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Post by jackmurphy on Mar 13, 2014 9:32:38 GMT
Another night of frustration watching Kerry teams. It looked from the start that Cork were just bigger, stronger and faster than the Kerry players. In the first half Cork missed a lot of handy ones in the first half and the two goals kept Kerry in it. Corks greater physicality and fitness came to the fore in the last ten minutes when they just ran through Kerry time after time. I agree with the poster who said Cork had options off the bench and Kerry didn't. A feature of the first half, which continued into the second half was the very poor kick passing and link up play displayed by Kerry. As a player Darragh O Se was renowned for his accurate kick passing into the forwards. There was little evidence to show he had spent any amount of time getting his Kerry players to do the same. Our half forward line never provided an outlet between attack and defence and were well outplayed all through. Another area of concern was the kickouts, it was just a case of kicking it high into the middle of the field every time, despite the fact Cork totally dominated that area, the kickout "strategy" continued until the final minute. Hopefully the experience will stand to some of the younger players like Crowley, Horan, Keane, Spillane and others who are still eligible next year. Thomas Hickey was Kerrys best player but he is probably a bit light for the seniors. Padraig O Se showed good positional sense and cleaned up a lot of ball but made too many mistakes on it. James Crean did ok in the first half and kicked his frees. Other than that you couldn't really mention other Kerry players. Thanks for the report. From reading the newspaper reports and the comments of other BM's here - it looks as if Cork were far superior than the scoreline suggests. Kerry stayed in the game due to a great conversion rate by their forwards, a soft penalty and a bad defensive error leading to the well worked 1st goal - Kerry first wide was early in the 2nd half. Cork were able to over come the loss of a key player, Vaughan and another, O Driscoll, clearly unfit and very little prepartion by Cadogan who was concentrating on Senior Hurling - yet were able to win 'pulling -up' to use a Cheltenham Term. Kerry put huge emphasis on this game with a well respected manager who put in huge effort and was given good resourses and FitzMaurice didn't call on any U21's. No real injury worries so preparation could not have been much better. This Cork Side were well beaten by Tipp at minor grade but Cork seem to develop a lot in the 3 years to U21 - winning far more Munster U21 than Minor in the last 15 years. Where is the problem for Kerry ? In spite of the lack of underage success - Kerry are bringing some very promising players onto the Senior Side but as the 2nd Greatest Kerry Side (arguably) of all time, begins to break up - will the chickens come home to roost. Dublin and Cork seem to be the king pins at underage and both seem to be developing good young senior squads - Kerry must identify the problems but no one seems to know exactly what's wrong - Any ideas ?
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Post by buck02 on Mar 13, 2014 10:10:56 GMT
After last night, this squad will break up and never train together again. This is wrong. For anybody who cant make the seniors, they should be kept together for the rest of the year and trained weekly over every 2 weeks at most and kept on a monitored weights/conditioning programme. Also the eligible players should make up the core of the junior squad this year. Something needs to be done and quick. We have fallen behind countless other counties in terms of how our young teams are prepared, this is despite the resources pumped into development squads in recent years. If ever there was a year we needed a minor team to make waves in the championship its this year. If they don't then serious question need to be asked and fingers need to be pointed in the relevant direction.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
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Post by fivenarow on Mar 13, 2014 10:21:44 GMT
I was at the game last night & even before the game started you could see that Cork were physically bigger & stronger than our guys. In fairness we were lucky to be up 3 pts at half time - the first was bundled over the line & the penalty came from a very dubious decision by the ref & this was after a Cork player kicked a simple free over the sideline in the build up so the ball should have been down the other end in the first place. I thought that we were very poor around the middle of the field & the half forward line was non existant - we definately needed changes in these areas sooner. I felt sorry for our full back line who were under constant pressure due to the problems in our centre field & half forward area & McEoin & Cadogan seemed to score at will when they got the ball, but it was hard to mark someone who was getting 70/30 ball all the time - Cadogan who scored 5 pts wasnt even picked on the team & only came in as a late replacement for Vaughan. The positives were Thomas Hickey who seemed to be our only threat up front in the second half once James Crean got tired plus they were living off very little ball as Cork were winning the midfield / half forward battle. I thought that Padraig Og did well but was guilty as were a few others of giving away a few simple balls.Corks bench was better than ours plus I thought that our sideline was far too slow making needed changes - I cant understand how you can let a goal keeper boom ball after ball down the middle when you are being beaten in both the air & for the breaks time after time - doing the same thing day after day & expecting a different result is the first signs of madness??? At the end of the day the best team won but with a bit of cuteness we could have sneaked a win - on the basis of last night I dont think Cork are anything special either but that win will stand to them.
