Should Kerry change its way of playing?

[Mickmack]

I realise that we have 36 All Irelands so we must be doing a lot right. Some of the current players have played in 8/9/10 finals.

But..........

Our record against the sides that put men behind the ball and hit us on the break is poor. At all levels and competitions including Colleges.

My personal pet hate is seeing defenders dispossessed 40 yards from goal which usually results in the concession of a goal as all defends are out of position.

Others feel we over handpass and should kick more.

The likes of Colm Cooper need a bit of space to work a bit of magic and the Dubs closed that space down last Sept. Should Colm have moved out the field?

Joe Brolly paints a depressing picture of the future. He says the best forwards will play half back and they will try to kick long range points. Games will be decided by what a ref adjudicates to be a free within kicking distance of goal.

I am not sure how kicking the ball into the forwards works when the opposition have funnelled its players back inside the 45 metre line.

Can a county change its style of playing?

Should it?

[kerrystar]

Nothing majorly wrong with Kerry senior team's style of playing but there seems to be an overemphasis on keeping possession in the backline rather than kicking a 50/50 ball long into the forward line.

You risk losing possession both ways, but if you lose it in your own backline then it could easily be a goal for the opposition. If you kick it long you risk the opposition re-building again from the back but on the flip side you are going to get the ball into the scoring zone more often and probably create more scoring opportunities.

Kerry's performance v Dublin in 2009 would be a good template. As far as I can recall Kerry were going forward quickly at nearly all times and there wasn't a whole pile of lateral or backward handpassing in the back line.

[buck02]

One of my pet hates at a game is people shouting at players coming out with the ball to "kick it". They might as well say "close your eyes and kick it as long as you can" because thats what they mean.

The game has evolved from the days of catch and kick. That philosophy was fine when all teams played with 3 in the full back line, 3 in the half back line, 2 midfielders, 3 in the half forward line and 3 in the full forward line. The ball was usually kicked between 2 players and it was your job to beat your man to the ball.

People here point at the Dublin goal in 2011 and Tyrones in 2005 as an arguement against playing the ball out of defence. If I had the time or the inclination I'm sure I could pick out dozens of incidents where excellent Kerry scores came from the backs playing the ball out of defence. It would be a similar arguement to people saying a certain soccer team shouldnt play for off-side because they have been caught out a couple of times - but how many times has it worked?

2 of the best goals I have seen were Galways against Kerry in the replay in 2000 and Corks against Donegal in the quarter final of 2009. If they are on youtube I would encourage anybody to have a look at them.

[Annascaultilidie]

While I agree with you Buck I do think that we're not cautious enough when bringing the ball back. Counter-attack works against teams that 'forget to defend when they attack'. Also there were a lot more than two goals conceded in this fashion. Last year against Dublin in the league there were two or even three for example.

[kerrystar]

Feb 20, 2012 13:03:11 GMT buck02 said:

2 of the best goals I have seen were Galways against Kerry in the replay in 2000 and Corks against Donegal in the quarter final of 2009. If they are on youtube I would encourage anybody to have a look at them.

Fully agreed, both fantastic goals, you could add Cooper's goal v Dublin 2009 to that list.

Kerry sometimes seem to do too much passing across the back, keeping possession behind their own 45 but thereby starving the forwards of ball and forcing forwards to make four or five dummy runs.

Do you keep possession in your own 45 where you have zero chance of scoring or play longer 50/50 kick passes with the risk of losing the ball but the opportunity of creating more scoring chances. That's the choice.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2012 13:03:11 GMT buck02 said:

One of my pet hates at a game is people shouting at players coming out with the ball to "kick it". They might as well say "close your eyes and kick it as long as you can" because thats what they mean.

The game has evolved from the days of catch and kick. That philosophy was fine when all teams played with 3 in the full back line, 3 in the half back line, 2 midfielders, 3 in the half forward line and 3 in the full forward line. The ball was usually kicked between 2 players and it was your job to beat your man to the ball.

People here point at the Dublin goal in 2011 and Tyrones in 2005 as an arguement against playing the ball out of defence. If I had the time or the inclination I'm sure I could pick out dozens of incidents where excellent Kerry scores came from the backs playing the ball out of defence. It would be a similar arguement to people saying a certain soccer team shouldnt play for off-side because they have been caught out a couple of times - but how many times has it worked?

