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Post by haryegsnbaken on Jul 7, 2014 18:32:42 GMT
Fair play delorean, good honest post. Not easy being a supporter on those kind of days. What do you make of all the post-match focus on the dual players - is this just speculation in the quest for a scapegoat ? It's not as if the non-hurlers fared any better on the day.
Yes indeed fair play delorean. And thanks for that chart. It looks like the 2nd of Aug double header so.
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Post by veteran on Jul 7, 2014 19:38:26 GMT
I met a few fellows last week who said they were not going to the match because they felt Kerry did not have a chance. The faith is a fragile commodity , no doubt. On the way into the match I expressed the view that I would be happy with the minors winning and the seniors staying within five points of Cork. The minors kept their side of the bargain but the winners, well what were they up to!
It is hard to estimate the market value of this victory but one thing is certain. If this contest was a horse race a stewards inquiry would have been called. One side would have been tested for stimulants and the other side for depressants. For Kerry, the game was a reprise of the 2009 semifinal against Dublin while for Cork it was a reprise of the Kerry surrender to Meath in 2001. A total systems collapse. It must have been that level of a sickener for the Cork followers. In that vein, I empathise totally with them. It was such a total massacre that only one Cork player, Fintan Gould, could be pleased with his individual performance. Therefore, in practically every position the Kerry player trumped their opponent. In that scenario, you are inhabiting the land of fantasy, ingesting milk and honey. That is the way it was yesterday for Kerry followers. Too good to be true? Time will tell as the season unfolds.
The paradox is that Cork started menacingly, not least Aiden Walsh. He collected a ball after some fumbling by a collection of players, burst through and planted it over. Very shortly, Daniel Goulding sailed one over. That essentially was the climax of Aiden's day and indeed that of Cork. After that , more or less, he was a shadow chasing shadows. What happened the supreme athlete we recently saw rampaging on the hurling field. For example, he spilled three balls in succession in a short period. Admittedly, he was getting clattered,as you would expect. Could it be that hurling has become too lose and nice, "excuse me hurling" as Ger Loughnane might say. Whatever reason , the hope is that this exemplar of a sportsman regains the form he once displayed.
It is right and proper that the management get their share of plaudits for devising a plan that ensured a prairie was created for fast, clever, skillful forwards. Good forwards crave space. Conversely, backs, good and bad, abhor uninhabited grassland. Management are further are entitled to plaudits for ensuring that the backs, unlike what happened in the NFL in Tralee, were not exposed to unscreened sniper fire. Most of all, they deserve plaudits for the precise nature of their match ups. For the benefit of those who have not seen the match the match ups were: Marc on Daniel Goulding, Shane on Brian Hurley, AO'M on John O'Rourke, Killian on Paddy Kelly, Fionn on Barry O'Rourke and Paul Murphy on the other Paul. Bryan Sheehan came to midfield, Johnny Buckley at wing forward on Damien Cullinane, Doncha on the right wing on James Loughrey. Plaudits then for the board of directors but I suppose the players are entitled to some plaudits as well.
Brian Kelly will be forever remembered for his swallow dive over the head of Marc when plucking one down from the sky. The acrobatic exercise was complemented by the fact that he held on to the ball after he clattered back to earth.
Marc was as water tight as ever and Shane nibbled and niggled Brian Hurley into submission. Paul Murphy matched Paul Kerrigan stride for stride and , on one occasion, blow for blow. He is the opponent from the nether world. AO'M was solid while picking up his customary yellow. Killian and Fionn dominated their opponents but who didn't, says you.
Anthony Maher improved significantly on his Clare form but he can give more and will need to give more as the campaign hots up. Bryan Sheehan carried on where he left off in Ennis. His forty five early in the second half broke the spine of Cork's comeback. He did a lot of other things too, not least the conversion of that impossibly acute sideline kick. He is such a rounded footballer.
After the Clare match I bemoaned the poor contribution of our wing forwards, Darren and Mickey Geaney. No such complaints with Doncha and Johnny Buckley. For a man who could scarcely trot in Ennis when he came on, Doncha underwent a remarkable transformation in the space of two weeks. Johnny won it high and low and was unrecognizable from the man we saw in Croke Park against the Dubs.
