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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 25, 2014 8:40:07 GMT
Ardfertnarrie the substitution of Michael Geaney was a very strange decision. He seemed uninjured and was replaced by Brian Sheehan who is not fully fit; puzzling. Does anybody know if Stephen O'Brien was replaced because of injury? It looked like O'Brien was lame when he came off but no such explanation for Geaney being called ashore. None that I could see, through my fingers, anyway!
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 25, 2014 8:47:35 GMT
Terrible performance by the line yesterday and suggestions that Fitz was far superior to Horan tactically were shown to be wide of the mark yesterday.
Donaghy and Barry John should have been introduced either at half-time or very early in the second half. Barry John thrives when given space, the game was made for him as he showed when introduced. Mayo had to go all out in second half and our inside line were left man-to-man, again ideal for Donaghy. Buckley tired very early in the second half, which is fast becoming a trait of his.
Fitz and the selectors lacked courage yesterday in going for the kill. They are far too reactive instead of being proactive. I've no doubt Jim Gavin would not make a similar mistake.
We can't fault the players for the collapse, totally down to the line and partially due to Coldrick's inept performance. There are many poor refs out there but he's in the top 3 no doubt.
Still though, Kerry showed huge guts to come back and possibly should have won it.
Disappointed to see some posters attacking Peter Crowley again. He was one of our better performers. Marc was roasted ... again. Enright did well I thought. Moran was on for Man of the Match up to half-time.
Mayo are still very vulnerable under the high ball in the full-back line. Next Saturday will be intriguing.
P.S. Due to the Irish Rail strike, it seemed that every Tom, Dick and Harry was driving yesterday. It appears that most Kerry folk don't know how to drive on the motorway. The overtaking lane is not for the purpose of dawdling at 100km/hr or less lads. It was highly dangerous what some eejits were doing yesterday.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 25, 2014 8:52:14 GMT
Just some information for punters on next Saturday's replay in Limerick. With 52,000 attending yesterday's match there will be some clamour for tickets this week, I would recommend the open stand or terracing as the view for the Mackey stand at the Gaelic Grounds is not great That's putting it very mildly. The stand in Limerick is a hole.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 25, 2014 9:19:08 GMT
so.... just in case Dublin and Donegal draw next sunday they must keep Croker free on the 6th Sept for a replay..... so Mayo and Kerry must do it all again in 6 days. Tis all about Dublin. The rest of the counties are just supporting acts. Exactly, it's not really the American football that's the issue here. All the reasons/excuses given from the GAA are a massive contradiction and point only towards a Dublin bias. The GAA would rather Kerry v Mayo took place in Limerick rather than risk having to ask Dublin to play somewhere other than Croke Park! And that's all it is, a risk! May not even come to that, but the GAA want to avoid it at all costs. The excuse too about Mayo v Kerry going to a 2nd replay doesn't hold true either as an excuse because the same thing could possibly happen in other semi final.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 25, 2014 9:36:24 GMT
All this criticism of the ref being biased towards Mayo is a bit unfair I feel. Three of the biggest decisions of the game went in Kerrys favor: 1. The sending off of Keegan for a petulant kick at fresh air. 2. The penalty that should have been given to Mayo in the first half. 3. The decision not to black/red card Crowley for penalty, who of course played a huge hand in Kerrys fight back. We are also very lucky that refs aren't strict with the 4 steps rule as every time JOD is in possession he takes well in excess of 4 steps. Declan got away with it all his career and now James is doing the same. You should have just said nothing!! 1. "fresh air" = Johnny Buckley's leg? That's an interesting observation. 2. No that was clearly not a penalty. If this was basketball than yes it's a foul, but it ain't basketball!! 3. Not a black card, BUT yes Crowley was very lucky not see a red. Don't have the rule book to hand but I think by the letter of the law the referee would actually have been wrong to give him a black/red. This goes back to the poor introduction of the black card. Now what you fail to mention is how the referee applied AFL rules in the way he allowed Mayo defenders wrap two hands around Kerry attackers, yet at the other end applied NBA rules to Kerry defenders, giving Mayo some incredibly soft free's. It was a really poor display from the referee, if he can't get decisions on the tackle right, then he should at least get them wrong for both teams evenly.
