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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 23, 2014 8:28:19 GMT
Both the seeds have come through but not as easy as expected and we look forward to probably the last Cork/Kerry Munster Final in the old stadium.
Kerry have a lot of injury problems and Cork have the dual commitment problems so neither side is looking particularly settled at this stage. Traditionally home advantage has been a big factor but Kerry won't have any fear and will expect to at least match Tipp's impressive display.
How do BM's see this one going ?
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 23, 2014 9:26:42 GMT
It will be decided on the day and anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Jun 23, 2014 11:02:52 GMT
On form Cork have to be strong favourites for this. Add home advantage and it's even more difficult to see Kerry winning, unless something exceptional happens. We have huge problems in midfield and don't seem to cope well with strong running teams.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jun 23, 2014 11:46:46 GMT
Does the English Market open on a Sunday in the summertime. I want to at least come home from Cork with something nice.
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 23, 2014 12:00:39 GMT
On form Cork have to be strong favourites for this. Add home advantage and it's even more difficult to see Kerry winning, unless something exceptional happens. We have huge problems in midfield and don't seem to cope well with strong running teams. Yeah - Cork are 4/7 and Kerry 5/4 with PP. However, Cork were something like 1/12 to beat Tipp. They started with Kelly & O Rourke (better known as forwards) in their HB line and with their 3 dual players on the bench. None of this worked and the 2 forwards were moved to attack and 2 of their hurlers were introduced before and at HT. Cork's new management team very nearly screwed it up and by all accounts were very fortunate to get a 2 pt win. They'll all have learned an awful lot and will now appreciate that they have a long ways to go. Fitzy must have been quietly confident leaving PUC on Sat Evening but he'll know that Cork will be an entirely different proposition in 2 weeks. It sounds like Kerry didn't get going until the 2nd half in Ennis but ran out easy enough winners. Not too bad with all the injuries. Hard to know who'll be fully fit in 2 weeks. Cork won 0-17 to 0-12 in the corrospendening fixture (Munster Semi) in 2012 Cork: A Quirke; R Carey, M Shields, E Cadogan; P Kissane, G Canty, N O’Leary; A O’Connor, N Murphy; C Sheehan, P Kelly, P Kerrigan; C O’Neill, A Walsh, D O’Connor Kerry: B Kealy; M Ó Sé, A O’Mahony, K Young; T Ó Sé, E Brosnan, P Crowley; A Maher, S Scanlon; P Galvin, D O’Sullivan, D O’Sullivan; C Cooper, K Donaghy, K O’LearyBoth have around half the 2012 starters still involved.
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Post by glengael on Jun 23, 2014 12:14:11 GMT
Yes Kerry got going in the 2nd half but that wouldn't be too difficult given how their poor first half , but easy enough winners? Not from where I was sitting. A few more close in frees near the end (and that was a distinct possibility as Clare were pressing forward) and we could have been looking at a v.different ending.
On the basis of the most recent meeting between the sides last April, Cork have to be overwhelming favourites the next day.
Apparently, its the last day out for the old Pairc Ui Chaoimh so for that alone, it will be worth the trip.
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 23, 2014 13:11:42 GMT
Yes Kerry got going in the 2nd half but that wouldn't be too difficult given how their poor first half , but easy enough winners? Not from where I was sitting. A few more close in frees near the end (and that was a distinct possibility as Clare were pressing forward) and we could have been looking at a v.different ending. On the basis of the most recent meeting between the sides last April, Cork have to be overwhelming favourites the next day. Apparently, its the last day out for the old Pairc Ui Chaoimh so for that alone, it will be worth the trip. Also Clare had a few goals chances - what would have happened if they had gotten a second goal. If it's the last day for the old PUC are we allowed bring a sledgehammer? Battering the baby seating out of existence would be very satisfying after all the pain they have inflicted over the years.
