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Post by sidelined on Oct 9, 2014 13:22:43 GMT
draws for both football and hurling on tonight.
open draw again in football for munster while in ulster is it the reverse of last years draw. expect the annual whinging about system favouring cork/kerry in munster and mayo in the west. there will be about 2 months gone of the summer before any team will be knocked out in the quailifers. huge inbalance of standards in leinster that no one seems to comment on. if the weaker counties want change why dont they, because provincial councils wont allow it.
would the following ever happen; combine the league and championship by having 8 groups of 4 teams one out of every division based on league position[ div 1 team at home to div 2 team and div 3 team but away to div 4 team].
top two teams to quailify for allireland series champions league style.[ dead in the water already!] 3rd and 4 th teams have seperate competition. 14 weeks to complete both competions, games that finish level extra time.
provincial championships to be stand alone competitions.
scrap u21 competion and use second provincial competition [mcgrath cup mckenna etc] for third level and county u23 teams.
it will never happen, but maybe a start of an interesting debate.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 9, 2014 14:26:39 GMT
I don't want any wholesale change to championship structures.
The media in the pale have been watching too much soccer and are crowing for a league or "champions league". This is pants: the GAA is built on CHAMPIONSHIP. You don't get games like Kerry vs Mayo or the first AI Hurling Final without teams regularly engaging in do or die ties.
However, not talking about advantages or disadvantages here, but the provincial championships are undoubtedly unbalanced.
It is about time we had North, South, East and West provincial championships. You can call the Munster Council by The South Council or move some counties around --- it'll still be a provincial championship that can kick off the All Ireland Series.
No to open draw. No to league. No to anything that isn't "Championship" (notwithstanding the "back door"!!).
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keane
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Post by keane on Oct 9, 2014 14:32:58 GMT
UEFA are changing the seeding of the Champions League next year, presumably because the groups are so ball-achingly boring.
What the Championship needs - all it really needs in fact, is Clare and Tipp to keep up their progress, Galway to come back up the ladder, Roscommon to capitalise on good underage teams etc. We need to focus on the weaker teams who are trying their damnedest to compete and figure out a way to spur this on. More funding, more development staff etc.
Balancing the numbers in the four provincial championships would be ideal, but making better competitions of the ones we know and love is the best way to proceed.
Group stages can * right off.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 9, 2014 15:36:03 GMT
As far as I am aware, Munster is not seeded this year in so far as Kerry/Cork can now potentially meet in the semi finals, but not before this. (neither team are competing in the first round is this correct)? The pairings for the munster semis is an open draw.
There is a seeding system in situ in leinster. Not sure of the specifics of it but it will take something unbelievably freakish to stop Dublin in leinster.
Is home advantage first out of the drum, or is it alternated year by year in munster? It seems to mater a lot. (Cork have no hope in killarney while their record at home v kerry is pretty good). For instance, if kerry and cork are kept apart until the final in 2015, is it in killarney as it was in cork this year, and similarly, if they are drawn together in the munster semis, is it first out of the drum for home advantage or kerry's turn to be at home re corks's home advantage this year in the final?
Clare did very well this year, as did Tipp. Waterford and Limerick are very much in the doldrums and I cant see them getting a challenge going. I fancy Cork to get something going as they really didnt fire at all this year.
In ulster it is going to be the usual suspects, whatever that means. But I would expect home advantage in the first round of being secondary importance as opposed to form. Tyrone drew, won and lost in omagh this year in the championship. Down lost at home. Fermanagh lost at home v antrim. Monaghan lost at home in the ulster final. Derry lost at home in the first round.
Cant believe that it has come around so quickly, but it is the same every year, 3 weeks after the final the draw is done.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Oct 9, 2014 16:02:19 GMT
As far as I am aware, Munster is not seeded this year in so far as Kerry/Cork can now potentially meet in the semi finals, but not before this. (neither team are competing in the first round is this correct)? The pairings for the munster semis is an open draw. There is a seeding system in situ in leinster. Not sure of the specifics of it but it will take something unbelievably freakish to stop Dublin in leinster. Is home advantage first out of the drum, or is it alternated year by year in munster? It seems to mater a lot. (Cork have no hope in killarney while their record at home v kerry is pretty good). For instance, if kerry and cork are kept apart until the final in 2015, is it in killarney as it was in cork this year, and similarly, if they are drawn together in the munster semis, is it first out of the drum for home advantage or kerry's turn to be at home re corks's home advantage this year in the final? Clare did very well this year, as did Tipp. Waterford and Limerick are very much in the doldrums and I cant see them getting a challenge going. I fancy Cork to get something going as they really didnt fire at all this year. In ulster it is going to be the usual suspects, whatever that means. But I would expect home advantage in the first round of being secondary importance as opposed to form. Tyrone drew, won and lost in omagh this year in the championship. Down lost at home. Fermanagh lost at home v antrim. Monaghan lost at home in the ulster final. Derry lost at home in the first round. Cant believe that it has come around so quickly, but it is the same every year, 3 weeks after the final the draw is done. Kerry will have home advantage v Cork, whether they are drawn together in a Semi or meet in the Final. We will also have home advantage v Clare and Limerick if we draw them in the Semis. Away to Tipp and Waterford if drawn in Semis.
