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Post by buck02 on Jul 29, 2014 19:30:57 GMT
Mikey Geaney for Steven O Brien (quad injury) only change from the Cork game.
Sheehan named midfield, Johnny on the 40.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 19:32:34 GMT
Mikey Geaney in for Stephen O'Brien See I was right about O'Brien Nah just kidding he has a muscle sprain
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 19:33:43 GMT
In relation to the issue of the importance of a free taker and whether including a free taker it's worth having a look at a bit that crops up on the Don't Foul blog in relation to how Kerry performed (excluding Cooper) when it came to deadball situations over 12 championship matches. dontfoul.wordpress.com/2014/02/19/the-importance-of-the-gooch/Given that a serious chunk of these would have been Sheehan attempts I think we have to question how valueable he is - even the last day he missed a very kickable free from pretty much straight in front of the posts. People might remember the effort from the sideline from a few years but if he'd missed that one and converted the one straight in front of the posts the scoreline would have been the same. People remember the odd/occasional spectacular effort and overlook the mundane efforts. Worth remembering that Cork for instance shot 7 from 7 on deadballs compared to Kerry's 5 from 7. Somewhat on the basis of this,I think it looks like Sheehan's recent form in terms of deadballs has to be called into question, especially given the fact that if he doesn't start the odds are high that both Moran and Buckley will be on the pitch as well as JOD for the closer in ones. Sure O'Brien & Sheehan had decent games against Cork but we need to remember this was pretty much one of the worst performances by Cork against us in half a century or so. If you win an inter-county game by 12 points against a side giving a 6 or 7 out of 10 performance it's one thing - winning by 12 points when the opposing team give a 1 or 2 out of 10 performance it's a whole different kettle of fish, and performances have to be marked down accordingly. If people still think the result in the Kerry-Cork game was wholly down to excellent play on our side, have a look at the stats from the Sligo game and see how there wasn't a whole lot of difference between those 2 sides especially in the area of winning kickouts dontfoul.wordpress.com/ (expect Horan's boys to go to town on Cork in this area when they meet, as the Mayo forwards won't be allowing O'Halloran take short ones the way the naive Sligo forwards did) Pretty much everyone regarded this game as a massive improvement by Cork but they still only managed to beat a very weak Sligo by 7 points,conceding 1-11 to them. [Sligo scored 0-10 against both Wicklow and Limerick and 0-11 against Galway by way of a comparison - if anyone is having any notions of what Cork achieved in beating Sligo] To put it another way Sligo's attack had their best day out in the championship this year against Cork, despite the fact that the other 3 teams they played were Wicklow, Limerick and Galway -3 teams of differing levels but all would be "rated" below Cork and none of them being known as especially effective defences (and this was with Cork playing 2 sweepers and Sligo forwards being in very poor form) Basically I think in the longer-term if we are to have a chance at Sam we need to get more players in better form - the contribution from our bench this year between league and championship has been feeble, especially when you compare it to the sort of scores Dublin's bench have been racking up. Worth remembering that last year in the Dublin game their subs scored 2-3 while our subs scored zip. Even if it's not Dublin we need our bench players to do more when they come on. Selecting Darran & Buckley/Moran ahead of O'Brien & Sheehan would be marginal calls, but I could see both having a decent shot of making an impact off the bench later in the game when Galway's defenders and midfielders are tired and there will likely be more space and time for the two of them to work. Think of it as selecting some best combination of players from the squad over the 70+ minutes. Anyone we'll know some enough and it's no harm to consider a few different possibilities. I take issue with so much of what you have side, particularly your free kick stat in Cork game, Cork 7/7 Kerry 5/7, wow what a gargantuan difference!!!!! Taking what I put in bold, are you then calling into question the performances of all the Kerry players, or just stopping at O Brien and Sheehan because it suits your argument? Because Declan played against what "was pretty much one of the worst performances by Cork against us in half a century or so", as did JOD, Donnacha, Maher etc. Someone mentioned here that it isn't lunacy to suggest Buckley and Moran etc start ahead of Sheehan; actually it is lunacy, because prior to the Cork game many here were ready to retire Buckley, now after one impressive game he's a must have in the starting line up!! I hope Eamon goes with the same team, free's aside Sheehan is a proven ball winner @ midfield plus with Gooch gone, he's now our best foot passer. Would like to see Declan played closer to goal at stages; let Galway focus on JOD if they like, more space for O Brien to torch defenders in the wide open spaces of Croker. Crowley, Moran and Darren coming of the bench are quality subs to be brining on.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 19:36:36 GMT
Mikey Geaney for Steven O Brien (quad injury) only change from the Cork game. Sheehan named midfield, Johnny on the 40. That's a kick in the guts for Darren, looks like Eamon see's him as our own kevin mcmanamon
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 19:39:16 GMT
Sh!t..here's hoping there'll be a semi final to witness that!!!
