animal
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Post by animal on Jul 28, 2014 13:43:02 GMT
How we approach this game will be interesting. Was the use of a withdrawn Declan in Cork a case of horses for courses? Our tactics and performance in last year's quarter final versus Cavan bore little or no resemblance to how we performed against Dublin the next day out. Eamon has shown that he is not afraid to mix it up a bit tactically so we wait with baited breath. You have to be constantly adjusting your tactics at the top level as otherwise any sort of decent side will simply look at what the team did in the last game and come up with a plan to stop you doing the same thing again. If you don't innovate and develop the game plan it's just reckless stupidity. There's no way Eamonn and the lads will be as naive as to think they would get away with the same gameplan two days running. I agree you can't necessarily go out playing the same way in every game but I would not be surprised if Declan is once again playing deep. Don't forget that from last year we are missing both Galvin and Gooch who were instrumental in linking the play from the backs to the forwards. Declan did that brilliantly against Cork. I just wonder what the next innovation will be.
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Post by mushroom on Jul 28, 2014 13:49:02 GMT
The only Galway players who, in my opinion, would have a chance of getting on our team would be Gareth Bradshaw at wing back, the 2 midfielders, Shane Walsh and Paul Conroy. The other 11 of their starting 15 look fairly average to me.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 28, 2014 14:37:09 GMT
Fionn Fitz will probably have the honour of marking Shane Walsh, the two big lads at midfield were very poor against Mayo and we should not be in trouble there if Sheehan and Maher continue their Munster Final form. Galway will probably drop two or three players in front of James Donoghue and Geaney so O Brien, Johnny and Declan in particular will need to push on and go at them. There wont be the space to kick the ball in against Galway or Mayo so a change in how Kerry played against Cork will be needed.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 28, 2014 15:28:03 GMT
I just wonder what the next innovation will be. I could tell you but Eamon would have my hide Seriously though I'm not going to say anything or even speculate about possible moves the management might make as we have our reputation as cute Kerry hoors to be protecting. The big plus is that there looks to be pretty much a full panel to pick from - bar one rather big name, of course. However a rancid Cork still managed to get 12 points against us and Clare got a total score of 16 so I'd be concerned about the number of scoring chances we are giving up. It's hard not to see midfield being a key battleground and an area where management will have tough decisions to make - who starts on the basis of the last 2 games and their impact - Maher, Sheehan, Buckley and Moran - do they go with one of these lads in the half-forward line? The bench is an area of concern - Aidan and Donnacha went from subs against Clare to starters against Cork? Did any of the subs make a similar argument against Cork? We made the maximum amount of subs in both games but our 12 subs scored a miserable total of 1 point in the 2 games. Looking back over the 7 games in the league - we made a total of 41 subs and these substitutions yielded a total of 5 points - 5 subs scored 1 point each with 1 of these points being from a free, so we really don't seem to have managed the knack of getting any sort of game changing impact from our subs bench so far this year. While we have a core of experienced players we still have a fair few rookies who are likely to feature. They've acquitted themselves well so far but its a lot to expect these to be game-winners out of the gate, especially if the more experienced lads are having quiet days. So far this year in the championship Galway have notched 3-17 against a weak London side, 0-16 against a limited Sligo side0-16 against a Mayo side who never looked like getting beaten and 4-17 against a Tipp side who were going well but who had a glaring weakness in goals. Fair to say that their forwards know well where the posts are if given sufficient ball. Everyone will be tipping Kerry after the way the match ended with Tipperary getting the 4 goals back (even if the penalty was possibly a touch soft) but I think it's fair to say this wasn't really indicative of how Galway defended throughout - the goals were more down to a combination of Galway taking their foot off the pedal knowing the game was won, the impact of some running of the bench, Galway not being used to being in games where they had such a big lead and Tipp throwing caution to the wind and going for goals to try and get the scoreboard looking a bit more respectable. Worth remembering that Galway kept a reasonably decent Tipp side to a very respectable 11 points prior to this end of match goals giveaway bonanza. It's one thing to concede 4 goals in a ten minute spell when you have a 15 point lead, which is what Galway did as opposed to a doing what Tipp did which was concede 4 goals in a ten minute spell from a position where the score was level. Also Galway have played 4 games compared to our 2 and don't seem to have any injury concerns so you'd imagine their management have it a bit easier than ours when it comes to picking their beat 15. Anyway I've rambled about enough - my main point is that Galway are likely to give us a right good game and I think we will have to up our performance a fair bit from the Cork game to progress.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 28, 2014 15:32:56 GMT
There wont be the space to kick the ball in against Galway or Mayo so a change in how Kerry played against Cork will be needed. No team in the land is going to give us anything even remotely like the amount of space our full forward line had in the Cork game. James O'Donoghue doesn't get that sort of loose marking and room to work in club games never mind at inter-county level. Even the Cork management aren't going to be as dumb again should we end up in a rematch situation.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 28, 2014 18:00:09 GMT
There has to be a question mark over a Galway team that conceded 4-12 to Tipp.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 28, 2014 19:20:30 GMT
This game depends entirely on Kerrys mental attitude and approach. If Kerry play near enough to fifth gear they will win it. Eamonn will have to have their heads right. They wont play as well as they did against Cork.