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 23, 2014 13:36:14 GMT
Yes Kerry got going in the 2nd half but that wouldn't be too difficult given how their poor first half , but easy enough winners? Not from where I was sitting. A few more close in frees near the end (and that was a distinct possibility as Clare were pressing forward) and we could have been looking at a v.different ending. On the basis of the most recent meeting between the sides last April, Cork have to be overwhelming favourites the next day. Apparently, its the last day out for the old Pairc Ui Chaoimh so for that alone, it will be worth the trip. Fitzy seemed fairly satisified. Clare were bound to put up a decent show as they had 3 competitive games since Kerry last played. Collins is a decent manager and it was a big bonus to get Podge and Sean playing - they have serious fitness levels. With Kissane and a good strength & conditioning guy - they were dangerous. Midfield is now a worry as Moran will struggle to get back 100% fit. Buckley the same. Could be Sheehan and Maher but Cork are poor at MF and Kerry should at least break even. Can't expect Darren and Donncha to be prominant so it's vital to get JOD back 100% - he's a natural forward so might click even with limited prep. The big bonus is Paul Geaney - he looked very good captaining UCC to the Sigerson and will be a real leader in attack in the years ahead. Kerry don't need a win - it's more a process of finding form and fitness for some key men and maybe by August, things will be looking up.
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Post by aranteorainn on Jun 24, 2014 10:34:03 GMT
From a Cork point of view going into this game with a totally unsettled side due to the team picked against Tipp which was total nonsense particularly in defence. A one off game though. Might suit either team to have an extra game in the qualifiers to steady the ship.
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 24, 2014 11:17:50 GMT
From a Cork point of view going into this game with a totally unsettled side due to the team picked against Tipp which was total nonsense particularly in defence. A one off game though. Might suit either team to have an extra game in the qualifiers to steady the ship. Cork (according to their website) have 2 injured players - Donncha O Connor and Kevin Crowley (neither automatic starters) They had a few playing hurling c/ship but there's no new injury reports. The dual players will have 3 or 4 training sessions so they'll be up to speed. I'd say Cuthbert will have a nearly full panel to pick from. Kerry have bigger problems IMO (although that won't be believed over the county bounds) Darran O S, Moran, D Walsh, JOD, & Buckley may not be 100% for the final. Maher hasn't hit top form and it's anybody's guess whether his good record v Cork will be the kick start, he needs. 2 things that might work to Kerry's advantage IMO :- (1) Kerry destroyed Cork in the 1st half last year with Gooch spraying low, fast accurate passes to a highly mobile forward line. Obviously that will be tried again with possibly Declan as play-maker. If JOD is match fit then with Geaney and O Brien, they can do damage again. Cork's defence won't be much better. (2) Kelly can find his own men with kick-outs but Cork's O Halloran is hopeless wrt this skill. He was dropped after Killarney last year but probably won't be, after a worse shambles v Tipp, because the sub keeper is totally inexperienced. In spite of a few strange decisions the last day - Kerry's management can get it right for big days - Cork's, in contrast, are novices at this level. Cork are well beatable but Kerry's injuries may tilt the balance.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 24, 2014 11:35:48 GMT
Here's a really mad suggestion... is Fionn Fitz our best foot-passer? Pick him at centre forward!
Obviously it would be robbing Peter to rob Paul but just throwing it out there.
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Post by lár na páirce on Jun 24, 2014 13:54:51 GMT
Here's a really mad suggestion... is Fionn Fitz our best foot-passer? Pick him at centre forward! . Marc i feel would be a far better option there,How about Donnacha in midfield to man mark Aidan Walsh?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 24, 2014 13:56:23 GMT
Here's a really mad suggestion... is Fionn Fitz our best foot-passer? Pick him at centre forward! . Marc i feel would be a far better option there,How about Donnacha in midfield to man mark Aidan Walsh? I was half-joking really... taking Marc out would be really robbing Peter to pay Paul... can't believe I didn't write that taking Fionn out of HB would be "robbing Peter (Crowley) to pay Paul (Geaney)"! The reason Donnacha is so good is because he is horrible to mark himself. I wouldn't negate that by putting him on someone else.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jun 24, 2014 15:20:41 GMT
Donnchadh would be the ideal man to play on someone like McCauley but not against Cork.
