animal
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Post by animal on Sept 1, 2014 15:05:54 GMT
This may have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum but are there any injury updates after Saturday?
The main concerns would be James and Aidan. Were they simply cramped or what? The fact that I have heard nothing makes me think it was just severe cramping.
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 1, 2014 15:10:16 GMT
Neither of them looked like players who were worried about their fitness when interviewed post match. I though James looked like he'd rolled an ankle, wouldn't think there are any worries about either of them.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 15:11:11 GMT
We have a fair idea about the Donegal style of play - defend in numbers and attack in waves. We know that Dublin contributed to their own downfall by poor defence and total overconfidence. We know we can be vulnerable when teams run at us and we need to keep our defensive lines intact. I think if we maintain our defensive discipline we will win as we have more match winners and variety in our forward division. Interesting that over the past ten years only Kerry as defending champions have been beaten by the eventual winners. In fact Kerry are the only defending champions to have made the following years final in the last ten years. The giant killing feat has been the high point for all other conquerors of the defending champions. 2013 - Dublin won but Donegal the defending champs beaten by Monaghan in Ulster and Mayo in QF 2012 - Donegal won but Dublin the defending champs beaten by Mayo in the SF 2011 - Dublin won and Cork the defending champs beaten by Kerry in Munster and Mayo in QF 2010 - Cork won and Kerry as defending champs lost in MF to Cork and Down in the QF2009 - Kerry won and Tyrone the defending champs lost to Cork in SF 2008 - Tyrone beat Kerry the defending Champs 2007 - Kerry retained title 2006 - Kerry won and Tyrone the defending champs lost to Derry in Ulster and Laois in Qualifiers 2005 - Tyrone beat Kerry the defending champs Kerry beat Cork after a replay in the Munster semi final and beat Limerick in the Munster final in 2010 didn't they?
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2014 15:12:11 GMT
This may have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum but are there any injury updates after Saturday? The main concerns would be James and Aidan. Were they simply cramped or what? The fact that I have heard nothing makes me think it was just severe cramping. Cramping I suspect. I think James even mentioned it himself in an interview. O'Mahony is some man. He put himself in harms way on numerous occasions and did a pile of dirty work. You could see he was exhausted late on when he went on a run down the wing only to turn back inside and offload the ball.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2014 15:16:05 GMT
Crowley -> Murphy Mahony -> McFadden Surely, right? Crowley did a good job on A O'Shea the last day, but did get caught out by one high ball which led to Mayo's second goal. Murphy is cuter than O'Shea so Crowley will have his work cut out.
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 1, 2014 15:31:07 GMT
Crowley -> Murphy Mahony -> McFadden Surely, right? Crowley did a good job on A O'Shea the last day, but did get caught out by one high ball which led to Mayo's second goal. Murphy is cuter than O'Shea so Crowley will have his work cut out. TBF you're talking about marking two of the best and most powerful footballers in the country, you're going to get caught out once or twice. JOD got 1-7 from play, won two penalties and set up a goal in two games and people are still saying Keith Higgins had two great games.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 1, 2014 15:34:12 GMT
Bryan Sheehan will probably need another few weeks to recuperate fully from his injury so its unlikely he'll be fit enough to start and play 70 minutes. Declan's situation is probably similar. Hopefully Stephen O Brien will be fit.
There will be massive competition for starting places over the next few weeks. Marc will be putting pressure on Shane Enright for a starting spot. Up front Declan and O Brien will be doing likewise with the 2 Geaneys and Donaghy probably under most pressure from them in terms of starting places.
The one thing that has been proven this year is that Fitzy is not afraid to ruffle some feathers and there are very few places guaranteed.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 1, 2014 15:46:02 GMT
Bryan Sheehan will probably need another few weeks to recuperate fully from his injury so its unlikely he'll be fit enough to start and play 70 minutes. Declan's situation is probably similar. Hopefully Stephen O Brien will be fit. There will be massive competition for starting places over the next few weeks. Marc will be putting pressure on Shane Enright for a starting spot. Up front Declan and O Brien will be doing likewise with the 2 Geaneys and Donaghy probably under most pressure from them in terms of starting places. The one thing that has been proven this year is that Fitzy is not afraid to ruffle some feathers and there are very few places guaranteed. I would think that Buckley is under most pressure. He was more or less anonymous.