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Post by southward on Oct 9, 2014 17:23:00 GMT
donegalman,
Cork and Kerry have a long-standing championship home and away arrangement - every second game is in Killarney or Cork. This applies to relays also; ie if it's a draw in Killarney next year, the replay is in Cork and the following year's meeting (if there is one) is in Killarney again.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 9, 2014 18:31:32 GMT
So away to Tipp/waterford and then home to Cork is the likelihood.. Thats the way the draw has panned out.
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Post by dabomber on Oct 9, 2014 18:44:11 GMT
donegalman, Cork and Kerry have a long-standing championship home and away arrangement - every second game is in Killarney or Cork. This applies to relays also; ie if it's a draw in Killarney next year, the replay is in Cork and the following year's meeting (if there is one) is in Killarney again. Not next year I don't think because of the redevelopment of PUC, if a replay were to happen it would take place in killarney again I think
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 9, 2014 18:54:06 GMT
Yes, hilarious to way Munster is singled out as it it's a basket case. Leinster is muck for years.
I don't get why the draw needs to happen now. Would a round-robin for the 'Munster 4' help matters? You could scrap Div 2, 3 and 4 league finals to free up counties in those divisions to play in round robin arrangements in their provinces.
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Post by ballynamona on Oct 9, 2014 19:08:22 GMT
Ulster is very lop-sided. It's Munster v Ulster in the QF and SF next year. Kerry should be hot favourites to win Munster, that could mean a QF v Monaghan and an SF v Cork or maybe Tyrone. Just speculation of course for now.
In Connacht, the Rossies have a great chance next year, and the draw has been kind to them.
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Post by southward on Oct 9, 2014 19:20:20 GMT
Kerry v Waterford or Tipp in the semi. Potential banana skin for Cork if they end up with Clare in the other one.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 9, 2014 19:42:59 GMT
Breheny is going to get his cacks in a knot with all the back flipping and spinning he is going to do on his key board when he sees kerry's draw................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor *er.
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Post by Deise Exile on Oct 9, 2014 19:43:48 GMT
Tyrone gone wsy back and won't feature. If Micky Harte has Tyrone football in its best interests he'd walk now and leave peter canavan at it
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Post by Deise Exile on Oct 9, 2014 19:45:42 GMT
Breheny is going to get his cacks in a knot with all the back flipping and spinning he is going to do on his key board when he sees kerry's draw................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor *er. Why?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 19:56:24 GMT
Dublin Kerry Mayo or Cork . I can't see anyone outside those four . Armagh and Galway will be better they might cause a surprise on one of the big four . Tyrone need to bring in some youth the older guys are done . Kildare promise to come good every year but it never happens . Monaghan look good in Ulster but then fall apart . Down Derry Meath and Roscommon are too Inconsistent .
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 9, 2014 19:59:33 GMT
Breheny is going to get his cacks in a knot with all the back flipping and spinning he is going to do on his key board when he sees kerry's draw................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor *er. Why? Constant "hobbyhorse" of his, Kerry's draw and route through the championship. His article on the subject surfaces two-three times each year. Pity he wouldn't put as much energy into seeking 4 regional groups of eight from his platform in the media. Four provinces, six championships, five different systems Tonight's 2015 provincial draws will highlight the need for change
Martin Breheny
PUBLISHED 09/10/2014 Kerry and Cork are both seeded in Munster and cannot meet before the semi-final stage Kerry and Cork are both seeded in Munster and cannot meet before the semi-final stage The need to review the provincial championship formats will be highlighted in stark terms tonight when no fewer than five different restrictions will apply to the six draws across football and hurling. Only Ulster football and Munster hurling will operate a straight open draw. Leinster apply two gradings in hurling and one in football; Munster football will bestow privileged status on Cork and Kerry, while Connacht have already decided who will play New York and London in the first round. Despite the provincial championships being such an integral part of the All-Ireland series, each province is allowed to make its own arrangements without reference to Croke Park. The beneficiaries include Kilkenny hurlers, who won't enter a nine-county Leinster championship until the semi-final stage; Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Wexford, who receive byes to the football quarter-finals; and Cork and Kerry, who are guaranteed to be in the Munster football semi-final. Granting some counties later entry can give them an advantage if they are despatched into the All-Ireland qualifiers, where the access point is decided by the exit stage from the provincial championships. That was best illustrated in Munster this year where Cork and Kerry were seeded through to the semi-finals, where they were kept apart. It meant that one win over Division 4 opposition guaranteed them a place