seamo
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Posts: 2,016
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Post by seamo on Apr 7, 2015 19:08:44 GMT
I'd give Pat the U21 job...only if it meant him retiring from TV and the Newspapers!!! The U21 job should go to a guy who wants it and has earned the right to get it, ie. Someone from within the county who has had success at at least senior club level. Why senior club level? Do you mean Senior County Championship? Eamon Fitz has never managed a senior club in Kerry yet he got the Kerry job. Had Jack managed any senior clubs? Pat Driscoll and Stephen Stack stick out for me for the 21s job. if the co board push Jack up to the 21s then give one of the two lads mentioned the minors. I said at least senior club level. I could have just said senior club level! lol Jack had experience as a senior selector, schools at a high level etc. Yeah Eamon had piss all experience but did pretty well for himself last year, but he's the exception rather than the norm. Steven Stack did a great job this year. I've lost count of the no. of AI club title O Driscoll has brought to Kerry! We have dominated Junior and Intermediate club AI's for the past ~8 years and dominated Munster at senior level. Our club game is good enough to be able to provide a manager for our u21's rather than turning to big name former players. So by senior club level I simply meant that we have enough managers in the county who have had success with our clubs leading them to Munster and AI glory, winning a Kerry U21 title and ranting and raving on RTE doesn't measure up to that!
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 7, 2015 20:19:32 GMT
definition of "at least"
not less than; at the minimum.
synonyms: at the minimum, no less than, not less than; More as a conservative estimate, at rock-bottom;
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 7, 2015 22:14:18 GMT
Why senior club level? Do you mean Senior County Championship? Eamon Fitz has never managed a senior club in Kerry yet he got the Kerry job. Had Jack managed any senior clubs? Pat Driscoll and Stephen Stack stick out for me for the 21s job. if the co board push Jack up to the 21s then give one of the two lads mentioned the minors. I said at least senior club level. I could have just said senior club level! lol Jack had experience as a senior selector, schools at a high level etc. Yeah Eamon had piss all experience but did pretty well for himself last year, but he's the exception rather than the norm. Steven Stack did a great job this year. I've lost count of the no. of AI club title O Driscoll has brought to Kerry! We have dominated Junior and Intermediate club AI's for the past ~8 years and dominated Munster at senior level. Our club game is good enough to be able to provide a manager for our u21's rather than turning to big name former players. So by senior club level I simply meant that we have enough managers in the county who have had success with our clubs leading them to Munster and AI glory, winning a Kerry U21 title and ranting and raving on RTE doesn't measure up to that! Eamonn had a world of experience gained at schools level.
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keane
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Post by keane on Apr 9, 2015 14:20:26 GMT
The likes of Driscoll, Stack etc are the sort we should be looking at as well IMO.
If it was next year I would be thinking Stephen Wallace would be ideal to get a crack at the minors after his stints with Ardfert and the Kerry Juniors with Jack moving up to U21.
We're probably a year early for that to happen at the moment, no real reason why Jack couldn't take both on is there? Might actually make sense to have a trustworthy hand guiding player development over something like 16s, minors and 21s in fact.
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Post by beaumane on Apr 9, 2015 19:53:25 GMT
Tipp are under 21 munster champions by a point late goal by cork made for a nervy finish
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Apr 10, 2015 8:49:48 GMT
Pretty damming on our part
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Post by glengael on Apr 10, 2015 9:15:24 GMT
Premier County claim Munster glory as Cork’s five-in-a-row bid falls just short
Friday, April 10, 2015 By Eoghan Cormican
TIPPERARY 1-15 CORK 3-8: Another giant step forward in the development of Tipperary football as Tommy Toomey’s young charges foiling Cork’s five-in-a-row bid to secure the county’s second Munster U21 title.
Tipperary, having fallen to Cork in the last two provincial deciders, exacted sweet revenge on their home turf to add to their maiden title secured back in 2010. Throw in the two Munster minor crowns and All-Ireland breakthrough win achieved since 2011 and it can’t be denied that the monopoly of the traditional powerhouses is slowly being eroded.
For the eight survivors of the defeated 2014 outfit, last night represented glorious redemption. For Ian Fahey, Steven O’Brien, Bill Maher and Jason Lonergan — all four involved in the 2012 final defeat as well — the tears of joy at the final whistle said it all.
The home outfit, through Ian Fahey’s goal on 45 minutes, moved themselves into the box seat, but were forced to withstand a barrage of late pressure from the Rebels.
Cian Dorgan’s introduction and the redeployment of Brian O’Driscoll breathed new life into the Cork forward unit and it was these two players who delivered the 1-1, Dorgan scrambling home the goal, to cut Tipperary’s advantage to the minimum entering injury-time.
Cork poured forward in search of an equaliser and while Dorgan had the courage to shoot, his effort tailed to the left and wide.
There would be no repeat of the 2009 final when Noel Galvin registered a last-ditch goal to break Tipperary hearts. The final whistle sound thereafter. Redemption, relief and unbridled joy for Tipperary.
In truth, extra-time would have rough justice on Tommy Toomey’s side.