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 25, 2014 9:41:07 GMT
What a game. Didn't disappoint in any way. Except for Coldrick.
The good stuff: James O'Donoghue is top quality. Shadowed by one of the best defenders in the game, still got 1.3. His run for the goal as the ball was on it's way to Donaghy says it all.
David Moran, exceptional performance, topped with 2 superb scores. Maher was also better than he has been recently. Donaghy is back!
Kerry were more economical with their use of the ball, seemed to take their scores easier than Mayo.
When you're building a team days like yesterday are invaluable and it will bring the younger players on a ton. Murphy, Geaneys, Fitzgerald, Crowley will all benefit hugely from white hot championship games. And they get to have another go at it next week.
The bad stuff: Marc O'Se had the proverbial 'mare. If his name wasn't Marc O'Se he wouldn't be starting next Saturday. A huge call for Eamonn Fitz this week. When Andy Moran is leaving you 5 yards behind you know the game is up.
How did Kerry contrive to let a 4 point and 1 man advantage slip in one half of football? I said here last week that Fitz was superior to Horan but questions must be asked about use of the free man. Difficult to see on TV exactly how the free man was utilised but it appeared that Kerry didn't alter their shape greatly, if at all.
For Declan O'Sullivan, see Marc O'Se above. Take out the Munster final this year, as Cork didn't turn up and the tactic with Declan dropping deep still had the element of surprise, and ask yourself when is the last time O'Sullivan has really influenced an important game. He was a great player, beautifully balanced, but he is making zero impact these days, injuries or not.
Sheehan is not fit, and 6 days to turn this issue around is not enough. I'm talking athletic fit. To be honest he has had weight problems for a few years now, and the old attitude of "I'll do what I like in the winter and work it off for the summer" won't do at IC level these days. I understand he has had injury problems which don't help but if he's really serious about it he should have the discipline to do what it takes to stay fit. Harsh words but that's the level of commitment required nowadays.
The other stuff: After the sending off, which was technically correct, Coldrick rode Kerry. Instances of 2 and 3 Mayo players choke tackling should result in a free to Kerry, not a free for overcarrying. What is a player supposed to do in that situation? Poor refereeing. Furthermore, he allowed Mayo away with "steps" on numerous occasions, McLaughlin and Aidan O'Shea the biggest culprits. Horan is still an ordinary manager, he'll get credit for the transformation from Half Time onwards but my take on this is that the players decided they were in the last chance saloon, threw off the tactical shackles and just went for everything, bald headed. And fair play to them for that.
Limerick next week... A red herring, the grass is still green, the posts will be in the same place, and there will be loads of people watching. I don't get Mayo's gripe, Kerry might get to play there once every few years, they're hardly living in the place. And they would have known pre yesterday's game what the arrangements were in the event of a draw. That was the time to raise the issue.
I note from an earlier post that it's all a conspiracy to keep Dublin in Croker! This is grassy knoll stuff!
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Post by sidelined on Aug 25, 2014 10:21:41 GMT
what an effect a red card can have on a game; kerry playing in fits and starts build up a lead, mayo struggling for anything, seemed dead on their feet keegan sees red [harsh even if techanically correct]. mayo come storming out in second half saying f... it all well go down fighting. ref wants to make amends goes 60/40 with 14 men. what to do with extra man, short kickouts to corner could be tackled, turnover, score?, or long and hope for break. kerry yesterday had halftime to decide and came up with well nothing. players have to be 100% fit now for pace of modern style football, if not they will be found out, as they were yesterday. for the replay: the fixing of the game in limerick is a joke, the gaa is for the promotion of gaelic games, not of american football. anyone remember the ban? we have come along way! money first for grab all assoc. fixture list planned well in advance they should have allowed for replays then. will donegal/dublin replay in clones? if you have a short back dont go to mackey stand or u will have to stand, it terrible!