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Post by asithappens on Jul 28, 2014 19:56:50 GMT
Match Betting from Paddy Power:
Kerry 2/7 Draw 10/1 Galway 10/3
Handicap Betting: Kerry (-4 Points) 10/11 Handicap Draw (-4 Points) 10/1 Galway (+4 Points) Evens
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 8:15:38 GMT
My very rough guess at the starting 15
Kelly Murphy O'Se Enright Fitzgerald O'Mahony Young Maher Moran Walsh O'Sullivan Darran Buckley Geaney O'Donoghue O'Sullivan Declan
O'Brien in line for earliest sub Obviously a fair bit depends on Moran's fitness but I think he will get the nod ahead of Sheehan (if Eamon & co were willing to start him against Clare and give him almost 25 minutes 6 weeks ago, I think he's good odds to get a starting berth.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 29, 2014 8:41:07 GMT
My very rough guess at the starting 15 Kelly Murphy O'Se Enright Fitzgerald O'Mahony Young Maher Moran Walsh O'Sullivan Darran Buckley Geaney O'Donoghue O'Sullivan Declan O'Brien in line for earliest sub Obviously a fair bit depends on Moran's fitness but I think he will get the nod ahead of Sheehan (if Eamon & co were willing to start him against Clare and give him almost 25 minutes 6 weeks ago, I think he's good odds to get a starting berth. I would think Sheehan will be one of the first names on the team sheet, surely he is one of Kerry's most valuable and important players?
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 29, 2014 8:51:53 GMT
My very rough guess at the starting 15 Kelly Murphy O'Se Enright Fitzgerald O'Mahony Young Maher Moran Walsh O'Sullivan Darran Buckley Geaney O'Donoghue O'Sullivan Declan O'Brien in line for earliest sub Obviously a fair bit depends on Moran's fitness but I think he will get the nod ahead of Sheehan (if Eamon & co were willing to start him against Clare and give him almost 25 minutes 6 weeks ago, I think he's good odds to get a starting berth. Unless Bryan Sheehan is injured, there is no way he's starting on the bench on Sunday. Likewise Stephen O'Brien.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 9:35:03 GMT
I really just wouldnt be surprised to see Sheehan on the bench - I think with one eye on Mayo (or Cork again) and possibly Dublin down the line Eamonn and the lads will be looking to develop more options. I think Moran and Buckley are going to start with an eye on developing them on - both of these have had very limited championship game time and in the longer-term we will probably be looking to get more out of them. Sheehan by comparison is very much a known quantity in a Kerry jersey in a sense and a very decent option to bring off the bench.
With Stephen O'Brien I think he's going to lose out to Darran's experience - I would be gobsmacked if he doesn't come off the bench and would think it's quite likely he will be first sub.
Obviously I'm just speculating but to those lads who are of a different opinion why don't ye throw up a 15 so that we can see who you would have on the bench instead?
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Post by Sons of Pitches on Jul 29, 2014 9:49:51 GMT
We start with our strongest team. Enough of the looking forward to the semi final/final. Sheehan is one of our key players therefore he starts end of. One mishap here and it's a long winter ahead.
The league was the time to rotate players.
Remember Down 2010 anyone?
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2014 9:54:04 GMT
Remember Down 2010 anyone? yes.... mentally not tuned in. Went into game as Munster champs too. Also without PG and TOS and Joe was reffing.
