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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 23, 2014 15:45:30 GMT
How many games did Donaghy play this year? League and c'ship. Murphy should have got FF, Ryan McHugh HF. Why would performances in a pre-season competition like the league count? Managers get judged by everyone on how the team does in the championship, should be no different to players. And there is no way you can justify the selection of a player who got subbed off in the biggest game of the year. People are jumping the gun with him. If that's the case, should Dublin and Mayo have got any awards at all then, as they didn't even reach the final I was just curious about Donaghy's game time this season. But why shouldn't the league count? It's not known as the Championship All Stars.
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G_S_J
Senior Member
With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
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Post by G_S_J on Oct 23, 2014 15:45:29 GMT
Dublin got 6 last year, as opposed to Kerry's 5 this year. Seeing as they won the League also it's hard to argue a case for anti Kerry or pro Dublin bias based on those numbers. McCarthy may have been a bit lucky to get one this year, but could well have got one last year and didn't. As far as I know All-Star criteria is Championship only and what happened a previous year certainly shouldn't be considered. Dublin are the only county that can be well beaten in a semi-final and still wind up with three All Stars. Iv a funny feeling Connolly will get POTY now, we'll probably be asked to give back Sam as well!
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Post by donegalman on Oct 23, 2014 15:57:12 GMT
Congrats, for all its worth, to both the nominees and the recipients of the all stars. No big surprises to be honest. There always is a bit of disappointment on the day they are handed out, but it is a balancing act. I thought that our Durcan was lucky to get one over the Monaghan keeper. I also thought that AOM was unlucky not to get one, but it would have meant someone like Murphy, Mcgee or Higgins not getting one. Mayo got 3 for their part in the epic semis, I dont think that anyone would begrudge them their quota. Flynn and Connolly were always going to get one. Feel a wee bit sorry for Mchugh not getting one, but he can live with it seeing as he will be getting young player of the year instead. Murphy played a very solid year, and was all over the pitch, so McHugh had to make way for him. The full forward line is a good one. This was a very close all ireland series, and this probably had a lot to do with the way the semi finalists were represented strongly in the nominations and the awards.
How big a deal is this to the players?
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Post by gamechanger10 on Oct 23, 2014 15:57:16 GMT
Ard Mhacha McHugh is a very useful player in the type of system Donegal play. While particular drills cause their required result the likes of McHugh thrive and steal away into dangerous positions, he is bloody good at it too but like most of the McGuinness tricks once you know where the rabbit is pulled from you can have the hound waiting for him at the right place. Murphy was given his brief as were several other players in his vicinity and the rest is history as they say..
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Post by skybluezone on Oct 23, 2014 15:58:19 GMT
1 million+ in the county, a supposedly die-heart fan base, their own hill....and yet they need a Kerry forum to express their own inferiority complex!!! It is nice that even the Dubs turn to Kerry for all things football!!! haha Touched a nerve have I??? You forgot to mention AIG!!!
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Oct 23, 2014 15:59:58 GMT
Why would performances in a pre-season competition like the league count? Managers get judged by everyone on how the team does in the championship, should be no different to players. And there is no way you can justify the selection of a player who got subbed off in the biggest game of the year. People are jumping the gun with him. If that's the case, should Dublin and Mayo have got any awards at all then, as they didn't even reach the final I was just curious about Donaghy's game time this season. But why shouldn't the league count? It's not known as the Championship All Stars. I'm not referring to playing in the final, I'm referring to performing when your team needs you most. So if Dublin or a Mayo player had to be taken off in the semi final because of their performance then they shouldn't be picked...but you know what I meant anyways, you just didn't have anything better to come back with . "It's not known as the Championship All Stars." It's not known as the "league and championship All-Stars" either. People only seem to mention the league with regard to All-Stars when it suits them. But the fact is the league is merely a warm-up for the championship. Plenty of teams would give up all their league points for just one championship game in Croke Park, the Dubs would no doubt give up their league title to play in AI final. Why should we start giving the league so much more importance when it comes to the league? The league is so often just about experimentation with a view to the championship.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Oct 23, 2014 16:01:55 GMT
1 million+ in the county, a supposedly die-heart fan base, their own hill....and yet they need a Kerry forum to express their own inferiority complex!!! It is nice that even the Dubs turn to Kerry for all things football!!! haha Touched a nerve have I??? You forgot to mention AIG!!! "Touched a nerve?" Why so? I ended with a "haha", but if you can't take it...
