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Post by homerj on Dec 1, 2014 12:32:37 GMT
so, with the year almost over, who do people think can break into the senior squad, even first 15 next season and give an impact with Murphy had this year and like Fionn, Crowley & O donoghue have done in the last 2 years.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 1, 2014 14:23:19 GMT
I would be interested in examples of players who improved after 25 and came into the reckoning past that age. Rare enough I would imagine. Are there any out there for Kerry? This might be a player who improved late or cleaned up their act.
I hate to use another sport by way of analogy but someone like James Coughlan who used to play rugby with Munster, now with Pau in France, who only became a regular for Munster in his late 20s.
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Post by hurlingman on Dec 1, 2014 16:36:21 GMT
I would be interested in examples of players who improved after 25 and came into the reckoning past that age. Rare enough I would imagine. Are there any out there for Kerry? This might be a player who improved late or cleaned up their act. I hate to use another sport by way of analogy but someone like James Coughlan who used to play rugby with Munster, now with Pau in France, who only became a regular for Munster in his late 20s. Would indeed be interesting. I think anyone whos playing well, regardless of age should be looked at. Theres far too much importance put on fellas having had to play minor and under 21, and anyone who didn't shouldn't be considered. Players develop at different rates. Some lads can peak at 18/19, while others might not be fully developed until 22/23. Another very common thing seen no here is the classic ''Hes not up to it'' fair enough to say this about a fella whos been given a lot of chances and didn't make it, but how can this be said about a player who has never been given a chance? a player who i feel is a good example of this is Tom McGoldrick from Brosna. Now maybe not now but for the last number of years he was always a good performer in the county championship yet was never looked at. Why? Because he didnt play at underage, and before the usual ''he wasn't up to it'' BS starts you have no way for knowing that. How many people would have said Paul Galvin would have turned out to be the player he was? Or Aidan O'Mahony? Any player whos playing well at county championship level should be looked at
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 1, 2014 17:17:05 GMT
Defenders. Defenders. Defenders.
If there are to be any breakthrough players, it will surely be in the ranks of the defenders. You look at the various areas of the squad and the squad depth in the forwards and midfield are far greater in these area compared to the defenders.
A key issue is what happens with Marc and Aidan. The bit below shows the age and number of Kerry appearances of our defenders. I've also included Brian McGuire, even though I've no idea if he is a realistic possibility for next year given how relatively experienced he is.
The stat which really shows the lack of squad depth for the defenders is that if Marc, Aidan and Brian aren't involved next year Paul Murphy would be Kerry's 6th most experienced intercounty defender. Even if all three of these lads are involved, there will surely be opportunities for lads to start pushing for places among the defenders, given Marc and Aidan's ages. The stat that really shows how much Marc and Aidan have contributed to the Kerry cause is that the total of their appearances is greater than all of the other defenders combined.
The obvious place to start is the lads who were on the fringes of the panel this year - it's a lot shorter a distance to go from the fringes of the squad to being involved than to go from outside the squad to being involved.
Player Age Appearances
Marc Ó Sé 34 159 Aidan O’Mahony 34 140 Killian Young 27 81 Shane Enright 26 42 Peter Crowley 24 34 Brian McGuire 25 23 Fionn Fitzgeral 24 20 Mark Griffin 23 14 Paul Murphy 23 13 Jack Sherwood 23 7 Pa Kilkenny 22 6 David Culhane 22 2
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Post by ballynamona on Dec 1, 2014 19:15:08 GMT
As far as I know, Maguire is still in Kentucky. I may be mistaken. He didn't seem to get the breaks, I thought he always acquitted himself well.
Jonathan Lyne could be added to your list above. He is probably better in the forwards, but can play wing-back.
Personally I think Marc is definitely good for another year, and it would be a fool who would tell O'Mahony his time was up after this year. But we are living on borrowed time with them. Stranger things have happened than Tommy Walsh playing at centre back. I think that is plausible as we are well stocked in the attack and midfield. Walsh would bring great strength and height to the sector. Just suppose Marc retired, you could have this as your championship defence.
Paul Murphy Aidan O'Mahony Fionn Fitzgerald Peter Crowley Tommy Walsh Killian Young
Pa Kilkenny and Shane Enright would be pushing strongly for starting places.
Jack Sherwood can hopefully become a real option this year too.
Unfortunately, there is no obvious 'natural' full back coming through as far as I am aware. Mark Griffin is probably more comfortable out the field.