On a more serious note I hope that the guy who fell ill outside the ground is ok.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Mar 13, 2014 10:24:54 GMT
I would think the Kerry performance this year was far worst this then last year. Training was meant to have gone very well and no injuries. Cork had a good few injuries, drafted Cadogan in (who didnt even do much football training this year) and still come out on top.
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Post by Corner Back on Mar 13, 2014 10:34:35 GMT
Most of the responsibility must fall on the management. Too slow to make changes. It was obvious that one of our full back line (think it is not fair to name names) was in trouble after the first point but was not switched until 8 minutes to go. Also it was obvious we were lucky to be ahead at half time but it was Cork that made two changes at half time. Cork were making their fifth change when Kerry made their second!
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Post by buck02 on Mar 13, 2014 10:59:41 GMT
Most of the responsibility must fall on the management. Too slow to make changes. It was obvious that one of our full back line (think it is not fair to name names) was in trouble after the first point but was not switched until 8 minutes to go. Also it was obvious we were lucky to be ahead at half time but it was Cork that made two changes at half time. Cork were making their fifth change when Kerry made their second! Agree with most of that (especially about the slowness to make changes) but in fairness, a change was made in the full back line after the 2nd attack, when Crowley was switched onto Cadogan after McGuire started on him. Given the ball that McEoin got on the end of and lack of options on the bench (one or two backs max) there probably wasnt a better player to mark him.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 13, 2014 11:06:54 GMT
I was also at the game last night and it's no exaggeration to say that if Cork had won by 10 or more points they would not have been flattered by it. The best team by a country mile won. Hugely disappointing show by Kerry and even more so by Darragh & Co on the line. The whole full-back line was destroyed from the word go and as Corner Back alluded to above, one lad in particular was given an absolute lesson. However no change was made there. The half-back line were very poor. Morley in particular got on a pile of ball but the kick passing inside to the full-forward line was horrendous. There was no footballing intelligence displayed whatsoever. Páidí Óg looked lost at centre-back and didn't contribute much. Maybe he would've been more comfortable inside the full-back line?
The lads at midfield tried but weren't able to impose themselves physically. I expected alot more from Murphy. Cork cleaned up all the breaks, especially in the second period.
Half-forward line was non-existent and were all replaced. The full-forward line was lively but were starved of decent supply. Any ball they did get they looked lively. Hickey was fed alot of ball and won a very soft penalty, but was thrown off the ball far too easily. Conor Keane was introduced too late. I was surprised to not see Jack Savage get a run.
The ref made some strange decisions on both sides, possibly giving Kerry a few very soft frees but his use of the advantage rule was all over the place.
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Post by jackmurphy on Mar 13, 2014 12:23:17 GMT
I was also at the game last night and it's no exaggeration to say that if Cork had won by 10 or more points they would not have been flattered by it. The best team by a country mile won. Hugely disappointing show by Kerry and even more so by Darragh & Co on the line. The whole full-back line was destroyed from the word go and as Corner Back alluded to above, one lad in particular was given an absolute lesson. However no change was made there. The half-back line were very poor. Morley in particular got on a pile of ball but the kick passing inside to the full-forward line was horrendous. There was no footballing intelligence displayed whatsoever. Páidí Óg looked lost at centre-back and didn't contribute much. Maybe he would've been more comfortable inside the full-back line? The lads at midfield tried but weren't able to impose themselves physically. I expected alot more from Murphy. Cork cleaned up all the breaks, especially in the second period. Half-forward line was non-existent and were all replaced. The full-forward line was lively but were starved of decent supply. Any ball they did get they looked lively. Hickey was fed alot of ball and won a very soft penalty, but was thrown off the ball far too easily. Conor Keane was introduced too late. I was surprised to not see Jack Savage get a run. The ref made some strange decisions on both sides, possibly giving Kerry a few very soft frees but his use of the advantage rule was all over the place. There is a possibility that this will be viewed by many supporters as a good effort, just falling short. However, a few years ago, Cork gave Kerry an unmerciful hammering and this prompted a huge outcry from supporters and CB Officials alike and in fairness, Dara O Se was appointed U21 Manager and given every resourse possible. However, as some of us have posted - Cork's preparation wasn't as good - several players have been involved and played in the NFL - injuries affected 2 players and Cadogan had no preparation (training or practice games) - Add in that Cork missed a few scorable frees and there was an element of good fortune in Kerry's two goals - this defeat was, in reality, just as severe as the hammering already referred to. Cork scored 18 pts but missed a fair few chances and frees - Kerry scored 8 pts but converted almost every chance - the Ref probably cost Cork a few scores too - Tipp scored 19 pts against a poor Waterford side. This was more comprehensive than a 0-4 deficit suggests - every effort has been made in recent seasons to improve things at u21 level but it seems that little ot no progress has been made. It's easy to blame Darragh but if the players aren't there - what can he do ? - I don't know the answers but it looks as if there are problems as some level.