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Post by skybluezone on Oct 23, 2014 16:07:01 GMT
Dublin got 6 last year, as opposed to Kerry's 5 this year. Seeing as they won the League also it's hard to argue a case for anti Kerry or pro Dublin bias based on those numbers. McCarthy may have been a bit lucky to get one this year, but could well have got one last year and didn't. As far as I know All-Star criteria is Championship only and what happened a previous year certainly shouldn't be considered. Dublin are the only county that can be well beaten in a semi-final and still wind up with three All Stars. Iv a funny feeling Connolly will get POTY now, we'll probably be asked to give back Sam as well!As I said in a post yonks ago, these are only a bit of fun. Sure haven't you got the big silver thing to keep you happy this year! I also said that James Mc was a bit lucky to get one. Jesus the amount of anti Dub vitriol out there is incredible. O'Donoghue probably deserves player of the year, no argument from me. But will he be the only player of the year to be outscored by his marker in the final??? It was all part of the masterplan I'm sure, Eamon Fitz is the new Jim McG! Durkan shouldn't have got one either. Some going from Flynn, fourth in a row. But he's a Dub, cue resentment and reduction of funding.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 23, 2014 16:29:20 GMT
If that's the case, should Dublin and Mayo have got any awards at all then, as they didn't even reach the final I was just curious about Donaghy's game time this season. But why shouldn't the league count? It's not known as the Championship All Stars. I'm not referring to playing in the final, I'm referring to performing when your team needs you most. So if Dublin or a Mayo player had to be taken off in the semi final because of their performance then they shouldn't be picked...but you know what I meant anyways, you just didn't have anything better to come back with . "It's not known as the Championship All Stars." It's not known as the "league and championship All-Stars" either. People only seem to mention the league with regard to All-Stars when it suits them. But the fact is the league is merely a warm-up for the championship. Plenty of teams would give up all their league points for just one championship game in Croke Park, the Dubs would no doubt give up their league title to play in AI final. Why should we start giving the league so much more importance when it comes to the league? The league is so often just about experimentation with a view to the championship. Should be put up in every sports news room in the country. The GAA is about the Championship and not the league.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 23, 2014 16:44:24 GMT
Kerry are getting their little slap on the knuckles from the media for going defensive and bringing the game into disrepute and for partaking in the worst final of all time. The power of perception and agenda. Petty behaviour in fairness. Maybe if the hacks take a closer look they will see that Kerry held a traditional defensive formation, played a line across the middle third and neutered Donegal at source by preventing Donegal's breakaway game from defence at speed on the turnover. Yawn, its the hacks little play thing at the end of the day........
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Post by ballybunion on Oct 23, 2014 17:09:22 GMT
I wouldn't swop Donncha Walsh for 2 Connolly's.Dublin are no world beaters as far as I'm concerned they won All Ireland fair and square in 2013 but were gifted an All Ireland in 2011 from Uncle Joe.Dublin free wheeled through Leinster and when the first test came BANG! Yet the weakest and found wanting line in 2014 the half back line gets an All Star award.
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Post by Corner Back on Oct 23, 2014 17:31:38 GMT
The All Stars are gone beyond a joke at this stage. O'Mahony should have been a certainty for me. What more could the man have done to get one?
Will James McCarthy turn up at the all star function Friday night ..... cos he went missing during the semi final. Which make me think how did McCarthy get one and Ryan McHugh not! Oh ya, throw him the young player of the year gong to keep him happy! JOKE SHOP
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 23, 2014 17:42:49 GMT
The All Stars are gone beyond a joke at this stage. O'Mahony should have been a certainty for me. What more could the man have done to get one? Will James McCarthy turn up at the all star function Friday night ..... cos he went missing during the semi final. Which make me think how did McCarthy get one and Ryan McHugh not! Oh ya, throw him the young player of the year gong to keep him happy! JOKE SHOP A la Ronan Clarke in 2002.
