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Post by FatTom on Jan 20, 2005 14:22:30 GMT
Definitely not. I agree totally with Currowman and Buck02 I think WalterMitty has an absolute cheek to ask us to keep Bigotry out of this debate. to me anybody suggesting that "foreign" games be played in Croker is a traitor to the great Irishmen who laid down their lives that Ireland be free. We Irish seem to be ashamed of our past. Do you see any clamour by Protestants, Presbeyterians or Muslims to use our Catholic Churches. Read Archbishops Crokes letter. The place is a monument to him and all the Archbishops since. Don't desecrate it. Anyone who wants to see soccer and Rugby go to Lansdowne road and rot there. The biggest problem now facing the GAA is the age of their presidents - too young. All they are interested is creating anice cushy number in politics when their three year term is up. The ship was much steadier when presidents took office later in life. Finally would Kerry supporters be happy if Seamus Moynihan left the Kerry hotel before an All-Ireland final and went down home because the balls at training were soft or some other complaint. No way. Then why should we want that rat Keane playing in Croker. Tomas F. O'Sullivan of Listowel was the man who pioneered the GAA in Kerry and anyone seeking guidance should read his writings. Michael Collins said "No Soccer for Gaels". Time for the true Gaels to stand up. I agree that this opening of the pitch doesn't go with GAA sentiment but it would be great for Ireland as a nation and it makes economical sense. Did our forefathers expect to see International Rules, Concerts, Special Olympics Ceremony and American Football played/hosted there? In fact the GAA have already gone against the grain
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Post by kerryman on Jan 20, 2005 16:18:50 GMT
Michael Collins said "No Soccer for Gaels". Time for the true Gaels to stand up. Steady on there Ginger. I suspect that the majority of GAA players in this country wouldn't agree with you. The Ban was dropped for a reason. We can keep our Irishness without closing our minds.
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Post by ginger on Jan 20, 2005 18:36:18 GMT
A few years ago a number of British born players playing Gaelic football in this country were called "Tans". I am sure the very same people are the ones clamouring to have England playing either Rugby or soccer at Croke Park. Please understand that the foreign games rule was introduced to stop the peaceful penetration of Ireland by British garrisons based in the country and it was massively successful. Without it for many years the GAA would have died in its youth. Money: It is stated that the GAA could benefit to the tune of 2 million. Fair enough. But the FAI and IRFU would also benefit from increased gates and what would they do with the money. If they are honest??? A colleague said the other day that for Rugby or soccer internationals the attendance would be circa 50,000. Do you know what these bodies would do then - they would give free tickets to all the schools and colleges thus scuppering the GAA. I refer again to Tomas F. O'Sullivan who stated clearly that the ultimate aim of the GAA was an Irish Republic for the 32 counties and that was what it was formed for. I don't like bringing politics into sport but Congress not so long ago decreed that the GAA had the right to discuss political issues when the subjects affected the GAA. It is quite clear that the present Government (Fianna Fail in particular) is behind the moves to open Croke Park. Back in 1931 Fianna Fail under the editorship of Tomas F. O'Sullivan published the Irish Press as a more genuine Irish newspaper. Alas, the paper with the backing of the biggest political party in Ireland left its newspaper lapse. They did and they would let the GAA lapse too. Back in 1893 Irish MPs (and their IRB friends) who had stayed loyal to Parnell launched the Irish Weekly Independent. It was a great GAA organ but that is long gone. Even the parent paper has long been in the hands of one of west Britons best and a few other good provincial papers including our own. I would be much happier if Uachtaran Sean Kelly put more effort into curtailing the excessive drinking culture of many GAa supporters which thankfully he has started . The GAA should also look into the introduction of the pornographic magazines that masquerade as the Irish versions of British tabloid newspapers. Ireland enjoy a marvellous image overseas. The only ones who ever knocked us were the British and when they leave us run our country on our own then and then only should they be welcome to Croke Park. I will be waiting for your reply FatTom.