The questions were many for the Premier outfit in the wake of Peter Kelleher’s goal strike 15 seconds upon the change of ends. The score edged Cork 2-4 to 0-8 in front and one wondered had Tipperary the necessary guile and grunt to respond. The winners, led by Ian Fahey, Colin O’Riordan and Steven O’Brien, issued a near-deafening response.
A surging run from Bill Maher allowed Kevin O’Halloran slot his second free.
And when the Portroe forward again converted from the placed ball, stalemate had been achieved.
Vaughan and O’Halloran traded efforts in the ensuing passages of play and then arrived the key score of this tentative decider, watch by a paltry attendance of 2,137.
Liam Casey’s delivery was broken down by Paul Maher, Jamie Davis failed to clear, and Ian Fahey burst onto possession to drive the ball through the legs of ‘keeper Michael Martin.
A second Tipperary goal almost materialised when O’Halloran put through Josh Keane, but the full-forward riffled his effort of the crossbar.
Colin O’Riordan added two white flags to carve out a four-point lead and Tipperary would not be caught, despite the entire kitchen been thrown in their direction by Cork at the finish.
The underdogs settled into proceedings far quicker by comparison to a nervous and error-prone Cork outfit. The Rebels would hit five first-half wides, several more dropped short and manager Sean Hayes must have been fraught with frustration at the amount of times his charges were turned over close to the Tipperary goal.
Jason Lonergan, Kevin O’Halloran (free) and Paul Maher swept the winners into an early lead and although Darragh Murphy kicked Cork’s opening score on 12 minutes, momentum rested with Tipp.
O’Brien and O’Riordan, as expected, enjoyed the upper hand in the midfield sector. Ian Fahey had Cork centre-back Sean White in all sorts of bother, while Kevin O’Halloran and Paul Maher were proving difficult to tie down inside.
Tipperary’s fifth point from Steven O’Brien was indicative of their high-octane approach — Sean White, under pressure from Fahey, over-carrying possession coming out of defence. By 19 minutes, Tipperary were 0-7 to 0-1 clear.
Peter Kelleher’s goal on the stroke of half-time reduced the margin to the minimum and while the lead fell into their hands early in the second-half, they were unable to hold the inside lane.
Scorers for Tipperary:
K O’Halloran (0-7, 0-5 frees); I Fahey (1-0); C O’Riordan, J Keane (0-1 free), J Lonergan (0-2 each); S O’Brien, P Maher (0-1 each).
Scorers for Cork:
P Kelleher (2-0); C Vaughan (0-4, 0-2 frees); C Dorgan (1-1); B O’Driscoll (0-1 free), D Murphy, S O’Donoghue (0-1 each).
Cork:
M Martin (Nemo Rangers); J Davis (Douglas), T O’Rourke (Carbery Rangers), S Cronin (Nemo Rangers); B O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCarthaigh), S White (Clonakilty), C Kiely (Ballincollig); A O’Donovan (Nemo Rangers), S O’Leary (Bantry); S O’Donoghue (Inniscarra), C McIntyre (Carrigaline), D Murphy (Valley Rovers); C Vaughan (Ivyleary), P Kelleher (Kilmichael), C Horgan (Nemo Rangers).
Subs:
K Davis (O’Donovan Rossa) for Horgan (HT), C Dorgan (Ballincollig) for McIntyre (39 mins), D Quinn (St Finbarr’s) for O’Donovan (48), M Desmond (Cill N Martra) for O’Donoghue (54), M McSweeney (Newcestown) for Kiely (57), C Hyde (Naomh Abán) for White (59)
Tipperary:
E Comerford (Kilsheelan Kilcash); K Fahey (Commercials), J Feehan (Killenaule), C O’Shaughnessy (Ardfinnan); R Mulcahy (Moyle Rovers), L Boland (Moyle Rovers), B Maher (Kilsheelan Kilcash); S O’Brien (Ballina), C O’Riordan (JK Brackens); J Lonergan (Commercials), I Fahey (Commercials), L Casey (Cahir); K O’Halloran (Portroe), J Keane (Golden Kilfeacle), P Maher (Kilsheelan Kilcash).
Subs:
TJ Ryan (Rockwell Rovers) for Keane (56), W Connors (Kildangan) for Boland (59).
Referee:
S Joy Kerry (Kerry).
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Post by veteran on Apr 18, 2015 19:38:13 GMT
Donegalman was on the ball when he marked our cards after the Ulster Final with respect to the Tyrone u21's. They look to be a team of the first rank with a liberal sprinkling of superb footballers, notably the full back, left corner back, both midfielders and right corner forward. There were others who were not far behind those boyos. It was a particular pleasure to witness the positive,abrasive play of the full back who indeed is no giant.
They play according to the Tyrone patent. Work, work, run , run. Executed by extremely talented players. I suspect Tyrone will not be too long in the doldrums. Ironically the elevation of these lads to senior status may herald the end for Mickey Harte in that it maybe the likes of Brian Dooher and Peter Canavan who will be their conductors. Those two boys know a thing or two about the Tyrone brand. What do you think Dermot?
