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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 28, 2013 11:33:53 GMT
What I meant about Keane is that he currently looks stronger and more like a senior I suppose than the likes of Savage or Spillane. The crucial aspect of developing these guys this year and next (if they are not making U21 or seniors panels) seems to have been overlooked once again this year. Now the county board can only look after so much at once and maybe they concentrated on the minor review this year along with Currans/IT development but something has to be done here. I very much agree with your latter point- a comprehensive review of the structures that facilitate the process of getting players from minor county standard to senior county standard needs to take place. I think there were about 6/7 from last years team who have a chance of making it but it will depend on how they physically develop over the next few years and also to what extent they are exposed to a higher standard of football
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Nov 28, 2013 11:37:17 GMT
Agree completely. Last year's minors who dont't make this years u21 squad are not brought into any training program and are sent back to their clubs. It is hoped they will make the u21s the year after. Some of these lads are returning to poor club setups and are then expected to have improved enough to make the u21s the following year. Only exceptional minors make the straight step up to u21s.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Nov 28, 2013 11:49:02 GMT
Agree completely. Last year's minors who dont't make this years u21 squad are not brought into any training program and are sent back to their clubs. It is hoped they will make the u21s the year after. Some of these lads are returning to poor club setups and are then expected to have improved enough to make the u21s the following year. Only exceptional minors make the straight step up to u21s. Exactly and for those who arent attending a college with a decent sports set-up there isnt much of a hope! I know there are plans for collaboration but the county board should really be putting a lot of effort into the 3rd level scene and working very closely with the IT and also looking to forge stronger links with UCC & UL. I know having Tomas in UCC will be a positive but there is no end to the amount of work that can be done. Look at the Dublin side- it is backboned by lads on sports scholarships in DCU and DIT- lads who are have been more or less getting full time, top level training for 5/6 years
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 28, 2013 14:13:16 GMT
Agree completely. Last year's minors who dont't make this years u21 squad are not brought into any training program and are sent back to their clubs. It is hoped they will make the u21s the year after. Some of these lads are returning to poor club setups and are then expected to have improved enough to make the u21s the following year. Only exceptional minors make the straight step up to u21s. The funny things is that from next year on, these minors will be returning to clubs that they may not have trained with for well over a year! It a poor system that really. Prioritise's the county team ahead of the player and then the club.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 28, 2013 18:07:46 GMT
Conor Keane looks like someone with the potential to make a Kerry senior. I can't see any of this years minors making the Kerry senior team in 2014.
Dublin's three young players we under 20 this year, not u19, all faded as the championship moved into the business end post July.
The gap between minor and making the u21 team will become a lot more pronounced and a bigger problem if minor is changed to u17. County development squads will possibly have to look at u19 training/development squads to bridge the gap.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 28, 2013 18:13:43 GMT
Maybe I am wrong but Jack Savage strikes me as a guy who could handle the step up without too much bother. A bit like the way Declan and Colm could.
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cool1
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Post by cool1 on Nov 28, 2013 18:36:33 GMT
To be fair the most promising minors are usually in with the U21 training squad even on their first year out of minor grade. Even if they don't make the final cut they will be on specific training programmes. You will usually find with only a few exceptions that players not getting on this training squad will not be capable of playing at senior level either. This may sound harsh but IMO this is reality. The general consensus is that you will be lucky to get 2/3 players a year with the ability to move on to senior level. On average there would be 6/7 U19s in U21 training squad.