Declan ambled onto the field with his knees kept from falling apart with various devices. This is not good, I mused. Less good says I to myself when I saw him take up his position on the forty with that swathe of bandages , a position where one could do with more than two sound ones. He proceeded to have one of his most productive outings ever in that old, magical jersey. It is no exaggeration to say that he covered every metre of the pitch from start to finish without wilting. There was one occasion in the second half when a ball was directed to a Cork man which should have been an easy take but Declan came in from the blind side and thundered into him resulting in the ball breaking loose into the hands of a Kerry man. Mark you, that was at a time when the deal was irrevocably signed off on. No doubt, JO'D is on everyone's mailing list after his ten point madness. I merely want to underline the display of Declan for those who were not there. Look, he was indefatigably immense. That is all you need to know.
I may as well out myself at this juncture. I am in love with Stephen O'Brien. He is a stick of dynamite. His incessant motion is primed by a brain which propells him in a straight line goalwards at all times.It is a shame that his second half thunderbolt did not finish in the net rather than crashing against the cross bar. Some day soon, the work rate of this plucky young man will register freely on the scoreboard.
Paul Geaney is fast realising the potential that anybody watching him at club level would have predicted. He has a habit of throwing this treacherous feint before kicking. Nine points from play in two championship games is testament to his progress.
Enough has been said about that fella O'Donoghue from Killarney. Who does he think he is, upstaging my very own elusive butterfly.
I heard a lot of dangerous talk today about what this Kerry team might achieve. If John B. was alive he would admonish us by saying- "walk aisy now that your jug is full".
P.S. I genuinely felt sorry for John Hayes when he got that deserved red card for his wayward elbow to Declan's jaw. That was completely out of character for a very classy player but that is what frustration does to you.
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dart
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Post by dart on Jul 7, 2014 22:11:18 GMT
Well said Veteran. Declan was my man of the match anyways, but t'was some job to choose one player! In a good way thankfully.
Despite the wonderful result, feet need to stay firmly planted on the ground. I think that they will, and I am expecting a poor enough win in the quarters similar to the Cavan game last year which nearly caused riots because of the poor showing in the second half especially. But look how the semi final turned out! Kerry were oh so close last year and we look far stronger this year. Time will tell. Dubs are looking good though, especially being at home every game.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Jul 8, 2014 0:06:16 GMT
lads - the attendance was pathetic yesterday. what was in the Kerry terrace? 200 people max. Cork were hardly there in droves either but at least they have the excuse of the hurling next sunday. It doesn't suggest much for the passion for football that is supposed to exist amongst Kerry people.
back to more positives vibes. The performance of our minors was the highlight of the day for me. We are winning Hogan Cups and Munster minors again and that has to be great for the future. Delighted to see Paul Geaney is such form. Always knew he could step up but didn't see him being that good is his championship debut year. Also well done Eamonn Fitz. He has two from two in Munster and a great AI semi performance last year v a great team behind him. Could anyone have expected any better when he took over? His team selection was questioned in a big way. The Finuge\Lixnaw man had it spot on
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Post by delorean on Jul 8, 2014 8:09:10 GMT
What do you make of all the post-match focus on the dual players - is this just speculation in the quest for a scapegoat ? It's not as if the non-hurlers fared any better on the day. I'm not sure how sustainable it is under the current format, but I'm not overly concerned either. Whatever about Cuthbert, I think JBM would be very quick to pull the plug on it if he feels it is unworkable. The most important thing, I feel, is that the players need to be honest with themselves. Take Cadogan for example, he has all the signs of a guy at the moment who can barely hack one sport, let alone two. He has become a fringe player for the hurlers, although with Mark Ellis a doubt for Sunday he may get a look in. I think he may be one that might re-evaluate at the end of the season. It's early days for Cahalane, the jury is probably still out a little bit on him in both codes so a sensible decision may come naturally in due course. Walsh probably has the best chance, given his athleticism and importance to both sides. Hopefully it works out for him. It's probably more of a controversial topic amongst the hurling (or football) diehards... the guys who are obsessed with one and have little interest in the other.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jul 8, 2014 9:40:36 GMT
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animal
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Post by animal on Jul 8, 2014 10:37:22 GMT
What do you make of all the post-match focus on the dual players - is this just speculation in the quest for a scapegoat ? It's not as if the non-hurlers fared any better on the day. I'm not sure how sustainable it is under the current format, but I'm not overly concerned either. Whatever about Cuthbert, I think JBM would be very quick to pull the plug on it if he feels it is unworkable. The most important thing, I feel, is that the players need to be honest with themselves. Take Cadogan for example, he has all the signs of a guy at the moment who can barely hack one sport, let alone two. He has become a fringe player for the hurlers, although with Mark Ellis a doubt for Sunday he may get a look in. I think he may be one that may re-evaluate at the end of the season. It's early days for Cahalane, the jury is probably still out a little bit on him in both codes so a sensible decision may come naturally in due course. Walsh probably has the best chance, given his athleticism and importance to both sides. Hopefully it works out for him. It's probably more of a controversial topic amongst the hurling (or football) diehards... the guys who are obsessed with one and have little interest in the other. It was funny how quick the dual lads were made scapegoats for Cork's collapse on Sunday by a lot of people. The RTE commentators mentioned it before full time. The effect of their duality could not possibly be quantified by Sunday. The three lads make one fifth of the team or one tenth of the panel. I also don't think they stood out as being poorer than their teammates either. Cork were bad from 1 to 15. Blaming the fact that a few lads play both codes is looking for easy answers. It may well be that pleasing two masters is an impossible task but I think it had little bearing on Sunday.