2 of the best goals I have seen were Galways against Kerry in the replay in 2000 and Corks against Donegal in the quarter final of 2009. If they are on youtube I would encourage anybody to have a look at them.

100% agree with all of the above. Another great score I remember was in the 2007 semi V Dublin where at the end Kerry played about 15 consecutive handpasses over and back across the pitch to set up a crucial score I think it was for Sean Ban.
No doubt there are some who believe Kerry should have just let the ball in.

[misteallaigh abú]

Anyone who was at the match last week v Armagh would have seen the absolute folly of just "kicking it in". How many times was the ball just lamped in in the general direction of Star? I remember the '09 league final in Parnell park v Derry. I stood behind the goals and watched Kerry players do the same aimless thing. It created wave after wave of Derry counter attacks and they went on to win the league title. In the quarter final v Dublin, that year, Kerry varied their game and Dublin didn't know how to deal with it.

We were far too predictable against Armagh last Saturday night week, Armagh had obviously planned for it by dropping mc Keever in front of Star and having Brendan Donaghy marking him. They swept up ball after ball and won the game comfortably.

[Mickmack]

Tyrone at their best were a sight to beyhold when massed defense suddenly became massed attack. However Tyrone hardly ever lost the ball in such situations.

Kerry need to stop losing possession or having the ball ripped from their grasp in the tackle.

I too fail to see the logic of kicking the ball into an area that is full of opposition players. There is a time for the fast kick forward......when the opposition is attacking and are dispossed........ and there is a precious bit of space up front.

In the final v Dublin I could not fault Kerrys tactics against the Dubs upfront. They held up the ball and released a runner to draw a foul........ not pretty but then ......... what could they do.

A bit of caution when working the ball out of defense would solve a lot of problems in my opinion.

[Tadhgeen]

There is nothing wrong with kicking the ball in once it is directed appropriately and into space. Nobody wants to see aimless kicks into the full forward line (although I'd much prefer to see a hit and hope skyscraper into the full forward line by say the CHB than lose possession on our own half back line).

So the forward area is now packed with opposition players, so what, let's deal with it. We need to get the ball nto the danger area more often, draw defenders and offload. Sounds easy doesn't it.

Our passing in general needs to speed up with rapid interchanges of ball. We have always been known for our movement and intricate moves but we don't seem to have developed this in light of packed defences.

I also think that we have not been getting the best out of referees. I'm noit sure what it is but opposing teams seem to win frees more easily. I particularly noticed this most recently watching the Crokes v Cross game.

Now you could say that this is down to the referee but I prefer to think that it is because the opposing players draw the free a lot of then time by angling their body in such a way in contact that it looks like a foul by the defending palyer.

Very often it seems we give away these type of frees where there is minimal contact by our player but more by the opposing player - hope this makes sense.

I think we would do well to look at how we tackle and perhaps stand back as the opposing player prepares for contact. Very often the opposing player is going nowhere without support and they win the handy free.

Just my thoughts..........

[Annascaultilidie]

I think we are the masters of winning frees to be honest and I'd rather see less of it. The tackle is an even bigger problem in football than anything in my opine.

[Tadhgeen]

I am not suggesting that we try to get better at winning frees - it's more try to get better at not giving them away.

[veteran]

I tend to agree with most of what Tadhgeen has written.

There is another aspect of Kerry's forward play which upsets me, forwards, all of whomare out of the top drawer. Last Sunday, I made my way to Finuge to see the Kerry ladies play Cavan. Kerry won easily, albeit against poor opposition. One aspect of Kerry's play which impressed me hugely, particularly in the second half, was the way the forwards maintained their formation, thereby creating acres of space for themselves. A back's pet hate is space, especially when confronted by a good forward. Too often we see the Kerry forwards corralled in a confined area, resulting in this futile carousel of pass the parcel. Meanwhile, the opposing backs are laughing all the way to the dressing room rather than having their tongues hanging out chasing shadows. Space and movement by the forwards, heads up delivery by the outfield players. Might work.