One must hand it to Tipperary. That was an amazing victory. It looked for a good while that it was only a matter of time before Dublin would submerge them. It was not to be and they were worthy winners. Those two boys at centre field -Colin O'Riordan and Stephen O'Brien- would match most senior inter county pairings. I remember their wing back-Bill Maher- being invincible as a minor in Austin Stack Park a couple of years ago. It will be a shame if some of these lads declare for the hurlers exclusively.
Dublin had some fine players too, Stephen Carthy, Cormac Costello and Conor McHugh, the latter especially in the first half.
There was some terrific fielding by the midfielders and full marks to the referee as he generally gave the advantage to the man who plucked it from the air rather than to the swarm who surrounded him on descent.
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Post by Mickmack on Apr 18, 2015 23:23:33 GMT
2012 Tipperary 2–14 (20) Kerry 1–14 (17) Gaelic Grounds Dylan Fitzelle 2013 Kerry 0–15 (15) Tipperary 0–10 (10) Fitzgerald Stadium Kevin Shanahan 2014 Kerry 2-17 (23) Cork 2-13 (19) Páirc Uí Chaoimh Liam Kearney Looking back at the last few years at minor, Kerry should be capable of ending Corks domination at u21. How are things in Tipp at this level now.
Kerry play on 18th March with the Munster final in early April Tipp answered that question today. Some fantastic score taking. Kickouts by the Dub keeper were poor. Dessie unlikely to replace Gavin when he retires!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Apr 19, 2015 12:21:07 GMT
Fair play to Tipp, thoroughly deserved. That crop of players has certainly been a thorn in the side of our crop since 3 or 4 years ago! Dessie Farrell has big questions to answer about tactics and preparation etc. Some big reputations of upcoming players found out to some extent too. Anyway I'd like to see us have more success at minor level.
That Tyrone team will really be one to watch. Would be great to see Tipp become competitive at senior level in Munster but I fear the hurling will prevent it.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 20, 2015 8:00:29 GMT
Pretty damming on our part Good point.
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Post by Mickmack on May 2, 2015 23:03:18 GMT
By Daragh Small at Parnell Park
Tyrone 1-11 Tipperary 0-13
Tyrone claimed the Eirgrid All-Ireland U-21 Football Championship title for the first time since 2001 as they beat Tipperary 1-11 to 0-13 at Parnell Park.
This year’s Ulster champions had not reached an All-Ireland decider in 12 years but Cathal McShane starred as they won after a pulsating finish.
The Red Hands trailed 0-07 to 0-05 at half-time and the game was delayed for a medical incident in the stand before Tyrone fought back after the break – McShane struck their goal in the 47th minute.
Tipperary had their chances and had the ball in the net as the clock ticked into injury-time but Ian Fahey’s goal was disallowed before Michael Cassidy was sent off for the victors.
Tipperary led at the interval despite playing against the breeze in an opening half where a wasteful Tyrone hit ten wides.
Kevin O’Halloran put Tipperary into a second-minute lead and Ian Fahey doubled that with a good point. Mark Bradley shot Tyrone’s first score in the seventh minute but it was evident the forwards weren’t clicking.
Cassidy came from corner-back to kick a good point soon after, but Bill Maher hit back for the Munster champions, who had dispatched reigning champions Dublin at the semi-final stage.
O’Halloran added another, his third of the game as the Premier County pulled three clear but Daniel McNulty’s free left it at 0-07 to 0-05 at half-time.
The start of the second-half was delayed when two members of the crowd needed medical assistance and Tyrone responded better to the lengthy interval break.
Two Lee Brennan frees and a point from Mark Kavanagh drew them level at 0-08 to 0-08 after 40 minutes.
But their ill-discipline cost them and with O’Halloran lethal from the placed ball, he kicked Tipperary two points ahead.
McNulty slotted his second of the day to reduce the deficit before McShane produced a piece of magic for the crucial, solitary goal of the game.
Kavanagh blitzed the Tipperary defence and sent McShane in on goal. He kept his nerve to hammer to the net past goalkeeper Evan Comerford.
O’Halloran replied with his seventh point but McNulty was also on target and Tyrone led 1-10 to 0-11 with seven minutes remaining.
A couple of crucial misses from O’Halloran followed as Tipperary's chances mounted and Kavanagh kicked Tyrone into a seemingly unassailable lead with a fine score from the left.
Tipperary captain Colin O’Riordan shot two majestic efforts as time petered out but, despite Cassidy’s sending off for an off-the-ball incident, they couldn’t capitalise and Tyrone held on for victory.
