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Post by hurlingman on Jan 19, 2015 21:25:49 GMT
Just to lighten the mood and little and have something not too serious to talk about, i've thought of a few alternative scenarios for Kerry GAA.
First off what if Ger Powers father never got transferred to Tralee? Would it have made a difference to the golden years team? Would they still have won as much as they did? Or less? How would it have impacted the Stacks team of the 70s?
This one is a little different. What if Barry O Shea didn't get the injuries that ended is Kerry career early and he was Full Back from 2000 on? This would have released Seamus Moynihan to the half back line for longer. Would Kerry have won an extra All Ireland during 2001-03? Another interesting thing to think about if this happened would be if the likes of Marc or Aidan O'Mahony would have made the brake trough?
What if Tadhg Kennelly never went to Australia? Would he have held a place on the team for the long run? If he had a place in the half forward line would Paul Galvin have made it? Like with the Barry O Shea question would Kerry have more more All Irelands in the early part of the 2000's?
What if Paul Galvin have stayed with hurling rather then football? Would Kerry have won the All Irelands they did if he didnt play? What impact would it have on hurling?
What would have happened had Seamus Darby missed in 1982? Would Kerry have gone on to win the 3 in a row from 1984-86? Would Micko have stayed on? Would more of the players have retired?
What if Micko never became manager in 75? Would the Kerry team of that era still have had the success that they did? Would Cork have regrouped after being beaten in the All Ireland the year before?
Had Tommy Walsh not left after the 09 All Ireland would Kerry have waited as long for their next title?
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Post by ballynamona on Jan 19, 2015 22:09:29 GMT
ah, whatiffery. Easy to denounce, but hard to resist. I'll chip in on a few.
No disrespect whatsoever to Barry O'Shea, but I doubt if Kerry would have won the All-Ireland in 2000 without Moynihan at full-back. He was immense in titanic struggles with Armagh and Galway. Barry O'Shea was a natural full-back, but I feel that Moynihan filled the position better even though he was of course missed out the field.
I think Mike McCarthy's years out are more worthy of discussion relating to All-Irelands that got away. He missed out on 2007 (when Kerry won) and 2008. It would have been massive to have him on board in 2008. But ultimately what cost Kerry more All-Irelands in the 2000s was tactical naivete.
It has often been said that the 84-86 three in a row would not have happened without the 82 defeat. Thinking about it though I would be hard pressed to say who the extra retirements would have been. For example Pat Spillane had a fierce drive to get back from injury and I think would have got back even if they had won in 82. The 5 elders by the time 1986 came around were Paidi, Ger Power, Mikey Sheehy, Pat Spillane and Ogie Moran. They all had great appetite for the game and none of them left go too easily. Maybe some might have retired for a year but later come back if the 5 in a row had happened. The standard nationally in 84-86 was a bit below what it had been in the 75-82 era.
I don't think Kerry would have had the same success from 75 to 86 without Micko. People say he had the players - true enough. But very few people would have been brave enough to give such a young team a go. He jettisoned some big names in the county and kept just a few links with the 69/70 era, in fact there were only a few survivors from the 1972 runners-up by 75. He also kept a richly talented core group together for years. And it was quite a tight group. Micko could apparently be quite ruthless to people who stepped out of line even in a minor way. In Owen McCrohan's book he names Vincent O'Connor and Johnny Mulvihill as men who learned that.
I'm sure that fact that Micko kept plugging away until the end of the 80s was one of the reasons that so many of the stalwarts didn't retire. The downside of course was that the team grew old together.
On Tommy Walsh - yes, he was a massive loss. I don't think Kerry would have had such a long wait if Tommy Walsh had not gone to Australia.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 19, 2015 23:20:32 GMT
I found myself in the workshop of a fiddle maker last Saturday in Dublin.
He showed me books on Stradivari. Stradivari lived in a small town called Cremona in North Italy. Amazingly, his neighbours Amatis and Guarneris were equally as good at the craft and their fiddles are also priceless. Stradivari is more famous as his fiddles carried sound better in music halls.