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Post by sullyschoice on Aug 25, 2014 10:25:19 GMT
All this criticism of the ref being biased towards Mayo is a bit unfair I feel. Three of the biggest decisions of the game went in Kerrys favor: 1. The sending off of Keegan for a petulant kick at fresh air. 2. The penalty that should have been given to Mayo in the first half. 3. The decision not to black/red card Crowley for penalty, who of course played a huge hand in Kerrys fight back. We are also very lucky that refs aren't strict with the 4 steps rule as every time JOD is in possession he takes well in excess of 4 steps. Declan got away with it all his career and now James is doing the same. 1. Kicking or attempting to kick is a red card offence (minimal force). Therefore technically ref made correct decision. 2. I presume you are talking about Brian Kellys challenge on Alad Dillon. I dont think it was a penalty. Minimal contact and Dillon lost his footing.(some refs may have given it though) 3. For a black card you must trip an opponent with hand or foot or drag them to the ground. Nowhere does it say a badly timed shoulder into the back is a black card. It may have been a yellow, but not a black. It certainly was a penalty. I would suggest you count the steps of every player on the field and see if its more than James O Donoghue who takes excess steps.
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Post by seaniebo on Aug 25, 2014 10:46:13 GMT
An anti climax descended for all and sundry on the immediate final blast of the whistle. Mayo must have felt both joy and anguish at that very moment. They had it sown up. A stark reminder of Kerry v Dublin 2011. Game over for the Kingdom with a few minutes on the clock. Not so. Ditto today. It ain't over until it's over. The fat lady was clearing her throat when Donaghy plucked that ball from the sky to feed James O D. Game on. Momentum is a funny thing. Another few minutes there and we surely would have won it.
Many folks will write Kerry off ahead of the next chapter. Hard to argue with it. But argue we will.
Mayo were sublime in that second half. Absolutely sublime. Their soft underbelly has been replaced by a togetherness and refusal to give in. That said we ably assisted their revival by playing it literally into their hands. It's hard to know what to do with the spare man but surely if our kick outs were going long that spare man should have been out there for the breaking ball or to at least make a nuisance of himself. Instead we gave Mayo the space they craved.
The withdrawal of Stephen O Brien was a strange decision but to my eye he appeared to be hobbling so perhaps it was a forced substitution. I was disappointed with Michael Geaney. He got on a world of ball but panicked more often than not with it, coughed up possession and was indecisive. This game will have done him, amongst others, the world of good.
I was concerned by our lack of scoring power before the game. That first half blew my theory out of the water. Had Paul Geaney brought his shooting boots we may well have been making arrangements at half time for the 3rd week of September. He was a constant thorn in the Mayo rearguard. Pity his dominance wasn't reflected on the score board. During that half time period I sensed that a different Mayo would emerge. What unfolded was as much exhilarating as it was surprising. Exhilarating stuff from both sides. Surprise at the sheer will Mayo brought to the table. They were ferocious for the best part of 30 minutes of that second half.
Galvanised they were and took us on direct. They are the old dogs now on familiar road and it was attack after attack. To go from 5 points down to 5 points up was nothing short of a miracle.
What Kerry served up in the last few minutes was also miraculous. Our subs, save for Declan O Sullivan and Bryan Sheehan, were outstanding. The aforementioned clearly weren't fit. It was tough to watch Declan in particular clearly struggle throughout.
For all the criticism of Marc O Se, we can count our blessings he made that foray into attack in the dying seconds. A better through ball to him at that point would have certainly seen his name on the scoreboard for the equaliser. Instead he showed fierce composure to recycle the ball and fair play to Mr O Leary for keeping the dream alive.
I said beforehand that we needed Buckley and Moran to really stand up. By god they did. I can't recall Buckley playing as well in the green and gold. Granted his performance dipped with others but he kept at it. As did Moran. Whatever will be said about the Mayo revival, Moran kept it going to the bittersweet end. It was his missile that paved the way for our own revival. Fair play to you Mr Moran.
Now what? Was that a last sting of a dying wasp for Mayo or just a sample of what's to come if they play with the shackles off?? Will Kerry's youthful figures learn more from this and up the ante next Saturday evening? Which team will recover most quickly? For all that happened yesterday we probably are still none the wiser as to who will have another day out.