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 10:08:06 GMT
We start with our strongest team. Enough of the looking forward to the semi final/final. Sheehan is one of our key players therefore he starts end of. One mishap here and it's a long winter ahead. The league was the time to rotate players. Remember Down 2010 anyone? The thing is I don't think Eamonn sees Sheehan as a key player, but as a squad player. I think a lot of people are looking at Sheehan and seeing his stellar 2011 form as opposed to his mixed form in 2013 and 2014 under Eamonn. Converting deadballs isnt enough to make Sheehan a key player in my opinion. Selecting Buckley or Moran ahead of Sheehan is hardly complete lunacy - for those that think having Sheehan on the bench is , just think for a moment on the question of overall how much would the team be weakened by having either of those two start ahead of him? Odds are if Sheehan was on the bench anyway he'd be fairly decent odds to get a run at some stage.
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Post by lár na páirce on Jul 29, 2014 11:00:28 GMT
Converting deadballs isnt enough to make Sheehan a key player in my opinion. I think it does,If Kerry win a free anywhere in the opposition half its scoreable with Sheehan on the field,NO other county in Ireland has that option,Which in turn makes defense's that Kerry have to face more disciplined which in turn gives the likes of JOD & Geaney a little more freedom. A have been probably Sheehan's biggest critic but he would now be an automatic in my eyes.He is also taking on alot more leadership on the field which is pleasing.He still has a few flaws but he is extremely important to this side. Stephen O Brien needs to start too v Galway he is our big rising star and playing in games like this will enhance his progression.He would be well ahead of Darran in the pecking order IMO.
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wowwow
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Post by wowwow on Jul 29, 2014 11:31:06 GMT
Kelly murphy o se Enright Crowley fitzgerald young moran maher o brien Sheehan walshe o Donoghue Declan geaney
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 29, 2014 11:53:16 GMT
The only possible change I could see is Crowley back in for O'Mahony because Galway do have pace. Sheehan and O'Brien are definite starters.
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Post by veteran on Jul 29, 2014 13:46:08 GMT
I am amazed that anybody is contemplating the dropping of Bryan Sheehan or Stephen O'Brien . On the evidence of the two games to date they are automatic selections.
It will be interesting to see how Galway line up. Usually Kerry/Galway games are open affairs, not least that remarkable 2008 match played in surreal conditions. I drove home from that match in my underpants, having been soaked going from Croke Park to my car. Michael Meehan was invincible that day. What a shame that he had to pack it in. Of course, Galway have a knack of producing crack forwards- Sean Purcell, John Keenan, Ja Fallon, Padraig Joyce and now Shay Walsh, to mention just a small cohort.
The current Galway team seem to have loads of pace, an adequate midfield, clever forwards but the back line looks feeble enough, even allowing for the fact that they conceded a lot only when the match against Tipperary was over.
People would need to remember that our team too is at the embryonic stage and therefore, while I expect a win on Sunday, I do not anticipate that it will be as easy as a lot of Kerry people expect.
The Mayo/Cork game is certainly the more intriguing of the two. If Mayo expect Cork to perform as they did in the Munster final they maybe in for further heartbreak. I think Cork are foolish in playing Michael Shields out the field. He gives solidity to the full back whereas he tends to take too much out of the ball in the half back line. Colm O'Neill will be a huge bonus for Cork and his expected clash with Keith Higgins could be one of the duels of the weekend.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 29, 2014 14:41:30 GMT
I agree with veteran that on the evidence of both Clare and Cork games it would be extremely harsh to drop Sheehan or O Brien unless they have a knock or have totally gone off the boil in training.
Johnny Buckley was very good against Cork, but we have also seen glimpses this year of what David Moran can do, with his dominant display against Tyrone being probably the most glaring.
Having Maher, Sheehan, Buckley and Moran in top form from now until the end of the championship would mean Kerry have a fantastic chance of going all the way. However they have all mixed the good with the bad and indifferent in the last couple of years and it would just take an off day from 3 of them to see Kerry beaten by either Mayo or Dublin/Donegal.