[Annascaultilidie]

Feb 21, 2012 14:57:28 GMT Tadhgeen said:

I am not suggesting that we try to get better at winning frees - it's more try to get better at not giving them away.

Sorry I read that all wrong. I see what you are saying. My comment about "the tackle" being a mess stands though.

[kerrygold]

Tyrone perfected the art of literally turning their team inside out in an instant when on the offense. Defenders going forward were replaced by forwards or midfield players falling back to cover, or by Martin Pemrose ranging the park from corner forward. This created acres of space in attack for Tyrone and pulled defenders out of place. Joe McMahon playing from wing forward regularly fell back to full back when Justin moved forward to support the attack. In effect through attacking from defence Tyrone always kept their shape on the offense while always covering their back lines thus developing a low risk strategy.

Harte and Jordan on the offense, overlapping retreating attackers from their own team always created the effect of pulling opposing wing forwards back into defensive positions. Cue, Sheehan & Brosnan in the ’08 final retreating reduced Kerry’s ability to attack efficiently and removed the middle third receive and link players to feed the inside forwards with quality quick ball. In essence by attacking from defence and turning their team inside out positionally in terms of personnel maning specific positions Tyrone orchestrated total defence through initiating offense. Kerry was in trouble in ’08 once Sheehan & Brosnan defended deeply on Harte & Jordan.

Tyrone on the defensive defend in forward facing triangular clusters of three moving across the defence lines in defence, thus necessitating the need for the team in attack to recycle the ball across the attack lines looking for space. Meanwhile the inside final third attacking zone has become clogged up by retreating triangular clusters of three across the gain lines. Full forward line players become crowded out and a shield defensive player easily sits in front of key opposition attackers in the role of a sweeper resulting in high ball played in not finding its target or being broken away. How often from wing forward do we see Joe McMahon sitting in the pocket in front of the Gooch & Donaghy just reading the play and watching it develop?

Aligned with a hard working midfield, Hub and McGinley Tyrone cover the hard yardage covering the gain lines efficiently. 2008 was an extraordinary engineering feat from Harte & Tyrone to win an All-Ireland final with one functioning forward, the brilliant Sean Cavanagh whose game danced on the end of a string that day.

It is easy to say kick the ball in or stop the lateral hand passing across the gain lines, but you first have to think your way through the maze that is developing in front of you. Secondly you have to ask are your players good enough to out think and out play the defensive game as it unfolds when high end quality players are in opposition. Thirdly you have to ask is Kerry’s mindset imbedded in fulfilling the prophecy of the beautiful game.

When in the zone of performance Tyrone played the game as one entity of offense in different art forms and formations. You’ll probably also find that Tyrone’s latest blue chip young player, Peter Harte playing at centre back is currently one of the leading scores in the National League.

[Mickmack]

Great post kerrygold. The Tyrone model circa 2005 was pretty much as good as it gets.

Kerry need to develop "a safety net" or cover system for playing out of defense.

Teams are never going back to the old days of 6 backs, 2 midfields and 6 forwards as Eamonn OSullivan used to preach.

So Kerry must adapt and funnel back and force turnovers and then have a failsafe system of playing the ball out of defense.

I believe Seamus Scanlon in his prime played a key role in the transition of the play from defense to attack. Nothing fancy .....just quick, safe interplay.

[Deleted]

Great post KG. Modern football has changed and tactically is miles ahead of where it was 10 years ago. Kerry have adapted significantly to the modern game but when it comes to defending, they still want their backs to go man to man with the oppositions best forward.
Marc despite being one of the great defenders of the past 10 years has probably suffered from the fact that he has to go man to man with the best forward on every team whereas opposing defenders usually have a bit more support around them when trying to mark an oppositions best player.

[veteran]

Thirty metres is a relatively short distance, yet how many inter county forwards are capable of kicking a point from that distance? Painfully few in my experience. Is it too much to expect that every inter county forward should be able to accomplish that modest feat. Very likely, they are unable to do so because they spend very little time practising that skill, rather they while away endless sessions hand passing to a colleague five metres to their left or right or, more alarmingly, five metres to their rear.

How many inter county forwards are capable of leaping a modest height and securely grasping that ball? I suggest as few as are able to kick a point from thirty metres. Why? I suspect they rarely have to do it in training sessions, rather they gleefully accept that five metre pass.