Tyrone: S Fox; R Mullan, P Hampsey, M Cassidy (0-01); C McLaughlin, R Brennan, K McGeary (capt); F Burns, C McShane (1-00); C Meyler (0-01), M Kavanagh (0-02), M Walsh; L Brennan (0-02, 0-02f), D McNulty (0-03, 0-03f), M Bradley (0-02)
Subs: R McGlone for Walsh (half-time), Ruairi Kelly for McShane (59), Peter McKenna for Brennan (71)
Tipperary: E Comerford; K Fahey, J Feehan, C O’Shaughnessy; R Mulcahy, L Boland, B Maher (0-01); S O’Brien, C O’Riordan (capt) (0-02, 0-01f); J Lonergan, I Fahey (0-01), L Casey; K O’Halloran (0-07, 0-06f), J Keane (0-02), P Maher
Sub: John McGrath for P Maher (53)
Referee: Fergal Kelly (Longford)
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Post by Mickmack on May 2, 2015 23:04:19 GMT
Tipp had the chances to win. The Tyrone goal was the key.
Tipp had a goal disallowed in injury time. Debateable decision.
In the final play, he sent off a Tyrone man for a black card offence and didn't give a free in!
Two people got heart attacks at half time. Sadly, one man died sadly. A Tipp man I believe.
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Post by southward on May 3, 2015 8:21:45 GMT
Tipp had the chances to win. The Tyrone goal was the key. Tipp had a goal disallowed in injury time. Debateable decision. In the final play, he sent off a Tyrone man for a black card offence and didn't give a free in! Two people got heart attacks at half time. Sadly, one man died sadly. A Tipp man I believe. Unless he gave an advantage, how is it possible to come up with a decision like that?
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tpo
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Post by tpo on May 3, 2015 14:33:46 GMT
The Ref should have cancelled the free out to Tyrone and had a hop ball. Its possible Tyrone would have won the hop ball and the same result would have resulted
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
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Post by fivenarow on May 3, 2015 15:16:21 GMT
Kerry seemingly beat that tipp team in the Hastings cup shield final, from what I'm told they were only missing one or two of the team ?? I think tipp were pulling a fast one there as we wouldn't have been within 5 pts of either team last night. & that would be us having a good night.
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Post by Mickmack on May 3, 2015 20:17:23 GMT
To those of you who saw this live on TV... if you were the ref would you have disallowed that Tipp goal. Without the benefit of playback I think I would have.
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falveyb2k
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"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
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Post by falveyb2k on May 3, 2015 21:38:03 GMT
I was puzzled when I saw it disallowed and even more so after the replay(the umpires should be the key men here, if there is any potential foul in the square surely they're best placed to see it and notify the referee), to top it off how Tyrone got a free out after having a man sent off is mind boggling. Tipp were very hard done by last night and the game should at the very least have gone to a replay
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Post by homerj on May 4, 2015 8:28:29 GMT
Kerry seemingly beat that tipp team in the Hastings cup shield final, from what I'm told they were only missing one or two of the team ?? I think tipp were pulling a fast one there as we wouldn't have been within 5 pts of either team last night. & that would be us having a good night. 5 points??? With Our management team , we'd have been lucky to get within 15.
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Post by kerrygold on May 4, 2015 8:52:15 GMT
Tipperary aggrieved after Cathal McShane edges it for streetwise Tyrone Tyrone manager Fergal Logan refused entry to rival dressing room after gripping decider
Mon, May 4 The Irish Times, Gavin Cummiskey
Cathal McShane’s 49th minute goal is ultimately what separated these counties in a gripping All-Ireland under-21 football final. It’s Tyrone’s first national title at this grade since 2001. That group ended up populating Mickey Harte’s senior panel as a golden era flowed. Maybe it’s brewing again. Unfortunately, Tyrone’s success is once again coupled with criticism of their on-field demeanour. In the ugly aftermath, both managers sought to avoid a war of words but the vast philosophical gulf in their approach to Gaelic football was all too evident.
“Maybe we need to get a small bit more cynical,” said Tipperary manager Tommy Toomey. “There’s a lot of stuff going on in these games and Tipperary have to learn and I think we will.” Do you think Tyrone were cynical? “Look, it’s just part of the game at the moment. Tackling off the ball, the rules are there to tidy this up. If they are not working, what can you do?” Whilst Toomey was speaking, Tyrone manager Fergal Logan was blocked, by Tipperary officials, from entering the losing dressing room to offer his commiserations. A fuming Logan requested a moment to calm down. “We went out to play the game in the right manner,” an unaware Toomey continued. “Tyrone went out to play the game their way. I’m afraid Tyrone beat us tonight and are deserved champions, they are leading on the scoreboard at the end of the game, that’s it.” The repetitive fouling of Tipp’s brilliant midfielder Colin O’Riordan is mentioned. “That’s what I’m talking about,” Toomey continued. “We know how they play the game, how they play against