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 26, 2014 9:55:25 GMT
E FitzM was prepared to risk playing fellas that weren't 100% fit v Clare but he'll be more reluctant to do so v Cork.
Moran, Darran O Sullivan, Buckley, Star, Donnacha Walsh & JOD could all miss out. JOD is most likely to be risked IMO.
Maybe - Kelly, Murphy, M O Se, Enright, F FitzG, Young, Crowley, Maher, Sheehan, Casey, Declan O Sullivan, O Leary, JOD, O Brien, Geaney.
Hard to call between Keane, Casey, M Geaney & O Leary - Casey missed some time with a dead leg at the start of the month and maybe that's why he didn't feature v Clare. D Walsh has the experience but there are reports that he's troubled by an ankle injury. The closed door training and challenges keeps everyone guessing (as intended)
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 26, 2014 10:03:57 GMT
Are Cork still as big and physical as they were two years ago?
Not sure how much I like KOL on the wing against a marauding half back. Feels like were he to be picking him there that we are picking the best six forwards rather than our best HF line.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 26, 2014 10:19:22 GMT
Are Cork still as big and physical as they were two years ago? Not sure how much I like KOL on the wing against a marauding half back. Feels like were he to be picking him there that we are picking the best six forwards rather than our best HF line. In the first league game against us they had a mix but generally they looked a big, strong side, and yet with alot of pace too. Then in the league semi I was thinking the same thing until the 2nd half, when they didn't look so pacey. So perceptions can change quick I suppose is waht I'm trying to say! 2, 3 years ago and more I always felt they were very big but also with alot of running, still the emphasis was very much on the strength to hold possession. There was that period when they wanted to take Mickmack's advice and go with the flavour of the moment - the big target-men option against swarm defence, but that didn't last too long. I couldn't say I've noticed anything that different this year to the previous team, maybe letting the ball in more now, moving it quicker than under CC, which would indicate more pace required, less emphasis on strength? I'm sure some of their newer lads are also quite physically immature still? Maybe............ What about Kerry? They looked a relatively small side in the league, certainly compared to a few years ago. Is that somehow to do with physically immature young lads? And in turn is that more to do with how they've been conditioned or just that the bigger lads with the level of football aren't there? Or are Kerry going to emerge from the dark age in August witha smaller, faster, mesmerising model that runs rings around the bigger, more physical teams? The next team to break the mould could well be a young team that takes the pace of the game and the movement and interchange to a new level...................
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 26, 2014 10:32:42 GMT
Are Cork still as big and physical as they were two years ago?
Not sure how much I like KOL on the wing against a marauding half back. Feels like were he to be picking him there that we are picking the best six forwards rather than our best HF line. They've lost a lot of big men - O Neill, Canty, Kissane, O Connor, Sheehan. I can't think of any big, powerful lads that have come in apart from Cahalane and it's not clear if he'll be a starter this season. Reading the interviews, it looks as Cork abandoned the fast, direct football they used in the league and 'reverted to type' according to Cuthbert, when the pressure came on. It looks to me as if Cork are very much a work in progress and normally Kerry would be chomping at the bit to exploit the weaknesses but this game is a month early for Kerry wrt injuries. I think you are right about the HF line - E FitzM would see Darran & Donnacha as his preferred wing men but they may not get back to top fitness/form so he's got to look for options. M Geaney probably didn't do enough and is unlikley to start. He'll keep Sheehan in the HF line if possible but that's dependent on Moran/Buckley's fitness. Buckley could do a job at HF for 35 mins but we don't know about his fitness. However, as you say, chasing back will be a factor in the decision making.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 26, 2014 11:05:51 GMT
Buckley would not do a job at half forward. To be honest I dont get the hype about him. So far in his inter county career and I am talking championship here he has proven to be mediocre. He was dire against Dublin last year and wasnt too hot against Cork in Kilarney either. Take the free out of it against Cavan as well.
