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Post by kerrygold on Aug 27, 2014 14:17:48 GMT
Positive move, it takes a big man to ask for help. It might be the making of Darragh the manager.
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 27, 2014 14:27:43 GMT
What coaching experience did Eamonn Fitzmaurice have when he landed the selectors job under Jack? "We got lucky once, we might get lucky again" would not be the philosophy I'd hope for regarding those put in charge of the care of the next generation of Kerry footballers.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 27, 2014 14:28:20 GMT
What coaching experience did Eamonn Fitzmaurice have when he landed the selectors job under Jack? None...but Eamonn had Jack!!!! And it was Jack that had the experience! What Shannonsider was saying is that the coaching team needed an experienced coach added to it, not former great player; he makes a good point. There are 2 more positions yet to fill so hold ye're horses for a while maybe?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 27, 2014 14:32:06 GMT
None...but Eamonn had Jack!!!! And it was Jack that had the experience! What Shannonsider was saying is that the coaching team needed an experienced coach added to it, not former great player; he makes a good point. There are 2 more positions yet to fill so hold ye're horses for a while maybe? Hold your ponies
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 27, 2014 14:33:49 GMT
None...but Eamonn had Jack!!!! And it was Jack that had the experience! What Shannonsider was saying is that the coaching team needed an experienced coach added to it, not former great player; he makes a good point. There are 2 more positions yet to fill so hold ye're horses for a while maybe? Or maybe you could not be so sensitive about it!!! A valid point was made, one backed up by observations of the past 2 years. And irrespective of what positions are left to fill, surely you prioritise what you need.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 27, 2014 14:59:18 GMT
Seamo if you look back on your posts in this thread (and others), the point shannonsider has made is something I have already mentioned. My point is that I would be inclined to wait until the entire backroom team is announced before making comments on Seamus Moynihan's ability as a coach.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 27, 2014 16:04:55 GMT
Seamo if you look back on your posts in this thread (and others), the point shannonsider has made is something I have already mentioned. My point is that I would be inclined to wait until the entire backroom team is announced before making comments on Seamus Moynihan's ability as a coach. I wasn't questioning Seamus's ability as a coach and I didn't get the impression that Shannonsider was doing that either. All that was questioned was his lack of experience. Picking former great players as coaches is a risk, nobody I'm sure questioned Dara's ability as a coach when first given the u21 gig, that was a risk that didn't pay off. It's time to go with a safer bet. Someone I think mentioned that this could be the making of Dara as a coach? The making of Dara as a coach (and Seamus for that matter) would be to have more experienced guys around him to support and feed off of.
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Post by shannonsider on Aug 27, 2014 19:14:25 GMT
Seamo if you look back on your posts in this thread (and others), the point shannonsider has made is something I have already mentioned. My point is that I would be inclined to wait until the entire backroom team is announced before making comments on Seamus Moynihan's ability as a coach. I wasn't questioning Seamus's ability as a coach and I didn't get the impression that Shannonsider was doing that either. All that was questioned was his lack of experience. Picking former great players as coaches is a risk, nobody I'm sure questioned Dara's ability as a coach when first given the u21 gig, that was a risk that didn't pay off. It's time to go with a safer bet. Someone I think mentioned that this could be the making of Dara as a coach? The making of Dara as a coach (and Seamus for that matter) would be to have more experienced guys around him to support and feed off of. Spot on. If there is a coach being added to the management team after this, great. It is badly needed. Let's be clear, I think it's great that a legend like the Pony is willing to get involved. Same with Darragh. These guys will command respect from the players. What I meant was that to be a successful team even at underage (maybe especially at underage?) you need a good coach and coaching structure. Big difference between a coach and a manager. It's easy to be critical on a forum I know, but as I've said to anyone I've spoken to about it in the real world (and as I'm sure many will agree with) the coaching of the u21 team for the last 2 years has clearly not been good enough. There was enough talent available to perform a lot better than we have. So, like I said, delighted Seamus is on board, but it's a coach with a clear vision who can work with Darragh and the players that we need far more urgently than I think a lot of people realise.
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Post by watchdebreakswillye on Aug 27, 2014 22:13:34 GMT
Seamus Moynihan confirmed as a selector for 2015. That's great news indeed & a vey wise move by Dara. Seamus was a great player & leader and will be a great addition to Dara's team. I wish them the very best of luck.