referees and that’s how they win. “We knew what we were coming into. We had the boys well versed what to expect verbally. I give great credit to Tyrone for the way they play football. I don’t think they should be going at that stuff. I think they are better at playing football. That was a very good game, if you take all those bits and pieces out of it.” Celebrating tribe Logan had returned to the fringes of his celebrating tribe. “A heartbreaking finish for Tipperary, I understand that heart break,” he said, immediately remembering the 1995 All-Ireland final defeat to Dublin. “I’ve spoken to a couple of their officials there and was not allowed in their dressing room. I think it’s gone a bit extreme. It’s pretty raw at the moment but I hope relations between Tipperary and Tyrone football don’t get to that pitch where we have guys putting people out of dressing rooms. “But I can promise you this: I’ve told our men never to sledge or talk to people, not to conduct themselves cynically. “There were boys buying frees on both teams. I’m just disappointed that would happen there in the GAA world. “I don’t want to make a major fuss,” Logan stressed. “I thought it was a sporting game of football but maybe not, maybe others see it different.” There have been far worse matches. And anyway, there are far more important things in life. The second half was delayed by 40 minutes due to two medical emergencies in the main stand. One resulted in the fatality of a Tipperary supporter after a cardiac arrest. At that juncture a wasteful Tyrone, with 10 wides despite the wind advantage, trailed 0-7 to 0-5. Tipperary will be disappointed to only hold a two-point lead thanks to 0-3 off Kevin O’Halloran’s left boot, alongside scores from Josh Keane, big Ian Fahey and Bill Maher. But the best footballer on show was O’Riordan. It didn’t result in a score, but he made the strongest statement of the opening half hour when towering over McShane to take man and ball in revenge for an earlier hit. McShane had previously felled him with a ferocious, slightly mistimed, shoulder. Longford referee Fergal Kelly also noted Keane’s name for a slap. Both were deserved yellow cards but Steven O’Brien’s trip and stamp on McShane surprisingly escaped sanction. Livelier Tyrone started the second half livelier only for Ruairí McGlone to slide a goal chance wide of Evan Comerford’s far post. Still, two Lee Brennan frees and a Mark Kavanagh strike levelled matters. O’Halloran instantly responded by stroking a long-range effort off the greasy surface. He cupped his ear to a Tyrone player as the ball sailed between the posts. Next, Keane’s third score made it 0-10 to 0-8. It seemed like Tipperary’s time. “They probably thought at half time there was no way they would be beaten,” went Logan. “We thought that would be to our advantage because they would see the winning line and then begin to think about it. Whereas we went for broke.” O’Halloran’s left foot threatened to dominate proceedings until he started firing duds; a 50-metre curling effort bounced off the crossbar. Another three frees drifted wide. Then came the goal. McShane would have known the consequences of mining so deep into enemy territory but his heroics were rewarded. Daniel McNulty’s accuracy from the placed ball kept Tyrone ahead. As the seconds ticked down, McShane, with O’Riordan in his wake, shipped another heavy blow from Kevin Fahey but not before gifting Kavanagh a sight of the posts. That gave Tyrone a three-point cushion. Battered and bruised, McShane finally departed. O’Riordan almost stole back the trophy, first with a huge point as four minutes of injury time were signalled. Then he landed an unbelievable free from the right sideline. Unstoppable now, the Tipp midfielder was on to the kick out, sending another ball into the square. Goalkeeper Sean Fox was fouled as Tyrone survived. Just. At the end Michael Cassidy walked for a second yellow card but Tipperary couldn’t scale the white wall.
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Post by kerrygold on May 4, 2015 8:55:46 GMT
The Ref should have cancelled the free out to Tyrone and had a hop ball. Its possible Tyrone would have won the hop ball and the same result would have resulted Strange ending to the game all right. Regarding the disallowed Tipp goal I thought the Tipp forward had both feet off the ground when he made contact with the keeper and the ref probably got that call right.
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Post by ballynamona on May 4, 2015 10:47:58 GMT
The Ref should have cancelled the free out to Tyrone and had a hop ball. Its possible Tyrone would have won the hop ball and the same result would have resulted Strange ending to the game all right. Regarding the disallowed Tipp goal I thought the Tipp forward had both feet off the ground when he made contact with the keeper and the ref probably got that call right. Have to agree with that in this case, but in general keepers get too much protection.
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Post by kerrygold on May 5, 2015 8:22:23 GMT
Tipp stand by exclusion of Logan from dressing-room after U-21 final Colm Keys
PUBLISHED 05/05/2015 Tyrone U-21s manager Feargal Logan was not allowed access to the Tipperary dressing room in the aftermath of Saturday night’s All-Ireland final Tipperary are standing by their decision not to permit Tyrone U-21 football manager Feargal Logan access to their dressing-room to address their players in the aftermath of Saturday night's All-Ireland final.