It would seem then that the two basic skills of football are veering towards extinction through neglect, as coaches, some of them remunerated apparently, prefer to emphasise the hand pass, a skill that could be taught to a monkey. The two basic skills are not being practiced, at least on the evidence of the product I witness week in week out. A commentator once said to a famously, successful golfer-"you are very lucky". " I know", replied the golfer, " the more I practice, the luckier I get".

Being able to field the football would come in handy for a full back line rather than letting it bob around the goal line before finding its way to the net. It would also help a forward to be able to win his ball independently rather than hanging about waiting to receive that five metre pass. He may not feature too high in Sylvester's possessions hit parade, but those few possessions could be ultimately far more productive.

How to overcome that massed, Donegal like defence? Perhaps, the ability to kick a thirty metres point might help. It makes more sense to me and leaves a lesser carbon footprint than hand passing your way down a cul de sac. You may say that kicking a thirty metres point is not as easy as all that. Well, it certainly will be difficult if not practised. However, catching and kicking would appear to be old hat, overtaken by sophisticated, complex, helter skelter, hither and thither running based on the principle of I step in and you step out again.

Enlightened kicking, interspersed with the the two or three hand passes progressive legislation would allow, may be the key to unlocking the modern defensive road block. I got the impression, without the advantage of being at the game, that Crosmaglen were employing that approach last Saturday. It seemed to work.

I fear restoration of the basic skills will have to commence at schoolboy level. It is improbable that older dogs will employ new tricks. Teach the young how to catch it and teach them how to kick it with practice, practice, practice. When these skills are mastered, introduce whatever tactics takes your fancy, without making it too intricate. After all, football is a simple game , as a hobby should be. The fundamental aim of the game is to propel the ball from one end of the field to the other. It could bring success. It could also lead to a better spectacle. This latter consequence should not be ignored in an era where a discerning public are exposed to several other field games.

Whatever way you look it, Kerry, even with forwards of the first rank, find it very difficult, very often impossible , to penetrate blanket defences employing their predictable hand pass razzle dazzle. Time for something new?

[seamo]

Nicely put Veteran.

[Kingdomson]

Kerrygold you truly are a student of the game that was a brilliant analysis of how Tyrone bamboozled us and indeed others when they were in the groove and they haven’t gone away. Change our style? Not easily answered. However, we do need to become less predictable, especially in attack. Do we have the personnel?

One skill I see far too little of from the present Kerry team is long distance point scoring. For all the talent that remains in our forwards we don’t seem have too many of them who can comfortably shoot a score from distance. Bryan Sheehan can but he is now placed in midfield.

Teams can read us, if we are not going all agricultural and lobbying the ball towards Kieran Donaghy they know we like to carry the ball into the D as much as possible before going for a score or we are trying to win a free which sadly is now part of our attacking strategy. We can and have been bottled out and shut down in our attack just look at last year’s All Ireland Final.

For me this is why the loss of Tommy Walsh from our shores and David Moran through injury really aches. Think of the options we could have with those pair of man mountains and great ball kickers around.

[Annascaultilidie]

I'll say it again:

Feb 20, 2012 13:51:01 GMT Annascaultilidie said:

[In any sport] Counter-attack works against teams that 'forget to defend when they attack'.

[Mickmack]

Counter-attack works against teams that 'forget to defend when they attack'

annaulcaultilidie.... could you outline what Kerry should do to defend when they attack. I agree with your analysis. But its not easily done.

One must remember that Tyrone were at their most dangerous when defending around their own D. A quick turnover and a red and white sunnami was was unleased.

Tyrone struggled though when others did the same to them.

Its a draining type of game too which probably explains why they were not serious challengers every year.

Dublin were ultra defensive in 2011 and their performance against Tyrone was a classic display in my opinion.




In the weeks leading up to last years final I was talking to a great GAA man from Roscommon. He said Kerry should pack the defense and force the Dubs into losing the ball and then lamp it fast up to Donaghy and Colm.

[Annascaultilidie]

Feb 22, 2012 8:23:39 GMT Mickmack said:

Counter-attack works against teams that 'forget to defend when they attack'

annaulcaultilidie.... could you outline what Kerry should do to defend when they attack. I agree with your analysis. But its not easily done.

