Premier
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Post by Premier on Mar 23, 2015 22:50:34 GMT
I don't think anyone said that Spillane or OCinneide are on the same level as Jack. Jack stands alone in my book. He rescued us in 2004 and saw leadership in EF and brought him into his management team and this paved the way for EF to succeed him. We should now look to have another option when EF steps down. This management effort is something that's not sustainable for a young man on a long term basis. We cant be certain that Jack will want all of that again. If Dara OCinneide sees himself as a future Kerry manager (and I think he has the requisite skillset) then taking the U21s would be an ideal stepping stone. Of course, he may have no such ambitions. One of EFs greatest attributes is his lack of ego and his ability to let his players take the credit. That's leadership. Pat Spillane would be a polar opposite in my view and I cant even begin to contemplate him as a contender. I think the u21 job is too big to be a 'stepping stone' at this stage. He needs to prove his worth elsewhere before being given such a precarious job
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 24, 2015 20:21:17 GMT
I don't think anyone said that Spillane or OCinneide are on the same level as Jack. Jack stands alone in my book. He rescued us in 2004 and saw leadership in EF and brought him into his management team and this paved the way for EF to succeed him. We should now look to have another option when EF steps down. This management effort is something that's not sustainable for a young man on a long term basis. We cant be certain that Jack will want all of that again. If Dara OCinneide sees himself as a future Kerry manager (and I think he has the requisite skillset) then taking the U21s would be an ideal stepping stone. Of course, he may have no such ambitions. One of EFs greatest attributes is his lack of ego and his ability to let his players take the credit. That's leadership. Pat Spillane would be a polar opposite in my view and I cant even begin to contemplate him as a contender. I think the u21 job is too big to be a 'stepping stone' at this stage. He needs to prove his worth elsewhere before being given such a precarious job Can you thing of a better way for an aspiring Kerry manager to learn his trade?
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Post by ballynamona on Mar 24, 2015 20:50:37 GMT
For me has to be Stephen Stack or Pat O'Driscoll. Real achievements at a decent level. I don't think it's right to just take a punt on a guy with no managerial record.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Mar 24, 2015 20:51:59 GMT
I think the u21 job is too big to be a 'stepping stone' at this stage. He needs to prove his worth elsewhere before being given such a precarious job Can you thing of a better way for an aspiring Kerry manager to learn his trade? We could all have said that about Darragh too, turns out if you throw people in the deep end, it's rare enough that they swim I believe coaching at a school level or winning a county minor championship or even success at senior level would be a better way of going about things
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Post by stevieq on Mar 24, 2015 23:40:04 GMT
I don't think anyone said that Spillane or OCinneide are on the same level as Jack. Jack stands alone in my book. He rescued us in 2004 and saw leadership in EF and brought him into his management team and this paved the way for EF to succeed him. We should now look to have another option when EF steps down. This management effort is something that's not sustainable for a young man on a long term basis. We cant be certain that Jack will want all of that again. If Dara OCinneide sees himself as a future Kerry manager (and I think he has the requisite skillset) then taking the U21s would be an ideal stepping stone. Of course, he may have no such ambitions. One of EFs greatest attributes is his lack of ego and his ability to let his players take the credit. That's leadership. Pat Spillane would be a polar opposite in my view and I cant even begin to contemplate him as a contender. Just as a matter of interest do you think that JOC has these leadership qualities - ie lack of ego and ability to let his players take the credit?
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Post by dashboard on Mar 25, 2015 8:23:08 GMT
I don't think anyone could say jack has a lack of ego listen to his interview after the Win over mayo, but I would feel that he is still the right man for the job looking at it another way you could call it self belief
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 25, 2015 10:55:51 GMT
It is hard to see Cinnede getting involved in management as his work is in the media, in print and on the small screen.