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Post by SteelFixer on Jan 21, 2005 3:36:36 GMT
I can't agree with you in relation to Croke Park ! While your grasp and knowledge of Irish history is admirable, you are getting too caught up in it, and hence over complicating the issue.
The benefits of opening up Croke Park from a PR and a financial point of view are enormous, and essentially, this is the bottom line ! We should'nt look to keep Croke Park closed just to get at the British. It is'nt right to use the political climate a 100 years ago, as a gauge for making decisions today.
Finally 'Fat Tom' - I know no offence was probably intended, but I find brandishing some as 'English' quite offensive and unfair, and should be withdrawn. The country is full of people who were born while their parents were in exile, (and no more so than in Kerry), while people born to Irish emigrants in various parts of the world are just as proud of their Irish heritage as we are. These are the same people who keep GAA clubs and Irish centres going in places like London, Birmingham, Boston and San Fran. They are the people who get young Irish emigrants fixed up with work and accomodation, and integrated into the social scene !
This should not be forgotten !
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Post by Walter Mitty on Jan 21, 2005 9:19:27 GMT
Rugby is an elite minority sport and no more reflects the Irish nation than table tennis or hockey. try teling that to the thousands of Munster fans who go trapsing across western Europe every year!! Or the 50,000 people who go to every Ireland home game Wasnt the Ireland Scotland game one the most viewed evenst on TV this year??? Didnt think table tennis was such a popular sport!!! AS regards rugby being an elite sport!! Didnt think there was 400,000-500,000 people in Irelands elite!! Furthermore, I never thought so many of my friends and family to be in the elite class of Ireland!!! PS Im off home to read up on my Irish history for the afternoon!!!
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Post by tango on Jan 21, 2005 10:33:43 GMT
Well Walter,
How many rugby teams does Listowel have or for that matter Tralee, Killarney, Killorglin, Caherciveen, Ballyduff.
Compare that to other sports.
Its hardly a sport of the grass roots and the common man.
How many people actually play the game. Just because people watch the game on Tv or go to 4 matches a year does not make it a sport for the masses.
Outside Limerick which is the exception look at the different clubs across the country, their bases, the socio economic class of the players and their educational background.
Hardly representative of the population as whole in the way that GAA and soccer are.
My point was in response to those who were for rugby playing in croke park but not soccer (I am in favour of both being allowed play by the way). I said that it was unfair to discriminate against soccer given that it is more popular amongst GAA supporters and all Irish people than rugby would ever be.
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Post by ashes04 on Jan 21, 2005 13:18:14 GMT
Just to answer Listowel has one soccer club, one rugby club and one GAA club within the town itself. With regards to the opening up of Croker the history aside, all I would be afraid of is Croker becoming like Lansdowne. Ask a neutral observer from outside of this isle who owns Lansdowne and they probably wouldn't know whether it's a soccer or rugby grounds. If they ever do open up then I'm hoping there is going to be very limited access to other sports. I feel it should be opened temporarily for important World or Euro qualifier matches and nothing else until the FAI gets its act together and builds its own grounds. I would deny the right of English supporters access in the unlikely event of us meeting them after the scenes in Lansdowne in '96. A match which I attended myself, travelled 5 hours in a bus from Listowel to get 26 mins of soccer and an hour hour of disrespect, violence and vandalism. It might be politically incorrect but if you left any of them near Croker those *s would see the history of the grounds and attempt to make * of the place. Croker I feel must keep its identity but we can't be seen to being rooted in the past that gives the begrudgers a chance of cheap shots. Limited access is the way forward in my books.
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Post by kerryman on Jan 21, 2005 13:57:00 GMT
Ashes talking sense there. Access only when it is right (at the whim of the GAA).
English rugby fans are harmless enough, and any incidents like Martin Johnson making Mary McCaleese walk off the red carpet mean an automatic 2 year exclusion for soccer AND rugby from the grounds.
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Post by tango on Jan 21, 2005 14:28:42 GMT
Yeah I agree too, very limited access is the way to go. Would not be a fan of English soccer fans either. Whether its Croke Park or Lansdown or the Phoenix park I would not want English fans in Dublin.
