kot
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Posts: 1,126
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Post by kot on Sept 3, 2014 10:22:35 GMT
First time meeting Donegal in a Final so I checked back the records to see what other patterns are noteworthy. On a provincial basis our win/loss numbers are Leinster Opponents - won 18, Lost 11. Connaught Opponents - won 11, Lost 4. Munster (since back door) won 2, lost 0. London won 1, lost 0. Then we come to Ulster where we have 4 wins but 6 losses. 1986 is the last time we beat an Ulster team to lift Sam and since then three of our four losses have been to Ulster teams. As with all numbers we can take what we want from this - either we are due a victory over an Ulster team or Ulster teams are our hoodoo province!!! Dublin is the team we have played most often in Finals - 12 times with an 8-4 win-loss ratio. Next comes Galway who we have played 7 times with a 4-3 W-L ratio. 4 of our 5. Ard Mhaca would be keen to remind of you 2002 I'm sure.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 3, 2014 10:26:43 GMT
First time meeting Donegal in a Final so I checked back the records to see what other patterns are noteworthy. On a provincial basis our win/loss numbers are Leinster Opponents - won 18, Lost 11. Connaught Opponents - won 11, Lost 4. Munster (since back door) won 2, lost 0. London won 1, lost 0. Then we come to Ulster where we have 4 wins but 6 losses. 1986 is the last time we beat an Ulster team to lift Sam and since then three of our four losses have been to Ulster teams. As with all numbers we can take what we want from this - either we are due a victory over an Ulster team or Ulster teams are our hoodoo province!!! Dublin is the team we have played most often in Finals - 12 times with an 8-4 win-loss ratio. Next comes Galway who we have played 7 times with a 4-3 W-L ratio. 4 of our 5. Ard Mhaca would be keen to remind of you 2002 I'm sure. Armagh beat us in 2002, Tyrone beat us in 2005 and 2008. Which other final loss to Ulster teams have I erased from my mind?
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kot
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Post by kot on Sept 3, 2014 10:32:04 GMT
4 of our 5. Ard Mhaca would be keen to remind of you 2002 I'm sure. Armagh beat us in 2002, Tyrone beat us in 2005 and 2008. Which other final loss to Ulster teams have I erased from my mind? My mistake, I counted the semi defeat in '03 aswell. Retract, Retract!!
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 3, 2014 11:36:50 GMT
We've only one win and five losses to Ulster opposition in finals in the last 60 years.
In c'ship outside of finals it reads much better in that period. W18 D2 L6
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 3, 2014 11:38:14 GMT
I was astonished to be told today that Killian was the only member of the 2009 team to start in Limerick. That is extraordinary attrition in the space of five years. It certainly highlights the progress Eamon has made. Jesus, that is some stat. Also 14 players played in their 1st or 2nd semifinal this year.
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Post by glengael on Sept 3, 2014 11:39:05 GMT
Train tickets now on sale on Irish rail website for Sept 21st.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 3, 2014 11:53:27 GMT
Again on the theme of Kerry playing Donegal in a final for the first time. in Kerry's 57 previous finals we have only played 15 (16 if you count London) other counties. The remaining 16 counties breaks out as follows - eight have NEVER reached a final (Carlow, Kilkenny, Westmeath, Wicklow, Longford, Fermanagh, Leitrim, Sligo). Four are from our own province (Clare, Tipp, Waterford, Limerick) and this leaves Antrim, Derry and Laois. Imagine living in a county that has never experienced an All Ireland Final (at least Kilkenny have the hurling) - and we are unhappy if we don't get there every year.
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Post by Glaschu Gael on Sept 3, 2014 12:18:37 GMT
In that regard is it time for the Championship to be an open draw like the FA cup in England for example. Give counties who've never been in a final the chance to get there. I know it throws up the problem of there being no provincial finals each year. Thoughts ?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 3, 2014 12:55:22 GMT
In that regard is it time for the Championship to be an open draw like the FA cup in England for example. Give counties who've never been in a final the chance to get there. I know it throws up the problem of there being no provincial finals each year. Thoughts ? What do you think things were like in the days before the qualifiers? If a county isn't good enough to get to a final under the current system it won't be able to get to a final under any other system unless you propose something crazy like anti-seeding where you put the 16 top teams on one side and the 16 bottom teams on the other side... which is profoundly stupid.