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Post by A.N. Other on Mar 25, 2015 19:19:22 GMT
Sometimes having a sort of arrogance about you is a good thing. I think our teams are known for it as us as supporters also, "not arrogant just better" to coin a phrase. Jack is 100% the ideal candidate in my opinion. If someone can persuade me otherwise I'd genuinely like to hear it, although If Jack doesn't put himself forward for the position, I would like to see Pat O Driscoll get a crack at it. He has proven himself at club level at was unlucky the year the minors through away an 11 point lead to Tipp who went on to win the All Ireland. Not saying we would have won it, but who knows what would have happened.
Have any of our U21 lads been called into the Seniors? Or is it still just Conor Keane involved? Personally, I'd love to see Shane Ryan get a run inside there, think the injury cost him a chance in the league.
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Post by southward on Mar 25, 2015 19:31:39 GMT
Whatever about his other qualities, Spillane, rightly or wrongly, invites too much mockery and controversy for my liking. This can only serve as a distraction and draw unwanted attention on a young team.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Mar 25, 2015 19:55:14 GMT
Sometimes having a sort of arrogance about you is a good thing. I think our teams are known for it as us as supporters also, "not arrogant just better" to coin a phrase. Jack is 100% the ideal candidate in my opinion. If someone can persuade me otherwise I'd genuinely like to hear it, although If Jack doesn't put himself forward for the position, I would like to see Pat O Driscoll get a crack at it. He has proven himself at club level at was unlucky the year the minors through away an 11 point lead to Tipp who went on to win the All Ireland. Not saying we would have won it, but who knows what would have happened. Have any of our U21 lads been called into the Seniors? Or is it still just Conor Keane involved? Personally, I'd love to see Shane Ryan get a run inside there, think the injury cost him a chance in the league. I still believe the 2 goalies inside there and Shane Murphy are still ahead of him in an overall sense. We are always mad to rush the 'next big thing' into seniors because it's the exciting thing to do. Shane Ryan has to learn the value of floating accurate kick outs, which is where he is falling behind. While everyone is crediting Moran, Maher and Buckley for their fielding, the ball has been flighted in such a way that it is easy to catch and little credit has been given to Kealy in that sense
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Mar 25, 2015 22:23:15 GMT
From the evidence of last weeks game I believe no player could make a meaningful impact on the senior setup at the moment. In time I believe Shane Ryan, Brian Begley, Cormac Coffey, Barry O'Sullivan and Conor Keane have the potential to make an impact at some stage for Kerry at senior level. I was impressed with both corner backs, they showed great tenacity and maturity on the pitch , certainly more than you would expect from 18/19 year olds. Barry O'Sullivan to me looks a very good prospect but no need to be rushing a player of this mould when midfield is our strongest position at the moment. Conor Keane oozes class to be fair and it's only a matter of time before he plays for the seniors, certainly in next years national league I would imagine. I believe there was 1 player on the field who could make a telling contribution at the moment at senior level and that was Brian O Driscoll, he is simply a grown man with the pace and power of many top intercounty players in their peak.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Mar 25, 2015 22:50:11 GMT
From the evidence of last weeks game I believe no player could make a meaningful impact on the senior setup at the moment. In time I believe Shane Ryan, Brian Begley, Cormac Coffey, Barry O'Sullivan and Conor Keane have the potential to make an impact at some stage for Kerry at senior level. I was impressed with both corner backs, they showed great tenacity and maturity on the pitch , certainly more than you would expect from 18/19 year olds. Barry O'Sullivan to me looks a very good prospect but no need to be rushing a player of this mould when midfield is our strongest position at the moment. Conor Keane oozes class to be fair and it's only a matter of time before he plays for the seniors, certainly in next years national league I would imagine. I believe there was 1 player on the field who could make a telling contribution at the moment at senior level and that was Brian O Driscoll, he is simply a grown man with the pace and power of many top intercounty players in their peak. Am I the only one who doesn't see it in Cormac Coffey? I appreciate he is just out of minor but his kicking skills are beyond bad which isn't helped by having a horrendous technique and his willingness to take the ball into the tackle when it looks like he won't grow to me more than 5"9 is a recipe for disaster. I know some will point to the fact that Paul Murphy is small as well but I believe he has the head on his shoulders which will tell him when to do it or not
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Mar 25, 2015 23:19:38 GMT
I thought he had a very good game against cork and was one of the more solid performers which says a lot given it's his first year out of minor. Granted he is not brilliant on the ball but he's hardly awful either and although he has a lot to learn I think he's a very good prospect. Bags of speed, guts and determination. Not many defenders through the years have been very good ball players with a few exceptions, obviously Marc o se being the notable one. Look time will tell but I believe he has a future with Kerry at senior level.