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Post by FatTom on Jan 24, 2005 12:50:00 GMT
I agree re the 32 counties and see your point but again why do the GAA use concerts and Amercian football matches to generate revenue. Free tickets in small games yes but what about the 6 nations and major internationals is what they would use it for not every game - sell outs of 80,000 would be hugely beneficial to the GAA. What have pornographic magazines got to do with anything? And the drinking thing is a country problem and most GAA supporters have a bit of craic and a laugh and you'll see that violence and problems associated with drink are way more far reaching than just drink problems it is social and human problems in society.
Finally your point re England and 32 counties is fair enough but again why then American Football, Special Olympics and Garth Brooks?
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Post by Walter Mitty on Jan 24, 2005 18:12:08 GMT
Well Walter, A I believe that Tralee has 2 senior teams plus a full underage set up... Killarney has a senior team.. Castleisland has a full senior team and Im sure it has an underage set up as well Dingle has a senior team and a full underage set up (Was informed that its very successful at the moment) Listowel has a senior team and a couple of underage teams Killorglan has a senior team (and a couple of underage teams I think) Glenbeigh has a senior team........ so its obviously not as popular as soccer is in Kerry from a playing perspective amongst the commen man....the reasons are obvious due to the intense physical nature of the game...... scarring many people away from playing the game (including my small self)....However, this does not mean that soccer is a way more popular than rugby is... C Whats the average attendence at a League of Ireland game??? 1200/1300....compare that to Celtic League/Heineken Cup game....6000 people maybe between Celtic League and Heino..... From this we conclude 2 things.... Soccer is more popular from a playing perspective Rugby is possibly more popular from a spectator perspective
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Post by tango on Jan 25, 2005 8:46:30 GMT
All those towns you mentioned would have many soccer teams and would have far more soccer players.
Virtually every village/ town in Kerry has a soccer club ( I am sure you will think of an exception but you are missing the point)
Given that there are probably 50 or 60 teams in the KDL I think its safe to say that soccer is more popular in Kerry and probably every other county
I think you are the one shooting yourself in the foot
As you admitted at the highest level, there is an elitism but thats my point.
The way the game is structured in this country gives rise to this. In fact I have heard many rugby pundits admit that for Irish rugby to sustain its current progress its got to shed this image.
It would be great if the Irish rugby team was made up of players from the type of schools, that I and most other people went to but its not and thats my point.
I am not saying every single person involved in the sport is that way, just a disproportionate amount.
Also in the end you seem to have yourself in knots and contradicted yourself in the space of 5 word.
Now I better do some work.
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Post by buck02 on Jan 25, 2005 10:28:32 GMT
The sports guy on todayfm put it well on this subject recently - the jist of what he said was this:
Three guys get money to build a house - one fella builds his house but the other two guys just drink the money. Then they want to go live in the first guys house! Should he let them in?
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Post by FatTom on Jan 25, 2005 18:16:56 GMT
Thats not the point - letting the others play there when unused has numerous benefits for the GAA too and they were pretty happy to let the American Footballers and Special Olympics team in.
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Post by Walter Mitty on Jan 26, 2005 9:11:02 GMT
The sports guy on todayfm put it well on this subject recently - the jist of what he said was this: Three guys get money to build a house - one fella builds his house but the other two guys just drink the money. Then they want to go live in the first guys house! Should he let them in? Of course he should if they pay rent....otherwise he d have empty rooms for the whole year
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Post by tango on Jan 26, 2005 10:31:16 GMT
If they pay adequate rent, why not.
