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Post by Mickmack on Jun 26, 2014 18:32:48 GMT
I hope that is only hearsay. We were poor last year and I question the wisdom of giving rookies the job of U21 manager. U21 is only one step away from the senior post. At least Eamonn had some time a selector with the seniors before he got the job. Ideally I would like to see a successfully club manager get the gig. Like in the minors I know Pat O'Driscolls time wasn't exactly a success but, after what he did with Ardfert he deserved a shot at it. Even Pat Spillane has done some work with Templenoe and the Kenmare district. If we are looking to bring through players properly we need a strong U21 management. I highlighted bfeore on this forum how much of our success in the last decade was built upon our successful U21 teams from the 90's We need to right this constant talk of Pat O Driscoll's time being a failure. He was there for one game and they lost to Tipp which was seen as a massive aberration so he was forced ot of his post- this Tipp team then went on to win the All Ireland. He should have been retained and given more of a chance- would have been better than his successor Kerry lost to the eventual winners by a last minute point. What other minor manager in the past 25 years ran the All Ireland champs to one point?
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 26, 2014 19:08:15 GMT
He was also in charge in 2010 when we were destroyed by Tyrone in a quarter final in Croke Park
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Post by shannonsider on Jun 26, 2014 19:13:35 GMT
Kerry's Eye reporting Darragh and Seamus as a done deal. Plus there will be another selector, who is involved with an inter country team currently still in the All Ireland, so he won't be announced until September. Any guesses? If they mean, not with Kerry, then it boils down to John Evans, Jerome Stack or Donie Buckley basically? Would prefer the latter 2 out of that trio..Jerome trained the team that won AI in 2008 and Feale Rangers in 2007. Has won 2-3 counties with Drom-Broadford in Limerick. Good, relatively young coach. Buckley would be a huge addition..I'd doubt it's him to be honest though. Wouldn't mind being wrong. Evans is a decent manager, but would just prefer the other guys and a fresh approach.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 26, 2014 19:42:42 GMT
He was also in charge in 2010 when we were destroyed by Tyrone in a quarter final in Croke Park Be that as it may-Tyrone went on to win the AI- he had a proven track record of getting teams to play above themselves and improve. He should have been brought in and given a term of 4-5 years in order to develop a consistent platform of players. When you come in initially as an underage coach you are completely dependent on the work done by your predecessor. I know he is back involved with Kerry u16 development squads but I still think that he has a very unlucky tenure and if given a prolonged period in charge of a county team- he would be a success
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 26, 2014 22:49:50 GMT
Still, a management team of Darragh, Seamus and Donie would have serious merit for example. The inclusion of Seamus alone should smooth any perceived choppy waters. Kerry get fierce cranky while in transition, which is probably a good thing, in fairness.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 27, 2014 8:44:06 GMT
I'm not sure why Pat O Driscoll is being brought into this debate. His minor team were very unlucky to lose the 2010 Munster Final and were then hammered by Tyrone in the game before the Kerry-Down quarter final. The following year they managed to lose a Munster semi final after being 10 or 11 points up at one stage. Pat continued to do good work with development squads and is important in that role.
I'm surprised that Darragh has looked for and is getting another shot at this. He would be first to acknowledge that this is a results driven business. The competitive results - and more importantly - the performances, have been poor to say the least over the last two years. Now the might not have had a lot to work with, but this year there was no change made whatsoever that made a difference during the game. There seemed little by the way of a cohesive game plan, especially in the forwards.
The way the county board seem to work, if I was to take a punt on the next u21 management team (after the Darragh/Moynihan/Stack or Buckley term ends), it'll probably involve one or more of Paul Galvin, Tomas O Se or Eoin Brosnan.
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Post by keepitsimple on Jun 27, 2014 9:16:07 GMT
Pat O Driscoll deserves another shot at this level, in some capacity at least. Martin Horgan is also rumoured to be flashing his credentials towards a role as well although I reckon this could be a wind up
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brigid
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Post by brigid on Jun 27, 2014 10:29:10 GMT
It is hardly surprising that the U21 teams have done so poorly given the management these players had at minor level.
I consider myself unfortunate to have seen the minors 3 times in Croke Park. Who will ever forget the games V Roscommon, Dublin and Tyrone?
Roscommon – the number of hand pass phases when Kerry tried to work the ball out defence in the second half at the Hogan Stand/Davin Stand end. This was just awful to watch. Kerry won this game but the Roscommon U21 of 2014 that lost the AI final included most of these minor players
Dublin – Kerry were attacking the Hill 16 goal and again lots of phases of “hold the ball”. And Kerry were not winning at this stage.
Tyrone – If ever I saw a game lost on the sideline, this was it. Indiscipline and no flair, Tyrone got Kerry into a tangle with their tactics and Kerry fell into their trap.
It looked in all 3 games that the games had to be played at a set pattern and no individual flair was allowed. Not a good way to manage minors.