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Post by beantownfan on Jul 29, 2014 14:50:06 GMT
On the evidence of the Cork game I can't see how Sheehan OR O'Brien could be dropped unless injured. Sheehan had a fine game. O'Brien was hard done by to be substituted, was a hair's breath away from scoring a cracking goal, and scored a fine point. Sheehan had a fine day out. I watched O'Brien pretty closely in the Cork game, and he has this fine ability to take the ball into the tackle and emerge the other side with the ball or get a free in the process. On several occasions he took his opponent on, and this is exactly what we need from forwards. Darren, while a good forward, seems to run into dead ends, of late he does not seem to be able to get through the tackle, he might get around a man with speed, but if tackled does not come out with the ball. As for resting lads with an eye on Mayo etc... I think at every level (underage through snr) you start your best 15, this notion of resting lads is not a good idea as it encourages complacency.. Start your best 15, if you are well on top start bringing lads on early. On evidence of previous games I don't think our bench is as strong as it needs be, the stats above on the scoring abilities of our subs speak for themselves.
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mandad
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Post by mandad on Jul 29, 2014 14:57:30 GMT
I would expect that the same 15 that started against Cork will start on Sunday - assuming that there are no fitness problems. After that it would come down to 'matchups'. For instance, I think Shane Enright looked comfortable enough at full back and he should be given another shot at it. Any talk of not starting Brian Sheehan makes little sense to me. The first name on the sheet and in midfield also. Like other posters on here I believe that a different game plan is called for and even if we do win, as I expect, we may have to dig a little deeper that last day out.
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Jul 29, 2014 15:14:39 GMT
I mo thuairim Mr Ó Sé called this perfectly on TSG- our backs haven't been tested, we will get a much better game than last year, but supporters should be sweat free by the hour mark and a win by 5-6 points.
Luas lasrach ag chúpla tosaí na Gaillimhe
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 29, 2014 16:03:52 GMT
In relation to the issue of the importance of a free taker and whether including a free taker it's worth having a look at a bit that crops up on the Don't Foul blog in relation to how Kerry performed (excluding Cooper) when it came to deadball situations over 12 championship matches. dontfoul.wordpress.com/2014/02/19/the-importance-of-the-gooch/Given that a serious chunk of these would have been Sheehan attempts I think we have to question how valueable he is - even the last day he missed a very kickable free from pretty much straight in front of the posts. People might remember the effort from the sideline from a few years but if he'd missed that one and converted the one straight in front of the posts the scoreline would have been the same. People remember the odd/occasional spectacular effort and overlook the mundane efforts. Worth remembering that Cork for instance shot 7 from 7 on deadballs compared to Kerry's 5 from 7. Somewhat on the basis of this,I think it looks like Sheehan's recent form in terms of deadballs has to be called into question, especially given the fact that if he doesn't start the odds are high that both Moran and Buckley will be on the pitch as well as JOD for the closer in ones. Sure O'Brien & Sheehan had decent games against Cork but we need to remember this was pretty much one of the worst performances by Cork against us in half a century or so. If you win an inter-county game by 12 points against a side giving a 6 or 7 out of 10 performance it's one thing - winning by 12 points when the opposing team give a 1 or 2 out of 10 performance it's a whole different kettle of fish, and performances have to be marked down accordingly. If people still think the result in the Kerry-Cork game was wholly down to excellent play on our side, have a look at the stats from the Sligo game and see how there wasn't a whole lot of difference between those 2 sides especially in the area of winning kickouts dontfoul.wordpress.com/ (expect Horan's boys to go to town on Cork in this area when they meet, as the Mayo forwards won't be allowing O'Halloran take short ones the way the naive Sligo forwards did) Pretty much everyone regarded this game as a massive improvement by Cork but they still only managed to beat a very weak Sligo by 7 points,conceding 1-11 to them. [Sligo scored 0-10 against both Wicklow and Limerick and 0-11 against Galway by way of a comparison - if anyone is having any notions of what Cork achieved in beating Sligo] To put it another way Sligo's attack had their best day out in the championship this year against Cork, despite the fact that the other 3 teams they played were Wicklow, Limerick and Galway -3 teams of differing levels but all would be "rated" below Cork and none of them being known as especially effective defences (and this was with Cork playing 2 sweepers and Sligo forwards being in very poor form) Basically I think in the longer-term if we are to have a chance at Sam we need to get more players in better form - the contribution from our bench this year between league and championship has been feeble, especially when you compare it to the sort of scores Dublin's bench have been racking up. Worth remembering that last year in the Dublin game their subs scored 2-3 while our subs scored zip. Even if it's not Dublin we need our bench players to do more when they come on. Selecting Darran & Buckley/Moran ahead of O'Brien & Sheehan would be marginal calls, but I could see both having a decent shot of making an impact off the bench later in the game when Galway's defenders and midfielders are tired and there will likely be more space and time for the two of them to work. Think of it as selecting some best combination of players from the squad over the 70+ minutes. Anyone we'll know some enough and it's no harm to consider a few different possibilities.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2014 16:48:25 GMT
Games are seldom won in the first ten minutes. Its the final ten minutes from the 63rd minute on that matters now and Kerry should be thinking about having a strong team for the whole of 73 minutes. This may mean holding certain players in reserve that would ordinarily start.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 29, 2014 16:51:12 GMT
Sheehan was the main reason Kerry beat Galway in 2008. Despite all of the lovely football on display that day it was Sheehan's place kicking that powered Kerry on during the monsoon.