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animal
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Post by animal on Sept 1, 2014 15:49:22 GMT
This may have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum but are there any injury updates after Saturday? The main concerns would be James and Aidan. Were they simply cramped or what? The fact that I have heard nothing makes me think it was just severe cramping. Cramping I suspect. I think James even mentioned it himself in an interview. O'Mahony is some man. He put himself in harms way on numerous occasions and did a pile of dirty work. You could see he was exhausted late on when he went on a run down the wing only to turn back inside and offload the ball. The way Mahony was carried off was real soldier off the battlefield stuff. Warrior. He had a mighty game on Saturday. Really put himself about. The fact that we are to play Donegal rather than Dublin makes things more complicated. Playing the Dubs would not entail as much concern for systems and tactics that need figuring out. It may well prove that Donaghy is not suited for this match. As brilliant as he was on Saturday I don't see how he could be as effective against Donegal. It's one for Eamonn to ponder. I'm not sure myself to be honest. Actually I can't recall us coming into a final with so many places up for grabs. We normally have a settled 13 or 14 with just aspot or two up for grabs. I suppose it is symptomatic of injuries to guys who were previously nailed down starters like Declan and Bryan but also numerous defensive conundrums and less experienced players staking claims. Who are those guaranteed their place? I would suggest: Kelly, Murphy, Crowley, Mahony, Fionn, David, Maher, Donnchadh, James and Paul Geaney. Feel free to argue. That's ten certainties in my book. Marc will probably start but since he was dropped from the start on Saturday he is no longer a certainty. You then have Marc, Killian, Enright competing for two places as I see it. That's presuming that despite impressing Pa Kilkenny and Mark Griffin will not start. Does Enright's showing last Saturday lose him his start? The forwards are even more interesting. Do you start Declan? Do we accommodate a fit Stephen O'Brien? Do Buckley and M Geaney keep their places - it's possible a fit Declan could replace one of them. Will they go with Donaghy again? I have Paul Geaney as a starter as I think they will stick with him even though Saturday was not his finest hour. These are all to be answered and like I said above I can't recall such uncertainty over the starting 15 going into a final. I actually see it as a very good thing. Provided Enright's performance was a blip you could say that form is not a problem in terms of selection and Eamonn will be able to choose the best fifteen men to win the game as he sees it. The competition for places is the toughest I've seen in Kerry in a long time. I expect the A versus B match the week before the final to be epic.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 1, 2014 16:03:20 GMT
I hope Kelly's confidence under the high ball isn't dented after his mistake. He simply jumped too early. Normally he is quite good under the dropping ball. Redeemed himself a bit later on when he punched another dangerous ball clear.
On whether to start Declan? It's a conundrum alright. He was poor in the first Mayo game when he came on but wasn't fit by all accounts. He was excellent against Cork in the MF when he started. He was excellent yesterday when he came on, winning some crucial ball and, IIRC, set up Lyne's last score after breaking two tackles. I think Buckley will be under pressure alright, not because he did anything particularly wrong the last day, but because he failed to really impact on the game. Tbf to him he took a serious knock to the head and wasn't right after it. He would be up against Karl Lacey and I'm not sure he would be up for that. Declan might be more suited to that role, but I guess it will depend on how he goes in training next week. Declan is fast heading to the end of his career (knees looked like they are being held together by tape) and I wouldn't bet against him having a massive game in the final.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Sept 1, 2014 16:16:10 GMT
I hope Kelly's confidence under the high ball isn't dented after his mistake. He simply jumped too early. Normally he is quite good under the dropping ball. Redeemed himself a bit later on when he punched another dangerous ball clear. On whether to start Declan? It's a conundrum alright. He was poor in the first Mayo game when he came on but wasn't fit by all accounts. He was excellent against Cork in the MF when he started. He was excellent yesterday when he came on, winning some crucial ball and, IIRC, set up Lyne's last score after breaking two tackles. I think Buckley will be under pressure alright, not because he did anything particularly wrong the last day, but because he failed to really impact on the game. Tbf to him he took a serious knock to the head and wasn't right after it. He would be up against Karl Lacey and I'm not sure he would be up for that. Declan might be more suited to that role, but I guess it will depend on how he goes in training next week. Declan is fast heading to the end of his career (knees looked like they are being held together by tape) and I wouldn't bet against him having a massive game in the final. Regarding that last bit ardfertnarrie, did you notice the tape was gone from Declans knees in extra-time....
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Post by ballynamona on Sept 1, 2014 16:31:05 GMT
I would be amazed if Enright started. I think Marc is certain to have won his place back, and I can't see any of the other backs being dropped.