Give me Davy Fitz’s type of management any day. Give the players direction but let them have flair and enjoy the game.
So it looks like at least 1 more bad year at U21 to come, with similar consequences at senior. I am amazed to see players of 22 or 23 years of age being referred to as “young fellows” in some of the comments in these forums. There will always be some exceptions but generally if players haven’t the ability and commitment at 21 to play senior inter-county football (and compete in an AI final) it is doubtful if they will ever have it.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jun 27, 2014 10:41:21 GMT
It is hardly surprising that the U21 teams have done so poorly given the management these players had at minor level. I consider myself unfortunate to have seen the minors 3 times in Croke Park. Who will ever forget the games V Roscommon, Dublin and Tyrone? Roscommon – the number of hand pass phases when Kerry tried to work the ball out defence in the second half at the Hogan Stand/Davin Stand end. This was just awful to watch. Kerry won this game but the Roscommon U21 of 2014 that lost the AI final included most of these minor players Dublin – Kerry were attacking the Hill 16 goal and again lots of phases of “hold the ball”. And Kerry were not winning at this stage. Tyrone – If ever I saw a game lost on the sideline, this was it. Indiscipline and no flair, Tyrone got Kerry into a tangle with their tactics and Kerry fell into their trap. It looked in all 3 games that the games had to be played at a set pattern and no individual flair was allowed. Not a good way to manage minors. Give me Davy Fitz’s type of management any day. Give the players direction but let them have flair and enjoy the game.So it looks like at least 1 more bad year at U21 to come, with similar consequences at senior. I am amazed to see players of 22 or 23 years of age being referred to as “young fellows” in some of the comments in these forums. There will always be some exceptions but generally if players haven’t the ability and commitment at 21 to play senior inter-county football (and compete in an AI final) it is doubtful if they will ever have it. lol Not a hope in hell that would have survived in Kerry last year! Weeshie + a dozen or more here would have been looking for blood this time last year if Kerry were Clare (knocked out of the Munster championship with little hope of AI success). Plenty would have called Podge Collins and Tony Kelly too small and light!!! I'd love too if fans and the bullsh!tters in the media would let a manager get on with the job if they were to try it that way...kinda goes back to what Paidi said all those years ago!!! lol
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Post by shannonsider on Jun 27, 2014 13:45:34 GMT
Pat O Driscoll deserves another shot at this level, in some capacity at least. Martin Horgan is also rumoured to be flashing his credentials towards a role as well although I reckon this could be a wind up It seems as if Pat is working his way up with the development squads, so fair enough if he gets another shot, he was very young first time around. Martin Horgan, I haven't heard much positive about from players that have worked with him, so can't see him at county level anytime soon.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 27, 2014 15:51:11 GMT
I have to say I am disappointed that Darragh has been given another crack at it. Surely someone else in the county of some proven calibre would have wanted it. I didnt mean to come accross as slating Pat O Driscoll I was just saying that he deserved his shot. I would have no problem him getting the U21 job. We need to take the U21 grads seriously and not use it as jobs for the boys.
Peter Keane has done a lot with South Kerry etc, I thought he would be a good candidate for the U21 manager job. I know hes not everyone's cup of tea but would someone like Liam Kearns be interested in it?
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Post by hesflyin on Jun 27, 2014 16:17:07 GMT
Maybe Martin horgan will come on board as an adviser in sport science similar to donie Buckley for all kerry teams.
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Post by shannonsider on Jun 27, 2014 16:34:22 GMT
Maybe Martin horgan will come on board as an adviser in sport science similar to donie Buckley for all kerry teams. The only thing Horgan and Buckley have in common is that they played for the same club. Buckley is not a sports scientist, he is a Coach..people still haven't grasped the difference between these 2 apparently. As I've stated already, have not heard great things about Horgan from team's he's been involved with. A long way off inter-county level yet I'd say.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 27, 2014 18:42:43 GMT
Are people serious about Martin Horgan? Kieran's were dire under him last year. He is no more a sport scientist than I am. If you listen to the interview he did on terrace talk last year you will see why he is definitely not inter countymaterial
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Post by ricky75 on Jun 27, 2014 22:38:43 GMT
Pat O Driscoll deserves another shot at this level, in some capacity at least. Martin Horgan is also rumoured to be flashing his credentials towards a role as well although I reckon this could be a wind up It seems as if Pat is working his way up with the development squads, so fair enough if he gets another shot, he was very young first time around. Martin Horgan, I haven't heard much positive about from players that have worked with him, so can't see him at county level anytime soon. Pat o Driscoll isn't involved with any of the development squads this year, was with the kerry north u14s last year alright. As for Martin Horgan he is a spoofer and hasn't achieved anything
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1955
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Post by 1955 on Jun 27, 2014 22:52:28 GMT
Let's hope that the new U21 management will not include some of the selectors that Dara had with him in the previous 2 terms.