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 1, 2014 21:02:43 GMT
As far as I know, Maguire is still in Kentucky. I may be mistaken. He didn't seem to get the breaks, I thought he always acquitted himself well. Jonathan Lyne could be added to your list above. He is probably better in the forwards, but can play wing-back. Personally I think Marc is definitely good for another year, and it would be a fool who would tell O'Mahony his time was up after this year. But we are living on borrowed time with them. Stranger things have happened than Tommy Walsh playing at centre back. I think that is plausible as we are well stocked in the attack and midfield. Walsh would bring great strength and height to the sector. Just suppose Marc retired, you could have this as your championship defence. Paul Murphy Aidan O'Mahony Fionn Fitzgerald Peter Crowley Tommy Walsh Killian Young Pa Kilkenny and Shane Enright would be pushing strongly for starting places. Jack Sherwood can hopefully become a real option this year too. Unfortunately, there is no obvious 'natural' full back coming through as far as I am aware. Mark Griffin is probably more comfortable out the field. I had heard McGuire was back in Listowel but not sure for how long. Might only have been a holiday. Maybe someone might know more ? Yeah should have included Lyne -he's 24 and has 21 appearances for Kerry. If I had to bet right now I would expect both Marc and Aidan to hang up the boots. Also I would be fairly shocked if Tommy Walsh ended up in defence - really cant see him lining out there with Kerins O'Rahillys and it would be a fairly massive ask for him to line out there for Kerry. It's all very well to name 6 players and say that's your 6 backs - but the fact of the matter is that you will get injuries - saw a stat recently that pro rugby teams generally have 30% of their squad out injured at all times and while football doesn't have anything as bad as that you can be guaranteed that players will get injured. That's before you go anywhere near the issue of needing substitutes for the lads who have an off day. The fact of the matter is that it looks like there will be a serious lack of experienced squad depth for a team that is one of the favourites for Sam Also I'd be very surprised if many over 25s got involved in the squad, given the level of commitment required for intercounty. 90 pitch sessions and 90 gym sessions were mentioned at the Homecoming and for anyone over 25 that's surely a serious step-up from even the most dedicated club.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Dec 2, 2014 1:56:09 GMT
As far as I know, Maguire is still in Kentucky. I may be mistaken. He didn't seem to get the breaks, I thought he always acquitted himself well. Jonathan Lyne could be added to your list above. He is probably better in the forwards, but can play wing-back. Personally I think Marc is definitely good for another year, and it would be a fool who would tell O'Mahony his time was up after this year. But we are living on borrowed time with them. Stranger things have happened than Tommy Walsh playing at centre back. I think that is plausible as we are well stocked in the attack and midfield. Walsh would bring great strength and height to the sector. Just suppose Marc retired, you could have this as your championship defence. Paul Murphy Aidan O'Mahony Fionn Fitzgerald Peter Crowley Tommy Walsh Killian Young Pa Kilkenny and Shane Enright would be pushing strongly for starting places. Jack Sherwood can hopefully become a real option this year too. Unfortunately, there is no obvious 'natural' full back coming through as far as I am aware. Mark Griffin is probably more comfortable out the field. this years minor full back looks a "natural" to me. Next year a bit too soon for him though. Tommy Walsh in defence is worth consideration as you have pointed out. a long shot but not that crazy an idea. Sure his dad kept going back the field to great effect ending up at full back!
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Post by buck02 on Dec 2, 2014 9:04:48 GMT
From the 2014 U21s I would be looking at Crowley and Horan to maybe push for a place on the panel next year.
From last years extended panel I would be looking towards Sherwood, Conor Keane and maybe Mangan.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 2, 2014 15:12:51 GMT
I think the player that makes the most impact could be Greg Horan. I wouldn't be surprised to see him wearing a number between 20 and 26 in the championship.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Dec 2, 2014 17:12:28 GMT
I think the player that makes the most impact could be Greg Horan. I wouldn't be surprised to see him wearing a number between 20 and 26 in the championship. he certainly is improving. Really benefitting from Stacks run
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 2, 2014 17:33:23 GMT
I think the player that makes the most impact could be Greg Horan. I wouldn't be surprised to see him wearing a number between 20 and 26 in the championship. A very good prospect but I think you are getting ahead of yourself here. He has played 1 game at under 21 level so far in his intercounty career- let him develop a bit more as he is not yet up to senior intercounty standard
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Post by KeysToTheKingdom on Dec 3, 2014 23:05:54 GMT
Hopefully the likes of pa Kilkenny, Jonathan Lyne and jack sherwood get some game time before the c'ship... maybe even some of the u21's after the hastings cup finishes... also need to groom a full back after o'mahony goes...is Anthony maher worth a try considering the amount of options we will have for midfield next year
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Post by A.N. Other on Dec 3, 2014 23:33:11 GMT
Shane Ryan is a real prospect. If he develops the way he has been and just fulfills 75% of his potential he will be our first choice for the next 10-15 years. Great shot stopper, good kickouts, a big man and confident under the high ball.