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Oct 23, 2014 17:45:18 GMT
Ard Mhacha McHugh is a very useful player in the type of system Donegal play. While particular drills cause their required result the likes of McHugh thrive and steal away into dangerous positions, he is bloody good at it too but like most of the McGuinness tricks once you know where the rabbit is pulled from you can have the hound waiting for him at the right place. Murphy was given his brief as were several other players in his vicinity and the rest is history as they say.. Kerry maybe strangled McHugh but the rest didn't. One mediocre performance in an otherwise excellent season shouldn't lose him an award.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 23, 2014 17:49:50 GMT
Giving Dublin 3 All Stars is just rewarding under performance.
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Post by shannonsider on Oct 23, 2014 18:36:23 GMT
I wouldn't swop Donncha Walsh for 2 Connolly's.Dublin are no world beaters as far as I'm concerned they won All Ireland fair and square in 2013 but were gifted an All Ireland in 2011 from Uncle Joe.Dublin free wheeled through Leinster and when the first test came BANG! Yet the weakest and found wanting line in 2014 the half back line gets an All Star award. Ah c'mon..you would. Whatever about arguments over Allstars, Connolly and Flynn are 2 top class players. Connolly,despite having dodgy temperament, is really a joy to watch when he's in that form. Whether the half forwards are the right selection for this year's allstars or not is one debate, but if I had to pick a best 15 team of Footballers in the morning, Flynn and Connolly would probably be the 2 half forwards.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Oct 23, 2014 18:59:59 GMT
Delighted for the star, no Donaghy no all Ireland so it was a no brainer really. No player made more of an impact in this year's championship. We should be happy enough with 5 although we deserved another. I think Aidan O Mahony was hard done by but he won't mind a bit as he has another celtic cross in his arse pocket. I think Colm Boyle of mayo was fortunate enough to get an all star, he was outstanding in the second half of the drawn game, however, he didn't cover himself in glory in Limerick. I thought Andy Mallon of Armagh had a fantastic season and was unlucky to be overlooked. James Mc Carthy a terrible selection. He excelled in the least competitive provincial championship and was MIA in the semi final.
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Post by southward on Oct 23, 2014 19:02:04 GMT
I wouldn't swop Donncha Walsh for 2 Connolly's.Dublin are no world beaters as far as I'm concerned they won All Ireland fair and square in 2013 but were gifted an All Ireland in 2011 from Uncle Joe.Dublin free wheeled through Leinster and when the first test came BANG! Yet the weakest and found wanting line in 2014 the half back line gets an All Star award. Ah c'mon..you would. Whatever about arguments over Allstars, Connolly and Flynn are 2 top class players. Connolly,despite having dodgy temperament, is really a joy to watch when he's in that form. Whether the half forwards are the right selection for this year's allstars or not is one debate, but if I had to pick a best 15 team of Footballers in the morning, Flynn and Connolly would probably be the 2 half forwards. Maybe, but it's the best this year that is the question here.