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Post by glengael on Mar 13, 2014 13:21:49 GMT
However, a few years ago, Cork gave Kerry an unmerciful hammering and this prompted a huge outcry from supporters and CB Officials alike and in fairness, Dara O Se was appointed U21 Manager and given every resourse possible
Not quite. After the 2011 debacle Eamon Fitzmaurice was appointed, Darragh was a selector.He has only been manager for 12 and 13.
In 2012,we did not draw Cork in the first round and played at least 1 if not 2 games to get to the Munster Final. The game went to extra time in Tralee and we were in contention right to the very end. I firmly believe those extra games were of some assistance. In the last 2 years, we've had Cork in the first round when we could really have done with a semi-final and more game time.
We have 20 years of failure behind us at minor level so very many players are coming through, and have come through, winning nothing in a Kerry jersey. With Club and school maybe, but nothing in a county jersey and as someone posted earlier, once they're overage for u-21 they are gone from any hope of senior county action. (Unless they are lucky enough to be in college and can keep up their profile in Sigerson etc or are exceptional talents like Colm Cooper or Declan O'Sullivan.)
Its no coincidence that the closest we came to winning a Minor in recent years in 2006, was followed by an u-21 title in 08 which featured many of the same personnel.
Underage success is no guarantee of senior success and yes, I know lots of counties have squandered successes. But not all. Look at Clare hurlers and what they have built at senior all based on the work done in winning underage titles against the so-called "elite" of Munster and national hurling.
We really, really have to break the cycle of failure in order to give ourselves any chance in the long term. Over to you JOC.
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Post by homerj on Mar 13, 2014 13:24:32 GMT
2 Munter u-21 titles now in 15 years, that is simply astonishing and very very poor.
in that time Cork have won 10. at minor level, we have won 8 out of 14, Cork only 4 so that poses the question, what on earth is happening to our talent from 18-21...we are facing a huge crisis in kerry football and this is the first thing we need to look at. no point bringing these lads into development squads from 15-17 (and no minor title in 19 years suggests this is not working either) if they just collapse at 18.
over to the county board now to do a study of all our top footballers of aged 18-21 over the past 10 years and see what happened them. need to avoid it happening starting right now.
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Post by lár na páirce on Mar 13, 2014 17:21:35 GMT
Very dissapointed with last night,Would of expected more from Darragh's men,The goals and wayward shooting from Cork kept it close.
Nathan Breen i thought came more and more into it and maybe should of been brought out further the field.Crowley was roasted by Cadogan,Padraigh Ó Conchúir had a decent game,Bursting through a few tackles a looks a decent bit of stuff. Was impressed with Padraig O Sé played a loose centre back role and did very well there.
Midfield did nothing for me,Neithir did the half forward line,Shame because you would feel the players named there were good enough.
Thomas Hickey was probably Kerrys man of the match,James Crean i thought was very good in the first half,His movement and pass for the goal was super.Keating did OK as well Maybe should of been switched to the 40.
Dissapointed the line didnt change things around earlier but in reality the work wasnt done with the guys up to now.