To my knowledge he's the only minor from the All Ireland winning team that's been called into the Senior panel so I'd expect him to get a few McGrath Cup games and see how he goes from there.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 4, 2014 10:39:39 GMT
Hopefully the likes of pa Kilkenny, Jonathan Lyne and jack sherwood get some game time before the c'ship... maybe even some of the u21's after the hastings cup finishes... also need to groom a full back after o'mahony goes...is Anthony maher worth a try considering the amount of options we will have for midfield next year I suggested this a few months back and was told he's a fine midfielder. I think he is, but not the most creative we have, hence his height and steel could be very valuable at FB. He would need a lot of time there to adjust but I'd like to watch that time
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Dec 4, 2014 10:42:08 GMT
I would be interested in examples of players who improved after 25 and came into the reckoning past that age. Rare enough I would imagine. Are there any out there for Kerry? This might be a player who improved late or cleaned up their act. I hate to use another sport by way of analogy but someone like James Coughlan who used to play rugby with Munster, now with Pau in France, who only became a regular for Munster in his late 20s. Well I know I'm short of the bar but Aidan and Paul were both 24 before establishing first 15 status, so it is worth keeping an eye on this bracket for sure
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animal
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Post by animal on Dec 4, 2014 11:53:49 GMT
I would like to see some of the lads who made such a significant impact off the bench in Limerick V Mayo getting plenty game time in the league. Barry John had perhaps his best year for Kerry coming off the bench making an impact. I'd also like to see Pa Kilkenny and Jonathan Lyne get good runs for the league. This will also be the first league in a number of years that the Crokes contingent will be available from the off. Also while you could say he made his breakthrough last year Stephen O'Brien had a very unlucky time with injuries in the summer. The fact that he started the final shows the regard the management have for him. I would hope he continues his upward curve.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 17:25:09 GMT
Shane Ryan is a real prospect. If he develops the way he has been and just fulfills 75% of his potential he will be our first choice for the next 10-15 years. Great shot stopper, good kickouts, a big man and confident under the high ball. To my knowledge he's the only minor from the All Ireland winning team that's been called into the Senior panel so I'd expect him to get a few McGrath Cup games and see how he goes from there. I think he could be taking over sooner than you think,I mean, What has Brian Kelly got that no one else has like?
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Post by hurlingman on Dec 4, 2014 18:07:10 GMT
Shane Ryan is a real prospect. If he develops the way he has been and just fulfills 75% of his potential he will be our first choice for the next 10-15 years. Great shot stopper, good kickouts, a big man and confident under the high ball. To my knowledge he's the only minor from the All Ireland winning team that's been called into the Senior panel so I'd expect him to get a few McGrath Cup games and see how he goes from there. Could well be a prospect at full forward going by his club displays
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Post by givehimaball on Dec 5, 2014 13:20:17 GMT
Little snippet buried away in a story on the financials in the independent today - sounds like Aidan is going to continue to give it a go in terms of battling on next year. According to the snippet he will be missing for the McGrath Cup and the 3 opening rounds of the league. I thought this was a bit "weirdly specific" so had a look at the dates of the league fixtures - the 3rd round of the league is the game against Dublin on the 1st of March, while the 4th game is against Cork on the 8th of March. It's not a Munster final but shure a game against the neighbours is a good targetto have while working through surgery rehab.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Dec 7, 2014 17:27:09 GMT
I think I've said it here before, but I think Tommy Walsh could well end up playing in defence next year, particularly if Star can bring this years form into next and of the course the return of Colm.
Tommy played alot of his football behind the ball when in Oz, marking guys like Micheal Murphy, Aiden O Se etc wouldn't be beyond his abilities now. But all depends on options in Midfield and forward being as strong/stronger than this year.
Greg Horan is someone who looks ready for senior intercounty action.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 7, 2014 23:49:52 GMT
I think it is NOT a runner to play Tommy Walsh in defence.
For years we have two problems in defence.