A lot of people in this country have got wealthy from letting tenants help pay their mortgage/loans
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GaaBeo
On Probation
S?il Eile
Posts: 14
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Post by GaaBeo on Apr 1, 2005 0:25:13 GMT
right. i know its only a patch of grass with a few seats around it at the end of the day, but it is a massive part of our heritage and our history. if other sports need to use the facility, fine. don't like all the big fuss about making bagloads of money offa it tho - im just not sure we wouldnt be putting a price on our traditions and stuff. tricky oul situation alrite. one thing though - does anybody else find the idea of god save the queen being blared out before and during matches at the home of our national game which was once home to the dump of all the rubble left after the 1916 rising a bit off-putting? just a thought.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2006 0:06:28 GMT
Other replies:
Other Sports in Croker Post by W.Y.G.D.O.T.B on 16 Apr, 2005, 17:15
For or Against!
The motion to let the GAA's Central Council decide on the opening up of Croke Park to other sports has been carried by 227 to 97 vote. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by mikko on 16 Apr, 2005, 17:27
Makes no difference. Central Council will still keep em out. Who wants to see seats, flares, smoke bombs, etc. raining down on players.?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by harps on 17 Apr, 2005, 0:04
will kerry people be happy when god save the queen is played in croker. it is now inevitable. we will be drawn against the english for euro 08 and as southern people have short memories they will forget what happened in 95 and offer handshakes to the brits while they hoodwink their way into our national treasure they will then burn the tricolour in croker, they will wreck croker, will kerry people be happy then? all for for a few extra euro! There is more to life than money. The only true irish men left are in the six counties and cork. This is a black day in the GAA. If God save the queen is played in croker i will have nothing more to to with the GAA. Will it hurt anybody in the south if england play in croke park. For heavens sake my own club couldnt even play finuge in croker!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by person on 17 Apr, 2005, 0:57
I say keep it closed. it should only be used by the gaa for the gaa end of story. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by arsenalbabe on 17 Apr, 2005, 1:28
I am dissa pointed that Rule 42 was defeated, but as I am in agreement with the ideal of "Majority Rule" I guess I havvvvve to agree to "DISAGREE".
I hope I will never have to hear God save the Queen being played there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by mikko on 17 Apr, 2005, 2:51
That's two (2) Kerry people & one Northern person responding to the original question. Just shows how times have changed. Are we all just staying quiet because Kelly played his cards early & couldn't backtrack? Let's hope central council will never entertain those soccer gob*es on our hallowed field.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by Original KYFan on 17 Apr, 2005, 4:30
Welcome to the 21st century where people would rather see cooperation then hostility and resentment.
I think the GAA made a brave step today and the goodwill from the Irish public will go a long way to carrying the association forward. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by smellUlater on 17 Apr, 2005, 19:14
i will sing swing low sweet chariot along with god save the queen anyday of the week in croker!
grow up will ye, it will be showcasing off the one the best stadiums in the world when other sports play there. other teams beside england will be playing there u know. how many time have the net bulged in croke park since the third sunday in september last, why bother cutting the grass after the all ireland final when there wouldn't be any relevant games played there for over 6 months, at least then there would be a nice bit of grass there to make a nice few decent bales of silage.
nearly every other country in the world best stadiums share its sports.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by KevinT on 17 Apr, 2005, 20:48
I believe it is very unfortunate that The GAA were put in this potentially embarrassing situation solely due to the failings of The FIA and The IRFU. However the change only allows for central council to CONSIDER an application to play in Croke Park and only while Lansdowne road is out of commision . It might not happen , but if it does I would feel proud to show off Croke Park on the world stage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by dec on 18 Apr, 2005, 2:11
I'm delighted with the new ruling. Congrats to the GAA for opening up our splendid stadium to other codes.
The profile of the GAA will be increased as a result of this and how bad will it really be WHEN we hear God Save the Queen. Are we still stuck in the old times or something?
Here's to the future and the dynamism of the GAA. A victory for sport and the GAA......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by Karina on 18 Apr, 2005, 9:28
I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. When I heard the result I felt a little disappointed - just felt like we were loosing our identity or something. But sure hopefully it will be only until the new stadium is opened. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by kerryman on 18 Apr, 2005, 9:50
We're lucky that there is a "trial" period while Landsdowne is under revamp.
