's not nearly enough. In any case I really enjoy the league and want to see much better games. On the incidents mentioned, Cluxton made a brilliant save, something he hasn't done enough of the past couple of years. O'Gara did very well to set up the goal chance, then very poorly with the point chance. Rock did very well overall. Morgan seems to have lost all confidence in the free-taking, albeit the cross wind was very difficult for football. If Tyrone had a better scoring option they would still be a real force. Looking forward to the games today. Dublin's collapse against Donegal will create a doubt in the Dublin player's minds until they win another All-Ireland. The pressure will increase if they come up short this year and will probably result in a changing of the older guard in Dublin. 2015 will be a big year for the Dubs in determining their legacy.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Mar 12, 2015 1:14:40 GMT
Poor last night but fair play to Tyrone, they were very unlucky to not win but then again they seem to lack the real scoring quality. Sean Cavanagh looks like a fading fire, or else he isn't fit. Dublin lack conviction and any real belief in a plan at the moment. A lot of doubt after the way it fell apart last year. I don't think Gavin has any conviction about playing a different way. I also think they seem very unsure about what they want from the league. Thing is you can't just switch on form. Intensity may come but that's not nearly enough. In any case I really enjoy the league and want to see much better games. On the incidents mentioned, Cluxton made a brilliant save, something he hasn't done enough of the past couple of years. O'Gara did very well to set up the goal chance, then very poorly with the point chance. Rock did very well overall. Morgan seems to have lost all confidence in the free-taking, albeit the cross wind was very difficult for football. If Tyrone had a better scoring option they would still be a real force. Looking forward to the games today. Dublin's collapse against Donegal will create a doubt in the Dublin player's minds until they win another All-Ireland. The pressure will increase if they come up short this year and will probably result in a changing of the older guard in Dublin. 2015 will be a big year for the Dubs in determining their legacy. Dublin didn't collapse. Donegal overran them. Give them a bit of credit.
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Post by donegalman on Mar 12, 2015 1:44:44 GMT
The jury is out on dublin until sunday evening. I think that castlebar could define the rest of their year.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 12, 2015 8:20:11 GMT
Dublin collapsed like a house of cards against Donegal and several of their players went awol.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 12, 2015 8:37:41 GMT
The perfect script: in the weeks before playing a crucial league game against a team that have beaten them in the previous All Ireland final their opponents play games against their biggest rivals. Tempers flare up, they would like, a few black cards, a few yellows and even a red are shown in those games, televised and all, watched by almost every referee in the GAA world. In the week before the game a former selector, not a current member of the panel as that would discredit the management team, comes out saying that said opponents are very cynical and thus giving a signal to the referee for their game that he should keep a close eye on their opponents and not so much on them. A bit rich coming from the masters in the dark arts given that their star player has a bad disciplinary record as well and their management team has a bad record of badmouthing the opponents before games. Hoping perhaps that Eamon might nail that article to the room of the wall asking the players to go soft on their brittle opponents. Typical case of "can dish it out, can't take it" Kerry indeed have to shed some naivety and become tougher, but if you want cynicism look no further than the north west.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 12, 2015 14:46:30 GMT
Sometimes pictures say more than a thousand words /photo/1
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Post by Dermot on Mar 12, 2015 18:08:35 GMT
On the incidents mentioned, Cluxton made a brilliant save, something he hasn't done enough of the past couple of years. Really don't think it was all that good a save at all - Cluxton was out very quickly but I think Tiernan McCann did very poorly overall and I'd definitely have it down as a goal chance wasted as opposed to a brilliant save- McCann's woeful attempt to sell some sort of dummy was a complete waste of time and all his step towards goal did was close the gap between himself and Cluxton even more. A decent inter-county forward would have the shot off much faster but McCann took so long Cluxton was pretty much right on top of him. Id have to agree with that ... McCann made a complete balls of it .. terrible effort for a goal..he hit it too late and then too early ... Awful !! I think we need to stop bringing Morgan out for every single long free ... I dont think he's up to it tbh !!
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 12, 2015 20:51:48 GMT
The Cork Senior Football team to play Tyrone in Healy Park, Omagh, Sunday 15th March at 2:30pm is announced as follows: 1. Micheál Martin (Nemo Rangers)
2. James Loughrey (Mallow)
3. Michael Shields (St. Finbarr’s)
4. Tom Clancy (Clonakilty)
5. Tomás Clancy (Fermoy)
6. Stephen O’Donoghue (Ballincollig)
7. Jamie O’Sullivan (Bishopstown)
8. Eoin Cadogan (Douglas)
9. Fintan Goold (Macroom)
10. Kevin O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh)
11. John O’Rourke (Carbery Rangers)
12. Colm O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh)
13. Colm O’Neill (Ballyclough)
14. Mark Collins (Castlehaven)
15. Brian Hurley (Castlehaven)
Subs:
16. Ken O’Halloran (Bishopstown)
17. Conor Dorman (Bishopstown)
18. Noel Galvin (Ballincollig)
19. Donncha O’Connor (Ballydesmond)
20. Paul Kerrigan (Nemo Rangers)
21. Daniel Goulding (Éire Óg)
22. Donal Óg Hodnett (O’Donovan Rossa)
23. John Hayes (Carbery Rangers)
24. Barry O’Driscoll (Nemo Rangers)
Note: Ian Maguire, Brian O'Driscoll, Ruairi Deane, Patrick Kelly and Kevin Crowley were not considered due injury and U21 football commitments.