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KY50
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Post by KY50 on Mar 13, 2014 17:28:27 GMT
Homerj, Agree totally with you
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Post by dabomber on Mar 13, 2014 17:36:49 GMT
Very dissapointed with last night,Would of expected more from Darragh's men,The goals and wayward shooting from Cork kept it close. Nathan Breen i thought came more and more into it and maybe should of been brought out further the field.Crowley was roasted by Cadogan,Padraigh Ó Conchúir had a decent game,Bursting through a few tackles a looks a decent bit of stuff. Was impressed with Padraig O Sé played a loose centre back role and did very well there.Midfield did nothing for me,Neithir did the half forward line,Shame because you would feel the players named there were good enough. Thomas Hickey was probably Kerrys man of the match,James Crean i thought was very good in the first half,His movement and pass for the goal was super.Keating did OK as well Maybe should of been switched to the 40. Dissapointed the line didnt change things around earlier but in reality the work wasnt done with the guys up to now. He definitely played a loose centre back role because he was nowhere near his man for the entire game
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Post by shannonsider on Mar 13, 2014 21:40:14 GMT
"THIS POST IS PENDING APPROVAL BY STAFF"..Seeing that a lot here these days. Is free speech and intelligent criticism still allowed here?
I appreciate that it's easy to be a hurler on the ditch, especially to criticise in hindsight, but given the performances these past 2 years there have to be questions asked of the management in my view. I think Cork had a very strong team and panel, so maybe they would have won regardless, but I don't believe the squad and team were prepared as well as possible or well selected. Many people mentioned the half forward line before the game, 3 players who have very limited experience of the roles they were asked to play..3 of them substituted last night. There were other strange choices like Jack Savage not being used at all, how slowly changes that were obvious got made etc. Even before the game, the naming of a player in the matchday squad who wasn't even in the 30 man squad named earlier looked odd.
My main issue though, is not with all that. Selection issues are the job of management and they can be tight calls or calls made in the heat of battle that go either way. They are important, but can be difficult.
What is even more important though is the coaching and proper conditioning of the squad and to me, that has been well below par this year and last year. Some of our shooting last year was appalling, we only scored 7 points, 5 from play (plus 2 goals) in 60 mins and yet still only lost to a last minute point. Fair enough, one off performance you say.
Then we get the same thing last night, only 5 points from play with 2 goals (1 from a dubious penalty, the other a goalmouth scramble) over the hour again. You'd have to call the coaching into serious question. I'm told most of the training was done by a guy who is an athletics coach? He may well be a great athletics coach, but this year AND last, our players have been outpaced, outmuscled and outplayed as a result far too often, so whatever he is doing is questionable in my mind.
I was also unhappy to see a Kerry selector in the Examiner today basically putting all the blame on the players and mentioning mistakes made in challenge games. If mistakes were made, surely it is the managements repsonsibility to identify and rectify them. Regardless, washing your dirty laundry in public like that when involved with underage teams is not right.
6 years without even a Munster under 21 title is poor, but it's not the end of the world if you are bringing players through a good coaching and training system along the way. I don't think we're doing even that at the moment.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 13, 2014 21:51:30 GMT
Strange kind of a game where a better Cork team never really chewed Kerry, which begs the question, how good are Cork? Apart from a 3-5 minute spell 20 minutes into the second half when Cork raced into a three point and effectively closed the door on Kerry.
A poster on this forum recently pointed out the lack of size, physicality and athleticism across recent minor and under 21 teams and now the Kerry senior team also.
Hyperbole aside and the wax lyrical burning of various management setups at the stake, the obvious observation suggests that Kerry are not producing collections of big athletic young footballers in recent times.
Of course people loved to blame Micko for the famine and the failure to bring new talent through. Should we now blame Jack, Pat, Jack again and now Eamonn for not bringing young quality player in? I doubt it, the game goes in circles, quality generations of great players come and go.
If I'm not mistaken, was James O'Donoghue not on the Kerry u21 team that got toasted by Cork 3 or 4 years ago in the Munster Final?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 13, 2014 22:50:48 GMT
Eamonn must be commended for bringing in young players. Jack was slow to do so and Mickey Ned walked out of Mickos set up because of the lack of young players being brought along.....if memory serves me right.