He is a damn fine club player but at the moment thats it. I see no earthly reason to she horn him into a half forward position. I remember Paidi O'Se doing something similar with William Kirby against Kildare in 98. As some one else said you pick your best players in their best positions to give a balance to the team. Buckley is too one paced for the half forward role and currently is only half fit.
The clare game should have bought Donnachadha on. Also whats the point in having lads like O'Leary and BJK on the bench if we aren't going to be used. Id rater O'Leary start at wing forward rather than Buckley. Anyone that reads these forums know I'm not O'Learys biggest fan but, hes a better half forward than Buckley
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jun 26, 2014 11:29:46 GMT
Buckley would not do a job at half forward. To be honest I dont get the hype about him. So far in his inter county career and I am talking championship here he has proven to be mediocre. He was dire against Dublin last year and wasnt too hot against Cork in Kilarney either. Take the free out of it against Cavan as well. He is a damn fine club player but at the moment thats it. I see no earthly reason to she horn him into a half forward position. I remember Paidi O'Se doing something similar with William Kirby against Kildare in 98. As some one else said you pick your best players in their best positions to give a balance to the team. Buckley is too one paced for the half forward role and currently is only half fit. The clare game should have bought Donnachadha on. Also whats the point in having lads like O'Leary and BJK on the bench if we aren't going to be used. Id rater O'Leary start at wing forward rather than Buckley. Anyone that reads these forums know I'm not O'Learys biggest fan but, hes a better half forward than Buckley I wouldn't write him off as an intercounty midfielder, I'm sure he can bring his club form to the county stage on a more regular basis...but your right, half forward is a crazy position to put him, especially the way the game is now with half backs being such a major factor in so many teams attacking strategy.
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diego
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Post by diego on Jun 27, 2014 16:05:55 GMT
O’Donoghue and Buckley set to be back fit for Kerry for Munster football final thescore.thejournal.ie/james-odonoghue-kerry-1541644-Jun2014/KERRY HAVE RECEIVED a boost ahead of Sunday week’s Munster senior football final with James O’Donoghue and Johnny Buckley winning their battles to be fit for the game against Cork. 2013 Allstar winner O’Donoghue missed last Sunday’s Munster semi-final win over Clare due to a shoulder injury while Buckley was absent with an ankle problem. Manager Eamon Fitzmaurice is optimistic when assessing their recovery before the clash in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on July 6th. “Johnny took part in training (on Thursday night) and came through it fine,” revealed Fitzmaurice. “We are hoping that James will be able to do a bit on Saturday and we will have to wait and see how he is after that. The rest of them are grand. “They (James and Johnny) are better than 50/50. With regard to the injuries themselves, I think the injuries will be okay, but it’s the match sharpness and the football; they won’t have a whole lot of that under their belt. That could be a factor. But I think the injuries should be okay.”