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Post by lár na páirce on Jul 8, 2014 10:55:47 GMT
Super super performance from Fitzmaurice and Kerry. Few things - The forwards lined out perfect - Buckley on the wing,Declan centre,O Brien playing just ahead of the 2 lads inside
- Sheehan was super back i lar na pairce
- Nice to see Buckley getting near his potential again
- Shane Enright was super,He is a man who gets alot of criticism off me but he really stuck tight to Hurley
- Subs did very well when introduced
Such a simple game plan executed very well. Fitzy seems to be a man for the big day Saying that i think if Cork performed like that against any other team in the country the would be beat.Cork were shocking Sunday,But Kerry played very well..Looking like a good summer again
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Post by delorean on Jul 8, 2014 11:13:14 GMT
Sensationalism with elements of truth I think. We don't kick on like we should but saying that football is not taken seriously kind of contradicts the success at underage in the first place. It's obvious that these development squads and such have brought us a lot of success at that level. Walsh and Sheehan already had Celtic Crosses by the time of that 2011 demolition at U21 level and Walsh picked up his second All Star award in 2012. The All Ireland winning side of 2010 was made up mostly of the 2007 and 2009 All Ireland U21 winning sides, so surely it's fair to say that their development wasn't hindered too badly. It's a legitimate concern though that we do seem to underachieve and I don't think there's any doubt but that the priority given to hurling has been a factor over the years. That's just the nature of a dual county though, it's never going to be an entirely level playing field but I don't think the footballers have been short of anything, preparation wise, in recent years. It's a bit disrespectful and completely unfounded to say Cuthbert was brought in as a yes man to the county board also. Counihan accommodated Cadogan is his dual role previously and I never heard him being accused of that. Oh, and James O'Donghue's previous outing in Páirc Uí Chaoimh was as a sub for the seniors in 2012. That U21 game he keeps referring to was in Páirc Uí Rinn.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jul 8, 2014 13:05:19 GMT
Well thank you Veteran, at last, and great stuff again.
I think Kerry were good and made Cork look so bad; I don't agree than any team would have beaten Cork on Sunday as no team falters overnight. So we can take credit for such a performance and without getting carried away. It is only about Sam now and we are more used to that treck than anyone else.
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Post by wornout2 on Jul 8, 2014 13:29:48 GMT
Agree. Think James and Paul Geaney could light up the championship this year starting sunday. Would like to see Sheahan back in the middle with D. Walsh back in on the wing. Once team takes shape I think people will realise we're not a bad outfit at all. and we'll see the return of all the fair weather supporters!! Going to give myself a pat on the back for this one....
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jul 8, 2014 13:36:39 GMT
Sensationalism with elements of truth I think. We don't kick on like we should but saying that football is not taken seriously kind of contradicts the success at underage in the first place. It's obvious that these development squads and such have brought us a lot of success at that level. Walsh and Sheehan already had Celtic Crosses by the time of that 2011 demolition at U21 level and Walsh picked up his second All Star award in 2012. The All Ireland winning side of 2010 was made up mostly of the 2007 and 2009 All Ireland U21 winning sides, so surely it's fair to say that their development wasn't hindered too badly. It's a legitimate concern though that we do seem to underachieve and I don't think there's any doubt but that the priority given to hurling has been a factor over the years. That's just the nature of a dual county though, it's never going to be an entirely level playing field but I don't think the footballers have been short of anything, preparation wise, in recent years. It's a bit disrespectful and completely unfounded to say Cuthbert was brought in as a yes man to the county board also. Counihan accommodated Cadogan is his dual role previously and I never heard him being accused of that. Oh, and James O'Donghue's previous outing in Páirc Uí Chaoimh was as a sub for the seniors in 2012. That U21 game he keeps referring to was in Páirc Uí Rinn. If Cuthbert is a yes man, than surely JBM is also a yes man for doing the same as Cuthbert in allowing the dual player scenario!! Cuthbert had a bad day Sunday, but that doesn't make him a bad manager. Cork are in good hands, articles like that change as much as a weather.