Indeed, Kerry football is in safe hands and the Kingdom must be the envy of every other county with such great men (and backroom teams) in charge of the county's footballing future
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Post by himself on Aug 28, 2014 9:34:14 GMT
Late into the debate but I'd like to point out a few things. Eamonn Fitzmaurice was a very experienced and respected coach and manager at colleges level (PCD teams from first year up to senior) when he became a Kerry senior selector. Seamus Moynihan has completed a lot of coaching courses; that's not to suggest that that anything can fully substitute for experience but he is much more than 'celeb' factor on any sideline.That said, I do think we should be working with our underage development coaches and encouraging them into managerial positions at minor, U21, and ultimately senior. There should be a planned development path for managers and coaches as well as players - I would be thinking of David Power's progression from U14 to U21 manager in Tipperary as an example. While this year's U21 display was tame and lacklustre in the extreme - an honourable exemption to Thomas Hickey, who played very well that night - last year's defeat to Cork was actually a brilliant game. Kerry took the game to red hot favourites Cork, I especially recall a ten minute spell in the second half where Gavan O'Grady gave an absolute exhibition of attacking football, but they all played really well. Kerry lost by two points to the overwhelming favourites, and I came away from Cork that day hugely proud of that Kerry team. That's not to suggest that all is rosy at U21 level in Kerry, because it's far from it, we have serious ongoing problems at this level, but let's not exacerbate them ourselves.
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Post by sidelined on Aug 28, 2014 10:13:19 GMT
u 21 and junior level are steps where players develop into senior inter county players surely there should be some tie up between the two?. in fairness stephen wallace has done a good job with a young junior team this year and would be ideal if available to be u21 selector as well. work with alot of u20 this year. pat spillane being mentioned but has he made too many comments re dara to work with him, cant see it happening.
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 28, 2014 11:53:35 GMT
Spillane, having essentially railed against every innovation in football in the last 25 years, would be the nut worst appointment to an underage set-up imaginable.
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Post by himself on Aug 28, 2014 13:33:03 GMT
I can't agree with that, Keane. While a lot of people judge Pat Spillane by what they see on television, I can 100% guarantee that Pat works very hard at underage football in Templenoe and gives a massive commitment. I don't know the man personally and I'm not starting any campaign for anybody, but anyone involved in underage games around the county has regularly seen Pat on the sidelines with well-drilled teams of good footballers. Pat was the manager of the Kenmare team that won the U21 County Championship this year, and they did it against all the odds and without some very big guns - Kerry minors/summer migration. That took massive doing.I doubt if it was all down to Pat and I'd be fairly sure by reputation that he would be the first to credit the likes of Mike Crowley and Tom O'Connor (I'm not sure if I've ever seen an Inbhearr Sceine school team without Tom at the helm, and they have produced some very good teams) and many others whom I don't know, but when I say that I would be delighted to see Pat in with the Kerry U21s, I'm not thinking of his All Ireland medals or All Star Awards, nor am I thinking of the Sunday Game and Star Newspaper pundit (actually, it might be The Sunday World, I'm usually hungover as I read the papers on a Sunday morning). I'm thinking of the guy who proved his credentials on the ground with a U21 team in Kerry this year.
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 28, 2014 15:17:06 GMT
That's fair enough, but managing a club in Kerry I would argue is not the best proofing ground in the world to show a guy capable; and more importantly willing; to do the necessary in terms of embracing tactical play and modern coaching.
This is a county where even the biggest teams who try to be defensive don't really know how to do it - to see that you need look no farther than the latter stages of the senior championship last year.
His work you've listed above definitely shows he has a lot of the right stuff, but I would be very wary of a guy who has made a living out of deriding everything from tactics to nutrition over a long and painful media career.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 28, 2014 15:30:25 GMT
That's fair enough, but managing a club in Kerry I would argue is not the best proofing ground in the world to show a guy capable; and more importantly willing; to do the necessary in terms of embracing tactical play and modern coaching. Where else would you find these people?
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keane
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Post by keane on Aug 28, 2014 16:33:26 GMT
That's fair enough, but managing a club in Kerry I would argue is not the best proofing ground in the world to show a guy capable; and more importantly willing; to do the necessary in terms of embracing tactical play and modern coaching. Where else would you find these people? Yeah I wasn't very clear there. What I was trying to get across was that Spillane's apparent attitude to all things modern is a big concern, that being moderately successful at club level in Kerry doesn't necessarily overcome. Someone else, with similar achievements and no such long running attitude would seem a reasonable person to give a job to. Similarly, if Spillane when interviewed assured the KCB that it was all just *talk for money making purposes I suppose it would be the same thing, although I suspect his Vaudeville media persona would lead to less of a respect-commanding presence at training than someone like Moynihan would probably get. That's just a guess though of course.