Buckley would surely lose out if Declan O'Sullivan is fit. One thing I have always thought about Jonathan Lyne is that he has a great engine. Would be a huge call to start him, but for this game you never know. Sherwood's introduction in last year's semi shows that Eamon is not afraid to try the unexpected.
Stephen O'Brien should hopefully be back and I think I would start him ahead of Donaghy. Of course, all things being equal, Donaghy would not be dropped. But I fear if we start him, he would be double-marked and high ball in would be broken away.
The main thing for Kerry is surely to retain their shape. If we press up on Donegal too much they will exploit space.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 1, 2014 16:41:32 GMT
I would be amazed if Enright started. I think Marc is certain to have won his place back, and I can't see any of the other backs being dropped. Buckley would surely lose out if Declan O'Sullivan is fit. One thing I have always thought about Jonathan Lyne is that he has a great engine. Would be a huge call to start him, but for this game you never know. Sherwood's introduction in last year's semi shows that Eamon is not afraid to try the unexpected. Stephen O'Brien should hopefully be back and I think I would start him ahead of Donaghy. Of course, all things being equal, Donaghy would not be dropped. But I fear if we start him, he would be double-marked and high ball in would be broken away. The main thing for Kerry is surely to retain their shape. If we press up on Donegal too much they will exploit space. I wouldn't say it's a certainty. Enright was caught badly for the penalty but he has been solid enough this year to be fair to him. Let's not forget about Pa Kilkenny either. Marc had a torrid time v Donegal in 2012 too.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Sept 1, 2014 17:12:57 GMT
It shouldn't be forgotten that Enright was on who was by far Mayo's best forward and Mayo's main target. I would say Enright can still start, it'll depend on training.
It's more competition for places which is a great thing to have.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 1, 2014 17:35:31 GMT
Team selection is premature at this stage - need to see how players recover from the past two weekends intense efforts, how those nursing injuries progress and what knocks and niggles get picked up in training between now and then. At that point EF and Co will consider their game plan and then the team will be picked to implement that plan. Picking players on performances to date is only part of the equation - the team to implement the game plan will be the primary consideration. In the modern era I wonder if picking 15 in traditional positions is worth much - it has become so much of a team/panel effort that its a little unfair the focus on the starting 15 and only these guys parading around before the game. How long before a team is named randomly and the starting line up becomes known when they take the field.
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Post by donegalman on Sept 1, 2014 18:18:46 GMT
Congratulations fellow GAA supporters on your big win on sat v Mayo. I was in a hotel in kilkenny watching it, glued to the game with a few dozen others. It has set up a really interesting double header and one that noone would have predicted going into the season last may.
Here are a few of my thoughts after the weekend, my head is only clearing up a bit now, as I was dizzy all evening following our massive win against dublin yesterday.
It is an absolutely perfectly split 50/50 game. There is no point in second guessing form or who may or may not have the upper hand. Both teams have identical time to prepare for the final, with clean bills of health after the weekend. It could be a very low scoring game. We have hit form with our full forwards, and our runners all scoring freely now. This is only because of the amount of space that dublin allowed us at the back. We could have scored 2 more, so i am sure that the kerry back room team will be keeping their backs from going all out up the pitch. It will be interesting to see if Donachy is hit with the long ball into the full forward, or if kerry shoot from distance, or if there is running directly at the defensive wall. I suspect it will be a combination of all 3. Likewise when we break up the pitch, we may opt to hit long as we did in the second half rather than run, which worked very well indeed for us. I feel it will be much much more cagey.
One massive advantage kerry have this year going into the final is that they have been well groomed for a tough game after the 2 matches against mayo. There will be no bottling. I think that if kerry had gone into a final without a meaningful close game, it would have been the worst type of preparation possible.
It really is all to play for. I think we have a chance, but only a 50% one. I would not like to call it, despite the odds. I am really looking forward to the uniqueness of the minors contesting v the same team as well.
Enjoy the build up!!