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Post by givehimaball on Jun 28, 2014 11:06:04 GMT
Not even a hint of a whisper about the U21 and junior management being a joint operation?
Very poor in my opinion.
Given the vital role both play in developing players for the senior team it seem madness to me that 1 person isn't over both.
In a year like this where the U21s go out early, rather than have lads who are ineligible for the juniors and not yet ready for the seniors, you could at least have them involved in terms of training with the juniors on occasion.
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Post by hurlingman on Jun 28, 2014 11:44:02 GMT
Not even a hint of a whisper about the U21 and junior management being a joint operation? Very poor in my opinion. Given the vital role both play in developing players for the senior team it seem madness to me that 1 person isn't over both. In a year like this where the U21s go out early, rather than have lads who are ineligible for the juniors and not yet ready for the seniors, you could at least have them involved in terms of training with the juniors on occasion. Agreed. At least one of the under 21 selectors should be involved with them.
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Post by giveandgo on Jun 30, 2014 10:03:54 GMT
why was my comment removed im entitled to my opinion
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Jun 30, 2014 10:38:31 GMT
why was my comment removed im entitled to my opinion What did you say???
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 30, 2014 11:18:30 GMT
why was my comment removed im entitled to my opinion Not necessarily!
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Post by glengael on Jul 1, 2014 14:14:01 GMT
From the main page.
Darragh Ó Sé appointed as U21 Manager
At last nights County Committee Meeting Darragh Ó Sé, whose two year term expired with the defeat to Cork in the Munster Championship, was given a one year extension to his term as Trainer of the Kerry Under 21 Football Team. His Management team will be announced at the August meeting of County Committee.
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Post by dabomber on Aug 1, 2014 9:55:19 GMT
Heard it from a realible source that Pat Spillane will make up part of the back room team for Darragh o se
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 2, 2014 23:33:54 GMT
Not even a hint of a whisper about the U21 and junior management being a joint operation? Very poor in my opinion. Given the vital role both play in developing players for the senior team it seem madness to me that 1 person isn't over both. In a year like this where the U21s go out early, rather than have lads who are ineligible for the juniors and not yet ready for the seniors, you could at least have them involved in terms of training with the juniors on occasion. good idea to have the one management for both under 21 and junior. Or at the very least an overlap of selectors. 3rd year for Dara. Be bigger pressure for results next year at 21s. 3rd year and back to back munster minor title team feeding into the 21s
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 2, 2014 23:36:43 GMT
It seems as if Pat is working his way up with the development squads, so fair enough if he gets another shot, he was very young first time around. Martin Horgan, I haven't heard much positive about from players that have worked with him, so can't see him at county level anytime soon. Pat o Driscoll isn't involved with any of the development squads this year, was with the kerry north u14s last year alright. As for Martin Horgan he is a spoofer and hasn't achieved anything Pat Driscoll is with the St Brendans hurlers again this year. Is he over the Ardfert footballers as well?
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Post by buck02 on Aug 27, 2014 9:59:39 GMT
Seamus Moynihan confirmed as a selector for 2015.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 27, 2014 10:21:00 GMT
Seamus Moynihan confirmed as a selector for 2015. Good news for 2015.....
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Post by shannonsider on Aug 27, 2014 13:21:45 GMT
I hate to be negative, because Seamus was a fantastic player, but what coaching experience does he have? I'm afraid a lot of people still don't seem to realise how irrelevant playing ability is to effectiveness as a coach/manager. Having scored a sum total of 10 points from play in 120 mins over the last 2 years, to say nothing of the other problems we've had, it's clear that we needed better coaching. I would much rather somebody with a good bit of hands on coaching experience had been added to the back room staff to be honest.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 27, 2014 14:05:26 GMT
I hate to be negative, because Seamus was a fantastic player, but what coaching experience does he have? I'm afraid a lot of people still don't seem to realise how irrelevant playing ability is to effectiveness as a coach/manager. Having scored a sum total of 10 points from play in 120 mins over the last 2 years, to say nothing of the other problems we've had, it's clear that we needed better coaching. I would much rather somebody with a good bit of hands on coaching experience had been added to the back room staff to be honest. What coaching experience did Eamonn Fitzmaurice have when he landed the selectors job under Jack?
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Aug 27, 2014 14:13:00 GMT
I hate to be negative, because Seamus was a fantastic player, but what coaching experience does he have? I'm afraid a lot of people still don't seem to realise how irrelevant playing ability is to effectiveness as a coach/manager. Having scored a sum total of 10 points from play in 120 mins over the last 2 years, to say nothing of the other problems we've had, it's clear that we needed better coaching. I would much rather somebody with a good bit of hands on coaching experience had been added to the back room staff to be honest. What coaching experience did Eamonn Fitzmaurice have when he landed the selectors job under Jack? None...but Eamonn had Jack!!!! And it was Jack that had the experience! What Shannonsider was saying is that the coaching team needed an experienced coach added to it, not former great player; he makes a good point.
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