Firstly, we haven't produced a natural fullback in half a century because every young fella in Kerry wants to be an attacker so they come up through the ranks without getting the proper coaching. Thankfully that hasn't stopped us winning All-Irelands - we have always found someone to step into the position.
Secondly, (at centre back) we have serious difficulty dealing with the players soloing through the centre. This amazes me. When I was 12 to 14 we were coached on how to deal with this. A solo commits a player to about 4 strides (legally that is). When a player drops the ball to his toe, he will not have clean possession of it again for about 4 yards. You time your burst to meet him when he doesn't have possession. Kerry is not producing a lot of players with the right timing.
Peter Crowley has it. When he wasn't playing in early summer, I thought he may be going through a loss of form and said on this forum that even if he wasn't at his best he should still start. His natural instincts were obvious in the final.
Actually, in the 2000 All-Ireland final - middle of the second half - Maurice Fitzgerald moved to midfield - he fielded a ball cleanly and went on a solo run - John Divilly Galway centre back normally had his timing right - but Fitz (genius) soloed with his right and in mid stride soloed with his left, changing everything, and threw Divilly's timing totally out of kilter - Fitz put it over the bar - a decisive moment - genius.
Which brings me to the point. We cannot pluck Tommy Walsh from the other side of the globe and think he will automatically fill either role. Apart from that I am of the opinion that coaching in his formative years did not include much defencive timing.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Dec 8, 2014 18:14:37 GMT
I think it is NOT a runner to play Tommy Walsh in defence. For years we have two problems in defence. Firstly, we haven't produced a natural fullback in half a century because every young fella in Kerry wants to be an attacker so they come up through the ranks without getting the proper coaching. Thankfully that hasn't stopped us winning All-Irelands - we have always found someone to step into the position. Secondly, (at centre back) we have serious difficulty dealing with the players soloing through the centre. This amazes me. When I was 12 to 14 we were coached on how to deal with this. A solo commits a player to about 4 strides (legally that is). When a player drops the ball to his toe, he will not have clean possession of it again for about 4 yards. You time your burst to meet him when he doesn't have possession. Kerry is not producing a lot of players with the right timing. Peter Crowley has it. When he wasn't playing in early summer, I thought he may be going through a loss of form and said on this forum that even if he wasn't at his best he should still start. His natural instincts were obvious in the final. Actually, in the 2000 All-Ireland final - middle of the second half - Maurice Fitzgerald moved to midfield - he fielded a ball cleanly and went on a solo run - John Divilly Galway centre back normally had his timing right - but Fitz (genius) soloed with his right and in mid stride soloed with his left, changing everything, and threw Divilly's timing totally out of kilter - Fitz put it over the bar - a decisive moment - genius. Which brings me to the point. We cannot pluck Tommy Walsh from the other side of the globe and think he will automatically fill either role. Apart from that I am of the opinion that coaching in his formative years did not include much defencive timing. I'm not saying that he should be, just that it is in my opinion a realistic option. I'm sure it is something Eamon will consider, whether he goes with it or not is he's call, Eamon knows better. Of course this is all dependent on having: 1. Maher/Moran/Buckley/Sheehan to choose from at midfield. 2. Gooch, James, Star, Donnacha, Paul Geaney, SOB....plus Lyne, Buckley/Sheehan, Darren, Mike Geaney....and I'm probably forgetting some other forward who could get on any other team in Ireland. It's just another option, many players have made the move from attack to defence with far less experience than Tommy.
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Post by ballynamona on Dec 8, 2014 19:57:06 GMT
I had floated the idea of Tommy Walsh playing centre back. Kerry exile makes good points, but the issue is that there is not a huge amount of cover in defence by comparision with other areass.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 8, 2014 20:31:39 GMT
What people need to realise at this stage is that there are very few set positions in any team- a good example would be in recent years you have players like Frank McGlynn scoring regularly from corner back.
The idea of having Tommy further out the field will definitely be one that Eamon will look at- he has to look it to be honest. Tommy is a top class athlete that could easily occupy several position, including one of those in the half back line.