Pat OShea brought in Tommy Walsh and rescued Seamus Scanlon from obscurity. He also brought on Reidy and Younng so that cant be faulted for a one years term.
Cavan are going for 4 in a row in Ulster u21s. Will they benefit at senior level from it.
Kerry Collages have it over Cork.
No poster has said that Cork were more skillful that Kerry last night.
Kerry need to find 2 marquee players in each of the next 4 years in my opinion. Some of these are known already. Tisnt all bad.
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martym
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Post by martym on Mar 13, 2014 23:29:22 GMT
Eamonn must be commended for bringing in young players. Jack was slow to do so and Mickey Ned walked out of Mickos set up because of the lack of young players being brought along.....if memory serves me right. Pat OShea brought in Tommy Walsh and rescued Seamus Scanlon from obscurity. He also brought on Reidy and Younng so that cant be faulted for a one years term. Cavan are going for 4 in a row in Ulster u21s. Will they benefit at senior level from it. Kerry Collages have it over Cork. No poster has said that Cork were more skillful that Kerry last night. Kerry need to find 2 marquee players in each of the next 4 years in my opinion. Some of these are known already. Tisnt all bad. I agree Mick not as bad as people make out
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 13, 2014 23:31:55 GMT
Post I was commenting on was deleted.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Mar 14, 2014 0:06:06 GMT
Another night of frustration watching Kerry teams. It looked from the start that Cork were just bigger, stronger and faster than the Kerry players. In the first half Cork missed a lot of handy ones in the first half and the two goals kept Kerry in it. Corks greater physicality and fitness came to the fore in the last ten minutes when they just ran through Kerry time after time. I agree with the poster who said Cork had options off the bench and Kerry didn't. A feature of the first half, which continued into the second half was the very poor kick passing and link up play displayed by Kerry. As a player Darragh O Se was renowned for his accurate kick passing into the forwards. There was little evidence to show he had spent any amount of time getting his Kerry players to do the same. Our half forward line never provided an outlet between attack and defence and were well outplayed all through. Another area of concern was the kickouts, it was just a case of kicking it high into the middle of the field every time, despite the fact Cork totally dominated that area, the kickout "strategy" continued until the final minute. Hopefully the experience will stand to some of the younger players like Crowley, Horan, Keane, Spillane and others who are still eligible next year. Thomas Hickey was Kerrys best player but he is probably a bit light for the seniors. Padraig O Se showed good positional sense and cleaned up a lot of ball but made too many mistakes on it. James Crean did ok in the first half and kicked his frees. Other than that you couldn't really mention other Kerry players. Thanks for the report. From reading the newspaper reports and the comments of other BM's here - it looks as if Cork were far superior than the scoreline suggests. Kerry stayed in the game due to a great conversion rate by their forwards, a soft penalty and a bad defensive error leading to the well worked 1st goal - Kerry first wide was early in the 2nd half. Cork were able to over come the loss of a key player, Vaughan and another, O Driscoll, clearly unfit and very little prepartion by Cadogan who was concentrating on Senior Hurling - yet were able to win 'pulling -up' to use a Cheltenham Term. Kerry put huge emphasis on this game with a well respected manager who put in huge effort and was given good resourses and FitzMaurice didn't call on any U21's. No real injury worries so preparation could not have been much better. This Cork Side were well beaten by Tipp at minor grade but Cork seem to develop a lot in the 3 years to U21 - winning far more Munster U21 than Minor in the last 15 years. Where is the problem for Kerry ? In spite of the lack of underage success - Kerry are bringing some very promising players onto the Senior Side but as the 2nd Greatest Kerry Side (arguably) of all time, begins to break up - will the chickens come home to roost. Dublin and Cork seem to be the king pins at underage and both seem to be developing good young senior squads - Kerry must identify the problems but no one seems to know exactly what's wrong - Any ideas ? You mention Alan Cadogan and the hurling Funny the way a part time footballer who has been the senior hurlers the last few weeks and has divided up his time all his career beteen two codes can run rings around our lads who play football only. Perhaps the practice of encouraging lads to jack in hurling when they are 16 or 17 in this county when they are good at both should be discontinued. Our record at under 21 couldn't get any worse as a result