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oshea
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Post by oshea on Sept 3, 2014 13:01:29 GMT
B Kelly; P Murphy, A O'Mahony, S Enright; K Young (0-01), P Crowley, F Fitzgerald; A Maher, D Moran; M Geaney, J Buckley, D Walsh; K Donaghy (1-00), P Geaney (0-04, 0-03f), J O'Donoghue (2-06, 2-00 pen, 0-02f)
D Murphy, M Ó Sé, T Griffin, T O'Sullivan, T Ó Sé (0-02), M McCarthy, K Young, D Ó Sé, S Scanlon, P Galvin, Declan O'Sullivan (0-01), T Kennelly (0-02), C Cooper (0-06, 6f), T Walsh (0-04), Darran O'Sullivan (0-01).
Intersting to see the change in players from a few years back to the Mayo game the last day with Killian the only starter. Huge credit to all involved and lots of people saying we are not in transition.
Donegal v Kerry final very hard to call but best of luck to both teams
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 3, 2014 13:31:24 GMT
In that regard is it time for the Championship to be an open draw like the FA cup in England for example. Give counties who've never been in a final the chance to get there. I know it throws up the problem of there being no provincial finals each year. Thoughts ? What do you think things were like in the days before the qualifiers? If a county isn't good enough to get to a final under the current system it won't be able to get to a final under any other system unless you propose something crazy like anti-seeding where you put the 16 top teams on one side and the 16 bottom teams on the other side... which is profoundly stupid. Agree totally with Annacaul.. If you look at the club scene only 1 of the 8 counties never to appear in an AI intercounty final have done it at club level and that is Wicklow. In fact in the 44 years of the Merrigan cup four of the 8 have not even managed provincial success at club level. No matter how you fix the rota of matches the better/stronger counties will win out - there is no substitute for building from grassroots and this is where money comes into play and if any manipulation with competition in the GAA is to succeed it must start with resources and how these are distributed among counties. Messing with open draws or seeding is not dealing with the core issue - money. Reward counties that are trying with extra resources (full time coaches for example) - distribute TV money in a way that is biased towards the less successful (but trying) counties. Bring back the second tier competition and give the finalists more than a cup - reward them with resources to match their effort in winning the cup.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Sept 3, 2014 13:54:14 GMT
Interestingly, only two Kerry players have played every minute of this years Championship - Brian Kelly and Paul Murphy. I imagine that this is an unusual stat. for any team!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 3, 2014 15:38:45 GMT
I'm not sure if you realise that the minor and senior finals are on the same day Im not sure you realise this guy's a complete wind up merchant!! He's a legend! Long Live The Shafter!
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Post by glengael on Sept 3, 2014 15:55:00 GMT
Interestingly, only two Kerry players have played every minute of this years Championship - Brian Kelly and Paul Murphy. I imagine that this is an unusual stat. for any team! That is interesting. A sign of changing times indeed.
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Post by wayupnorth on Sept 3, 2014 16:31:00 GMT
I was astonished to be told today that Killian was the only member of the 2009 team to start in Limerick. That is extraordinary attrition in the space of five years. It certainly highlights the progress Eamon has made. Jesus, that is some stat. And Marc was the only one to start the drawn match?
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 3, 2014 16:41:37 GMT
Jesus, that is some stat. And Marc was the only one to start the drawn match? It is all the more remarkable when you consider the quality of the players kerry have replaced since then.
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Post by Glaschu Gael on Sept 3, 2014 17:15:39 GMT
In that regard is it time for the Championship to be an open draw like the FA cup in England for example. Give counties who've never been in a final the chance to get there. I know it throws up the problem of there being no provincial finals each year. Thoughts ? What do you think things were like in the days before the qualifiers? If a county isn't good enough to get to a final under the current system it won't be able to get to a final under any other system unless you propose something crazy like anti-seeding where you put the 16 top teams on one side and the 16 bottom teams on the other side... which is profoundly stupid. I agree with you also.. I was just throwing it out there
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 3, 2014 18:08:26 GMT
Can we change the topic title to include the word "Kerry"? You'd swear we weren't involved!