My heart says Kerry. My head is off duty. If Mayo are victorious one thing is for sure, they'll have earned it. While there's life there's hope. And by god we're alive!!
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Post by ballybunion on Aug 25, 2014 11:17:07 GMT
Well Limerick will not hold 52k.I think it hold 40+ thousand.I expect due to proximity that there will be much more in attendance from Kerry but then the neutrals that were in Croker will not be there.It will be a full house and tickets may be difficult.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 25, 2014 11:55:35 GMT
What a crazy day in Croke Park. At half time we were well in control, a man up and 4 points to the good. We were in control around the middle, which was a pleasant surprise. I thought we would drive on and win it well. However, Mayo went for it in a big way, they had nothing to lose and were brave and ferocious in their approach, a polar opposite of their first half template. Colm Boyle, Aidan O Shea, Cillian O Connor and Donie Vaughan played some outstanding stuff. They pulled 5 clear with 5 to go. Kerry, who backed off Mayo and literally invited them on for much of the second half, then pushed up on Mayo when the game was slipping away from us. The result? 1-2 in 5 minutes of football. Declan and Bryan were a pale shadow of their real selves and didn't contribute as well as they normally do. Star, what a man, he really left his mark on Croke Park as he has done many times in the past, two sublime catches = 1-1. Kieran O Leary showed magairlí to slot over a pressure kick to equalise and BJK won a kick out he never should have. Great to see those lads make an impact on the game. It will do their confidence the world of good. David Moran had a great game and his passing and long range shooting were a pleasure to watch. The sending off of Lee Keegan was nothing short of a joke. It happened just in front of us and we looked on in disbelief as Mr Coldrick flashed the red card. After the game all the talk was of how brilliant Mayo were in that second half. Yes they were excellent, at times, however, I thought they were given a number of frees of the handy variety. Also, regardless of when and where the replay occurs, Mayo will still find it hard to put us away. I had a look at my programme after and according to my calculations we scored 1-15 from play and Mayo scored 0-10 from play. This wasn't mentioned by anyone when analysing the game afterwards. A poster mentioned Kelly's kick outs, I was a bit disappointed with a few of them, right down on top of Aidan O Shea, when he had Enright & Crowley available. I think it was one of Marc's poorest games in the kerry jersey that he has worn with such distinction. Peter Crowley really had a rush of blood to the head for the penalty. One piece of impetuosity nearly cost us the game. I thought David Coldrick was pathetic, he got a lot of calls wrong, not good enough from an alleged top referee. We live to fight another day, we are still in the championship, we will bring it to them again the next day. Looking forward to it in a big way. Agree with most of that post but explain to me how you think the red card was a joke? Lee Keegan kicked an opponent. It was as obvious as the day is long. The rules state that kicking or attempting to kick an opponent is a red card offence. Coldrick was poor but that call was spot on.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 25, 2014 11:58:39 GMT
Another thing that amazes me at games, and even on this forum, is the amount of people that havnt a clue of the rules. A black or red card for Crowley for the penalty being called for by one poster being the latest example.
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bannerman
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Post by bannerman on Aug 25, 2014 12:09:24 GMT
does anyone know are RTE showing replay. they never mentioned it on tv last night Sky are advertising it already
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 25, 2014 12:23:06 GMT
Another thing that amazes me at games, and even on this forum, is the amount of people that havnt a clue of the rules. A black or red card for Crowley for the penalty being called for by one poster being the latest example. I had the same conversation with a Mayo supporter yesterday leaving CrokePark- lots of "fans" haven't a clue- every indiscretion now , people are looking for a card to be flashed- hard to blame people though with the level of incompetency being shown by referees! I see another great Meath man, Cormac Reilly has been appointed for Sat evening- any hope Barry Kelly or some of the other hurling refs would do a few football games? The official GAA website confirms that RTE are covering the game live.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Aug 25, 2014 12:27:56 GMT
Tickets on sale on ticktes.ie already. Open stand and terraces only.