Selectors: Brian Cuthbert (Bishopstown) - Manager, Don Davis (O’Donovan Rossa), Owen Sexton (Kilbrittain), Ciaran O’Sullivan (Urhan), Ronan McCarthy (Douglas).
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 12, 2015 21:21:44 GMT
Be interesting to see how Martin gets on in goals and how the Cork forwards get on against the Tyrone defence.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 12, 2015 21:25:56 GMT
Be interesting to see how Martin gets on in goals and how the Cork forwards get on against the Tyrone defence. can't do worse than O'Halloran
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 12, 2015 21:51:39 GMT
Really don't think it was all that good a save at all - Cluxton was out very quickly but I think Tiernan McCann did very poorly overall and I'd definitely have it down as a goal chance wasted as opposed to a brilliant save- McCann's woeful attempt to sell some sort of dummy was a complete waste of time and all his step towards goal did was close the gap between himself and Cluxton even more. A decent inter-county forward would have the shot off much faster but McCann took so long Cluxton was pretty much right on top of him. Id have to agree with that ... McCann made a complete balls of it .. terrible effort for a goal..he hit it too late and then too early ... Awful !! I think we need to stop bringing Morgan out for every single long free ... I dont think he's up to it tbh !! Are we talking about a different passage of play? I'm talking about the one where the forward dropped the bll to his foot to slide it in but Cluxton dived at his feet and saved it off his toe, more or less.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 12, 2015 23:21:25 GMT
Id have to agree with that ... McCann made a complete balls of it .. terrible effort for a goal..he hit it too late and then too early ... Awful !! I think we need to stop bringing Morgan out for every single long free ... I dont think he's up to it tbh !! Are we talking about a different passage of play? I'm talking about the one where the forward dropped the bll to his foot to slide it in but Cluxton dived at his feet and saved it off his toe, more or less. There was only one incident when Cluxton made a save - it was just after Rory O'Carroll got sold an almighty dummy. Your memory of it seems radically different to myself and Dermot's - were you at the match or were you watching on television - to me it was all about McCann making an absolute hash of a one on one with a keeper and Cluxton making a bog-standard save. I tried looking to see if there was video of it anywhere but its not on TG4 anywhere and Setanta don't seem to have any GAA clips anywhere. Anyone else who saw this match care to add their 2 cents?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 13, 2015 8:01:22 GMT
Gas isn't it, I thought twas a brilliant bit of goalkeeping by Cluxton
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 13, 2015 17:56:48 GMT
Gas isn't it, I thought twas a brilliant bit of goalkeeping by Cluxton It#s very interesting to see how people remember the same incident. Why did you think it was brilliant by Cluxton - what did you think of McCann's finishing?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 13, 2015 23:06:56 GMT
Instinct, timing, recision, bravery.
I didn't think McCann did much different to what most forwards would have done
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Post by sullyschoice on Mar 13, 2015 23:53:46 GMT
He made a balls of the chance
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Post by sullyschoice on Mar 13, 2015 23:59:32 GMT
My prediction for the weekend iis that Denis Bastick will get sent off
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Mar 14, 2015 10:49:56 GMT
Gas isn't it, I thought twas a brilliant bit of goalkeeping by Cluxton It#s very interesting to see how people remember the same incident. Why did you think it was brilliant by Cluxton - what did you think of McCann's finishing? Exactly what Mick said. At what point did McCann have a chance to do anything more than he did? He received the ball, took one step, dropped it to his toe to slide it in, and in that moment Cluxton dived in and got the ball. And into the bargain, he did it without getting the man, which most goalies tend to do in that situation. Furthermore, most players in the attacking position there wouldn't even have dropped the ball as quick to their toe as McCann did, they would try to go to step to the side (might have been a better option but Cluxton came to him very very quick), or they would hit the shot a bit higher (given they have a split second to act) and the keeper would block it fairly handy. And yes I was at the game, though I'm not sure what the relevance of that is, as the view on the telly of split-second incidents from close up is 100% better than a moment from 50 yards away (at best for most people in a big stadium) with the naked eye. And yes, I did see the replay on tv. You see what we have here is some people suffering from a typical case of 'what they really wanted to happen' (a goal being scored from a great chance) not happening, and being unable to separate their disappointment from the reality of what happened in detail. 'It had to be McCann's fault. Cluxton is always overrated'. And in truth, he hasn't been too good, as I said above, with some of the bread and butter stuff the last couple of years. But looking at the incident in isolation of all those things, no matter who the goaly was, it was simply a very good save. Sullyschoice is clearly not a reliable source of opinion as his pupils are too dilated with all the cricket excitement.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 15, 2015 10:04:01 GMT
Dublin demolish Mayo in majestic first-half display
Dublin 2-18 Mayo 0-10
John Fallon in Castlebar
Three years ago this tie at McHale Park ended at half-time when fog descended, and it was all over last night by the break again after Dublin produced a breathtaking opening half to blow Mayo away.