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 3, 2014 18:28:21 GMT
A few odd moments from Saturday: - Donaghy scattering all the balls stored next to the Mayo goal, riling up the Mayo goalie - Donaghy on the ground holding onto the ball for dear life as 5 different Mayo players tried to take it off him like trying to pull Excalibur from the stone. - Peter Crowley getting boxed in and punching the ball over the Mayo players and getting it again on the other side (after letting it bounce). Within the rules but rarely seen. - when the sun came out, everyone in the city terrace getting blinded by the mirror like advertising hoardings. What must it be like on a sunny day? - Enright giving away a penalty and the Mayo crowd demanding he get sent off, Cafferkey giving away a penalty and the Kerry fans demanding he be left on. - Aidan O'Shea doing a reverse "Crocodile Dundee test" on Anthony Maher.
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Post by stevieq on Sept 3, 2014 19:03:39 GMT
A few odd moments from Saturday: - Donaghy scattering all the balls stored next to the Mayo goal, riling up the Mayo goalie - Donaghy on the ground holding onto the ball for dear life as 5 different Mayo players tried to take it off him like trying to pull Excalibur from the stone. - Peter Crowley getting boxed in and punching the ball over the Mayo players and getting it again on the other side (after letting it bounce). Within the rules but rarely seen. - when the sun came out, everyone in the city terrace getting blinded by the mirror like advertising hoardings. What must it be like on a sunny day? - Enright giving away a penalty and the Mayo crowd demanding he get sent off, Cafferkey giving away a penalty and the Kerry fans demanding he be left on. - Aidan O'Shea doing a reverse "Crocodile Dundee test" on Anthony Maher. Donaghy could rile up a nation - fair play to him.
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Post by beantownfan on Sept 3, 2014 21:41:55 GMT
A few odd moments from Saturday: - Donaghy scattering all the balls stored next to the Mayo goal, riling up the Mayo goalie - Donaghy on the ground holding onto the ball for dear life as 5 different Mayo players tried to take it off him like trying to pull Excalibur from the stone. - Peter Crowley getting boxed in and punching the ball over the Mayo players and getting it again on the other side (after letting it bounce). Within the rules but rarely seen. - when the sun came out, everyone in the city terrace getting blinded by the mirror like advertising hoardings. What must it be like on a sunny day? - Enright giving away a penalty and the Mayo crowd demanding he get sent off, Cafferkey giving away a penalty and the Kerry fans demanding he be left on. - Aidan O'Shea doing a reverse "Crocodile Dundee test" on Anthony Maher. I spotted Donaghy pulling that stunt too.. To be honest I am not a big fan of that carry on, but given the circumstances I had to smile.. I think this new batch of Kerry footballers have learned an awful lot of lessons from previous Kerry losses.. Case in point the brawls at the end. If Mayo had any sense they'd have run a country mile from those incidents, Kerry just went with the flow and burned a handy 3 minutes. For a relatively young team they are already pretty ruthless.. I just wouldn't like to see it become a primary feature of their game (kicking balls away, constantly holding up play when ahead).. There is a time and a place for everything, that mostly being in the last minute or two of a game. :-)
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2014 21:54:05 GMT
- Enright giving away a penalty and the Mayo crowd demanding he get sent off, Cafferkey giving away a penalty and the Kerry fans demanding he be left on.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Sept 3, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
Key the beating Donegal is to get ahead early, it could result in a decent win for Kerry. If we let Donegal get 1 or 2 points ahead it could be curtains with their ability to defend. So the first 10 minutes are vital. I know the Dubs got a decent lead but they were way too far up the pitch and conceded soft goals. I don't believe the lead will switch many times in the final. One aspect we must improve on is point taking. While the play was brilliant at times against Mayo, we had some miserable wides at the start and the end if the game,
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2014 22:02:08 GMT
Getting the balance right between playing it long to Donaghy and building through the middle will be crucal.