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Mar 14, 2014 0:11:10 GMT
Eamonn must be commended for bringing in young players. Jack was slow to do so and Mickey Ned walked out of Mickos set up because of the lack of young players being brought along.....if memory serves me right. Pat OShea brought in Tommy Walsh and rescued Seamus Scanlon from obscurity. He also brought on Reidy and Younng so that cant be faulted for a one years term. Cavan are going for 4 in a row in Ulster u21s. Will they benefit at senior level from it. Kerry Collages have it over Cork. No poster has said that Cork were more skillful that Kerry last night. Kerry need to find 2 marquee players in each of the next 4 years in my opinion. Some of these are known already. Tisnt all bad. Eamonn gave plenty young players a chance in last years league and they did not cut the mustard. He has given plenty a chance again this year. Cavan's resurgence in Ulster minor and under 21s is already reaping dividends for them at senior. Beat Armagh in Ulster last year and reached an All Ireland QF. That's big progress and expect more to come.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Mar 14, 2014 0:16:43 GMT
2 Munter u-21 titles now in 15 years, that is simply astonishing and very very poor. in that time Cork have won 10. at minor level, we have won 8 out of 14, Cork only 4 so that poses the question, what on earth is happening to our talent from 18-21...we are facing a huge crisis in kerry football and this is the first thing we need to look at. no point bringing these lads into development squads from 15-17 (and no minor title in 19 years suggests this is not working either) if they just collapse at 18. over to the county board now to do a study of all our top footballers of aged 18-21 over the past 10 years and see what happened them. need to avoid it happening starting right now. it is astonishing and very very poor. Cannot hide behind the whole it doesn't matter as long as you bring through a player or two every year line anymore. The fact is we are not and we are slipping down the pecking order at senior level I cant figure out where it is going wrong. Football has little or no competition for players from hurling in the county, the secondary schools all promote football especially in the big populations centres, time and money is put into minor and 21 squads, we have a good co board. Really is hard to fathom and very worrying
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Post by shannonsider on Mar 14, 2014 7:59:08 GMT
2 Munter u-21 titles now in 15 years, that is simply astonishing and very very poor. in that time Cork have won 10. at minor level, we have won 8 out of 14, Cork only 4 so that poses the question, what on earth is happening to our talent from 18-21...we are facing a huge crisis in kerry football and this is the first thing we need to look at. no point bringing these lads into development squads from 15-17 (and no minor title in 19 years suggests this is not working either) if they just collapse at 18. over to the county board now to do a study of all our top footballers of aged 18-21 over the past 10 years and see what happened them. need to avoid it happening starting right now. it is astonishing and very very poor. Cannot hide behind the whole it doesn't matter as long as you bring through a player or two every year line anymore. The fact is we are not and we are slipping down the pecking order at senior level I cant figure out where it is going wrong. Football has little or no competition for players from hurling in the county, the secondary schools all promote football especially in the big populations centres, time and money is put into minor and 21 squads, we have a good co board. Really is hard to fathom and very worrying Where it is all going wrong is the standard of coaching at minor, under 21 and schools level. The best intentions and all the money in the world are useless if you don't have the right people involved with our county teams and comprehensive and extensive coaching structures in the schools behind that. Dublin have produced many players ready to step up to the senior team at 19-20 years of age. This year and last, we haven't had a single member of the under 21 panels in contention for the senior squad. People can talk about a slump in the quality of player, which may be a factor..but a bigger factor is the lack of proper coaching, including proper strength and conditioning programs. People may think this is easy to say the week of a defeat but there has definitely been some substandard coaching and management teams in charge of underage teams in Kerry in the last 5 years. That is the reason for night like Wednesday and the under 21 game last year..and the debacle of 2011 in Pairc ui Rinn when a squad we now know contained 13 players capable of playing Kerry senior to some degree were beaten by 24 points. It would appear with development squads at least over the last year or 2, this is changing for the better somewhat, but it will take time to full turn things around. Hopefully starting with this year's minors.