Tipperary Football Board chairman Joe Hannigan defended the move against Logan who has expressed disappointment that a long-standing tradition could not be honoured. Hannigan said there is "no need" to make contact with Logan and, as far as he and his board are concerned, the matter is over. "As far as we were concerned, our manager Tommy Toomey waited for Feargal Logan on the side of the pitch to have a word with him,"said Hannigan. "He shook his hand, congratulated him, wished him well. Tommy did his part. We didn't want a situation where something might be said. It would have done no good for him to come in 20 minutes or half-an-hour after the game." Hannigan and Toomey have been quite vocal about what they feel were Tyrone's cynical tactics in trying to 'kill' the game in the last 10 minutes. grated Hannigan accepted Tipperary could be just as culpable for the number of fouls committed as Tipperary but stressed it was more what went on off the ball which grated. He pointed to the introduction of a late substitution that left them with 16 men on the field for a very brief period before the fourth official drew attention to it and the presence of Tyrone selector Brian Dooher on the field in his capacity as their 'runner'. "Brian Dooher was almost going to contest the kick-out with one of our wing-backs at one stage," he said. He said they never expected the level of what they claim was cynicism and 'sledging' that they came up against in that closing period. "We were aware of it, we knew what we were coming up against but we didn't think to the extent of what it was. We were playing Munster football up along and the boys were only playing minor and it's a lot more innocent. We understand that now." Logan and selector Peter Canavan are adamant that they never coached a cynical act. Logan stressed that he abhorred any incident of 'sledging'. Hannigan expressed disappointment with the officials for not acting on a number of instances of verbal engagement in the second half. "Maybe the linesman on the stand side (Cormac Reilly) didn't see it. But everyone else saw it." Hannigan said they spoke out after the game because they felt there is a "responsibility" to football to highlight these issues. Irish Independent
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Post by kerrygold on May 5, 2015 8:23:41 GMT
Cynicism not Tyrone tactic, says Peter Canavan Tuesday, May 05, 2015By Eoghan Cormican Tyrone legend Peter Canavan has expressed disappointment at the accusations of the Tipperary U21 football camp that the Ulster men adopted a cynical approach during Saturday’s All-Ireland decider.
Tipperary officials refused Tyrone boss Feargal Logan access to the losing dressing room after the contest, such was their outrage at the off-the-ball behaviour of the Tyrone footballers.
Tipperary manager Tommy Toomey said his players “went out to play the game in the right vein”, whereas Tyrone “went out to play their way”.
Toomey added further fuel to the fire by pouring scorn on the treatment of captain Colin O’Riordan: “They know how to do it, that’s how they win matches.”
Tyrone U21 selector Canavan rejected the allegations of the Tipperary officials and management, stressing the All-Ireland champions were never instructed to act in a cynical manner.
“I would be very disappointed with [accusations of cynical play] because you ask any of those players in there have they been coached in cynical play this year, they will give you a very honest answer. I would be very disappointed if that was labelled at this team because that’s not what they’re coached and if there was cynical play, it was towards the end of the game when there’s a team hanging on to a slender lead and it was instinct that may have took over in some cases.
“But I’ll make it clear and I’m sure Fergal did, I have trained the team and there has been no cynical play involved in our training sessions and those fellas will back that up.”
Tipperary football board chairman Joe Hannigan has said county officials acted in the heat of the moment when turning away Fergal Logan from their dressing room door and Canavan believes accusations of cynical play could similarly be linked to “high emotions”.
“We could all look back at different incidents that happened in that game. It could happen in any competitive game when there is so much at stake. When they look back and reflect on [their accusations], they will say that’s not the case. We didn’t get here today playing cynical football. The long delay at half-time gave us more time to reflect on the first half and get our heads right for the second half. And what it also did was maybe it gave Tipperary a chance to think of how close they were to an All-Ireland. And if anything, we would like to have thought ‘this could work to our advantage.’”
Canavan, who captained Tyrone to back-to-back All-Ireland U21 titles in 1991 and 1992, insists Saturday’s win will have a knock-on effect ahead of the senior’s Ulster SFC opener against Donegal on Sunday, May 17
“There is a big step up from U21 to senior level. So what it does show is there is a lot of heart and determination and there is a group of young men who are prepared to do anything for the Tyrone jersey and that’s very pleasing.
“Ii’s good to know that we have men there who have what it takes to win All-Ireland titles. That will stand them in good stead in future years.
“The other point is, I was speaking to a number of the senior players out on the pitch afterwards and I have no doubt that this win will serve as a fillip to them and give them a bit of encouragement going into Ballybofey (against Donegal), where everybody is writing them off and they have no chance of winning.”
However Tipperary selector Michael O’Loughlin believes that referee Fergal Kelly lost control of last Saturday’s decider in the closing minutes.
Tipp felt aggrieved at the death when Kelly sent off Tyrone’s Michael Cassidy for an incident that followed the awarding of a free to the Red Hands.
Instead of throwing in the ball, Kelly allowed the original free to stand and Tipp were left to agonise on a one-point defeat.
O’Loughlin insisted last night: “It should be a hop ball, simple as that. It’s just disappointing at the end that the official didn’t make the right decision.
“You could feel it on the line that the game was slipping away from the ref in the last 10-15 minutes. Twice there were 16 Tyrone players on the field and one of their officials had to run in at one stage to get a player off.
“But it was just a bad decision at the end and one that he will regret now and has to live with.”
O’Loughlin has insisted, however, that it’s time to move on from the controversial loss. O’Loughlin added that the death of a Tipperary supporter at the game brought a sense of perspective to the fallout.
“A man travelled to watch us playing in an All-Ireland final that was at all of our senior games on the supporters bus.
“We have a small band of people following us all over the country and our players and everybody in the dressing room were very saddened to hear that at the team function afterwards. I’d like to sympathise with the family. It’s only sport, at the end of the day.”