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Post by glengael on Aug 25, 2014 12:31:00 GMT
Due to the Irish Rail strike, it seemed that every Tom, Dick and Harry was driving yesterday. It appears that most Kerry folk don't know how to drive on the motorway. The overtaking lane is not for the purpose of dawdling at 100km/hr or less lads. It was highly dangerous what some eejits were doing yesterday.
Whilst I agree with most of your post on the match Jigz84, I must take exception to that comment. Yes there may have been some Kerry drivers who behaved like that. But not every motorist on the motorway yesterday (or indeed driving a car with a Kerry reg) was from Kerry or had anything to do with the match at all. The rail strike discommoded very many people across the country and continues to do so today.
Secondly, I've had travel that motorway quite a bit over the last few months and I can assure you that there are plenty of well qualified eejits hogging the "fast" lane even on non-GAA match days.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Aug 25, 2014 12:34:28 GMT
Due to the Irish Rail strike, it seemed that every Tom, Dick and Harry was driving yesterday. It appears that most Kerry folk don't know how to drive on the motorway. The overtaking lane is not for the purpose of dawdling at 100km/hr or less lads. It was highly dangerous what some eejits were doing yesterday.
Whilst I agree with most of your post on the match Jigz84, I must take exception to that comment. Yes there may have been some Kerry drivers who behaved like that. But not every motorist on the motorway yesterday (or indeed driving a car with a Kerry reg) was from Kerry or had anything to do with the match at all. The rail strike discommoded very many people across the country and continues to do so today. Secondly, I've had travel that motorway quite a bit over the last few months and I can assure you that there are plenty of well qualified eejits hogging the "fast" lane even on non-GAA match days. Point taken but I think we can safely say that most of the traffic heading out of Dublin was bound for Kerry. Plus the same thing was happening in the morning on the way up. Just a pet hate of mine. And you are right, there are plenty doing the same every day of the week.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 25, 2014 12:35:18 GMT
does anyone know are RTE showing replay. they never mentioned it on tv last night Sky are advertising it already Both stations are showing it, but it seems RTE don't want the viewers!!!
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bannerman
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" Come it the hour Come it the Man"
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Post by bannerman on Aug 25, 2014 12:38:44 GMT
Thanks Seamo, where you see this???
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 25, 2014 12:40:38 GMT
Another thing that amazes me at games, and even on this forum, is the amount of people that havnt a clue of the rules. A black or red card for Crowley for the penalty being called for by one poster being the latest example. I had the same conversation with a Mayo supporter yesterday leaving CrokePark- lots of "fans" haven't a clue- every indiscretion now , people are looking for a card to be flashed- hard to blame people though with the level of incompetency being shown by referees! I see another great Meath man, Cormac Reilly has been appointed for Sat evening- any hope Barry Kelly or some of the other hurling refs would do a few football games? The official GAA website confirms that RTE are covering the game live. Your not serious? Couldn't write this stuff it's so funny. There was a Mayo fella on with Pat Kenny earlier and he pointed out that Coldrick was from Meath + 1996 AI final!!!! Started on about "that part of the country" and rubbish like that! Liam Mchale was at it aswell last week, still defending the indefensible. 18 years on and they still can't accept acting like a thug = red card! Another Meath ref will drive them nuts altogether!
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 25, 2014 12:42:21 GMT
Thanks Seamo, where you see this??? ah heard it on the radio I think, possibly Kerry today. I did wonder though last night when Des refused to give any kind of a mention that they would actually show the match!!
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Post by glengael on Aug 25, 2014 12:43:30 GMT
Yes, I appreciate your experience Jigz84,( Lord, we're fierce amicable here today!).
Once I left the motorway at Mitchelstown last night, the standard of driving didn't improve that much either.
Listening to some national radio stations last night, one could be forgiven for thinking that Kerry and Donegal are mere inconveniences to the accepted (cliche alert!) narrative of the great Dublin/Mayo All-Ireland.
I await veteran's report with interest.