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 19:40:01 GMT
Eamonn OUT !!!!!
Nah - It's hard to disagree with the selection - in spite of my ramblings I have faith in Eamonn and the team to have made the right selection;
horrible for O'Brien - Anyone know what sort of time-frame a quad muscle injury is likely to involve?
So now we can ponder about how will the team by shuffled compared to the last day?
Also there are at least 2 more of I know of that could be described as being additional panel members, bit surprised not to see them listed there.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 19:54:55 GMT
I take issue with so much of what you have side, particularly your free kick stat in Cork game, Cork 7/7 Kerry 5/7, wow what a gargantuan difference!!!!! When both the Kerry misses were pretty much right in front of the posts it's more of a pointer in the direction of sloppiness. it would be different if the frees missed were on the sideline like the one Sheehan got but a failure to convert 2 very kickable frees has to be a concern, especially when people are arguing that having Sheehan on the pitch will mean that any free in the opposition's 65 will be punished. Taking what I put in bold, are you then calling into question the performances of all the Kerry players, or just stopping at O Brien and Sheehan because it suits your argument? Because Declan played against what "was pretty much one of the worst performances by Cork against us in half a century or so", as did JOD, Donnacha, Maher etc. Yes I am calling into question every player's performance - similar to if they were playing a team of U14s and only won by 20 points. If the opposition are utterly rubbish, you have to mark your own performance down. I had focused on O'Brien and Sheehan as I think both of those could potentially be very effective coming off the subs bench as well as giving us the opportunity to do other players to find some form. Someone mentioned here that it isn't lunacy to suggest Buckley and Moran etc start ahead of Sheehan; actually it is lunacy, because prior to the Cork game many here were ready to retire Buckley, now after one impressive game he's a must have in the starting line up!! Some may have been willing to retire Buckley - I assure you I wasnt one of them, I also wasnt saying he was a must have in the starting line up. I was discussing whether it would have some sort of upside. Given the management team were willing to start Moran 6 weeks ago when he could hardly move against Clare, I thought he had a possibility of starting if Eamonn wanted to try something different/out-of-the-box/mix things up. I hope Eamon goes with the same team, free's aside Sheehan is a proven ball winner @ midfield plus with Gooch gone, he's now our best foot passer. Would like to see Declan played closer to goal at stages; let Galway focus on JOD if they like, more space for O Brien to torch defenders in the wide open spaces of Croker. Crowley, Moran and Darren coming of the bench are quality subs to be brining on. I agree with you about Declan closer to goal as it happens - Galway will definitely have a plan for him based on what he did the last day - do the same thing again and they can simply implement that plan ; change it up and it's makes things much harder for them.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 19:58:17 GMT
Mikey Geaney for Steven O Brien (quad injury) only change from the Cork game. Sheehan named midfield, Johnny on the 40. That's a kick in the guts for Darren, looks like Eamon see's him as our own kevin mcmanamon I think a key issue with Darran is managing his fitness/health. He wasn't fully fit at any stage last season and I wonder if management have decided to save his minutes for later in the season. Without knowledge of his fitness it's very hard, almost impossible to know what's going on.
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Post by veteran on Jul 29, 2014 20:27:11 GMT
I am terribly disappointed that Stephen O'Brien is unable to play. On the basis of what I have seen of him he is a significant loss, particularly his streak lightning pace. I have seen Mickey Geaney play well for Dingle but rarely for Kerry. He was particularly poor against Clare. Nevertheless, he may be showing good form on training. The hope is he will replicate that next Sunday.