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 27, 2014 19:01:42 GMT
O’Donoghue and Buckley set to be back fit for Kerry for Munster football final thescore.thejournal.ie/james-odonoghue-kerry-1541644-Jun2014/KERRY HAVE RECEIVED a boost ahead of Sunday week’s Munster senior football final with James O’Donoghue and Johnny Buckley winning their battles to be fit for the game against Cork. 2013 Allstar winner O’Donoghue missed last Sunday’s Munster semi-final win over Clare due to a shoulder injury while Buckley was absent with an ankle problem. Manager Eamon Fitzmaurice is optimistic when assessing their recovery before the clash in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on July 6th. “Johnny took part in training (on Thursday night) and came through it fine,” revealed Fitzmaurice. “We are hoping that James will be able to do a bit on Saturday and we will have to wait and see how he is after that. The rest of them are grand. “They (James and Johnny) are better than 50/50. With regard to the injuries themselves, I think the injuries will be okay, but it’s the match sharpness and the football; they won’t have a whole lot of that under their belt. That could be a factor. But I think the injuries should be okay.” Good news. Obviously the match sharpness is a real concern but IMO they have to chance JOD - he's the type of player that can produce something from nowhere. This match is perfectly set up for Kerry - Cork can't kick the ball out and even with Kerry's uncertainty at MF - I'd be very confident of at least breaking even and our FF line will exploit their FB line - I'd see a period of Kerry dominance in Munster as the next 2 games (after Sun Week - planning permission ok'ed) will be in Killarney and with the Gooch back, the record there won't be surrendered.
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 27, 2014 19:11:50 GMT
I'm not sure we can take Eamonn at his word as regards players' fitness - he said after the Clare game that David Moran was taken off for "tactical reasons"
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Post by jackmurphy on Jun 27, 2014 19:49:15 GMT
I'm not sure we can take Eamonn at his word as regards players' fitness - he said after the Clare game that David Moran was taken off for "tactical reasons" Ah twas tactical alright Don't admit to picking lads that were clearly unfit - seems like a sensible tactic for a football manager.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jun 27, 2014 20:13:28 GMT
Kerry can win this year’s All-Ireland final. Almost all the things that are need are within their own control. Attitude and determination are very important. Unusually, almost all the big punchers are going through transition period – Kerry, Cork Tyrone. Dublin and Mayo are the exceptions. The current Mayo crop have left several games after them in Croke Park and are very unlikely to win this year. What is effectively a good Dublin team with limitations are favourites. One of the things that is outside of the control of Kerry is the run in Dublin get to the August weekend and the gods are smiling. Dublin believe their own hype and the last thing we want them to get is a wakeup call. The only team I think that could do that is Meath – have tradition and are building with 2 years. They play Kildare this weekend but they have serious injuries and will probably lose. Based on past experience of Kildare and also manager Jason Ryan they will probably crumble in the Leinster final against Dublin. Just what we want. I don’t see Buckley, O’Leary or Casey, starting any game. In recent times Crokes have perfected a system where all players are moulded to fit in to a clearly defined system. It works at club level - can win co championships because most Kerry teams are ballplayers but does not produce inter-county forwards. I saw Casey against Kildare in league – played ok but in attacks when he laid off the ball he ran back around the man he had given it to, to be available again a bit like the wrap around in rugby. He pictured lateral movement. He should have sprinted forward to break the game line – like James O’Donaghoe, Pat Spillane……. Stephen O’Brien did it several times that day. Most Kerry players now and in the past have been the corner stones of their club and have had to make lines, break lines and whatever else is needed to carry the team through. Declan O’Sullivan, Donnchadh Walsh Sheehan, Maher, Enright back to Seamus Scanlon, Tommy Doyle. The word leader is greatly abused in sports but these players had to do it at club game after club game (level of club doesn’t matter) and at county level with like minded players around them they flourish. Remember Seamus Moynihan against Cavan 1997 semi-final. Maybe when they make the breakthrough they don’t play so much with their clubs but in their formative years they perfect it. People wonder why Buckley can’t deliver at county level - the personal assertiveness has not been nurtured and that is needed at county level. They are very good footballers but a vital ingredient has not been developed.
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Post by veteran on Jun 27, 2014 21:47:39 GMT
I have always been an advocate of going the direct route to Croke Park. This was based on having a settled team with a lot of lads having clocked a lot of football miles and ,latterly, chronological miles.