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Post by greengold35 on Mar 14, 2014 8:49:08 GMT
Previous post is spot on in relation to former poor management teams; when we won the U-21 in 2008 with Sean Geaney in charge we had a ready made replacement to take over in Jerome Stack in 2009 but though willing and able he was passed over for John Kennedy- a great opportunity lost as Stack was a proven operator at club level and is now involved in Laois- its guys like this we should have been appointing instead of letting them slip through the net.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 14, 2014 9:52:17 GMT
Previous post is spot on in relation to former poor management teams; when we won the U-21 in 2008 with Sean Geaney in charge we had a ready made replacement to take over in Jerome Stack in 2009 but though willing and able he was passed over for John Kennedy- a great opportunity lost as Stack was a proven operator at club level and is now involved in Laois- its guys like this we should have been appointing instead of letting them slip through the net. Appointing John Kennedy- even reading that sentence makes me recoil in horror. I wonder had anyone actually observed his coaching/plans for player development when appointing him- I worked with him and his methods were pre-historic. Get stuck in/ hit them, etc was the team talk- no tactics or game plan
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Post by leesider on Mar 14, 2014 11:23:18 GMT
I was at the game and I am not posting here to gloat. I was pleased with the result but it has been said before that a lack of success at U-21 level does not always lead to the same outcome at senior level. I think I am right in saying that Colm Cooper, Declan Sullivan and Kieran Donaghy all played on an U-21 team that were beaten by Waterford? We have beaten ye four years in a row now at U-21 but this is Cork football remember; we are noted for underachieving. I see that some of the lads on here are putting the win down to us having bigger, stronger players than ye. That is not true and ye know it. Being big and strong is not enough on its own. You have to be able to play a bit as well.
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Post by delorean on Mar 14, 2014 12:25:02 GMT
No poster has said that Cork were more skillful that Kerry last night. Fair play Mick Mac! It's easier to put it down to strength and conditioning than to consider that ghastly notion though. I was standing in front of Weeshie's commentary box and only when the game was going away from Kerry on the scoreboard were the famous "bigger, stronger, more athletic" terms brought into play. Don't get me wrong, I like Weeshie and find him very fair overall. It just seems to be the default line of argument when discussing Kerry v Cork at underage and Weeshie possibly even meant it as a compliment, but it's not really. Kildare U21's were glorified for being unstoppable supersized athletes last year and were hot favourites going into their semi final against Galway. It didn't count for too much when they came up against a more intelligent, superior footballing team.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 14, 2014 12:37:16 GMT
I'm not that surprised that Cork lads (and lassies) here cant even take a compliment without getting their backs up.
The fact that Cork managed to pull away in the last ten minutes by constantly running through Kerry would in my opinion indicate they were fitter and stronger than our lads. The only point I can remember where a guy took on his direct man and put it over was the number 12 (who stood about 8 inches taller than Padraig Og) went inside to his left and put it over from 35 yards. Now that was a skillful point. They also had a game plan which centred around getting MacEoin and Cadogan on the ball where they would do the damage. Kerry seemed to have no such game plan. However I imagine the Cork manager will be alarmed with the amount of "unforced" errors his team made, like kicking the ball over the sideline (around 5 times) and missing frees (two of which ended up going wide of the netting behind the goals).
All people at the game who posted here remarked about Kerrys poor kick passing. Which means we thought Kerry lacked one of the basic skills of the game.
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Post by delorean on Mar 14, 2014 12:49:38 GMT
So one skilful point out of eighteen and the rest were down to brute force... case closed.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 14, 2014 13:59:42 GMT
So one skilful point out of eighteen and the rest were down to brute force... case closed. I should have made my point better, I was referring to Corks period of ascendency in the 2nd half I suppose. Off the top of my head Cadogan kicked a lovely point from the stand side in the first half, ditto MacEoin from the other side at the end of the 1st half. Not all points were down to brute force, but the end of the game resembled a 15 v 14 which indicates a superior fitness and conditioning by the cork side. At this level, if your not fast and strong enough you are not going to get a chance to show off your skills. For me in the 2nd half, Cork didn't need to show off too many skills, they were able to brush the Kerry team aside and go straight for goal on lots of occasions.
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Post by shannonsider on Mar 14, 2014 15:03:42 GMT
Lads some of this stuff is delusional. We were beaten by a better team, beaten more comfortably than the scoreboard would suggest in my view. This talk of bigger or stronger Cork lads is pathetic.
How about we focus on why for the second year running our team scored only 5 pts from play in an hour instead of talking nonsense about Cork?
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