Even when Bryan Sheehan was displaying patchy form in general play I have always argued for his inclusion because of his ability to plonk them over from all distances. Like everybody else, his return is not 100%. Even professional rugby players do not have that success rate, not to mention professional soccer players as we witnessed in the world cup. If you just include a free taker who is merely proficient from what we will call the orthodox range then the opposition can foul, more or less, with impunity in more remote areas of the field. I remember one match, perhaps against Meath in the semifinal a few years ago, when we got two or three forty fives. Our efforts at converting them were juvenile. I thing Darran may have been one of the suspects involved. Another instance, this time close in frees failure, was against Antrim in Tullamore in 2009. Anybody who was at that match will remember that we were in dire straits in the first half. Our problems were compounded by our inability to convert easy frees. On that occasion it was Declan and Sean O'Sullvan who were the culprits.
Now somebody quoted statistics regarding frees converted in the Cork game - five out of seven. If my memory is not failing , one of those failures was due to JO'D. Would that mean Bryan's conversion rate was five out of six? How bad! One of the most important scores that day was Bryan's 45 in the second half. At that stage, Cork were on a little roll, perhaps more than a little, and had reduced our lead to five points. The 45 conversion broke the back of Cork's revival. Of course, the outlandish sideline kick was of no importance from the scoreboard standpoint. But if you are interested in the aesthetics of the game then that effort was a fitting slan abhaile.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 20:43:01 GMT
I take issue with so much of what you have side, particularly your free kick stat in Cork game, Cork 7/7 Kerry 5/7, wow what a gargantuan difference!!!!! When both the Kerry misses were pretty much right in front of the posts it's more of a pointer in the direction of sloppiness. it would be different if the frees missed were on the sideline like the one Sheehan got but a failure to convert 2 very kickable frees has to be a concern, especially when people are arguing that having Sheehan on the pitch will mean that any free in the opposition's 65 will be punished. Taking what I put in bold, are you then calling into question the performances of all the Kerry players, or just stopping at O Brien and Sheehan because it suits your argument? Because Declan played against what "was pretty much one of the worst performances by Cork against us in half a century or so", as did JOD, Donnacha, Maher etc. Yes I am calling into question every player's performance - similar to if they were playing a team of U14s and only won by 20 points. If the opposition are utterly rubbish, you have to mark your own performance down. I had focused on O'Brien and Sheehan as I think both of those could potentially be very effective coming off the subs bench as well as giving us the opportunity to do other players to find some form. Someone mentioned here that it isn't lunacy to suggest Buckley and Moran etc start ahead of Sheehan; actually it is lunacy, because prior to the Cork game many here were ready to retire Buckley, now after one impressive game he's a must have in the starting line up!! Some may have been willing to retire Buckley - I assure you I wasnt one of them, I also wasnt saying he was a must have in the starting line up. I was discussing whether it would have some sort of upside. Given the management team were willing to start Moran 6 weeks ago when he could hardly move against Clare, I thought he had a possibility of starting if Eamonn wanted to try something different/out-of-the-box/mix things up. I hope Eamon goes with the same team, free's aside Sheehan is a proven ball winner @ midfield plus with Gooch gone, he's now our best foot passer. Would like to see Declan played closer to goal at stages; let Galway focus on JOD if they like, more space for O Brien to torch defenders in the wide open spaces of Croker. Crowley, Moran and Darren coming of the bench are quality subs to be brining on. I agree with you about Declan closer to goal as it happens - Galway will definitely have a plan for him based on what he did the last day - do the same thing again and they can simply implement that plan ; change it up and it's makes things much harder for them. #On the free's, yes it's sloppiness exactly, but Brian will than come along and slot a harder one/similar one despite missing. No too free's are the same, different points in a game bring different pressure's and the harder the free/more pressure the better he is. #You didn't call into question every players performance though, because you used that argument only against those 2 players, which is completely unfair on them. #I have no doubt you have supported Buckley here, I for one think that he just needed at times a break given how much football he was playing with Crokes, but also he was someone who could do with a decent pre-season whereby he could improve his endurance. #I would rather see Darren coming off the bench than O Brien. Both bring pace, but Darren's experience in the final ~20 minutes would be hugely beneficial. Plus would be harsh on a guy to drop him now that we get to Croke Park given that he's done nothing else aside from what has been asked of him sofar. Alas most of this is irrelevant now given the team has been named!!! Hopefully we see a few new ideas the next day and guys other than Declan and JOD continue to impress, avoiding us becoming too predictable.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 29, 2014 20:55:03 GMT
To be honest I am disappointed that Mikey Geaney is starting. I think he has been poor in the league and very poor against Clare. I suppose with all the talk of our string bench in reality do we have great cover in the forwards. If fit I would have like to see Moran in the half forward line. People are saying Darran is being managed after his injury and maybe the same is true for Moran.