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Aug 25, 2014 12:59:26 GMT
A heart stopping match to say the least. With 5 minutes left I wasn't too hopeful to be quite honest, but fair play to the lads, they stood up and were counted when it was needed. As I remarked to a fellow Kerry supporter as I left the Hill, 'the Star isn't dead yet'. He made an immense contribution and the sight of him plucking the ball from the skies before winning a free kick with minutes left, was one of the highlights of the game for me. Likewise the quick speed of thought to pluck yet another high ball from the skies and speedily transfer to JOD to goal it was breath taking. Kerry frustrated me at times in the second half. Surely with an extra man we could have played the wings more from kick outs, but time after time it was a long, hopeful kick out which was bread and butter to the big men of Mayo's midfield. At one stage I saw two Kerry lads at the right side of the pitch with hands held in the air looking for the ball from Kelly, but it was played down the middle again. The players need to be more in tune with each other and the free men need to shout their bloody heads off to leave Kelly know that they are free. At times it seemed that Mayo had the extra man as they marauded through the midfield at pace. Marc and Crowley seemed to have words with one another after another of these rampaging runs ran up another point for Mayo. Indeed, at times it seems that there were massive break downs in communications among the Kerry lads, which must be of major concern all round and this will have to be addressed before next Saturday's replay. Mayo fans were very confident of the win yesterday and their second half display certainly justified that confidence, so great credit to the Kerry lads for coming back from the dead against a team who were at increasingly full pace throughout the 2nd half. I wonder, will Mayo's failure to kill off the tie when Kerry were there for the taking, play heavy on the Mayo lads' minds come next Saturday? A lot of improvement needed for the return, but I just have the feeling that lessons learned yesterday may give Kerry the slightest of advantages next Saturday and I can't wait for what promises to be another feast of high level football from two very good teams.
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 25, 2014 13:08:05 GMT
Another thing that amazes me at games, and even on this forum, is the amount of people that havnt a clue of the rules. A black or red card for Crowley for the penalty being called for by one poster being the latest example. It's truly beyond belief. The amount of * you hear along the lines of "Professional foul - that's a straight red" and "he got the ball before he got the man" would leave you thus:
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 25, 2014 13:14:11 GMT
Heard someone say yesterday that if Cluxton was in goals for Kerry in the second half we would have won by seven or eight points. Mayo fan beside me turned to me half way through the second half and said "What is actually wrong with your goalkeeper?".
The kickouts in the second half really ought to have lost us the game. Kelly has had a decent year but will need to look hard at the tape this week and figure out where he went wrong.
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Post by onlykerry on Aug 25, 2014 13:20:24 GMT
Interesting that Kerry had 12 different scorers yesterday compared to six for Mayo. Also from play Kerry outscored Mayo 1-14 to 0-11. Management/Players need to see if we can reduce the place ball opportunities as O Connor is fairly lethal when given the opportunity. Ref did give Mayo some handy ones and seemed to think Kerry with the extra man should not need them. Our rules experts might let me know the status on charging as an offence and wrapping arms around a player in a tackle - both of which Mayo seemed to be allowed do.
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Post by ballybunion on Aug 25, 2014 13:54:09 GMT
The ref was ok in the first until the red card instance.In the second half he turned against us.On the frees we never got our due 65/35 against us to make up for the red card. John O Keeffe made a few good points on the value of Star and I would agree with him but I also would not start him.With 20/25 minutes to go his introduction will cause consternation.In Cusack Park Ennis v Clare coming towards the end we were still in some trouble,2 high balls came into Kerry goalmouth.Star caught the first and it was pulled illegally from him but no free but we survived that attack.Another high ball came in Star caught it cleanly and cleared it.I think Star has a huge part to play in Kerry's progress and future.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 25, 2014 13:58:37 GMT
All I want to say is that "Tom" Carr is some w**ker.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 25, 2014 14:35:06 GMT
What did he say this time?
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kaiser
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Post by kaiser on Aug 25, 2014 14:58:32 GMT
What did he say this time? I heard the commentary on TSG last night. When we dispossessed the Mayo defender late on to allow JOD's chance which hit the post, he shouted over the commentator, "that's a foul...a foul" when Donnaghy knocked the ball forward. He's just a terrible guy to have there also, monotone and boring with little in the way of decent analysis to offer.
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