Dublin went in at the break in front of a large crowd of 13,548 of leading by 2-10 to 0-6 and might well have been even further ahead had they made the most of their goal chances.
There was never a hint of a Mayo comeback in the second-half and only an injury-time free from Kevin McLoughlin prevented this from being their heaviest ever league defeat to Dublin.
It was blanket attack from both sides in a riveting and refreshing encounter but Dublin, unlike Mayo, knew how to defend and built up a big early lead despite going behind to a couple of points from Jason Doherty and Kevin McLoughlin.
But they really took over once Tomas Brady got them off the mark after seven minutes as they hit Mayo for 1-5 in a blistering six-minute spell which left the home side shocked.
Dublin managed to find space all over the pitch and yet get back to smother any real threat from Mayo. Denis Bastick gave them a huge breakthrough when he finished to an empty net after a piledriver from Bernard Brogan came back off the crossbar.
Brady, Ciaran Kilkenny and Jack McCaffrey quickly added points and Dean Rock made it 1-5 to 0-2 after just 13 minutes when he got their first free.
Mayo lifted the siege every so often with Doherty and McLoughlin pointing but Dublin always looked more dangerous going forward and they struck a second goal after Brogan scored, although it seemed that Kevin McMenamon had hopped the ball twice running in.
Early second-half points from McCaffrey and Paul Flynn killed off any hope of a Mayo revival and the pace of the game dropped enormously as Dublin got men behind the ball and just defended their lead.
They still managed to outscore Mayo by double scores in the second-half as they equalled their 14-point record win 21 years ago over the Connacht champions.
Mayo managed just two points from play in the second-half and both of them came from subs Alan Dillon and Danny Kirby as Mayo failed to score a goal in the league for the first time this season.
Scorers - Dublin: D Rock 0-6 (6f), B Brogan 1-1, D Bastick 1-0, T Brady 0-3, C Kilkenny, J McCaffrey 0-2 each, D Connolly, J Cooper, P Flynn, P Ryan 0-1 each. Mayo: J Doherty 0-4 (3f), K McLoughlin 0-3 (1f), M Ronaldson, A Dillon, D Kirby 0-1 each.
Dublin: S Cluxton; P McMahon, R O'Carroll, E Culligan; J Cooper, C O'Sullivan, J McCaffrey; D Bastick, T Brady; P Flynn, D Connolly, C Kilkenny; K McManamon, D Rock, B Brogan. Subs: M Fitzsimons for O'Carroll (35), J Small for Culligan (50), B Fenton for Bastick (59), E O'Gara for Brogan (59), J McCarthy for Brady (61), P Ryan for McMenamon (63).
Mayo: R Hennelly; T Cunniffe, K Keane, K Higgins; C Boyle, L Keegan, P Durcan; S O'Shea, D Vaughan; J Doherty, D O'Connor, K McLoughlin; M Ronaldson, A O'Shea, A Freeman. Subs: D Kirby for Freeman (46), S Coen for Durcan (46), A Dillon for O'Connor (50), M Sweeney for Ronaldson (51), B Moran for S O'Shea (53), G Cafferkey for Vaughan (63).
Referee: P O'Sullivan (Kerry).
Sunday Indo Sport
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Post by jackeensabhog on Mar 15, 2015 10:37:48 GMT
Are we talking about a different passage of play? I'm talking about the one where the forward dropped the bll to his foot to slide it in but Cluxton dived at his feet and saved it off his toe, more or less. There was only one incident when Cluxton made a save - it was just after Rory O'Carroll got sold an almighty dummy. Your memory of it seems radically different to myself and Dermot's - were you at the match or were you watching on television - to me it was all about McCann making an absolute hash of a one on one with a keeper and Cluxton making a bog-standard save. I tried looking to see if there was video of it anywhere but its not on TG4 anywhere and Setanta don't seem to have any GAA clips anywhere. Anyone else who saw this match care to add their 2 cents? I was at the game. It was good goal keeping. He snuffed out the opportunity very quickly. McCann didn't do much wrong
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Post by jackeensabhog on Mar 15, 2015 10:40:58 GMT
My prediction for the weekend iis that Denis Bastick will get sent off My prediction for this weekend is that K. Donaghy will get an opposing player sent off
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