This year, it may be not calamitous to engage in an extra game in view of the fact that the team is still at an experimental stage and that a significant number of players are still convalescing with lack of match practice etc. In this context, I would omit players like James O'Donoghue, David Moran and anybody else who is not one hundred percent match fit for the Munster Final. A player carrying a shoulder injury is always a target for the opposition and a recurrence of this could terminate the year for James. Starting with an unfit player has usually been demonstrated to be a false strategy. We had an example of this last Sunday in the case of David Moran. I know Eamon described his substitution as tacticsl but it was apparent that the poor man could scarcely canter not to mind play a significant role in the hurly burly of a championship game.
The down side of losing the Munster Final is that the team could walk on a landmine in the subsequent qualifier. By that I mean, we could be drawn away against one of the stronger teams , far away from home with little support and a referee who is partial to home town decisions. As George Hamilton might say "danger here". No perfect solution, I suppose.
In any case, no player should be selected unless he is in ,more or less, optimal condition.
Has Jack Sherwood been dropped from the panel or is he injured?
I cannot understand this idea of considering Aiden O'Mahony for a midfield role. It reminds me of the madness of Cork selecting Nial Cahalane for a similar role some years back.
I saw Jonathan Lyne playing at wing back with distinction in three games in the McGrath Cup in 2013. I could not believe my eyes when Eamon and friends started picking him at wing forward for the ensuing NFL and subsequently. I wrote at the time we had a more urgent need for backs than forwards. I still hold that view. Jonathan has good physique and has a bit of the dog in him, not unlike Peter Crowley. I am of the opinion he would be a great option back there. Some people here have suggested Peter for CHB. I concur and Killian could then revert to his best position of wing back.
It is a shame that Mark Griffin is out of favour. I thought he would be well established at this stage. Presumably, he is not impressing in training and in practice matches
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Post by sidelined on Jun 27, 2014 22:20:32 GMT
must agree with veteran, now that kerry are in final 12 [thanks to seeding of the big 2], why take risks with playing injured players in the munster final. if they cant beat teams from qua lifers whats the point in planning to beat dublin . james o d should not be played, likewise moran. would it be better to play either mark griffin or aidan o mahony at 6 to give a more physical presence there to meet walsh when he attacks. killian would provide cover for the full back line as he is more of a man marker.
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 28, 2014 10:48:45 GMT
In terms of the qualifiers, the losing Munster and Connacht finalists will play 2 teams from Longford, Wicklow, Laois and Limerick (round 1A winners) and Wexford/Dublin, Antrim, Tipperary, Sligo.
Now unless Wexford pull off the mother of all shocks, there is really not a lot to be frightened of there - no Division 1 team, 1 Division 2 team, 4 Division 3 teams and 3 Division 4 teams.
Assume that qualifier is won - it would be either the winner of Connacht or Munster final in the quarter-final.[I'm not sure if teams are kept apart here or whether we could draw Cork again in the quarter final] - Anyway if not Cork then it would be either Mayo or Galway for a semi-final place, depending on who wins Connacht.
This game against Cork/Mayo/Galway would be in 5 weeks time; you'd imagine that surely any of the injured lads would be in a much better state by then.
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 28, 2014 10:58:50 GMT
I'm not sure we can take Eamonn at his word as regards players' fitness - he said after the Clare game that David Moran was taken off for "tactical reasons" Ah twas tactical alright Don't admit to picking lads that were clearly unfit - seems like a sensible tactic for a football manager. Actually I think I've might have done Fitzmaurice a bit of an injustice - he didn't actually say that the lads were taken off for tactical reasons, it was more the reporter's interpretation/way the match report was written that put it into my head. I tracked down the report from d'Examiner that put it in my head because I wanted to check what he said about Darran. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/clare-close-gap-but-still-fall-short-of-kingdom-273041.html
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dart
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Post by dart on Jun 28, 2014 21:14:27 GMT
Here's one for ye.
The last game against Clare is the first Championship game which Gooch hasn't played since the 17 point hammering by Meath in the Semi final of 2001!!
As far as I know anyway. I cant find the 2002 fixtures. Maybe he wasn't used in early 2002?
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