Kieran O'Leary must have really fallen down the pecking order. Maybe Lyne was worth a look?
That said I hope Mikey Geaney proves me wrong and has a great game.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 29, 2014 21:24:09 GMT
Michael Geaney must be doing well in training and hopefully he'll bring that to Croke Park on Sunday. It'll be interesting to see the match-ups and the tactical approach. Tuned-in from the throw-in to the final whistle again and all should be well.....
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 21:30:10 GMT
I suppose with all the talk of our strong bench in reality do we have great cover in the forwards. We made 53 subs in 9 games so far this season and the subs have contributed a grand total of 5 points,1 of which was a free. Our bench has contributed 1 point in the 2 championship games so far. As a comparison Dublin's bench has contributed 2-21 in their 3 championship games this season with only 5 of that total coming from frees. Dublin have a strong bench - Kerry do not.
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Post by Deise Exile on Jul 29, 2014 21:54:07 GMT
For all the hyperbole surrounding Dublin Kerry have gifted them the two All Ireland's they've won. Yes they have a strong panel but let's not get carried away. I think Donegal could upset them yet. As for Sunday this is a great chance for Mike Geaney. And on the subject of panels and benches, there's a nice bit of experience in Darren, Star and Moran on the bench to change a game
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 29, 2014 22:05:31 GMT
With due respect a lot of comments here are 'soft' and maybe that's all that's intended. Few if any of us have seen a single training session nor are we close to what's going on from the outside, let alone from the inside. Of course Geaney mightn't appear to be the logical choice from what little we know and on top of that there is more expertise in our management team than there is in all the GAA Forums ar fud an domhain.
All we can do is get behind our great team, wish them well and pray they get just rewards for their enormous efforts. All we have to do is sit back and enjoy watching them and hope they will meet out 'demands'. They owe us nothing and we are eternally indebted to how they always represent us, even serve us.
Good luck to Eamonn too and we know you have done your double best and we will be with you through thick and thin.
We are the sixteenth man, only we can determine how we play and maybe we could be the difference?
Slán go foil a chairde Ó Contae an Chiarraí
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Jul 29, 2014 22:06:47 GMT
Sorry to be negative here folks but this does show how weak our bench is.
Outside of Darren there is little that would strike fear into any side.
Expect us to beat Galway handy after a decent show by the Connaught men.
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Post by dontfoul on Jul 29, 2014 23:31:07 GMT
For those interested the Galway - Tipperary numbers are here linkGalway racked up a large score but the vast majority of their shots were taken with no pressure applied whilst unusually the have a liking for the left hand side of the pitch
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animal
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Post by animal on Jul 30, 2014 8:29:41 GMT
One must assume that Mikey Geaney is doing well in training. If he does not perform on Sunday I suspect he won't be given another chance this year. I sincerely hope that he plays a blinder. It is horrendous luck for young O'Brien. He had a fine Munster Final and I was looking forward to his further progression. I'd have no issues with the rest of the team. The positional switches are a moot point really as match-ups , formations, and tactics will determine true positions on the field. I heard on the radio last night that Declan is nursing a knee injury. Hopefully he is fully recovered.