in the Munster final and, by extension, an All-Ireland quarter-final and Round 4 qualifier slot. Meanwhile, Tyrone or Down, who were drawn in the Ulster preliminary round, would have had to win three games in a much more competitive province to reach the final. Neither made it past the quarter-finals. Here's how the four provinces line up in advance of tonight's draw: LEINSTER SF Last 10 titles: Dublin 9, Meath 1. Draw format: This year's semi-finalists (Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wexford) will be seeded through to the quarter-finals, leaving Carlow, Wicklow, Longford, Offaly, Louth, Westmeath, Laois in the first-round draw. One of the latter seven will receive a bye to the quarter-finals. Having won nine of the last 10 Leinster titles, Dublin will probably start the 2015 campaign at even tighter odds than this year's 1/7. Dublin's dominance is a serious issue for Leinster. In an attempt to enliven the early stages, a change to a round-robin start for at least six counties is likely from 2016, but will it make any difference higher up the market? Dublin beat Laois, Wexford and Meath by a combined total of 43 points this year, reinforcing their control with oppressive authority. Dublin's sole defeat in Leinster since the start of the 2005 season came in 2010 when Meath beat them in the semi-final. Ulster SF Last 10 titles: Armagh 3, Donegal 3, Tyrone 3, Monaghan 1. Draw format: Open draw. The quartet listed above have shared all 16 titles, extending back to 1999, the year after Derry last won the title. Cavan were successful in 1997 while Down last took the title in 1994. That leaves Antrim and Fermanagh as the only counties not to have won the title in the last 20 years. However, both reached Ulster finals, with Fermanagh losing to Armagh in a replay in 2008 and Antrim failing to Tyrone in 2009. It's a decent overall spread, making Ulster a fully-functional championship, with a high level of competitiveness. Their open draw policy adds to the vibrancy of the competition, ensuring that all counties enter the draw on the same footing. There's no protection against being drawn in the preliminary round in successive years, as happened Donegal in 2011 and 2012 and Cavan in 2012 in 2013. Not that it bothered Donegal, as they won both titles. Connacht SF Last 10 titles: Mayo 6, Galway 2, Roscommon 1, Sligo 1. Draw format: Galway and Roscommon will travel to New York and London respectively in the first round next May - otherwise it's an open draw. Unlike Leinster and Munster, which give preferential treatment to counties who did best in the previous campaign, Connacht operate an open draw except for the rota involving New York and London, which sees the five counties take on the Exiles in sequence. A four-way split in the last 10 titles looks healthy but it's not quite that sound, since Mayo have won the last four. Galway were the last county to win the five-in-a-row, from 1956-60. However, they are now heading into the seventh year without a provincial title, their longest losing run since 1987-95. Munster SF Last 10 titles: Kerry 6, Cork 4. Draw format: Cork and Kerry are seeded through to the semi-finals; Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford will be drawn in the quarter-finals. Following the controversy which erupted last year when Cork and Kerry were seeded to avoid each other, the system has been changed so that the finalists go through to the last four, where the pairings will be made by open draw. It leaves Cork and Kerry with a 50-50 chance of drawing each other in the semi-finals.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 9, 2014 20:02:45 GMT
Dublin Kerry Mayo or Cork . I can't see anyone outside those four . Armagh and Galway will be better they might cause a surprise on one of the big four . Tyrone need to bring in some youth the older guys are done . Kildare promise to come good every year but it never happens . Monaghan look good in Ulster but then fall apart . Down Derry Meath and Roscommon are too Inconsistent . Kildare don't promise *e!! They can't footpass and they pick a lot of big lads for underage. I was shocked Clare didn't beat them.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 9, 2014 20:06:41 GMT
Dublin Kerry Mayo or Cork . I can't see anyone outside those four . Armagh and Galway will be better they might cause a surprise on one of the big four . Tyrone need to bring in some youth the older guys are done . Kildare promise to come good every year but it never happens . Monaghan look good in Ulster but then fall apart . Down Derry Meath and Roscommon are too Inconsistent . Kildare don't promise *e!! They can't footpass and they pick a lot of big lads for underage. I was shocked Clare didn't beat them. Clare didn't beat them because they are not as good Chill out, Geezer left two years ago...............
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 9, 2014 20:48:31 GMT
Tyrone gone wsy back and won't feature. If Micky Harte has Tyrone football in its best interests he'd walk now and leave peter canavan at it Peter Canavan - the same lad who the Fermanagh county board gave three years to initially but was forced out after two years because he wasnt up to matching Fermanagh's ambitions. There's no way that any serious football county is going to go anywhere near Canavan as manager. The only way he will get it in Tyrone is if there is a severe shortage of decent alternative interested and even then he will be relying on his reputation as a player as opposed to anything he has done as a manager which is generally a recipe for disaster.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 9, 2014 20:52:25 GMT
Brophy and Hurley off to Aussie Rules and Doyle retiring.