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Post by The16thMan on Nov 28, 2013 20:23:38 GMT
Jack Savage should figure prominently in Eamonns plans in 2014 I would agree with you mick, I know this may seem harsh but I would have him in the starting 15 over Paul Galvin as Paul does too much holding up of the ball and Jacks free taking skills would be a very valuable asset to the team.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Nov 28, 2013 21:05:23 GMT
Jack Savage should figure prominently in Eamonns plans in 2014 I would agree with you mick, I know this may seem harsh but I would have him in the starting 15 over Paul Galvin as Paul does too much holding up of the ball and Jacks free taking skills would be a very valuable asset to the team. I find this hilarious. If I was a back marking Jack the one thing id do is run the legs off him. Isn't renowned for defensive qualities and be interesting to see how he'd do chasing his man around
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 28, 2013 22:00:38 GMT
Maybe I am wrong but Jack Savage strikes me as a guy who could handle the step up without too much bother. A bit like the way Declan and Colm could. He's a tough little fu$ker!! I've been impressed any time I've seen him during the county championship, strikes me as someone who doesn't get phased by the big occasion.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Nov 28, 2013 22:09:19 GMT
Jack Savage should figure prominently in Eamonns plans in 2014 I would agree with you mick, I know this may seem harsh but I would have him in the starting 15 over Paul Galvin as Paul does too much holding up of the ball and Jacks free taking skills would be a very valuable asset to the team. Ah lads please...is it the silly season again? Jack is promising but, straight into the starting 15, replacing Paul Galvin? His performance against Crokes in the Co.Champ would indicate a learning curve remaining to be travelled...hardly surprising at his age, so no need to push him too far, too soon.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 28, 2013 22:52:39 GMT
I would agree with you mick, I know this may seem harsh but I would have him in the starting 15 over Paul Galvin as Paul does too much holding up of the ball and Jacks free taking skills would be a very valuable asset to the team. Ah lads please...is it the silly season again? Jack is promising but, straight into the starting 15, replacing Paul Galvin? His performance against Crokes in the Co.Champ would indicate a learning curve remaining to be travelled...hardly surprising at his age, so no need to push him too far, too soon. hey Joxer. Maybe performances against Crokes are a bad barometer! In that they made everyone look poor the way they steamrolled to the Kerry Championship. lets see how he goes with the under 21s in the spring would be my position on the matter.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 29, 2013 7:54:34 GMT
Generally speaking I think that players with clear potential like Jack should be called up to the scene sooner. I think Fionn is 23 now. Who here thinks that he wouldn't have done a good job for say 30 mins against Dublin in 2011. Look at Clare... several players are in or around 20. Anyone could see that Fionn had it at 18, he just needed to fill out but what harm would it have done to bring him in then and bring him on a bit quicker.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Nov 29, 2013 13:28:33 GMT
Generally speaking I think that players with clear potential like Jack should be called up to the scene sooner. I think Fionn is 23 now. Who here thinks that he wouldn't have done a good job for say 30 mins against Dublin in 2011. Look at Clare... several players are in or around 20. Anyone could see that Fionn had it at 18, he just needed to fill out but what harm would it have done to bring him in then and bring him on a bit quicker. Who did? lol Fionn is a great player now, but I don't think he would have got there any quicker by simply playing him with the Kerry seniors. Some people can be late developers, things worked perfectly for Fionn, he was able to improve on the back of his clubs success. Don't think he would have done much against the Dubs in 2011, actually for all we know he could have been the Jack Sherwood of 2011 with many Kerry fans criticising him unfairly! Some players just need us all to be patient!