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Post by dontfoul on Jul 8, 2014 16:26:51 GMT
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Post by givehimaball on Jul 8, 2014 16:46:18 GMT
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Post by veteran on Jul 8, 2014 19:15:40 GMT
I would recommend an article by Conor McCarthy in today's Examiner, and indeed his article in Saturday's Examiner as well. I don't always get a daily paper so I am not sure if Conor is a regular contributor. I do remember reading him previously and was similarly impressed. Conor was a former Cork footballer, neat and clever. I feel he is one of the most perceptive columnists around. He appears to have an in depth understanding of the tactics of modern football and writes with the beauty and clarity of a mountain stream. Read those articles.
I ,and others, were mildly surprised when Peter Crowley was dropped. He came on the last day and got on the ball three or four times, perhaps more, but proceeded to kick the ball away rather aimlessly on three occasions. Presumably, he is not showing good form behind closed doors. I have been an admirer of his, particularly his confrontational use of his body. He has threatened to develop into a formidable player but, not unlike Killian, his advancement seems to have become a little stunted. It may that we do not know his best position. It is a shame if he stagnates because clearly the raw ingredients are there.
The captaincy situation became more farcical than even ever with a substitute receiving the cup while the nominated captain for the day looked on.
Talking about the nominated captain, Fionn, there was an instance in the first half, more or less in front of me, when he whistled in and made a very sharp interception, proceeded to dance forward a few paces and looked up to gauge his next move . Now this happened about forty metres or more from the Cork goal but to his and my astonishment there was not one Kerry player between himself and the Cork's end line. All he could do was do a few static toe to hand movements but was, through no fault of his, summarily gobbled up and possession was lost. It may seem petty to point this out in an apparently flawless team display but surely one, better still two, forwards should have stayed in-situ to provide Fionn with a focal point. Thinking about that scenario being replicated later on in Croke Park, when we could be fighting for our lives, is enough to induce a cold sweat.
Shane Enright tucked himself inside Brian Hurley's jersey all day and had his best game for a while. Again, acting the devil's advocate, he went up unchallenged for a high ball in front of his own goal in the second half and dropped it. Luckily, it was gleefully collected by a colleague. I have seen him do that once or twice in Croke Park . Not wise if Messrs. McFadden, Brogan etc are loitering.
When a player is mouthing at a decision or preventing an opponent from taking a quick free it is a good rule by the referee to bring the ball forward. Is it 10 metres? However, once in the second half the referee picked up the ball and took off and I swear I thought he would never stop. It must have been brought forward at least thirty metres. Does the referee have discretion in the matter?
The minor match was a terrific affair. Kerry looked the better team but they got a severe fright from a Cork team had a lot of classy players. I was looking forward to seeing Killian Spillane. He did a lot of good things but his opponent, Kevin Flahive, was in no way intimidated by his reputation and was very impressive.
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Post by ballynamona on Jul 8, 2014 20:59:38 GMT
I agree with Veteran on the captaincy.
Whether or not one agrees with the present system of the County Champions nominating the captain, it is the rule and had been since time began. But it has been applied in a particular way, and precedents have been set over the years. One is that if you did not command a starting place on the team, you were not the captain.
Few people probably even remember that Bryan Sheehan was the nominated County captain in 2006. But Bryan did not have a starting place, and Declan O'Sullivan was captain (with Gooch captaining when no South Kerry man was on the team). That is a recent example to illustrate the point, there are many from over the years.
Last year, Eoin Brosnan collected the cup despite not starting, which was a break with tradition. On Sunday last, Kieran O'Leary picked up the cup. To me this is totally wrong, and should not have been allowed to happen.
People will rightly say that if Kerry win the All-Ireland then we won't really mind who picks up the cup. But the fact is that the current system has it's flaws, and has caused problems in the past. It is therefore incumbant on all parties to use common sense and apply the system correctly. I feel that sending a sub (who realistically will not be a contender to start) brings the system into disrepute. Will the manager be expected to give the captain a run? This shouldn't arise. If we are going to have this rule, lets apply it as it always applied.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 8, 2014 21:05:40 GMT
To my knowledge Veteran, the referee doesn't officially/by the rule book have discretion but in that case he may argue that having moved it 10m,Kerry were still protesting. Mitigating circumstances I guess etc. having said that, in the drawn Tyrone v Down game earlier this season, Tyrone equalised from a line all that had been moved forward and in to the pitch....the referee has no discretion or 'permission' to move a line ball regardless of protests. That resulted in a final equalising score for Tyrone that day.