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 1, 2014 18:54:26 GMT
Congratulations fellow GAA supporters on your big win on sat v Mayo. I was in a hotel in kilkenny watching it, glued to the game with a few dozen others. It has set up a really interesting double header and one that noone would have predicted going into the season last may. Here are a few of my thoughts after the weekend, my head is only clearing up a bit now, as I was dizzy all evening following our massive win against dublin yesterday. It is an absolutely perfectly split 50/50 game. There is no point in second guessing form or who may or may not have the upper hand. Both teams have identical time to prepare for the final, with clean bills of health after the weekend. It could be a very low scoring game. We have hit form with our full forwards, and our runners all scoring freely now. This is only because of the amount of space that dublin allowed us at the back. We could have scored 2 more, so i am sure that the kerry back room team will be keeping their backs from going all out up the pitch. It will be interesting to see if Donachy is hit with the long ball into the full forward, or if kerry shoot from distance, or if there is running directly at the defensive wall. I suspect it will be a combination of all 3. Likewise when we break up the pitch, we may opt to hit long as we did in the second half rather than run, which worked very well indeed for us. I feel it will be much much more cagey. One massive advantage kerry have this year going into the final is that they have been well groomed for a tough game after the 2 matches against mayo. There will be no bottling. I think that if kerry had gone into a final without a meaningful close game, it would have been the worst type of preparation possible. It really is all to play for. I think we have a chance, but only a 50% one. I would not like to call it, despite the odds. I am really looking forward to the uniqueness of the minors contesting v the same team as well. Enjoy the build up!! Donegals to win though based on their dismantling of Dublin yesterday and return to form?
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Post by donegalman on Sept 1, 2014 20:32:08 GMT
Donegal to win based on beating Dublin yesterday is reasonable. But and it is a big but, I think that Kerry or Mayo would have done the same number on them as we did yesterday. I cant prove this obviously but Dublin were an accident waiting to happen. They were so wide open at the back it was surreal. Mayo were a huge scalp. No mistake about it. Equally impressive to beat them as to beat the Dubs. IMO
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 1, 2014 21:18:07 GMT
Before yesterdays game it wouldn't be a given that either Kerry or Mayo would have broken down the Dublin team. Hindsight changes this perception now to some degree. Mayo don't have the cutting edge collection of forwards required at this level, Kerry are a team in transition, neither might have coped with everything Dubs Park in a final.
I'm a big fan of the brilliance and innovation JMcG has brought to Donegal in 2012 and now again in 2014. Their improvement from this years div 2. league final is staggering. Donegal changed the championship landscape yesterday and are now firmly in the driving seat to win this years championship. Their control of the controllables and their self discipline is hugely impressive. Jim will demand the perfect All-Ireland Final performance this time from his players. Everything about the performance of his players is positive.
That is a fascinating space to watch. Yesterday took the gloss of what Kerry achieved the previous evening, which by the way was epic from a young Kerry team in transition. Kerry would need to be sublime in their approach and execution of their game to overturn Donegal. IMO.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2014 23:54:14 GMT
It shouldn't be forgotten that Enright was on who was by far Mayo's best forward and Mayo's main target. I would say Enright can still start, it'll depend on training. It's more competition for places which is a great thing to have. I was behind Enright on the terrace. He started well. Ciallian OConnor pulled wildly when Paul Murphy was on the ground and Enright was in like a North Kerry man to sort out OConnor. Two yellows. Then a big fecking hail mary of a garryowen carries a bit in the wind and falls into OConnors lap. Peno. Then OShea fetched over PTG and thrundles through and offloads to OConnor while Enright gives OShea a reminder that running through like that can get a guy hurt. The HORSE would have approved. Enright gets subbed... 3 mins of mayhem and he is gone. Not easy being a corner back. By the way...Marc made the final pass for two of the final 3 points Kerry got. Marc was brilliant. Anyway.... don't write off Enright so quick.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2014 23:58:53 GMT
Over the past 4 years the team that beats the All Ireland champs have NOT gone on to win it.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 2, 2014 7:02:21 GMT
I can't see how some supporters deem Donegal to be better than us; are we behaving like the Dubs in believing Paddy Power? We have so many better footballers so now it's a case of getting stuck in and exploiting that advantage. Just as the Jim Gavin bus was brought to a halt so too will the Jim McGuinness one. We had plans in Darragh's time and he told us that sticking to them, even if you went down by 4 or 5 points was key; so we knew all about Belief, Focus, etc before McGuinness was even born.
Granted Donegal looked well v Dublin but didn't the Dubs fall away as they did with us on the fateful Monday bank holiday with Gooch finding goal after 37 seconds. An Armagh team bopping along at the bottom of things at the moment all but took them and sure Monaghan turned out to be so weak once the tempo increased a tad. Donegal are now more 'unbeatable' than Dublin and all I say to Paddy Power is keep 'em up there, the higher they go the louder the thud. Right after the Dublin game Jim McGuinness couldn't contain his excitement about taking us to the cleaners and that will be so great when it doesn't happen. After a storm, etc!