KEYWORDS: Tipperary, football, Tyrone, U21
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
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Jigz84
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Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on May 5, 2015 9:21:07 GMT
To those of you who saw this live on TV... if you were the ref would you have disallowed that Tipp goal. Without the benefit of playback I think I would have. The Tipp forward played the man, not the ball, you can't touch the keeper in the small square so free out was correct.
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Post by Dermot on May 5, 2015 15:11:58 GMT
Donegalman was on the ball when he marked our cards after the Ulster Final with respect to the Tyrone u21's. They look to be a team of the first rank with a liberal sprinkling of superb footballers, notably the full back, left corner back, both midfielders and right corner forward. There were others who were not far behind those boyos. It was a particular pleasure to witness the positive,abrasive play of the full back who indeed is no giant. They play according to the Tyrone patent. Work, work, run , run. Executed by extremely talented players. I suspect Tyrone will not be too long in the doldrums. Ironically the elevation of these lads to senior status may herald the end for Mickey Harte in that it maybe the likes of Brian Dooher and Peter Canavan who will be their conductors. Those two boys know a thing or two about the Tyrone brand. What do you think Dermot? Veteran, Yes I would imagine they will be, along with Fergal Logan who's the U21 Manager .. he brought the other 2 boys in to the setup.. Just not sure when it will happen.. Im a wee bit surprised at Tipp to be honest .. I honestly dont see where their criticism is coming from as the game was fairly clean although there were a few incidents from both sides but nothing that really stood out ... Possibly the hurt of losing was the catalyst for the comments but the fact they didnt let Logan into their changing rooms after the match is a bit OTT IMHO.. Both teams have some very good players and with any luck we will get a good few of those lads onto the senior team before too long.. I dont think we can afford not to.
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Jigz84
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Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on May 5, 2015 16:03:28 GMT
Congrats Dermot, great win, surprising it's been 14 years since the last U21 win but fierce competition in Ulster during that time.
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Post by Mickmack on May 5, 2015 19:05:00 GMT
To those of you who saw this live on TV... if you were the ref would you have disallowed that Tipp goal. Without the benefit of playback I think I would have. The Tipp forward played the man, not the ball, you can't touch the keeper in the small square so free out was correct. The rule is set out below. Once he gains possession he is fairly well protected it seems although you can flick the ball out of his possession presumably. That's hardly "charging". Can you give him a fair shoulder? When he is within the small rectangle, the goalkeeper may not be charged but he may be challenged for possession of the ball, and his kick or pass may be blocked. Incidental contact with the goalkeeper while playing the ball is permitted.
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Post by kerrygold on May 6, 2015 8:56:06 GMT
Martin Breheny: Why do refs ignore 'verbals' when the rules oblige them to clamp down? Trash talk cheap but not cheery
Logan has robustly rejected Tipperary claims regarding ‘sledging’ and cynical tactics in the game Whether or not Tipperary realise it, there's a danger that their reaction to the defeat by Tyrone in the All-Ireland U-21 football final will come across a whinge.
Worse still, it could be depicted as a hurling county discovering that different realities apply at the top levels in football. Innocents abroad and all that. It's an unfair portrayal. If Tipperary were unhappy with what they perceived as Tyrone's cynicism in Parnell Park last Saturday, they were perfectly entitled to lock their dressing-room doors and not entertain the "hard luck, ye're a fine team, keep at it," platitudes from the winners. As for Tipperary's football pedigree, they have won more All-Ireland senior titles than Tyrone, albeit in very different eras. They have also won a minor title more recently than Tyrone. Football has made impressive strides in Tipperary over recent years, but in the broader GAA world it's still seen essentially as a hurling county. Hence the suspicions that their complaints over the U-21 final will create an impression of newcomers who aren't fully acquainted with the harsh world of top-level football. Tyrone have robustly defended themselves, insisting that they did nothing wrong. "I can promise you this: I have told our men never to sledge or talk to people. I have told them not to conduct themselves cynically," said Tyrone manager Feargal Logan. "If you ask any of those players have they been coached in cynical play this year, they will give you an honest answer. I would be very disappointed if this team was labelled because that's not the way they're coached," said Peter Canavan, who is part of the management set-up. Tipperary manager, Tommy Toomey took a different view. "We knew what we were coming into. We had the boys well-versed about what to expect verbally and not to react. There's a lot of stuff often goes on in these games that Tipperary have to learn and I think we will over the period," he said. So there you have it. Tyrone, all delighted - understandably so - with themselves after winning an All-Ireland and Tipperary implying that there was an unsavoury dimension to the game. The actual controversy will pass quickly but the residue may linger longer. Or at least it should. This, after all, was an U-21 final, a grade which traditionally has had a higher purity level than senior. Yet, one of the All-Ireland finalists levelled serious accusations of cynicism and verbals against their opponents, who rejected them outright and resented any slur on their reputations. Let's leave both sides to defend their positions and look at the wider landscape, one which should concern the GAA authorities. The black-card offence was, among other reasons, introduced to eradicate cynical fouling, but has not achieved it, certainly to the degree anticipated. Why? Because referees continue to opt out. They warmly welcomed its introduction but, once in place, they did not apply it as the wording ordained. And as time passed, they diluted it further. Now, they use it very sparingly, blatantly ignoring offences which merit a black card. Either that, or they reclassify it as a yellow-card offence, which allows the perpetrator to play on. Provocative Worst of all, they totally ignore the section which makes a black card offence of the following: "To threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or team-mate." What could be more provocative than trash talk, where a player attempts to wind up an opponent by unloading verbals, the nastiness of which knows no bounds? Many will go unheard by the referee and his officials but are we to believe that their ears never pick up any? If so, then hearing tests should be made mandatory. Yet, when last did you see a player warned, let alone sent off, for verbals other than comments of a racist nature? It doesn't happen, despite the prevalence of the trash-talk culture. The GAA has rightly clamped down on racism, making it clear that it will not be tolerated. A similar approach to other verbals would be equally effective but, for some reason, is ignored. So too is the rule covering it. It raises the question: why have it in place if it's ignored? Irish Independent
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Post by kerrygold on May 6, 2015 8:59:09 GMT
GAA’s ‘Respect’ initiative improved by taking verbal abuse seriously Any mouthing picked up from one player to another should be met with a black card
Seán Moran.