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Post by shannonsider on Mar 26, 2015 15:50:33 GMT
I thought he had a very good game against cork and was one of the more solid performers which says a lot given it's his first year out of minor. Granted he is not brilliant on the ball but he's hardly awful either and although he has a lot to learn I think he's a very good prospect. Bags of speed, guts and determination. Not many defenders through the years have been very good ball players with a few exceptions, obviously Marc o se being the notable one. Look time will tell but I believe he has a future with Kerry at senior level. I have to say Hugh, I don't think he played well against Cork. He has plenty pace and power for his age, but needs a lot of work on the skills. That being said, considering it's his first year out of minor as you say and looking at where other 19 year olds have been at in terms of development at that age, I wouldn't rule out seeing him at a higher level. Hopefully the next 2 years at 21 level will see him improve and we'll take it from there then. In terms of the bigger picture, Conor Keane is developing nicely and slowly but surely will develop into an option at Senior level. Shane Ryan shouldn't have been started for the u21s IMO as he was well short of match practice and it showed on that night. He is a quality keeper however and again, will see how next 2 years at this level go. Gavin Crowley was good I thought. Not sure how he'd fare at higher level. Should play Junior this Summer though. Barry Dan has plenty talent and is also just out of minor. Again, one to watch. Next year and the year after are key years in terms of bringing through the All Ireland winning minors.
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Post by A.N. Other on Mar 26, 2015 16:53:42 GMT
Very harsh words of Coffey in my opinion. He may not have the ball skills of other players at present but that will come with time. He's quick and explosive also which cannot be thought. Bare in mind he's just over a month overage for the minors again this year.
If the kicking improves he could have a decent future at inter county level but it's hard to tell with any young fella. Since when does a fellas height become a concern though? A bit ridiculous if you ask me.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 26, 2015 17:44:29 GMT
Should play Junior this Summer though. Anyone know for sure if the plan for the juniors this year is the same as last year in terms of being a development squad. Anyone know if Stephen Wallace might be interested in the U21 job? He had the team last year playing a lovely brand of football and was probably unlucky in terms of meeting a strong Cavan side in the final.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 26, 2015 20:10:41 GMT
Wallace said on Terrace Talk he's in talks about taking the juniors on again this year. The plan is for it to be U23 again alright.
If I was making the decisions I'd be asking him to do that again and if he has another successful year with them you'd be looking to slot him in over the minors next year with the goal of promoting him to the U21s after that.
That's the sort of conveyor belt we ought to be trying to generate for managers to take care of our most important player incubating teams, not a guy who writes decent articles for the paper while not expressing any interest in the job or having zero (?) experience. Certainly not a guy who derides modern coaching practises as "paralysis by analysis" either, heavens above!