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Post by elephant on Jul 30, 2014 9:13:30 GMT
All this talk of a great bench really does annoy me. I don't know how people can say that Moran is as good as they say. I mean what evidence is there? He has been through some horrific injuries no doubt but since his return what are people basing his qualities on? 35 minutes in a league game against Tyrone when the game was won? He played against Cavan last year, did fine, came on against dubs, can't say much about that really but if he was as good as everyone says why he not come on earlier. Come on lads get a grip, until he actually puts in a decent performance in a big game I don't think we can rate him that highly. As for Donoghy, when is the last decent game he played? Darren? I think we all know that if Darren was playing well he would start... Crowley on the bench again does not say much for his form either... I saw Mikey Geaney against Clare and he looked lost on the pitch so I can't understand that call either. I hope I'm wrong but still so many questions to be answered this year, the idea of having a strong bench just doesn't wash and until a lot of those guys playing put on a decent show in the big games I really can't judge them on one outing against a horrendous cork performance.
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KY50
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Post by KY50 on Jul 30, 2014 11:00:44 GMT
Folks, lets just get behind the team and support them. If we pass this test our bench may be stronger in August as there are a number of players due back fom injury, hopefully Stephen will be among them
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Post by lár na páirce on Jul 30, 2014 11:20:14 GMT
I have seen Mikey Geaney numerous times at club level tearing it up,Hoping to see him finally deliver it in a Kerry jersey Sunday.His chemistry with Paul could be a HUGE advantage.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 30, 2014 11:24:11 GMT
A decent Kerry team, looking forward to the trip to Croke Park at the weekend. Aidan must be going well to be still keeping Mark Griffin out of the team. Delighted to see JB on the half forward line, he can contribute greatly to Kerry playing across this line of the team rather than at midfield. While it will be disappointing for Stephen O'Brien to miss the game through injury he looks like a player with the attitude to bounce back again once recovered. A big opportunity for Mikey Geaney to stake a claim for a place, the greater the competition the better amongst the newer players.
Thankfully the selectors/management don't have the same obsession for culling Sheehan which seems to be prevalent on these boards!!!.
Kerry's most valuable player at the moment.
It is difficult to see anything other than a Kerry win at the weekend.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jul 30, 2014 21:01:17 GMT
People talking up Galway all over the place but, I wouldn't be so sure. They will probably play a sweeper against Kerry as everyone has said they should do. They did the same again Tipp & were knifed open at times. You can have all the men you want behind the ball but if they are only imitating statues once they get back into defence they are neither use nor ornament.
Overall we should have he edge around the middle third. Our physical strength alone in this section is a big plus. Mahony, Maher, Sheehan, Donnachdha, Buckley & Mikey Geaney are all well able to handle themselves and Killian is experienced enough at this level.
Galway playing a defensive game will probably play into our hands. We can put a lot of physical pressure on them and capatilize on whatever errors we can force. With James and Dave Geaney sniping around the goals picking off scores.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 30, 2014 21:12:29 GMT
Yes. Some players, especially Bryan Sheehan, gets an inordinate amount of stick on here. Others, like Marc can screw up spectacularly and not a peep about it.
I just spent a very pleasant 90 mins watching the sunday game from 20th July. Tomas and Dermot Earley are excellent analysts and neither feel the need to entertain us. Not sure why Mugsy was there. Didn't offer much. Then Duignan and Donal Og for the hurling and its really top television. Dessie with the black polish on the hair doesnt crack those inane jokes as much either. That Wexford v Waterford match was unreal. In football, Armagh looked good and I don't think its a co-incidence that they are getting things together at the same time that Crossmaglen are on the wane. Very hard for the county men of Crossmanglen to keep form going through the summer during the past decade.
I then caught the end of a TG4 programme about the growth of GAA in the 60s and it dwelt on Down's first win. It showed a clip of a goal against Kerry from one final when the keeper left the ball through his hands. The poor devil must have had nightmares about that.
It also dealt with the ban. Mick OConnell was photographed at a soccer match in the 60s and the GAA was in a pickle. How could then ban Micko Connell. It generated a debate and Tom Woulfes tireless campaign finally won out and the ban was lifted. I didn't realise that Tom Woulfe was a Kerryman. With tears in his eyes he described how his son was on the Terenure College rugby team but he couldn't go to see him. "When you are looking for justice you must come with clean hands" was how he described it.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 31, 2014 7:35:57 GMT
I said here before the Clare game that I couldn't understand why, after closing the doors to Fitzgerald Stadium so the spies couldn't see what was going on in training, we name our team then on a Tuesday evening. The team should not be named until Friday evening. Why give our opponents management 3 days and 4 nights to prepare for our personnel? This week Alan Mulholland would be planning for Steven O Brien to play in front of James Donoghue and Paul Geaney. By naming the team Tuesday you have given them extra time to change their plan and outline the plan to the team.