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Post by himself on Nov 29, 2013 18:01:13 GMT
Jack has serious potential but it is only potential. Nowhere close to the starting 15 for next year. Starting ahead of Paul Galvin? The world is made up of differing opinions and that one is definitely a bit different to me! I'd expect Kieran Murphy to be knocking around the panel. What about Niall Sheehy or Jamie Moriarty for Mitchels? These were excellent young players, I don't know much about their current form. Ciaran Keating was one of the best minors I have seen but he seems to have dropped below the radar; I think he was in the States for a while but don't know. I don't think people realise what an absolutely massive step up from minor the Kerry seniors are; it's the difference between a boreen and a dual carriageway. I also think that the intensity of modern training methods, the increase in physicality in the game, and the sheer breadth of modern playing schedules means that the days of teenagers stepping straight into inter-county senior are pretty much over. Seamus Moynihan is the last player I can remember playing senior for Kerry whie in secondary school; I don't think we'll see it again.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Nov 29, 2013 23:10:16 GMT
It's such a difficult barometer to gauge the potential senior team players via analysis of the minors. Are the metrics used to define and select a minor identical to that to select a senior? What is difference between the end product? Strength and mental maturity stand out. On the former, maybe there is too much focus on size at minors resulting in players that from a skill, speed and character perspective will not make it at senior level. Acknowledging you can't have two whippets in midfield in a minor team. I'm just hopping balls here. I don't think there's a magic bullet to optimize the potential here. Tweaks maybe to existing methods. I would hope is that the core tenets of identifying a possible elite player especially at minor level are: - hands/fielding - hands/passing - speed. Possibly the ultra weapon in today's game - both feet/kicking passing/shooting "Both" not compulsory but most optimal - soloing. Do teams train running and soloing on alternate hand/foot, increase the ability to fend off a tackle getting more of the body between opponent and the football. Very common in soccer - balance. I think training should have increased emphasis on this to help with tackling and taking on a man, allowing more explosive and acute movements - composure - the player who embraces the game without fear of outcome or failure. Difficult one to cut and dry identify. - temperament - fire in the belly, ice in the head(I borrowed that one ?) - attitude. See Donnacha Walsh. At this point size, strength/power. Is it unreasonable to suggest that these two attributes are too high up the checklist? There are many attributes to make a top player. Hopefully scouts/selectors are considering them all.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Nov 30, 2013 10:18:23 GMT
Ah lads please...is it the silly season again? Jack is promising but, straight into the starting 15, replacing Paul Galvin? His performance against Crokes in the Co.Champ would indicate a learning curve remaining to be travelled...hardly surprising at his age, so no need to push him too far, too soon. hey Joxer. Maybe performances against Crokes are a bad barometer! In that they made everyone look poor the way they steamrolled to the Kerry Championship. lets see how he goes with the under 21s in the spring would be my position on the matter. Agree completely regarding the U21s Mossie. Stepping up to the seniors is a whole different ball game...in that sense, the Crokes game is not a bad barometer I would suggest. Equally, its a bit much to expect Jack to be lighting up the pitch in such a game. If he did great but if he didn't, and he didn't, he will have learned a lot from it and much still remains to be learned. As long as hes brought a long in his development and not tossed in too early, potential can be realised with Jack I'd say.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 30, 2013 10:29:32 GMT
Jack has serious potential but it is only potential. Nowhere close to the starting 15 for next year. Starting ahead of Paul Galvin? The world is made up of differing opinions and that one is definitely a bit different to me! I'd expect Kieran Murphy to be knocking around the panel. What about Niall Sheehy or Jamie Moriarty for Mitchels? These were excellent young players, I don't know much about their current form. Ciaran Keating was one of the best minors I have seen but he seems to have dropped below the radar; I think he was in the States for a while but don't know. I don't think people realise what an absolutely massive step up from minor the Kerry seniors are; it's the difference between a boreen and a dual carriageway. I also think that the intensity of modern training methods, the increase in physicality in the game, and the sheer breadth of modern playing schedules means that the days of teenagers stepping straight into inter-county senior are pretty much over. Seamus Moynihan is the last player I can remember playing senior for Kerry whie in secondary school; I don't think we'll see it again. Good post himself and I fully agree with you on most of the points you have made. However I wouldn't close the door on an 18 or 19 year old playing for the Kerry seniors in the future, such as Maurice, Seamus and Colm did. This type of player sees the game from a completely different place in terms of slowing the game down in their minds eye and a general awareness of their surroundings on the pitch. Physicality rarely comes into it for this type of one off player.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Nov 30, 2013 12:30:49 GMT