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Mar 26, 2015 20:36:27 GMT
Wallace said on Terrace Talk he's in talks about taking the juniors on again this year. The plan is for it to be U23 again alright. If I was making the decisions I'd be asking him to do that again and if he has another successful year with them you'd be looking to slot him in over the minors next year with the goal of promoting him to the U21s after that. That's the sort of conveyor belt we ought to be trying to generate for managers to take care of our most important player incubating teams, not a guy who writes decent articles for the paper while not expressing any interest in the job or having zero (?) experience. Certainly not a guy who derides modern coaching practises as "paralysis by analysis" either, heavens above! By the looks of it, 7 of the starting team are eligible for Juniors this year so they should get a good go. Always felt it is an enjoyable level of football to play at. The ground is hardening up and there isn't the worry that these lads will be flogged in training up there either. Also coming back to their clubs in great condition so great deal all round
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 26, 2015 22:35:02 GMT
Very harsh words of Coffey in my opinion. He may not have the ball skills of other players at present but that will come with time. He's quick and explosive also which cannot be thought. Bare in mind he's just over a month overage for the minors again this year. If the kicking improves he could have a decent future at inter county level but it's hard to tell with any young fella. Since when does a fellas height become a concern though? A bit ridiculous if you ask me. He's be some minor so in 2015 if was 30 or so days younger, some achievement to make the u21 team at such a young age.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Mar 27, 2015 0:35:32 GMT
I thought he had a very good game against cork and was one of the more solid performers which says a lot given it's his first year out of minor. Granted he is not brilliant on the ball but he's hardly awful either and although he has a lot to learn I think he's a very good prospect. Bags of speed, guts and determination. Not many defenders through the years have been very good ball players with a few exceptions, obviously Marc o se being the notable one. Look time will tell but I believe he has a future with Kerry at senior level. I have to say Hugh, I don't think he played well against Cork. He has plenty pace and power for his age, but needs a lot of work on the skills. That being said, considering it's his first year out of minor as you say and looking at where other 19 year olds have been at in terms of development at that age, I wouldn't rule out seeing him at a higher level. Hopefully the next 2 years at 21 level will see him improve and we'll take it from there then. In terms of the bigger picture, Conor Keane is developing nicely and slowly but surely will develop into an option at Senior level. Shane Ryan shouldn't have been started for the u21s IMO as he was well short of match practice and it showed on that night. He is a quality keeper however and again, will see how next 2 years at this level go. Gavin Crowley was good I thought. Not sure how he'd fare at higher level. Should play Junior this Summer though. Barry Dan has plenty talent and is also just out of minor. Again, one to watch. Next year and the year after are key years in terms of bringing through the All Ireland winning minors. Wow. I must have been watching a different game so because a large percentage of the possession cork had was aimed at coffeys man and time and time again he beat his man to the ball. He did give one or two sloppy passes but overall I would have him in the top 3performers on the night for Kerry. I do agree that the decision to play Shane Ryan was ill judged considering he hadn't played in months!
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 27, 2015 8:11:28 GMT
And all because Eamonn Fitzmaurice said Yes
Wednesday, December 03, 2014
By Tony Leen Sports Editor
WHAT would Kerry have done if Eamonn Fitzmaurice had said No?
It nearly happened. Kerry chairman Patrick O’Sullivan said he didn’t prepare a Plan B because he wasn’t taking no for an answer from his No. 1 target to take over from Jack O’Connor two years ago as Kerry football manager.
But Fitzmaurice sought copious counsel before concluding — despite his limited experience — there was no guarantee Kerry football would be a more appetising proposition three years down the road. Or that the opportunity would even be there.
Chances are O’Sullivan would have gone back to his brother-in-law, Pat O’Shea, to resume the reins — thus involving himself in protracted negotiations with O’Shea’s employers, the Munster Council, to job-share. From this remove, and remembering the eleventh-hour haggling that eventually brokered an arrangement for O’Shea to take the Kerry position in 2007, that was a pretty unpalatable prospect.
Kerry had lost an All-Ireland quarter-final to Donegal. No-one — and I stress no-one — was putting their hand up to reposition Kerry football for the future. If it wasn’t already a mess, it would’ve done fine until the mess arrived.
The chairman got lucky. Napoleon lucky. At a moment in time when Kerry football was on the brink of a recession the scale of which few realise even now, Fitzmaurice said Yes.
“Jack said he wasn’t continuing on a Saturday and we were in contact with Eamonn on the Monday morning. And we were in contact too with the people he was seeking counsel from to ensure they knew our determination to get him,” the chairman said this week.
It was a quantum leap for Fitzmaurice, only after one season as Under 21 coach with Kerry, when they failed to get past Cork.