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Post by hurlingman on Oct 23, 2014 20:02:34 GMT
Cluxtons's poor free kicking at the business end will cost him his All-Star this year in light of the errors by his main competitors and could potentially open the door for Rory Beggan, who coincidently contributed heavily on the score sheet for Monaghan from placed balls. A big challenge for Clucko to direct operations again from number 1 in 2015. The Dubs were flaky during the league while the Leinster championship resembles a bit of a stag party now for the Dubs, pissing their way through it, neither competition will hardly carry much collateral when the gongs are being banded about, apart of course from Cinderella who should be home by midnight on the night of the gongs. so what you are saying is that when weighing up the Dubs performance that Leinster shouldnt count cos they hosed through it and League shouldnt count cos they were flaky, but still won it. Which leaves the qf v Monaghan which they hosed through, and the sf v Donegal, who did a number on them. No one here has mentioned the Monaghan game So essentially lets judge them on the game they lost. Fair enough, even on that one Flynn and Connolly were immense, outrageous points scored by both, and on truth the only goodthing to come out of thatfor us.Fitzwop, you sayCluxton should only be judged against himself, but isnt the concept of the allstars that u are judged against the rest in your position? You both are correct in saying he wasnt great this year but he was still better than Durkan for instance. When any decentg team you play is specifically setting up to nullify your threat and you are the keeper then enough said. Of course there is a bit of my looking thru sky blue goggles but as supporters we all display that tendancy. Its is fair to say that I am not yet in BallyKthefireside territory, who informs us in another thread that Kerry won cos they had 20 great players compared to Donegal and Mayo having only 10, which by inference would suggest that Dublin may have about 5.! Sure I'm only loking for 2 or 3! I think you should go back to Hoganstand, you'll be a lot more at home with the rest of the blue tinted gang
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Post by hurlingman on Oct 23, 2014 20:16:43 GMT
If other ''national'' sites are to go by then Kerry are lucky to even get one! I find it quite funny how the league has become relevant to Dubs in the last 2 years, i wonder why that is? Just like how the club championships should have a bearing on the All Stars, again cant think why that is...
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Post by donegalman on Oct 23, 2014 21:03:49 GMT
Kerry are getting their little slap on the knuckles from the media for going defensive and bringing the game into disrepute and for partaking in the worst final of all time. The power of perception and agenda. Petty behaviour in fairness. Maybe if the hacks take a closer look they will see that Kerry held a traditional defensive formation, played a line across the middle third and neutered Donegal at source by preventing Donegal's breakaway game from defence at speed on the turnover. Yawn, its the hacks little play thing at the end of the day........ lol, in fairness, it was not the worst final in the history of the game, only in the bottom 3 maybe, but defo not the worst. If the all stars were to be judged on the final, AOM would have been a shoe in for one, as would Donachy. Murphy for kerry, Marc Oshea and Peter Crowley were unsung heros really. For Donegal, Toye, Neil McGee, and McBrearty if he played the 70 mins. Funny how only 3 of the aforementioned got all stars. The nominations must be audited over the course of the season rather than one game. I thought Ryan Mchugh had a bad game in the final, but was very very well marshaled. (He and Toye were terrific for us this year). Maybe as you say this is the punishment for partaking in this game? OR maybe the quota was set out before the final was thrown in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 21:31:50 GMT
It's tough on Aidan O'Mahony and Donnacha Walsh both had a good Championship . They would not have won it without Donaghy . It's as simple as that . He saved them against Mayo and his Goal was the Difference in the All Ireland . I think he Deserves it . Kerry should have got more than 5 . Having said that all the players that were picked are very good Footballers . It would be hard to drop anyone too . Still enjoying Kerrys Victory .
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 23, 2014 22:40:30 GMT
Kerry are getting their little slap on the knuckles from the media for going defensive and bringing the game into disrepute and for partaking in the worst final of all time. The power of perception and agenda. Petty behaviour in fairness. Maybe if the hacks take a closer look they will see that Kerry held a traditional defensive formation, played a line across the middle third and neutered Donegal at source by preventing Donegal's breakaway game from defence at speed on the turnover. Yawn, its the hacks little play thing at the end of the day........ lol, in fairness, it was not the worst final in the history of the game, only in the bottom 3 maybe, but defo not the worst. If the all stars were to be judged on the final, AOM would have been a shoe in for one, as would Donachy. Murphy for kerry, Marc Oshea and Peter Crowley were unsung heros really. For Donegal, Toye, Neil McGee, and McBrearty if he played the 70 mins. Funny how only 3 of the aforementioned got all stars. The nominations must be audited over the course of the season rather than one game. I thought Ryan Mchugh had a bad game in the final, but was very very well marshaled. (He and Toye were terrific for us this year). Maybe as you say this is the punishment for partaking in this game? OR maybe the quota was set out before the final was thrown in. I'm seeing Tyrone with 7 all-stars in 2003 & 2008, 8 in 2005, Donegal 8 in 2012, Kerry 5 in 1997 & 2014 etc. I'm getting more cynical the older I get. I know a flick in the nuts when I see one! See my post on page two of this thread dated 2nd of this month............