The naming of teams so long before games is outdated anyway (I know it would be an issue for the Kerryman newspaper but who cares). Teams should be allowed to name their team an hour before the game.
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Post by westisbest on Jul 31, 2014 8:39:38 GMT
attacking wing back I think very few are talking up galway. in fact if you look at any social media, newspapers etc everyone is backing kerry. don't get me wrong as it is understandable why anyone would back a big favourite but very few know this galway team except the core fans and those close to the camp. what galway have in abundance is pace and youth. average age of the starting line up in the connacht final was 22 but little experience unfortunately at this level although a huge proportion of players have u21 all ireland medals either 2011, 2013 or both. there is a feeling locally that this is a coming team who are starting to realise their potential albeit slowly.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 31, 2014 8:46:16 GMT
I said here before the Clare game that I couldn't understand why, after closing the doors to Fitzgerald Stadium so the spies couldn't see what was going on in training, we name our team then on a Tuesday evening. The team should not be named until Friday evening. Why give our opponents management 3 days and 4 nights to prepare for our personnel? This week Alan Mulholland would be planning for Steven O Brien to play in front of James Donoghue and Paul Geaney. By naming the team Tuesday you have given them extra time to change their plan and outline the plan to the team. The naming of teams so long before games is outdated anyway (I know it would be an issue for the Kerryman newspaper but who cares). Teams should be allowed to name their team an hour before the game. An hour before the game is a bit extreme, but yeah I agree Friday night would have been more appropriate. We saved Galway time by allowing them to not having to plan for O Brien.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 31, 2014 9:23:03 GMT
I said here before the Clare game that I couldn't understand why, after closing the doors to Fitzgerald Stadium so the spies couldn't see what was going on in training, we name our team then on a Tuesday evening. The team should not be named until Friday evening. Why give our opponents management 3 days and 4 nights to prepare for our personnel? This week Alan Mulholland would be planning for Steven O Brien to play in front of James Donoghue and Paul Geaney. By naming the team Tuesday you have given them extra time to change their plan and outline the plan to the team. The naming of teams so long before games is outdated anyway (I know it would be an issue for the Kerryman newspaper but who cares). Teams should be allowed to name their team an hour before the game. An hour before the game is a bit extreme, but yeah I agree Friday night would have been more appropriate. We saved Galway time by allowing them to not having to plan for O Brien. Naming a team an hour before the game (like they do in the World Cup final and Champions League final for example) would cut out the crap like dummy teams and different fellas lining up in the pre match parade etc. Most people have smart phones now, I'm sure it would just be a case of opening up your app an hour before the game to see the starting line up.
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Post by lár na páirce on Jul 31, 2014 12:32:15 GMT
I like the teams named early and i think all teams should be named by Thursday midnight as a rule,With sanctions after for late changes.
It provides talking points and builds interest in the game over the week,No-one seems to have a problem with the Irish rugby team naming there side so early in the week and there is very rarely a change after that.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 31, 2014 12:58:19 GMT
An hour before the game is a bit extreme, but yeah I agree Friday night would have been more appropriate. We saved Galway time by allowing them to not having to plan for O Brien. Naming a team an hour before the game (like they do in the World Cup final and Champions League final for example) would cut out the crap like dummy teams and different fellas lining up in the pre match parade etc. Most people have smart phones now, I'm sure it would just be a case of opening up your app an hour before the game to see the starting line up. An hour before a game would just frustrate fans. Yeah it's done in soccer, but with no obvious benefits therefore no reason to copy. Managers would be asking players to take a serious vow of silence if a team wasn't to be released until an hour before kick off!!! Kerry's a small place, leaks would inevitably happen, hence Thrusday/Friday is a fair compromise. Dummy teams are for poor managers who are insecure about their own players abilities.
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