Wed, May 6, 2015. So far the GAA’s ‘Respect’ initiative had a thin enough time of it since being launched more than five years ago. Intended to foster “a new approach of fair play, mutual respect and goodwill to Gaelic football and hurling across all grades,” its most conspicuous expression to date is the rather stilted group handshake before matches. It was certainly honoured more in the breach than in the observance at Parnell Park on Saturday evening. For a match that has caused quite a bit of controversy in the aftermath it wasn’t hugely remarkable on the field. Had Tipperary justifiable grievances about how the match was refereed? On review, not really. If anything they benefited from Fergal Kelly’s failure to spot the stamp on Cathal McShane by Steven O’Brien – or the trip before it – as early as the 10th minute. There were also a couple of black card incidents involving players from either side, which went unpunished. At the end there was a final talking point as to why a free out to Tyrone was allowed to stand after their corner back Michael Cassidy had been sent off for a second yellow card offence – as opposed to a hop ball and the cancelling of the free. Original incident Again on review, the referee’s decision looks correct. The yellow card was for an infraction committed after and separate to the award of the free. The ball wasn’t in play and the foul didn’t constitute retaliation for the original incident. Tipp however clearly did have grievances, which caused them to refuse access to their dressing-room to Tyrone manager Fergal Logan – a depressing update on how successfully the ‘Respect’ initiative is progressing. There was a good deal of lamenting of cynical play but aside from what Tyrone appeared content to overlook, as just the result of disappointment in the loss of a tight match, there was clearly an issue at stake. Passing references to verbal altercations and trash talking indicated the basis for the ill will. Although some of these altercations were reportedly visible from the stand, this sort of behaviour is not easy to pinpoint. Tyrone have a high-powered under-21 management. Manager Fergal Logan played in a senior All-Ireland final for the county and is a well-known solicitor in the GAA, having represented players at the DRA. His selectors Peter Canavan and Brian Dooher are All-Ireland winning captains. There’s no reason to doubt Canavan’s sincerity in rejecting the insinuation that the management schooled the players in cynical practices but verbal abuse is such a widespread problem in the game everywhere that it’s simply absorbed. Tyrone don’t have a totally innocent history in this regard. Former defender Ryan McMenamin has freely acknowledged his verbal exploits, while maintaining that he wasn’t unique in that respect even if he was particularly renowned. There was a striking image after the 2008 All-Ireland final against Kerry of Joe McMahon snarling in Tommy Walsh’s face during the match. But the issue at stake here though goes far beyond Tyrone. Verbal provocation of opponents is sufficiently widespread to have been specifically addressed by former GAA president Liam O’Neill in his 2013 annual address. Reportedly, iin recent years, it appears to have plunged to Stygian depths with research into opponents’ private lives being pursued better to fashion taunts and insults. Like any other form of misbehaviour in the GAA, it flourishes mainly because it’s tolerated and is deemed more advantageous than disadvantageous to the player indulging in it. How often do we see players who have verbally provoked opponents receiving the proper sanction – a black card? When I sympathised with one administrator about how hard it must be to detect this misbehaviour, he estimated that between 40 and 50 per cent of verbal provocation was detectable and just ignored by referees. With a new National Referees Committee settling into office, it would be a good idea to address this going into the championship. Any mouthing picked up from one player to another should be met with a black card. The miscreant can be left to sharpen his repartee on the bench. This also raises a ludicrous anomaly with the playing rules. As there is deemed to be no cynical behaviour in hurling and consequently no black card, you can slag off your hurling opponent in as scabrous a manner as would get you removed from the pitch in football – but at the bargain rate of a yellow card. The red card infraction of racist and sectarian abuse applies in both games, but the more common-or-garden, ‘your sister’s a hoor – I know’ type of talk attracts significantly different sanctions depending on whether you’ve a hurl in your hand or not. Respect could be very effectively promoted by taking verbal abuse seriously. As Liam O’Neill said over two years ago: “We all have a duty to eradicate it.”
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