Jack has serious potential but it is only potential. Nowhere close to the starting 15 for next year. Starting ahead of Paul Galvin? The world is made up of differing opinions and that one is definitely a bit different to me! I'd expect Kieran Murphy to be knocking around the panel. What about Niall Sheehy or Jamie Moriarty for Mitchels? These were excellent young players, I don't know much about their current form. Ciaran Keating was one of the best minors I have seen but he seems to have dropped below the radar; I think he was in the States for a while but don't know. I don't think people realise what an absolutely massive step up from minor the Kerry seniors are; it's the difference between a boreen and a dual carriageway. I also think that the intensity of modern training methods, the increase in physicality in the game, and the sheer breadth of modern playing schedules means that the days of teenagers stepping straight into inter-county senior are pretty much over. Seamus Moynihan is the last player I can remember playing senior for Kerry whie in secondary school; I don't think we'll see it again. I appreciate your point himself but it may not be as inconceivable as you think. Paddy McBrearty made his senior championship debut for Donegal as a minor. Ciaran Kilkenny kicked 4 points from play in an Ireland senior semi final in his 1st year out of minor. He was a leaving cert student earlier that summer
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 1, 2013 12:39:32 GMT
Generally speaking I think that players with clear potential like Jack should be called up to the scene sooner. I think Fionn is 23 now. Who here thinks that he wouldn't have done a good job for say 30 mins against Dublin in 2011. Look at Clare... several players are in or around 20. Anyone could see that Fionn had it at 18, he just needed to fill out but what harm would it have done to bring him in then and bring him on a bit quicker. Who did? lol Fionn is a great player now, but I don't think he would have got there any quicker by simply playing him with the Kerry seniors. Some people can be late developers, things worked perfectly for Fionn, he was able to improve on the back of his clubs success. Don't think he would have done much against the Dubs in 2011, actually for all we know he could have been the Jack Sherwood of 2011 with many Kerry fans criticising him unfairly! Some players just need us all to be patient! Jaysus seamo your an awful man for the lols! Fionns pedigree was well flagged from 2008 as a minor and with the Sem. This would have been well before you joined the form in 2012. I agree with you for the most part. I agree that Fionn was a great player in 2013. I do believe that he would have been a good player in 2012 and a good player in 2011. I agree with you that some players need us to be patient. But I believe that every so often a young lad comes along that can cut it and do a job for 30 mins. The odd one. A once size fits all seldom works for everybody. There is also an element of surprize with putting a young lad in at the last minute in a big game like Davy did with Shane ODonnell in the hurling replay. He will be tightly marked from now on but at 19 or 20 he won the All Ireland for Clare. Incidentially, Lar Corbett got 5 touches in the 2010 final and got 3 goals and hurler of the year and an All Star. Shane ODonnell got 8 touches, got 3 goals and 3 points, was fouled for a pointed free and set up another point. I would hazard a guess that in 50 years time twill be a quiz guestion....who is the only man to score 3.03 in an All Ireland final and not get an all star that year.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Dec 1, 2013 14:00:45 GMT
Who did? lol Fionn is a great player now, but I don't think he would have got there any quicker by simply playing him with the Kerry seniors. Some people can be late developers, things worked perfectly for Fionn, he was able to improve on the back of his clubs success. Don't think he would have done much against the Dubs in 2011, actually for all we know he could have been the Jack Sherwood of 2011 with many Kerry fans criticising him unfairly! Some players just need us all to be patient! Jaysus seamo your an awful man for the lols! Fionns pedigree was well flagged from 2008 as a minor and with the Sem. This would have been well before you joined the form in 2012. I agree with you for the most part. I agree that Fionn was a great player in 2013. I do believe that he would have been a good player in 2012 and a good player in 2011. I agree with you that some players need us to be patient. But I believe that every so often a young lad comes along that can cut it and do a job for 30 mins. The odd one. A once size fits all seldom works for everybody. There is also an element of surprize with putting a young lad in at the last minute in a big game like Davy did with Shane ODonnell in the hurling replay. He will be tightly marked from now on but at 19 or 20 he won the All Ireland for Clare. Incidentially, Lar Corbett got 5 touches in the 2010 final and got 3 goals and hurler of the year and an All Star. Shane ODonnell got 8 touches, got 3 goals and 3 points, was fouled for a pointed free and set up another point. I would hazard a guess that in 50 years time twill be a quiz guestion....who is the only man to score 3.03 in an All Ireland final and not get an all star that year. I don't disagree with that! There are plenty of examples of that throughout the country over the past 2-3 years, both in football and hurling and you have named some of them already. What I disagree with is that Savage is that player. As I've said, 2-3 years time he could be a great contributor for the seniors. Regards Fionn....come off it Mick!! lol Maybe I only joined the forum in 2012, but that's enough to say that no-one here was calling for his inclusion throughout 2012..I can't even call it hindsight at this stage, more like make-believe! Nobody here predicted Fionn Fitzgerald to be in Kerry's starting 15. I would hope Eamon has Jack Savage in his plans going forward, It's just my own opinion but I don't see him having an impact in 2014.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 1, 2013 15:41:47 GMT
Jacks slowness to bring on young lads was well commented upon but people gave up talking about it after a while. Jack would much prefer to bring a guy out of retirement.