“It’s his level of attention to detail that we knew was there — all the way back to his columns in the Examiner. It was right down to the minutest detail. It wasn’t just organising the sandwiches — it was the time they should be consumed.”
In that moment, a lot of things changed, but most importantly, everyone got time to breathe again. And strategise for the future. For too long, the relative success of the Kerry footballers masked the problems beneath the surface. It was time to take some tough decisions.
There was blood on the floor when the chairman brought a messy, if unavoidable, end to Mickey ‘Ned’ O’Sullivan’s time as Kerry minor football coach, facilitating the reintegration at that grade of Jack O’Connor. O’Sullivan must reflect now, from his position as the chairman who has delivered the county’s 37th football All-Ireland, on the slim line between Jones Road and the road to nowhere. It’s only last March Kerry diehards trudged out of Austin Stack Park after another comprehensive beating from Cork’s U21s. Fitzmaurice left that night with little in his notebook in the way of prospects to work on. But behind the scenes, the 2012 near-miss had rattled everyone in the county board.
“A lot of credit for the turnaround goes to Donal Daly, the development officer, who has been driving the player development programme and who helped bring about the results of a special working group involving Tony O’Keeffe, Pat O’Shea and Bomber Liston,” O’Sullivan reflected.
Kerry had some autumn luck for sure, but Fitzmaurice might feel he earned that in 2013.
At the beginning of December, Kerry are still racking up 2014 football titles — All-Ireland senior and minor, Munster Club senior, intermediate and possibly junior, if Brosna can eclipse Glin this weekend.
Of greater importance, though, is the managerial and coaching options that have surfaced with the rising tide. Jack O’Connor is back on board, and working through the schools network to bring a more uniform brand of football to the system. Stephen Wallace guided the Kerry juniors to an All-Ireland final and unearthed some unpolished gems in the process — the likes of St Mary’s Denis Daly, Seanie Moloney from John Mitchels and Templenoe’s Brian Crowley are all U 21 in 2015.
Alongside Pat O’Driscoll — who had an all-too-brief tenure as Kerry minor coach in 2011 — they have piloted a Division 3 club in Ardfert to a Kerry and Munster intermediate championship double this year. A stunning achievement.
But no more so that what Stephen Stack has done in reconditioning Austin Stacks and piloting them to their first county and provincial titles in two decades — bringing, like Fitzmaurice, a decidedly North Kerry pragmatism to the Tralee side.
Stack is ambitious and driven. In Feargal McNamara, Greg Horan and Shane O’Callaghan, the Rock have players with genuine inter-county ambitions, even if their February 14/15 All-Ireland semi-final against Slaughtneil might scupper Eamonn Fitzmaurice’s plans to give them some National League game-time. A conversation between Stack and Fitzmaurice may be needed to bring that one to a mutually satisfactory conclusion.
Darragh Ó Sé’s U21 project is the one blot on the copybook, but anyone who saw their defeat to Cork last March would accept his management team were limited enough in the scope of their options — with the possible exception of Castleisland’s Thomas Hickey. Then again, how many identified Paul Murphy from the U21 class of 2012?
Bringing Seamus Moynihan on board as a 21 selector — and using the strength and conditioning nous of Ciarán McCabe, involved with Austin Stacks this season — suggests better times lie ahead. A recognition that the U21 programme needs a work-over from the bottom up is implicit in Kerry’s involvement in the Hastings Cup in the New Year. O Sé and co are determined that the county’s depressing run in the grade cannot continue.
Fitzmaurice. Jack O’Connor. Stephen Stack. Darragh Ó Sé. Seamus Moynihan. Stephen Wallace. Pat O’Driscoll — and the likes of Dara Ó Cinnéide and Tomas Ó Sé not even on the first rung of the ladder yet.
Suddenly the sideline is sprinkled with spice.
It’s a good thing Fitzmaurice said Yes.