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Post by gamechanger10 on Dec 9, 2014 11:05:54 GMT
I agree with the notion that Tommy could be played in the centre back roll or maybe even considered in the full back position. He is after four hard years of professional training and he is certainly the fittest field athlete in in Kerry if not Ireland at this time. The professional training in Aussie football is very much geared towards tackling and providing cover, to me he will adapt to his native game quiet fast I believe and by April we should have a good idea where his strengths are best suited. I know he would be a wonderful asset in the forwards but we have plenty of weaponry in that section as it stands. In the centre back position he would provide a very strong launch pad for effective attacking options, he has great hands and is very fast and strong in the air or on the ground. Every team will be targeting our back lines as they know no matter what they do that our forwards will do serious damage regardless what they do. After Donaghy causing so much damage in the latter part of this years championship I think a lot of other teams will be developing similar strategies to test full back lines, from what I heard in the A v B games in the Kerry camp last year from early July on, Star was tearing our A teams back line to shreds and they couldn't deal with him, so much so that I think the A team only won a handful of those games. A big athletic man with the mobility and strength could get us out of a tight one next year, I wonder if Walsh was wearing the Mayo number three jersey in limerick would Star have caused so much damage ?? Some might consider it a waste but it could be very rewarding to have Walsh in the defence next year.
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Post by buck02 on Dec 9, 2014 11:10:31 GMT
What people need to realise at this stage is that there are very few set positions in any team- a good example would be in recent years you have players like Frank McGlynn scoring regularly from corner back.
The idea of having Tommy further out the field will definitely be one that Eamon will look at- he has to look it to be honest. Tommy is a top class athlete that could easily occupy several position, including one of those in the half back line. It amazes me that there are still people who come out with comments like "We have no natural full back". What is a natural full back these days? Against Cork James Donoghue was effectively full forward. Against Galway it was Declan. Stephen O Brien started there against Mayo the first day. Donaghy in the replay and final along with Geaney. If there is a full back out there that would be suited to marking all of them, then he is going to be the greatest player of his generation. Kerry need 9 backs capable of playing anywhere across the full back and half back lines. The 6 that started the final will be there next year and you still have Shane Enright, Pa Kilkenny, Mark Griffin and maybe even John Lyne.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Dec 9, 2014 15:34:22 GMT
I agree with the notion that Tommy could be played in the centre back roll or maybe even considered in the full back position. He is after four hard years of professional training and he is certainly the fittest field athlete in in Kerry if not Ireland at this time. The professional training in Aussie football is very much geared towards tackling and providing cover, to me he will adapt to his native game quiet fast I believe and by April we should have a good idea where his strengths are best suited. I know he would be a wonderful asset in the forwards but we have plenty of weaponry in that section as it stands. In the centre back position he would provide a very strong launch pad for effective attacking options, he has great hands and is very fast and strong in the air or on the ground. Every team will be targeting our back lines as they know no matter what they do that our forwards will do serious damage regardless what they do. After Donaghy causing so much damage in the latter part of this years championship I think a lot of other teams will be developing similar strategies to test full back lines, from what I heard in the A v B games in the Kerry camp last year from early July on, Star was tearing our A teams back line to shreds and they couldn't deal with him, so much so that I think the A team only won a handful of those games. A big athletic man with the mobility and strength could get us out of a tight one next year, I wonder if Walsh was wearing the Mayo number three jersey in limerick would Star have caused so much damage ?? Some might consider it a waste but it could be very rewarding to have Walsh in the defence next year. Plus the most important thing to consider is that, Tommy has actually played full back whilst in Oz. He spent a large portion of his playing time in defense. Yeah it's not the same as GAA, but he has experience of marking big full forwards, playing behind the ball and competing for those long passes into the full forward line. If Star, Gooch and James are fit...Tommy can be deployed onto guys like A O Se, Mike Murphy etc. with confidence.
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Post by townend on Dec 10, 2014 1:37:38 GMT
give the lad a chance to get his feet back on irish soil before we have him in every poistion on the field
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Dec 10, 2014 19:22:14 GMT
Alot of cranky people on the forum these days. Cheer up boys!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 10, 2014 20:18:10 GMT
Walsh's father was star at FF, FB and MF, but still the only way is to try Tommy out. Given the reduced emphasis on positional play and together with man marking, official player stationing is now less significant, with goalkeeping the only exception.
The late Eddie Dowling of Ballydonoghue classed Tadhg Kennelly as a 'dandy' footballer in that he could play 2-15 and in contrast to his late father The Horse who was a pure defender.
I'd say Tommy could star at 2-15 as he has demonstrated exceptional play making skills and is a great man to lay it off. I don't think there would be any tactics that he hasn't mastered and making contact with an opponent in mid solo cycle is just as important for a forward given that he may not be as strong/heavy as a hoofing defender.
Still, 'when man plans God laughs' so I think we'll place our trust in Fitzy & Co and they will do what's best on a given day.
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