I'm not sure what to think as I'm for and against opening it for different reasons. Once there's no hooliganism there I'm OK with it.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2006 0:07:23 GMT
Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by austinstacksabu on 18 Apr, 2005, 10:08
Well, central council now have the power to decide, upon request from other sporting organisations, to rent Croke Park if they so wish.
One thing is for certain. As the vote was carried by more than the bare majority, central council will not turn against the wishes of the majority of the GAA. If they receive a request, they will rent it.
This will open happen in 2007 at the earliest. By that time Liam Mulvihill will be into his final 3 months before retirement, Frank Murphy will have been moved out of Cork, (read Sean Kellys speech on Saturday on full time county officials - he is talking about one man), and Nicky Brennan, who will be into his second year in office, is the man who chairs the central council in 2007 and he will oversee that they say yes.
Between now and then the Government will remind the IRFU and the FAI that they are paying the Lions share of the redevelopment fee for Lansdowne Road. They will put enormous pressure on the FAI and the IRFU to accept that Croke Park is there to rent and that it must be rented by them, reminding them all the time that if they move to another stadium, they won't fund the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. Agreement will be reached between all sporting bodies and the Government, ie, the Government will share the cost of renting the stadium, putting floodlights in, pushing through planning permission for the floodlights etc, in return for the IRFU and the FAI renting the stadium. A look at Bertie Aherns comments yesterday will confirm that.
On a personal note, I'm delighted for Sean Kelly. The man has received an enormous amount of abuse over this from within his own offices and now he has proved that his vision was the correct one. I'm also thrilled that we will see rugby played at Croke Park when they need to move from Lansdowne Road. However, the FAI is not a 32 county sporting organisation and does not represent the ethos or values of either the GAA or IRFU. I'm not happy to think that soccer will be played there, but I accept the decision and will respect it and go anyway. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by kingdomkerry on 18 Apr, 2005, 10:35
Whats the problem soccer and rugby will be played in croke park for a couple of years while landsdown road is being rebuilt. Better than sending the irish off to britain. When it is rebuilt that will be it.
There should be one condition. England Northern Ireland or Ulster rugby should not be allowed play there. Although could you imagine if Ireland were drawn against england and the gaa banned the game from taking place in croker when all the other home games were allowed. It would cause some stir! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by falveyb2k on 18 Apr, 2005, 21:15
In a perfect world I'd love to see rugby and soccer played there but there are going to be big problems ahead. Here's a possible example, Ireland are playing Spain at home in a vital world cup qualifier in late August and as the weekend is free of Gaelic games it is scheduled for Croke Park and so the tickets are sold out in record time. However, 2 weeks before the match is due to be played there is a draw between Kerry and Dublin in the All Ireland semi final. This puts the GAA in a hole and as they can't move the soccer game at such short notice the Kerry game is switched to Thurles thus depriving 25,000 fans of an opportunity to watch their national game because of a soccer match in their own stadium! Now you may say it's highly unlikely but it could have happened a few years ago. Ireland played Holland away in 2000(could just as easily been at home) on the same day Kerry played Armagh in a replay in Croke Park(probably the greatest football match ever). Likewise the final replay against Galway fell on the same day as the Portugal game. Ireland also played Holland at home the following year the day before the Kerry vs. Meath semi final. You may say play the soccer on the Saturday and the football on the Sunday but can you get rid of the soccer markings on the pitch in a few hours? Also Croke Park has no floodlights to host night games so soccer is screwed there. Would any club in this county be happy to know their funds are being cut in order to pay for floodlights so that other sports can use them? Would you be happy to see seats being ripped up in Croke Park a la Landsdowne Road in 95? What about the alterations to the stadium needed in order for segregation and policing? What will we say if we encounter the situation seen in Wales earlier this year. After a six nations match rain made it even worse and the pitch was badly cut up for the soccer game days later. Just take a look at Cardiff yesterday. Brian Kerr also complained about the Landsdowne pitch after the China game which also occured there a few days after a rugby game. Remember we have just resowed our pitch and it has to be top class in order for hurling to be played there. I'm not even going to mention how the GAA will be treated if the FAI throws a fit while demanding a cheap price before running off overseas. I just see too many obstacles I'm afraid and I can't see too many rugby or soccer games being played there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by scooter on 19 Apr, 2005, 8:31
these are excellent points falveyb2k. would hate to think that the failings of the the FAI could harm our traditional games especially if the gaa cannot host football at croker when they want due to soccer,as you have pointed out -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by FatTom on 19 Apr, 2005, 9:43
Quote:will kerry people be happy when god save the queen is played in croker. it is now inevitable. we will be drawn against the english for euro 08 and as southern people have short memories they will forget what happened in 95 and offer handshakes to the brits while they hoodwink their way into our national treasure they will then burn the tricolour in croker, they will wreck croker, will kerry people be happy then? all for for a few extra euro! There is more to life than money. The only true irish men left are in the six counties and cork. This is a black day in the GAA. If God save the queen is played in croker i will have nothing more to to with the GAA. Will it hurt anybody in the south if england play in croke park. For heavens sake my own club couldnt even play finuge in croker!!!