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Post by greengold35 on Sept 2, 2014 7:07:34 GMT
Report in the Examiner this morning that Donie Buckley is to come on board with Darragh for 2015- great move!
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 2, 2014 8:48:15 GMT
Now that's a move to be happy about!
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 2, 2014 9:56:05 GMT
Wouldn't be right to give him the job with the senior team as Cian O'Neill is doing such a great job.
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 2, 2014 15:04:32 GMT
Wouldn't be right to give him the job with the senior team as Cian O'Neill is doing such a great job. Why not? They come from different backgrounds altogether. O'Neill is a Sports Scientist first and foremost and Buckley is a coach first and foremost. If all were willing to work together it would be nothing but good for Kerry.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 2, 2014 15:24:42 GMT
Wouldn't be right to give him the job with the senior team as Cian O'Neill is doing such a great job. Why not? They come from different backgrounds altogether. O'Neill is a Sports Scientist first and foremost and Buckley is a coach first and foremost. If all were willing to work together it would be nothing but good for Kerry. Somehow I think that would be too many big characters at the helm.
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 2, 2014 16:08:58 GMT
Pretty sure O'Neill is a lot more than a S&C coach in the current set up. Wouldn't be inclined to ruffle his feathers with how well he's got our lads going at the moment.
Buckley in with the 21s and available to give specialist sessions with the seniors would be ideal for now.
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Post by Corner Back on Sept 2, 2014 16:52:20 GMT
A reporter within the county is not happy that someone he told in confidence tweeted this story and the papers latched onto it. Same reason that training is now behind closed doors. Certain people in the media were up there every evening and broadcasting who was going well/who wasn't and who was in the A team and who was in the B team in training.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 2, 2014 18:08:11 GMT
A reporter within the county is not happy that someone he told in confidence tweeted this story and the papers latched onto it. He is not averse to a few old tricks himself in fairness. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. ...he was probably told it in confidence himself and let it out.
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 2, 2014 20:26:42 GMT
Pretty sure O'Neill is a lot more than a S&C coach in the current set up. Wouldn't be inclined to ruffle his feathers with how well he's got our lads going at the moment. Buckley in with the 21s and available to give specialist sessions with the seniors would be ideal for now. Ah yeah, if he's working with 21s then that's great. O'Neill is pretty much assistant manager alright and I'm fairly sure sees himself in a bainisteoir bib somewhere down the line. He's done savage work in fairness. We finished far stronger in extra time on Saturday aswell.
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keane
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Post by keane on Sept 2, 2014 21:29:29 GMT
And what a welcome change that is, finishing strong!
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Post by buck02 on Sept 24, 2014 19:31:42 GMT
Aidan O Shea was interviewed on the radio earlier and I could have sworn I heard he say that Donie Buckley is staying on to work with Holmes and Connelly next year.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Sept 24, 2014 20:30:28 GMT
That's correct Buck 02
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Post by sidelined on Sept 24, 2014 21:15:25 GMT
buckley not with u 21s next year then.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 24, 2014 22:25:16 GMT
The team is as follows: 1. Shane Murphy Kilcummin 2. Nathan Breen (Capt) Beaufort 3. Gavin Crowley Templenoe 4. Jack McGuire Listowel Emmets 5. Padraigh Ó Conchúir Dingle 6. Padraigh Ó Sé An Ghaeltacht 7. Tadhg Morley Templenoe 8. Kieran Murphy Kilcummin 9. Shaun Keane Killarney Legion 10. Greg Horan Austin Stacks 11. Gary O’Leary Kilcummin 12. Adrian Spillane Templenoe 13. Thomas Hickey Desmonds 14. James Crean Annascaul 15. Ciarán Keating Skellig Rangers Subs: 16. Gavin Curran Dingle 17. Conor Jordan Austin Stacks 18. Jeff O’Donoghue Glenflesk 19. Niall Sheehy John Mitchels 20. Conor Keane Killarney Legion 21. Denis Daly St Marys 22. Jack Savage Kerins O’Rahillys 23. Cillian Fitzgerald Churchill 24. Sean T. Dillon St Senans Additional Panel Members 25. Cathal Ó Lúing An Ghaeltacht 26. Michael O’Connor Derrynane 27. Jack Barry Na Gaeil 28. Eanna Ó Conchúir An Ghaeltacht 29. David Foran St Senans 30. Gavin O’Shea Dr Crokes 31. Brian Crowley Templenoe of this bunch who is underage in 2015?
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