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fitz
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Red sky at night get off my land
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Post by fitz on Oct 23, 2014 23:01:53 GMT
The ruination of many an All-Star team is the lack coherent adhesion to positions. The selection of many players is based on their performances on the field but not in a specific position on the field. Woolly Parkinson has been doing his nut over Murphy and Donaghy being picked, especially Murphy at centre-forward where he is dormant. He feels Donaghy was nailed on, so one of the two lose out, but then you say well Murphy is the catalyst for Donegal, really led the way back against Dublin and you get "sure we have to put him in somewhere...". It would be great if there was a clear template/formula that was transparent to everyone on how players are selected. It would still deliver hard luck stories but greater consistency in selection.
Regarding the "we wouldn't have won without him..." - specifically Star, it's definitely true, but I think you need to build a list of them. Here's mine
David Moran JOD Paul Geaney Aidan O'Mahoney Peter Crowley Paul Murphy Star Donners Barry John Keane - might surprise, think on his many contributions from Galway onwards
As for this years awards
NAILED ON (for me)
P.Murphy Higgins McGee Moran Gallagher JOD O'Connor Donaghy Connolly Flynn
Flynn and Connolly are in for me because of their consistent displays and are significantly from an attacking perspective the standout players in the country in this line. They did almost everything right in all games, Yes they regressed in second half against Donegal, but I don't think it should cost them. Connolly arguably got the point of the year in the second half.
Call for Recount
Boyle - excellent footballer, very solid year, not much against him but for comparing with people who missed out Crowley - excellent footballer, very solid year, not much against him but for comparing with people who missed out McCarthy - lovely footballer, but had a very poor semi although was excellent up to that playing against sub-standard opposition(not his fault)
Aidan O'Mahoney does not miss out on any sane analysis of Championship form. It's an outrageous omission. Can the guards be called over it?
So for me - he comes in and I move Paul Murphy to right half back where he has played a lot of football. So if that ensues one of McCarthy/Crowley/Boyle lose out. I would lean toward McCarthy because simply Boyle played well all Championship and especially in two very intense semis. McCarthy didn't play well in the one really tough game Dublin had. Likewise Crowley had an extra game in the final and a good one and played well in both semis. That's one reason why the finalists get the greater share and for me that is just especially in a tight call.
M.Murphy - in essence what's wrong with the All-Star selection process, a brilliant footballer who had a good championship but not in a specific role. Outside Flynn and Connolly, Donnacha is the best half-forward in the country at present. He is not as prolific on the scoreboard as the two Dublin lads but he's far superior in his defensive duties. I would move Flynn centre forward and Donnacha on the right and unfortunately Murphy would lose out.
So 2 changes it's going to read total bias but I think the logic is sound
Durcan O'Mahoney McGee Higgins Murphy Crowley Boyle Moran Gallagher Connolly Flynn Walsh O'Connor Donaghy JOD
Unlucky Ryan McHugh Michael Murphy Paul Geaney Aidan O'Shea Michael Darragh McAuley - did very little wrong, one of the best against Donegal too
Fair?
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Post by donegalman on Oct 23, 2014 23:29:01 GMT
There would be a bubble of dis-satisfaction under the wallpaper either way, no mater what way the all stars are picked.
The shame of last year is that Connolly was left out of the all stars. Imagine that. AOM is the person who loses out this year, and to a lesser extent, Ryan McHugh. I am at a loss as to why James McCarthy was in the line up this year, i didnt even notice him on the pitch the day we played him. If there was a player who possibly could be re-selected for someone else I would look at him.
Monaghan, Meath, Armagh and Cork would be the other teams that could have coughed up an all star between them, Armagh being the most lively of them all, but they had no stand out player either. I am sure they will be up there next year, defo the year after.
I would have a bit of an issue with leaving both Ryan Mchugh or Murphy off the team. At least one of them got one, and that is all you can realistically hope for at the end of the day.
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Post by jigsawpuzzle on Oct 23, 2014 23:32:00 GMT
Diarmuid Connolly will win player of the year. I don't agree with it, but he will. Mark my words.