Its up to central council to decide. We could get a group wirh England - that doesnt mean we have to open Croker for them. At least it gives us the choice. Cork?? Cork??
Frank Murphy used his rule book and some stupid motion about a club convention because all the big clubs were voting yes.
North have their reasons about soccer and the English.
But its ok to open for American football, International rules, U2, Simple Minds, Garth Brooks and the Special Olympics.
Move on boy. We are helping out our fellow Irish men in a time of need.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2006 0:07:58 GMT
Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by seamus on 19 Apr, 2005, 9:47
Yeah I agree, Letting Garth Brooks in there was a bigger mistake than letting soccer in. Give me God Save the Queen over his rubbish any day!!! It up there with the times when they had Declan Nerney singing on All Ireland Final Day!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by Tango on 19 Apr, 2005, 10:28
While i was happy to see the rule amended it would not bother me one bit if the FAI or IRFU choose to go abroad to play their games. At least the GAA have done what I feel is the right and honourable thing in allowing the opening up of Croke park for a limited period. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by thehighfield on 19 Apr, 2005, 10:30
I would like to make the following points:
The ball is no longer in the GAAs court when it comes to the FAI or IRFU not paying the rent the GAA ask for. The GAA have been seen to have taken the GIANT step and they are getting a lot of kudos for doing so. If the FAI or IRFU now take their games abroad who the [expletive] do you think is going to get the negative publicity? The GAA for asking for an acceptable cut of the gate receipts (remember they are offering room for an extra 30,000 people and associated facilities) or the FAI/IRFU for taking hundreds of millions out of the Irish economy for the sake of an extra few bob in their own pockets. So can we stop getting hysterical for a while about this.
As for floodlighting . . . .I would imagine this to be an absolute non-issue. The IRFU don't need floodlighting while the FAI would have no trouble scheduling all their home matches for the weekend. Whenever the draw is made for a set of qualifiers all the nations in the group send a few delegates to a meeting where they hammer out the schedule for those qualifiers. I don't think there would be too mcuh trouble for the FAI/UEFA to get a few matches (there would only be 5 anyway) played at the weekend and get the others played during daylight midweek during the long summer days kicking off at 5 or 6.
As for the possibility of a replay being forced to play elsewhere due to a soccer match (rugby not an issue here) . . . . thats the nature of the beast. If you make a business decision to rent your premises then you can't cancel that at a weeks notice. Tough luck GAA I guess.