Same could be needed Sunday.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Jul 29, 2014 17:53:53 GMT
I think its important at this stage Veteran that we give Eamonn and his team the benefit of the doubt. If Brian Sheehan is left out of the 15 to start then it is because we have a plan. Personally I think that this game is tailor made for Brian and I would certainly start him. His mobility (If we go further) may be a concern in the greater scheme of things. All things being equal, I would start the same 15 as the last day and go from there. I would certainly be playing Declan closer to goal and give Galway plenty to think about.I don't believe that the Cork/Mayo game is the more intriguing of the two. Cork IMO are in disarray. If Brian Cuthbert gets this team up for a game in Croker Vs Mayo in 6 days with a winning game plan then I will gladly say he is a genius. If Mayo bring any sort of form to the table they will win. Whereas finding out exactly where Kerry are, is much more of a puzzle. IMHO of course Sir.
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 29, 2014 18:50:55 GMT
I would expect the same 15 to start again on Sunday- we know what most players are capable of so no need to change things around now. Darran did not impress in the county championship so hard to see him starting. Galway will be competitive but I would fear for their defence- they have been conceding big scores and have yet to face the likes of James O'D or Declan. Ciarrai Abu!
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 19:06:33 GMT
We start with our strongest team. Enough of the looking forward to the semi final/final. Sheehan is one of our key players therefore he starts end of. One mishap here and it's a long winter ahead. The league was the time to rotate players. Remember Down 2010 anyone? The thing is I don't think Eamonn sees Sheehan as a key player, but as a squad player. I think a lot of people are looking at Sheehan and seeing his stellar 2011 form as opposed to his mixed form in 2013 and 2014 under Eamonn.Converting deadballs isnt enough to make Sheehan a key player in my opinion. Selecting Buckley or Moran ahead of Sheehan is hardly complete lunacy - for those that think having Sheehan on the bench is , just think for a moment on the question of overall how much would the team be weakened by having either of those two start ahead of him? Odds are if Sheehan was on the bench anyway he'd be fairly decent odds to get a run at some stage. I don't think anyone is looking at Sheehan and seeing his stellar 2011 form. Those praising him here and expecting him to start are basing it on his 2014 form, which has been gradually improving; I'd even go as far as saying he has been a barometer of Kerry's form this year as much as any other player has been. I'm not Eamon, he can do as he wish's but if it were up to me Sheehan would be one of the first names on the team sheet. Mike Quirke wrote in the paper recently that Maher needs to become a leader now; well we have that kind of a leader in Sheehan and I'm sure Buckley, Maher/Moran would be better for his presence. So for me it's Sheehan plus 1 or 2 of the other 3.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 29, 2014 19:15:47 GMT
It was mentioned here after the Cork game I think, how Kerry have really benefited from the black card being introduced, and how it's afforded guys like JOD that little bit more freedom. Are we not equating this with also an ability to punish teams with deadly accurate free taking? Black/Yellow card plus the concession of a point is a double blow. Now consider your an opposition manager and Brian Sheehan isn't named on the Kerry starting 15! That's an opposition managers delight because teams will figure they can score against Kerry, it's just a case of halting Kerry's scoring ability. No Sheehan, I think of that influential point v Cork from the sideline when Cork were begining to make a comeback plus Johnny Buckley's horror show from deadball last year v the Dubs!!!
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