See Kerrygold's post. I was just backing him up succinctly.

[mafi97]

Feb 21, 2012 20:32:01 GMT kerrygold said:

Tyrone perfected the art of literally turning their team inside out in an instant when on the offense. Defenders going forward were replaced by forwards or midfield players falling back to cover, or by Martin Pemrose ranging the park from corner forward. This created acres of space in attack for Tyrone and pulled defenders out of place. Joe McMahon playing from wing forward regularly fell back to full back when Justin moved forward to support the attack. In effect through attacking from defence Tyrone always kept their shape on the offense while always covering their back lines thus developing a low risk strategy. Harte and Jordan on the offense, overlapping retreating attackers from their own team always created the effect of pulling opposing wing forwards back into defensive positions. Cue, Sheehan & Brosnan in the ’08 final retreating reduced Kerry’s ability to attack efficiently and removed the middle third receive and link players to feed the inside forwards with quality quick ball. In essence by attacking from defence and turning their team inside out positionally in terms of personnel maning specific positions Tyrone orchestrated total defence through initiating offense. Kerry was in trouble in ’08 once Sheehan & Brosnan defended deeply on Harte & Jordan. Tyrone on the defensive defend in forward facing triangular clusters of three moving across the defence lines in defence, thus necessitating the need for the team in attack to recycle the ball across the attack lines looking for space. Meanwhile the inside final third attacking zone has become clogged up by retreating triangular clusters of three across the gain lines. Full forward line players become crowded out and a shield defensive player easily sits in front of key opposition attackers in the role of a sweeper resulting in high ball played in not finding its target or being broken away. How often from wing forward do we see Joe Mahon sitting in the pocket in front of the Gooch & Donaghy just reading the play and watching it develop? Aligned with a hard working midfield, Hub and McGinley Tyrone cover the hard yardage covering the gain lines efficiently. 2008 was an extraordinary engineering feat from Harte & Tyrone to win an All-Ireland final with one functioning forward, the brilliant Sean Cavanagh whose game danced on the end of a string that day. It is easy to say kick the ball in or stop the lateral hand passing across the gain lines, but you first have to think your way through the maze that is developing in front of you. Secondly you have to ask are your players good enough to out think and out play the defensive game as it unfolds when high end quality players are in opposition. Thirdly you have to ask is Kerry’s mindset imbedded in fulfilling the prophecy of the beautiful game. I resisted the usage of paragraphs because when in the zone of performance Tyrone played the game as one entity of offense in different art forms and formations. You’ll probably also find that Tyrone’s latest blue chip young player, Peter Harte playing at centre back is currently one of the leading scores in the National League.

Brilliant analysis.
Now that you have got the Joycean point out of your system, could you go back and split your post into appropiate paragraphs - and walk away with the Post of the Year Award!!!!!!.

[kerrygold]

Feb 22, 2012 19:50:52 GMT mafi97 said:

Feb 21, 2012 20:32:01 GMT kerrygold said:

Tyrone perfected the art of literally turning their team inside out in an instant when on the offense. Defenders going forward were replaced by forwards or midfield players falling back to cover, or by Martin Pemrose ranging the park from corner forward. This created acres of space in attack for Tyrone and pulled defenders out of place. Joe McMahon playing from wing forward regularly fell back to full back when Justin moved forward to support the attack. In effect through attacking from defence Tyrone always kept their shape on the offense while always covering their back lines thus developing a low risk strategy. Harte and Jordan on the offense, overlapping retreating attackers from their own team always created the effect of pulling opposing wing forwards back into defensive positions. Cue, Sheehan & Brosnan in the ’08 final retreating reduced Kerry’s ability to attack efficiently and removed the middle third receive and link players to feed the inside forwards with quality quick ball. In essence by attacking from defence and turning their team inside out positionally in terms of personnel maning specific positions Tyrone orchestrated total defence through initiating offense. Kerry was in trouble in ’08 once Sheehan & Brosnan defended deeply on Harte & Jordan. Tyrone on the defensive defend in forward facing triangular clusters of three moving across the defence lines in defence, thus necessitating the need for the team in attack to recycle the ball across the attack lines looking for space. Meanwhile the inside final third attacking zone has become clogged up by retreating triangular clusters of three across the gain lines. Full forward line players become crowded out and a shield defensive player easily sits in front of key opposition attackers in the role of a sweeper resulting in high ball played in not finding its target or being broken away. How often from wing forward do we see Joe Mahon sitting in the pocket in front of the Gooch & Donaghy just reading the play and watching it develop? Aligned with a hard working midfield, Hub and McGinley Tyrone cover the hard yardage covering the gain lines efficiently. 2008 was an extraordinary engineering feat from Harte & Tyrone to win an All-Ireland final with one functioning forward, the brilliant Sean Cavanagh whose game danced on the end of a string that day. It is easy to say kick the ball in or stop the lateral hand passing across the gain lines, but you first have to think your way through the maze that is developing in front of you. Secondly you have to ask are your players good enough to out think and out play the defensive game as it unfolds when high end quality players are in opposition. Thirdly you have to ask is Kerry’s mindset imbedded in fulfilling the prophecy of the beautiful game. I resisted the usage of paragraphs because when in the zone of performance Tyrone played the game as one entity of offense in different art forms and formations. You’ll probably also find that Tyrone’s latest blue chip young player, Peter Harte playing at centre back is currently one of the leading scores in the National League.

Brilliant analysis.
Now that you have got the Joycean point out of your system, could you go back and split your post into appropiate paragraphs - and walk away with the Post of the Year Award!!!!!!.

Thanks mafi97, amended.

[Mickmack]

Well folks

Way back in February we had a lively discussion on this thread about whether Kerry should change its way of playing.

In 2011 and 2012 I dont believe that Dublin or Donegal had better footballers than Kerry. There were lots of variable at play obviously....... Kerry in transition, Dublin and Donegal very hungry, the ref in the case of the final in 2011, injuries etc etc.

But for me anyway, its the system that these teams play that seems to be our undoing. Can it be beaten with the tactics Kerry are using now.

Lots of these Donegal players were playing a couple of years ago when Cork out 1.27 on the scoreboard. So this defensive system seems to cover up lots of shortcomings in a team and new players seem to be able to fit into it easily.

Darragh says that Kerry should have continued the way they started but to me what happened was that Donegal moved back into defense after Colm and Declans points.

It says it all when Maher was Kerrys most likely scorer........ surely Colm and the whole Kerry full forward line should have moved out and created a right traffic jam in the middle. That would have forced the Donegal full back line to follow and space would have opened up for the runners.


Brollys point from last year that in future the best forwards will play at half backs isnt far off...... they will try to land 60 yarders like Maher did.

Surely the first requirement that any new manager should have is a tactical plan to beat this system.

New thinking needed.

[martin]

This Kerry team along with Kerry '75-'86 have been the most consistent in the history of the GAA. I would give the present team the edge because nowadays there are more teams in the upper echelon than back then.

Winning so much also can have its down falls, that is the lack of motivation in certain times of need. Compare last Sunday v Donegal and the Tyrone game two weeks earlier in this respect. It was like chalk and cheese. No team in Ireland would have come near us that day in Killarney nor if we had played the game in Timbucktoo if the opposition went by the name of Tyrone and wore Tyrone jerseys.

You can have all the skill in the world but when you lack motivation and the real will to win ordinary less talented teams will have the edge. Without the proper mindset when a goal is conceded like the one last Sunday self doubt creeps in. The injuries compounded it still further coupled with the false belief that Donegal are now impregnable in such circumstances. Then even a point deficit seems a mammoth task to overhaul. When Kerry finally got the (lucky) goal the motivation and self belief returned. The likes of Paul Galvin was suddenly rejuvenated and this resonated throughout the whole team. An over zealous commitment by a Kerry player (not to be faulted) when it was more advisable to stay back for the break handed Karl Lacey and Donegal the two point cushion needed and thus the game.

Donegal had massive self belief, even their supporters to a man could not envision a defeat, that was until the last five minuted when Kerry finally came alive.

So do Kerry have to change its way of playing? Absolutely not. Motivation and belief are the necessary ingredients which we sometimes lack as we have talent in abundance. For a team as successful as Kerry this is not always readily available.