I heard Ben O'Connor and some drama queen in this thread make the point that the ordinary members of the GAA never get the chance to play in Croke Park so it should not be opened to other sports (this seemed to be Ben's main gripe against opening Croke Park). This one really gets me. The 'no' campaign had a very limited (but extremely valid might I add) set of arguments as to why Croke Park should not be opened. However they tried very hard to flesh these out with some of the lamest excuses I have ever heard, I suppose in an effort to not be accused of being a stuck record. Why in name the of Lucifer's belly button fluff would the GAA want to open the gates for Finuge Vs Nobody in a Junior club final. Opening Croke Park does not come for free but you are suggesting that we leave the gate open and any buch of lads with an O'Neills and a spare saturday afternoon could wander in for a kickaround (now that would be class). The economics of Croke Park dictate that this will not happen.
OMG.... they have opened Croke Park for the duration of the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They are going to open all the other grounds in the country next week, its inevitable...... Would this not have to go through congress? There is no way this would get anywhere because even though Croke Park is open it is open temporarily. I doubt that many of those who voted yes would ever consider voting yes to open club grounds.
My 2 or 3 cents worth. My own position on this is that it needed to be done in the national interest. I would never like to see soccer and rugby there fulltime (Can't stand those soccer hooligans) but now the ball is in our court.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by austinstacksabu on 19 Apr, 2005, 11:15
Some good points there Falveyb2k.
Re: floodlights. It's the GAA's intention to get them into Croke Park soon anyway so now they'll have the Governments ear and possibly a few quid too to get planning permission for them.
Re: Segregation. That's the one big problem. UEFA will require it, and temporary structures aren't permitted (fences etc). The same problem doesn't exist for rugby which is why I can see rugby being played there quicker than soccer.
Re: lines on the pitch. The GAA pitch is able to withstand 4 intercounty games (2 x hurling, 2 x football) in the space of 26 hours as is and with the new work, will still be able to stand two / three full games within two days. Regarding the painting of lines, that's easily done and is done on pitches all over the world. You don't get the same divots as you would for rugby with soccer either, so you could play a soccer game on Saturday and a GAA game on the Sunday no problem.
Re: fixtures backlog, as mentioned previously, the group nations in soccer meet and thrash out their fixture lists. Ireland would fix any late summer qualifiers / friendlies for midweek, or away. They would play the winter ones at home, when Croke Park isn't being used. If there is an overlap, the pitch can handle it.
As for rugby, the Irish international season doesn't overlap so no worries there.
Now, here's one for you. Lansdowne Road is due to host the European Rugby Cup final in 2007. Because Lansdowne Road is being renovated, does that mean that the European Cup moves to Croke Park in mid May. If Munster or Leinster or Ulster qualify for a semi final and get home country advantage as per Munster v Wasps last year, does that mean that that games goes to Croke Park too?
As for pressure on other stadia to open up. There will be calls for the Gaelic Grounds to open up too. I hope they say no.
One final thing. There was one strong no argument made. In 2000, the Dublin Chamber of Commerce ate the GAA alive without salt for hosting the Galway v Kerry All Ireland final replay on a Saturday. The Dublin Chamber of Commerce ate the GAA without salt for considering not opening their grounds to host rugby and soccer internationals on a Saturday. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by SteelFixer on 19 Apr, 2005, 11:27
The floodlights wont be a problem ?
Croke park was wired for them initially, and planning will be handy enough to get as they will only be on very occasionly and cannot be opposed on 'constant light pollution' grounds.
As abu pointed out, they have been on the cards with a good while anyway, irrespective of rule 42 ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by seamus on 19 Apr, 2005, 11:55
It is very important to remember the following. Landsdowne Rd has not been put forward for planning permission for redevelopment. Indeed, an architect has not even been hired to draw the plans. There is expected to be at least 250 objections from local residents, businesses etc. Our Taoiseach said on radio on Sunday that he saw difficulties ahead with the planning process in such a built up area. Landsdowne Rd will not be closed until 2007 at the earliest and more likely to be 2008. Listening to some people they expect to see Roy Keane in there in September against France.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by buck02 on 19 Apr, 2005, 12:34
I was against the opening up of Croker but accept the democratic process and what appeared to be a huge shift in the opinions of the ordinary GAA member around this country.
I still have a feeling that Lansdown wont be re-developed as I've stated all along. For example, theres no way that residents at the Havloc Square end will allow for a huge stand to be built alongside their houses, depriving them of light all day long.