So driving home I was thinking about the chances of three of the greatest fiddle makers to be living in the same spot at the same time. But then, I thought about Mick O'Connell, Mick O'Dwyer, Maurice Fitzgerald and Declan O Sullivan living in virtually the same spot at the same time.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 20, 2015 0:13:02 GMT
I found myself in the workshop of a fiddle maker last Saturday in Dublin. He showed me books on Stradivari. Stradivari lived in a small town called Cremona in North Italy. Amazingly, his neighbours Amatis and Guarneris were equally as good at the craft and their fiddles are also priceless. Stradivari is more famous as his fiddles carried sound better in music halls. So driving home I was thinking about the chances of three of the greatest fiddle makers to be living in the same spot at the same time. But then, I thought about Mick O'Connell, Mick O'Dwyer, Maurice Fitzgerald and Declan O Sullivan living in virtually the same spot at the same time. Jack O'Shea? Or is he not an artist? |
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fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
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Post by fitz on Jan 20, 2015 10:26:46 GMT
What if this was a Mayo GAA forum?
Shiver. Thanks be to our blessings.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 20, 2015 19:05:33 GMT
I found myself in the workshop of a fiddle maker last Saturday in Dublin. He showed me books on Stradivari. Stradivari lived in a small town called Cremona in North Italy. Amazingly, his neighbours Amatis and Guarneris were equally as good at the craft and their fiddles are also priceless. Stradivari is more famous as his fiddles carried sound better in music halls. So driving home I was thinking about the chances of three of the greatest fiddle makers to be living in the same spot at the same time. But then, I thought about Mick O'Connell, Mick O'Dwyer, Maurice Fitzgerald and Declan O Sullivan living in virtually the same spot at the same time. Jack O'Shea? Or is he not an artist? Jesus! Jacko was in a different category altogether. The greatest player of them all. |
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 22, 2015 20:17:40 GMT
What if the ref hadn't given that last free in the 2011 final?
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Jan 22, 2015 20:23:44 GMT
Kerry would have been champs but he did and the Dubs were. As someone said earlier these things even themselves out always. I thought Mayo were very lucky to be in last years semi. The ref was kind to them against Cork.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 22, 2015 20:29:31 GMT
Kerry would have been champs but he did and the Dubs were. As someone said earlier these things even themselves out always. I thought Mayo were very lucky to be in last years semi. The ref was kind to them against Cork. It would have been a draw?? |
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dano
Senior Member
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Post by dano on Jan 22, 2015 20:32:43 GMT
KB 06,Kerry's record in replays would have been a huge factor and Kerry would have gone on to win it! imho.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 22, 2015 21:35:06 GMT
What if the ref hadn't given that last free in the 2011 final? I think that Dublin would have won the replay. The bit was between their teeth and Kerry weren't winning enough ball in midfield that year. |
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jan 22, 2015 23:20:32 GMT
So it would definitely have ended a draw? I think we'd have got the winner from play, the free just held us up and made it more difficult. Stole a bit of the glory too
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Post by ballynamona on Jan 23, 2015 19:23:18 GMT
On the subject of whatiffery...
Back in 2005, Donaghy was on the Kerry panel (as a midfielder) and made a late appearance in the AI SF v Cork. A good few people in Tralee were saying he should be given a run at full-forward.
Tyrone were the better team in the final, no question, but they were vulnerable under the high ball after Cormac McAnallen's tragic death. Chris Lawn was not the most commanding full-back. Giving Donaghy a run may well have been more rewarding than giving Darran O'Sullivan his senior debut.
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Post by jerryewe on Jan 24, 2015 4:00:07 GMT
What if Declan O' Sullivan's shot in the 70th minute of the 2013 semi final hadn't tailed off? Dublin won the kickout and McManamon got his goal.
Would Kerry have been able to hang on? The legs were going at the time and they were struggling to keep going but with that the end in sight would they have been able to close it out
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 24, 2015 11:10:07 GMT
What if Declan O' Sullivan's shot in the 70th minute of the 2013 semi final hadn't tailed off? Dublin won the kickout and McManamon got his goal. Would Kerry have been able to hang on? The legs were going at the time and they were struggling to keep going but with that the end in sight would they have been able to close it out It would have been very interesting all right if Declan had put Kerry one up on the 70th minutes and if Kerry had won the kick out. |
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keane
Fanatical Member
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Post by keane on Jan 24, 2015 12:54:26 GMT
Of all the Declan Sullivan moments you could wish to change surely the brilliant save of his goal effort in 08 would be the one!
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