[kerrygold]

Aug 12, 2012 21:45:32 GMT martin said:

This Kerry team along with Kerry '75-'86 have been the most consistent in the history of the GAA. I would give the present team the edge because nowadays there are more teams in the upper echelon than back then.

Winning so much also can have its down falls, that is the lack of motivation in certain times of need. Compare last Sunday v Donegal and the Tyrone game two weeks earlier in this respect. It was like chalk and cheese. No team in Ireland would have come near us that day in Killarney nor if we had played the game in Timbucktoo if the opposition went by the name of Tyrone and wore Tyrone jerseys.

You can have all the skill in the world but when you lack motivation and the real will to win ordinary less talented teams will have the edge. Without the proper mindset when a goal is conceded like the one last Sunday self doubt creeps in. The injuries compounded it still further coupled with the false belief that Donegal are now impregnable in such circumstances. Then even a point deficit seems a mammoth task to overhaul. When Kerry finally got the (lucky) goal the motivation and self belief returned. The likes of Paul Galvin was suddenly rejuvenated and this resonated throughout the whole team. An over zealous commitment by a Kerry player (not to be faulted) when it was more advisable to stay back for the break handed Karl Lacey and Donegal the two point cushion needed and thus the game.

Donegal had massive self belief, even their supporters to a man could not envision a defeat, that was until the last five minuted when Kerry finally came alive.

So do Kerry have to change its way of playing? Absolutely not. Motivation and belief are the necessary ingredients which we sometimes lack as we have talent in abundance. For a team as successful as Kerry this is not always readily available.

Brilliant post and nail on head. I think you can wrap motivation, belief and hunger under the umbrella of "form and freshness". Kerry were stone flat for the first 25 minutes v Clare which indicated all was not right late in the season.

Kerry need to get their appointment spot on, there is another championship title in this team, while just as easily a group of them could retire depending on the new man selected.

Kerry will need to create a new energy and aura in the dressing room and most likely a new voice with a new direction. If the players don't buy into it., most likely the team will come up short again in 2013. The next appointment needs to excite the players and tickle their imagination. Not an easy task with a team that has achieved so much.

[jackmurphy]

This is a great thread. It poses a question that every IC manager will ask.

Donegal may lose to Cork but it will be close.

Donegal were hammered in 2009 v Cork (14 pt margin) with many of the same players - They lost by 9 pts to an average Armagh side in the 2010 qualifiers with 13 of the players that lined out v Kerry. Add in the improvements to Dublin, Laois & Mayo with variations of the Tyrone/Donegal System and it doesn't take Einstein to realise that it levels the playing field.

Kerry are losing some of the greatest players to grace the game and lads like the O Se's & Galvin aren't easily replaced. Kerry could not handle this system with the 2nd best team of all time - how can they be expected to handle it with players of lesser ability ?

They must fight fire with fire.

Kerry's new management team will be focused on winning Sam and not entertaining - I expect to see Kerry use the Donegal Template.

[donegalman]

Interesting topic. I think that as long as the rules remain in situ, it will strongly favor the tactics of a defensive team. therefore either Kerry have to adapt a lightning fast attack of a mixture of long and short into the forwards, as the Kerry midfield is the best in the country. Ball handling skills have to be 100% perfect, as a mistake will get punished by a counter attack and a score most likely.

The reality is that if kerry get a 3 point cushion there are few teams capable of reeling them in, so change may not be the wisest thing to do.

The litmus test of the defensive game v the free flowing game is going to be in a fortnight when we play Cork. I think that if they click from 45 metres out in their scoring attempts, they could stretch ahead and b out of sight. But if they dont, then it will b a similar afternoon for us as it was last sunday.

Ultimately, Kerry should not change too much, but it will depend on whether there are changes to the rules of the game next year.

[Mickmack]

Kerry may have been flat against Clare after the three previous games and I think that its a factor. But in 2011, they beat Limerick and a Mayo team that had peaked against Cork. There hadnt played three games in a row before the final of 2011 so what explains the total fade out with 6 mins to go?

I agree with Donegal man that the litmus test is the Cork game. (By the way Donegal man....you are very welcome to this site..........)