We'll see what'll happen - but its re-freshing that us GAA folk arent being called bigots by the same people who want to use our ground this week. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by homerj on 19 Apr, 2005, 13:14
i think it about time it opened...it cant do any harm, alot of trash has been said, from both sides... im not 100% sure but i do think that floodlights have been used already in croker, at the american football tha was played there before...think they were sold off to some crowd in athlone....
alot of people have been on about the union jack being in croke park, well, it already ben there, (at the special olympics) so that argument goes out the window.....
everybody seems to focus on the english, chances are, during that time, we will only paly them once and that is in the rugby 6 nations....
croker is always closed between october and may(bar paddys day), so this would not have any impact on the pitch as these dates are the soccer and rugby season...play offs and june internationals might be a problem but croker aint exactly that busy in late may...
a champions league final would be the scene to let the world see the stadium.....apparanty uefa have already asked about it a few years ago....think of all the millions that would bring to dublin.
as regards finance, especially for big games and finals like champions league and uefa finals and heineken cup finals, the government could pay the gaa say €5 million a game, cause look at the extra revenue that would create around the city i.e. - 70,000 - 84,000 extra people in the city for a few days that would otherwise be in another city in europe.
As regards the fai, they should pay the same as they pay the irfu in rent for lansdowne but extra revenue should go to the gaa, that way, the gaa would make more money for a greater crowd. same applies to the irfu...a capacity crowd of 80,000 should geneate anything up to €2,000,000 for the GAA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by falveyb2k on 19 Apr, 2005, 14:49
What some people are forgetting is that UEFA and FIFA set the dates for the games, not the FAI. So as most friendlies are midweek they will need floodlights and I'm not sure the residents will allow that pass easily. Plus why in the name of God do we need floodlights for GAA matches in Croke Park? It makes no sense at all. Austinstack you're right that the pitch can handle that many games but the markings have to be gone in a few hours and I'm not sure that's possible. I've seen many midweek games in Cardiff where the rugby markings can still be seen on the pitch, never mind a day after.
The FAI negotiate with other countries about where the qualifier games are played on the dates alloted BUT if the countries cannot agree then UEFA/FIFA draw the teams out and you could still have the same problem. Somebody here said tough luck on the GAA if they have to move their own game but should the fans and the players who have put so much effort in during the year be denied the chance to play in their own stadium because of a soccer match against Switzerland for example? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by buck02 on 19 Apr, 2005, 15:31
Also the problem of entering the ground for soccer & rugby matches will be a problem in Croker. It was designed apparently with the view that the majority entering the ground would be done over a two hour duration prior to the start of the main attraction. This would not be the case with a soccer or rugby match when there is no minor game, jubilee team etc. prior to a game. We've all seen how crazy it is leaving the stadium, imagine that many bodies attempting to get in the half hour before a soccer/rugby match. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by austinstacksabu on 19 Apr, 2005, 15:51
The players on the pitch don't notice the markings painted over as much as we do.......as a player you'd always keen an eye on the flags.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: How are you accepting the new ruling? Post by falveyb2k on 19 Apr, 2005, 15:55
That wouldn't be my main concern. It's in around the penalty area where there are going to be an awful lot of lines around the place. It'll be fairly hard for a ref to decide if someone is inside or outside the square etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Other Sports in Croker Post by islandexile on 16 Sept, 2005, 13:36
i think croke park should be made available to other sports while Lansdowne road is being re-developed. once that has been completed however, i think it should resort to a gaelic football and hurling sportsfield.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jan 17, 2006 16:40:36 GMT
Just under 1.2 million a year for competitive games only, with no friendlies to be played there by the IRFU or the FAI for the moment it seems!
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 17, 2006 16:49:47 GMT
a nice few bob for 5 or 6 games per year,i suppose it won't be long till donal og and dessie will be looking for a biteen of it for the lads efforts.interesting times ahead for that particular can worms.
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