Hard to see Kildare making much progress next year.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 9, 2014 20:54:58 GMT
Well theres a tough assignment. tyrone, armagh, down/derry and potentially monaghan to win ulster. Preparation will start yesterday for this task.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 9, 2014 21:02:23 GMT
Well theres a tough assignment. tyrone, armagh, down/derry and potentially monaghan to win ulster. Preparation will start yesterday for this task. The secret to Donegal's success - time travel
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 9, 2014 21:29:28 GMT
Well theres a tough assignment. tyrone, armagh, down/derry and potentially monaghan to win ulster. Preparation will start yesterday for this task. Farcical... hardly a level playing pitch. But Ulster will defend the status quo to the last.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 9, 2014 21:38:25 GMT
Im not sure of an alternative. It probably would involve other provinces crossing over to make 8 even teams, plus some strong teams jumping over to other provinces or weaker ones for that mater. And thats when the complaints are likely to start. Personally, I think it might be worth a try. This is our 3rd time in the preliminary round in 5 years. Its a hell of a long road from the beginning of may to august especially when you have got to prepare for the likes of tyrone. I would nearly prefer to lose that game and go round the country for a change, as victory v tyrone would spell a trip to armagh, who are waiting in the long grass for us. and there are potentially other revenge missions in store.
Bring on the westmeaths and wicklows for a change I say, it could be the best road to the end of the summer for us next year if we have any realistic prospects of getting there.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 9, 2014 21:39:57 GMT
I always found it quite strange that the Ulster champions were in the draw for the preliminary round- they should be at least guaranteed a bye through this round as recognition of the previous years win
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 9, 2014 21:41:59 GMT
Longford beat Derry in the championship, the Ulster championship might not be all it is cracked up to be. Armagh division 3, Monaghan and Donegal division 2 this year. Down division 2 also, Tyrone in transition/decline/fading away. Cavan, Fermanagh and Antrim, padding.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 10, 2014 6:04:49 GMT
Kildare don't promise *e!! They can't footpass and they pick a lot of big lads for underage. I was shocked Clare didn't beat them. Clare didn't beat them because they are not as good Chill out, Geezer left two years ago............... No problem with Geezer.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Oct 10, 2014 9:44:01 GMT
Dublin Kerry Mayo or Cork . I can't see anyone outside those four . Armagh and Galway will be better they might cause a surprise on one of the big four . Tyrone need to bring in some youth the older guys are done . Kildare promise to come good every year but it never happens . Monaghan look good in Ulster but then fall apart . Down Derry Meath and Roscommon are too Inconsistent . Why are Cork given serious consideration every year? Two AI finals in last 7 years and with better teams then than now. Their best two outside Hurley, Goulding and O'Connor are near career end and while O'Neill is very talented, he's not consistent and hits flat spots in games. If Hurley, their talisman is gone down under, hopes recede further. They just don't have the forwards to get the job done once August arrives, so unless they produce a gem or two the quarters or semis will be as far they progress again. Donegal can't be easily dismissed either imo.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Oct 10, 2014 10:56:29 GMT
Four teams had a realistic chance of winning this year’s All Ireland - the 4 semi-finalists. Viewed from this far out, next year will be different. I think there are only 2 realistic possibilities for Sam – Kerry and Dublin. Mayo have a few hurdles to get over. After this year it may be that they simply are not good enough. They also have to adjust to a new manager. Also there is the spectre of the new management being measured against the McStay / McHale possibility. Too many ifs.
Donegal will have a manager who will be trying to fill shoes that cannot be filled and will have a few retirements also.
With Cuthbert, Cork seem to be limited enough. Dual players will recognise this and see a better chance of winning a medal under Barry-Murphy. Some are talking already about “deciding”.
Three teams that will be better next year and may be dark horses.
Galway- a good young team and will benefit from the new manager. Fitzwop has said that they are miles from an All-Ireland and that is true as far as lifting Sam is concerned but they could be mature enough next year to give some team a right run in the Semi Final.
Armagh will definitely be a force under McGeeney. He always got Kildare to the quarter finals and he showed his hand a little bit this year even though he was only assistant manager. Can’t believe that Brolly & McStay put Down ahead of them when discussing the Ulster draw last night.
Meath are better than they appeared this year. They went into the game against Dublin short a couple of players through injury and everything went wrong. They have a very astute manager in Mick O’Dowd. Again, they won’t lift Sam but could have a good run.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 10, 2014 12:02:17 GMT
Ah Jazus, yew are worse than the shops, at least they're only talking about xMas!
Quote for today - God laughs when man plan's
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