That was just his way and that was it.
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Post by glengael on Dec 1, 2013 19:34:36 GMT
Incidentially, Lar Corbett got 5 touches in the 2010 final and got 3 goals and hurler of the year and an All Star. Shane ODonnell got 8 touches, got 3 goals and 3 points, was fouled for a pointed free and set up another point. I would hazard a guess that in 50 years time twill be a quiz guestion....who is the only man to score 3.03 in an All Ireland final and not get an all star that year.
I don't think Bomber got an All Star in 1978 , did he? (off topic I know!!!)
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 4, 2013 1:07:49 GMT
Eoin got 4 all stars but didn't get one in 1978.
I wonder did he fall foul of the rule that you were disregarded if you were sent off that year. I know there was a big scrap with Dublin in the USA that year (the makings of Kerry per Joe Keohane) and maybe he got sent off in that. Not sure.
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Post by glengael on Dec 4, 2013 11:04:43 GMT
Its a fairly elite group alright those who have scored 3 goals in an All Ireland Final.
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Post by gaaaddiction on Dec 7, 2013 19:15:31 GMT
That's a good Team . All of them will be close to the Panel . I will give another 15 who could make the panel . 1 Timmy Culloty Na Gaeil 2 TJ Friel Rathmore 3 Conor O'Sullivan Dingle 4 Brian Begley An Ghaeltacht 5 David Roche Milltown/Castlemaine 6 Sean Ryan Austin Stacks 7 Jason Foley Ballydonoghue 8 Michael O'Donnell Austin Stacks 9 Daniel MacBeth Laune Rangers 10 Evan Cronin Spa 11 Sean O'Sullivan St.Michaels,Foilmore 12 Brian Wall Beale 13 Sam O'Dwyer Waterville 14 Ivan Parker Churchill 15 Diarmuid Keating Skellig Rangers That's a really good 15 for a second 15. Some good players there
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Post by gaaaddiction on Dec 7, 2013 19:29:13 GMT
I said I don't think he will be next year but he could be in 2015 his last year . Fitzgerald will be good still only 15 . Fitzgerald supposed to be playing good football at the moment.
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Post by gaaaddiction on Dec 7, 2013 19:32:02 GMT
I hope we do well in 2014 . It would be nice to win an All Ireland just because it would be good for the Underage scene in Kerry and give it a needed boost . I agree there seems to be a decent panel in the minors at the moment
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Post by gaaaddiction on Dec 7, 2013 19:34:00 GMT
Eamonns! Too early for him to get involved I match day squad but he should see some training time with them Were Jack McCaffrey and Ciaran Kilkenny too young to play with Dublin in 2013. Both minors from the previous year. Surey Kieran Murphy Kilcummin is worth a go
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Post by dingle101 on Jan 13, 2014 21:34:01 GMT
Rob o Sé an ghaeltacht has suffered a grade 1 hamstring injury and has been put off the minor panel, tough luck for rob heard he was flying in there.
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