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Post by sidelined on Sept 3, 2014 22:28:44 GMT
there has been 80 minute finals , now seventy minute final , but this could be decided in the first 20 minutes. dkerry have to lead after 20 minutes and control their attacking unlike the dubs who threw too many forward and left space for donegal to counter attack into. with donaghy inside donegal will keep sweeper farther back than normal , hopefully j o d and others can loop around in front of the d and put over points. with kerry leading donegal will have to come out and kerry can then expliot that space. monaghan and mayo both beat them last year by doing this.
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Post by keepitsimple on Sept 3, 2014 23:14:28 GMT
Im feeling very smug after posting this comment way back in March in the "Mayo v Kerry" forum!!!! Mar 3, 2014 at 12:23am keepitsimple said: While I agree that Kerry faded badly in the second half , I think a lot of pundits on this forum and also some of our "experts" on radio kerry (billy o shea and weeshie fogarty in particular)are getting totally carried away with talk of Kerrys "lack of fitness". Kerry are building towards championship like they have always done, they do not posess footballers as good as we have had over the last decade, thats a fact and that really is the reason why we are losing games in the league. If Kerry were flying out of the traps at this stage it would be a cardinal sin for later in the year, Eamon Fitzmaurice and Cian O Neill know what they are doing, most people that are commenting dont know the science behind physical conditionong , these guys do, give them a chance , judge them come championship time Read more: kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/5413/mayo-kerry?page=3&scrollTo=157978#ixzz3CITtN3iY
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 4, 2014 1:08:40 GMT
Some of us are anxious that Donegal will win if they get a point or two ahead; they may well go 3 or 4 or more ahead and it would be unusual if the ebb and flow was less. But Kerry will hold their composure and as Donegal will. We are a massive side and the evidence so far would suggest that we should be favourites; Dublin were poor and broke down after 25 minutes and so made the Donegal boys look good. The Dubs were on their last legs in the last 25 mins but they still won plenty of scoreable possession, ball that we would have converted even after 90 mins in Limerick. In Donegal's game before that a handy Armagh all but took them to the cleaners so mark my words, Kerry will win this one by 5+ points and I'm not much good at bumming us up, I just feel we are too good for them and how much our men want it is all that is between us and no 37. We want this one a lot and the commitment is greater than it ever was in Kerry if that is possible. McGuinness uses a lot of terminology and you'd have to respect him but we have being putting all that into practice for decades. If anyone has any doubts just do the match-ups and you will see the daylight between the individuals. And if Jim doesn't know about our collective then he is about to find out.
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animal
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Post by animal on Sept 4, 2014 10:27:40 GMT
Quiet in here today.
What do people think about how we might handle an aerial assault by Donegal in the final? I have a feeling they may approach the game similarly to the way they approached Mayo early on in 2012. I remember Kevin Keane of Mayo having a nightmare under the high ball and Murphy et al making hay early on in the game. The goal we conceded in the 2nd half V Mayo on Saturday would give me cause for concern. I'm sure Eamonn will be preparing the lads for such an eventuality but it is a worry.
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scart
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Post by scart on Sept 4, 2014 11:14:20 GMT
Really impressed by Crowley the last day haven't seen a commanding centre back performance like that since we got Mike the Hammer to come out of retirement in 09 hopefully he can carry this form into the final
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Post by seaniebo on Sept 4, 2014 11:15:13 GMT
Quiet in here today. What do people think about how we might handle an aerial assault by Donegal in the final? I have a feeling they may approach the game similarly to the way they approached Mayo early on in 2012. I remember Kevin Keane of Mayo having a nightmare under the high ball and Murphy et al making hay early on in the game. The goal we conceded in the 2nd half V Mayo on Saturday would give me cause for concern. I'm sure Eamonn will be preparing the lads for such an eventuality but it is a worry. Undoubtedly the high ball could trouble us. It's an area where Donegal may target and should target. McFadden was a thorn in our side in 2012. That goal still rankles with me. It was a huge moment in the game and gave Donegal a huge platform. The match ups will be interesting. Mark Griffin could well feature if his form is good in training. He played really well when he came on against Mayo and his physical strength may give us a new dimension back there with a substantial aerial threat. Otherwise you'd probably be looking at Aidan O Mahoney on Murphy and Marc attempting to shackle McFadden.
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