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 31, 2015 11:21:42 GMT
Interesting to see Dara named as one of the backroom team for the compromise rules under Joe Kernan.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 31, 2015 11:37:46 GMT
Interesting to see Dara named as one of the backroom team for the compromise rules under Joe Kernan. I'd imagine the interest level among players will be only fierce when there isn't a free trip to OZ going with it.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 31, 2015 12:30:31 GMT
Interesting to see Dara named as one of the backroom team for the compromise rules under Joe Kernan. He has done this arse-ways. Should have done his apprenticeship with an experienced coach before taking on the under 21 role and not vice-versa.
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pluto
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Post by pluto on Apr 4, 2015 22:47:05 GMT
Very disappointing once again. Darragh was and will always be regarded as one of the greatest players to wear the green and gold, but now can we just agree to get him to step away from management. After the sham that was last year,giving him another chance was deemed to be a fair assessment by some. Not by me, we are Kerry and what happened to us at home against Cork was not good enough. I was probably being harsh but after today I don't think so. The team selection was very puzzling. I know you had to blood some of last years minor panel as they are the future and have proven themselves as winners. However, going up to a fortress like Pairc Ui Rinn against a physically strong Cork side with 6 minors starting is just madness in my opinion. Aside from that, there was a clear lack of scoring forwards on our 24 for tonight. Playing with 2 men inside(both who I do consider scoring forwards) is fine as a plan but what happens if you need to change it? Our only other proven scorer was Savage who we lost early on to a black card. He was replaced by Greg Horan - very good footballer, not a scoring forward. Burns is an excellent prospect but I wouldn't say scoring is one of his best attributes. Crowley another very good player but again not exactly prolific. I'm not saying you need 6 but only having 3 on the 24 is just beyond comprehension for me. Kevin McCarthy on the bench is good but surely someone like Killian Spillane/Niall Sheehy or a handful of others would have been useful to have spring from the bench if we needed scores. My last point on this rant is the fact that unused substitute Gary O'Sullivan never got to grace the turf. So Billy Morgan has publicly stated his belief in Gary's ability, played him midfield for the Sigerson and Darragh sees fit not to play him. As has been stated previously on this forum topic, he's very strong so physicality isn't the issue. Eanna O'Connor comes on, someone behind Gary in the pecking order in UCC (from Darragh's club hmmmm), and Liam Carey who couldn't start on last year's minor team also comes on. Now Carey should have started last year for the minors and is a very good footballer but at this level at his age to be competing with fellas 3 years older than him and much stronger, it's mind boggling. I'm sure Cork's dominance at this grade will be stopped next year or the year after but for goodness sake give someone else a crack at managing this talented crop of players.
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pluto
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Post by pluto on Apr 4, 2015 22:53:33 GMT
Who exactly should Carey have replaced on last years all ireland Winning minor team?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 13:37:07 GMT
I suppose Brian Rayel if that's what you mean
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Post by beaumane on Apr 5, 2015 16:08:15 GMT
Liam Carey was probably kerrys top scorer from points from play for the amount of time played a serious injury prevented him from being involved with last year's minors until the munster final think it's irrelevant who he would of replaced jack picked the team and so did dara o'se there the ones who see these player's week in week out in training don't be using young fellas doing their best to have a cheap shot at dara
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Apr 6, 2015 14:10:14 GMT
I'd give Pat the U21 job...only if it meant him retiring from TV and the Newspapers!!!
The U21 job should go to a guy who wants it and has earned the right to get it, ie. Someone from within the county who has had success at at least senior club level.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Apr 6, 2015 22:20:59 GMT
I'd give Pat the U21 job...only if it meant him retiring from TV and the Newspapers!!! The U21 job should go to a guy who wants it and has earned the right to get it, ie. Someone from within the county who has had success at at least senior club level. Why senior club level? Do you mean Senior County Championship? Eamon Fitz has never managed a senior club in Kerry yet he got the Kerry job. Had Jack managed any senior clubs? Pat Driscoll and Stephen Stack stick out for me for the 21s job. if the co board push Jack up to the 21s then give one of the two lads mentioned the minors.
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