Anyway, to the match..an outstanding performance by Kerry, superb tactical approach by management implemented equally superbly by the players. Declan and Bryan in particular we're immense but it's hard to pick out any poor performance from anyone. Shane certainly had his best game in a long time. Hopefully, his confidence will grow on the back of that. It seems to me at times that his concentration wavers. It didn't to any great extent on Sunday ...hopefully he can continue to drive forward now and make the position his own. I haven't been a fan up until this point...hopefully he'll continue to change my and others mind.
Cork were certainly poor but as always you can only beat what's in front of you. How Cork react to this will be the making or breaking of them. It could well be Tipp again in the next round....not a gimme by any stretch but a chance nonetheless to re-establish credibility etc and move forward again.
Kerry played with great fluency and energy...can that be maintained? Time will tell but a helluva good performance on which to build for the next day.
Excellent performance also by the minors even if the nicest thing you can say about the ref in that game is that he tried to keep it interesting! Rajendra Robben would have been proud of the winning of that penalty. As for the two disallowed goals....ah well, if it was actually close....
On a final note, a Corkman sitting near me in the covered stand exited with 10 mins left on the clock with the remark..'we were told ye were in transition. We should know f***ing better. Ye don't do transition'. On the day, you'd have to say he had a point......
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Jul 8, 2014 21:17:17 GMT
Kerry with a 100% pass completion rate for 31 min of the 2nd half - that must be a record.
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fg
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Post by fg on Jul 8, 2014 21:21:37 GMT
What I find interesting is we have had no posts from jack murphy, for the last number of months if not longer, we have been subjected to his patronising posts and after a loss nothing, at least with delorean he has posted with humility and intelligence and also reality, something I think we do when we are at the receiving end.
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Post by Deise Exile on Jul 8, 2014 22:27:52 GMT
FairPlay you called it. Brazil played like cork tonite!!
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 8, 2014 22:43:15 GMT
Surely it would have been clear to all at Crokes that Fionn should have been named Kerry captain in the absence of Colm? I hope there isn't the touch of the Charlie Charter about it.
I'd be bitterly disappointed to see this great tradition dispensed with by the county board. Earning the right to captain Kerry through deeds on the pitch representing your club is one of great privileges of being a Kerry footballer.
Lets hope it doesn't become a "fly-by-night" decision by suits at a county board meeting to satisfy some ill judged perception.
Let common sense prevail when a club nominates its captain.
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Post by southward on Jul 8, 2014 22:49:22 GMT
Any word on Ruairi Deane's injury ? Looked to be in a fair bit of distress. Poor lad was only on the pitch a minute. Hope it's not too serious.
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Post by kerryeye on Jul 8, 2014 23:26:10 GMT
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 8, 2014 23:28:52 GMT
Isnt he the lad that they thought did his cruciate earlier in the year but scan revealed he didnt? He looked in distress as soon as he went down.
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diego
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Post by diego on Jul 8, 2014 23:48:19 GMT
What I find interesting is we have had no posts from jack murphy, for the last number of months if not longer, we have been subjected to his patronising posts and after a loss nothing, at least with delorean he has posted with humility and intelligence and also reality, something I think we do when we are at the receiving end. without wanting to sound patronising (!), are you sure jackmurphy is the poster you are thinking of?! i find jack's posts tend to be fairly balanced and articulate. Guessing by the name that jack is a South Kerry man, so i'm sure he's as pleased with the result as the rest of us!
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diego
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Post by diego on Jul 8, 2014 23:50:08 GMT
Isnt he the lad that they thought did his cruciate earlier in the year but scan revealed he didnt? He looked in distress as soon as he went down. Ya, same fella.
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Post by ansúilleabhánach on Jul 9, 2014 11:31:02 GMT
...in the drawn Tyrone v Down game earlier this season, Tyrone equalised from a line all that had been moved forward and in to the pitch....the referee has no discretion or 'permission' to move a line ball regardless of protests. That resulted in a final equalising score for Tyrone that day. Think that was actually a free awarded to Seán Cavanagh Joxer. Free resulted from a line ball a bit further down the field.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 9, 2014 11:56:03 GMT
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Post by sullyschoice on Jul 9, 2014 13:15:29 GMT
Nice
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 9, 2014 14:10:31 GMT
The Connacht final on Sunday is now "must see TV" as very likely the losers will be our quarter final opponents and the winners our semi final opponents.
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