While the bookies were wrong with Dublin they may well be right with the initial odds on Donegal; Kerry will balance the books for them and we made a good start in beating the best team left that was Mayo.
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Post by Chinatown on Sept 2, 2014 7:03:12 GMT
Over the past 4 years the team that beats the All Ireland champs have NOT gone on to win it. I like my stats more than most like Kerry have played in 16 Semi finals in the 15 championships since 2000 but I put no mass sorry Mickmack in that stat, sample is too small.
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Post by Chinatown on Sept 2, 2014 7:17:09 GMT
Free taker if ever was important will be a key weapon in the armoury for this one. Tricky one with Bryan's fitness I suspect if he starts?
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Clogher
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Just waiting
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Post by Clogher on Sept 2, 2014 8:22:03 GMT
We play in green and gold on the 21st according to the official Twitter account. Will gladden the heart
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 2, 2014 8:53:37 GMT
Over the past 4 years the team that beats the All Ireland champs have NOT gone on to win it. I like my stats more than most like Kerry have played in 16 Semi finals in the 15 championships since 2000 but I put no mass sorry Mickmack in that stat, sample is too small. How about this stat/fact - The 1990's was the only decade since we started winning senior AI titles that we had to wait beyond the fourth year of a decade to win our first title in that decade.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 2, 2014 9:15:30 GMT
it's the first ever Kerry Donegal final ever
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Sept 2, 2014 9:34:23 GMT
I hope Kelly's confidence under the high ball isn't dented after his mistake. He simply jumped too early. Normally he is quite good under the dropping ball. Redeemed himself a bit later on when he punched another dangerous ball clear. On whether to start Declan? It's a conundrum alright. He was poor in the first Mayo game when he came on but wasn't fit by all accounts. He was excellent against Cork in the MF when he started. He was excellent yesterday when he came on, winning some crucial ball and, IIRC, set up Lyne's last score after breaking two tackles. I think Buckley will be under pressure alright, not because he did anything particularly wrong the last day, but because he failed to really impact on the game. Tbf to him he took a serious knock to the head and wasn't right after it. He would be up against Karl Lacey and I'm not sure he would be up for that. Declan might be more suited to that role, but I guess it will depend on how he goes in training next week. Declan is fast heading to the end of his career (knees looked like they are being held together by tape) and I wouldn't bet against him having a massive game in the final. Regarding that last bit ardfertnarrie, did you notice the tape was gone from Declans knees in extra-time.... No I did not spot that. But I was watching most of the last 20 mins through my fingers!
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MeathExile
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I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Sept 2, 2014 11:20:47 GMT
2 most important issues playing Donegal...target their main men, and DO NOT FALL BEHIND on the scoreboard.
As Tomas says, we need to hammer the hammer. Donegals hammers are undoubtedly Murphy and Lacey- if Kerry can do a job on these 2 I can see us pulling through. The question is who is best suited : Aidan for Murphy & Declan for Lacey? If not Aidan, I would put Griffin in as he has all the attributes to deal with Murphy. If Declan does not start, leave Buckley on Lacey.
McGuinness will also look at what he can target - I feel that if we play Enright in the FB line they will target him as he has been caught out under high ball a few times - Dublin last year, Mayo this year, and he had a nightmare against Derry under high ball in league match this year. If he plays, it needs to be in half back line. However, Marc is well ahead in the stakes after last week. Paul Murphy for McHugh - again keep the smaller guy out of the back line, and match Pauls mobility to McHughs.
Assuming we can get the match-ups right, this game will be won in the trenches, like the Mayo game. The teams that can win most of the 50:50 ball will win this one. It will be a tight, dogged game and Kerry will have to hold their shape for the full game. In order to do this, it is imperative that Kerry do not fall behind as this is when Donegal suck you in and you lose shape. So no goals conceded and defend like crazy for most of the game. The space will open for us in the second half if Donegal need to chase a few scores. Time then for Darren, O Brien, Lyne.
Donaghy should start - why leave one the strongest players on the bench, and hes the one guy who will win high ball for us up front. Final word on BJK - he needs to take players on and not go for the spectacular score every time. Win the odd free instead .....
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 2, 2014 11:53:56 GMT
Final word on BJK - he needs to take players on and not go for the spectacular score every time. Win the odd free instead ..... He did take his man on a few times Saturday, beat them and took the shot on. The shots were wides but this was a problem of sharpness (not confined to BJK) not of shot selection (someone said there was one occasion when he shouldn't have shot alright).
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