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Post by donegalman on Oct 23, 2014 23:39:40 GMT
Diarmuid Connolly will win player of the year. I don't agree with it, but he will. Mark my words. I must look at his price. u could be right.
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Post by jigsawpuzzle on Oct 23, 2014 23:43:02 GMT
Diarmuid Connolly will win player of the year. I don't agree with it, but he will. Mark my words. I must look at his price. u could be right. The Dubs have gotten a serious campaign rolling behind him. 'He can do things that O'Donoghue can't do', 'he's by far the best player in the country'. All things I've heard being said about him the last few days. And when the Dubs say it, everyone follows. Remember the one about them being the best team of all time? A lot of people subscribed to that view!
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Post by wideball on Oct 24, 2014 0:16:12 GMT
The Sunday game are huge fans of connolly as well. JOD deserves it this year
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 3:53:18 GMT
The ruination of many an All-Star team is the lack coherent adhesion to positions. The selection of many players is based on their performances on the field but not in a specific position on the field. Woolly Parkinson has been doing his nut over Murphy and Donaghy being picked, especially Murphy at centre-forward where he is dormant. He feels Donaghy was nailed on, so one of the two lose out, but then you say well Murphy is the catalyst for Donegal, really led the way back against Dublin and you get "sure we have to put him in somewhere...". It would be great if there was a clear template/formula that was transparent to everyone on how players are selected. It would still deliver hard luck stories but greater consistency in selection. Regarding the "we wouldn't have won without him..." - specifically Star, it's definitely true, but I think you need to build a list of them. Here's mine David Moran JOD Paul Geaney Aidan O'Mahoney Peter Crowley Paul Murphy Star Donners Barry John Keane - might surprise, think on his many contributions from Galway onwards As for this years awards NAILED ON (for me) P.Murphy Higgins McGee Moran Gallagher JOD O'Connor Donaghy Connolly Flynn Flynn and Connolly are in for me because of their consistent displays and are significantly from an attacking perspective the standout players in the country in this line. They did almost everything right in all games, Yes they regressed in second half against Donegal, but I don't think it should cost them. Connolly arguably got the point of the year in the second half. Call for Recount Boyle - excellent footballer, very solid year, not much against him but for comparing with people who missed out Crowley - excellent footballer, very solid year, not much against him but for comparing with people who missed out McCarthy - lovely footballer, but had a very poor semi although was excellent up to that playing against sub-standard opposition(not his fault) Aidan O'Mahoney does not miss out on any sane analysis of Championship form. It's an outrageous omission. Can the guards be called over it? So for me - he comes in and I move Paul Murphy to right half back where he has played a lot of football. So if that ensues one of McCarthy/Crowley/Boyle lose out. I would lean toward McCarthy because simply Boyle played well all Championship and especially in two very intense semis. McCarthy didn't play well in the one really tough game Dublin had. Likewise Crowley had an extra game in the final and a good one and played well in both semis. That's one reason why the finalists get the greater share and for me that is just especially in a tight call. M.Murphy - in essence what's wrong with the All-Star selection process, a brilliant footballer who had a good championship but not in a specific role. Outside Flynn and Connolly, Donnacha is the best half-forward in the country at present. He is not as prolific on the scoreboard as the two Dublin lads but he's far superior in his defensive duties. I would move Flynn centre forward and Donnacha on the right and unfortunately Murphy would lose out. So 2 changes it's going to read total bias but I think the logic is sound Durcan O'Mahoney McGee Higgins Murphy Crowley Boyle Moran Gallagher Connolly Flynn Walsh O'Connor Donaghy JOD Unlucky Ryan McHugh Michael Murphy Paul Geaney Aidan O'Shea Michael Darragh McAuley - did very little wrong, one of the best against Donegal too Fair? Very fair and balanced post. I would have no issue with Murphy on the half forward line though. Positions are a lot more fluid these days and given his performances there should be some flexibility shown. Mahoney is by far the standout ommission however and is a shocking oversight. The reality is while people say these awards are a joke, for the most part the selectors get it right. The ommissions of donncha, Aidan and to a lesser extent mchugh are the only real talking points.
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